chrmn1:
That term 'buy' suggest there was some sort of agreement. People usually offered themselves to be slaves to escape the pangs of famine.

He will say it wasnt Buy! That is was forcefully purchase!

4everGod:


Stop being Mischievous pls

So if in Nigeria the Law says when a man kills another man he should jailed for life does that mean the Nigerian law sanctions murder or manslaughter?

You love deceipt.

Did u even read the verses... The latter part says if a master beats his slave and the slave survives for a day or two, the master won't be punished.
Do u need glasses or is this selective blindness

4everGod:



(Philemon 1:10-21)

10. I appeal to you for my child Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my imprisonment,
11. who formerly was useless to you, but now is useful both to you and to me.
12. I have sent him back to you in person, that is, sending my very heart,
13. whom I wished to keep with me, so that on your behalf he might minister to me in my imprisonment for the gospel;
14. but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
15. For perhaps he was for this reason separated from you for a while, that you would have him back forever,
16. no longer as a slave, but more than a slave, a beloved brother, especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord.
17. If then you regard me a partner, accept him as you would me.
18. But if he has wronged you in any way or owes you anything, charge that to my account;
19. I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand, I will repay it (not to mention to you that you owe to me even your own self as well).
20. Yes, brother, let me benefit from you in the Lord; refresh my heart in Christ.
21. Having confidence in your obedience, I write to you, since I know that you will do even more than what I say

oh God did that verses you quoted condemn it? Yes or no? Don't twist it!!!!

chrmn1:
That term 'buy' suggest there was some sort of agreement. People usually offered themselves to be slaves to escape the pangs of famine.

Listen, the agreement was not between slaves and masters.. It was between owners and intending buyers. When Joseph was sold to the Ishmaelites, was the agreement between Joseph and the Ishmaelites or between the Ishmaelites and the brothers??

4everGod:
(Philemon 1:10-21) 10. I appeal to you for my child Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my imprisonment,

Yes, Paul wanted Onesimus to be freed by his master who was a Christian, but it was a personal plea for a friend, not a divine command. How does this say that landlords whose tenants have failed to pay their rent mustn't take their neighbours' children as slaves in lieu of payment?

4everGod:


He will say it wasnt Buy! That is was forcefully purchase!

Nonsense... When the Israelites bought slaves from foreigners, was the agreement between the slaves and Israelites or between the sellers I.e. the foreigners and the Israelites?? Simple contract, u no understand

jcross19:
oh God did that verses you quoted condemn it? Yes or no? Don't twist it!!!!

Are you sure you are a Pastor? if you were you would see Pauls appeal to the reason of Philemon showing Him how Love in Christ sets us free both physically and spiritually and he should now show Love by setting His slave free even as He (PAUL) now sees him as a free man.

Are you sure you know the word?

foladara777:

Nonsense... When the Israelites bought slaves from foreigners, was the agreement between the slaves and Israelites or between the sellers I.e. the foreigners and the Israelites?? Simple contract, u no understand

Slaves were seen as spoils of war and as then Nations stood against Israel but even with the foreign slaves the same laws protected them which gave even the foreigners rights in the land of israel.

I asked you if you knew that your forefathers also had slaves of their own but you dodged that question. Were your forefathers Christians? The History of the Yoruba race where they using the Bible? Yet they were slave herders and had slaves at their beck and call to do with as they please true or false?

Seun:
I feel sad for the apologists who are desperately trying to defend the indefensible. Being forced to defend an evil practice must be awful.


If Harry Potter fans started killing people in real life because Harry Potter did it, we would all be upset. People used the bible to justify slavery.

4EverGod, you said that you don't support slavery by ISIS or Nigerians because the era in which slavery is morally acceptable has passed. When did this era pass? There is no condemnation of slavery in the New Testament either, so why shouldn't you enslave your debtors' kids, etc?

Chairman, all black people in the world are slaves

4everGod:


Are you sure you are a Pastor? if you were you would see Pauls appeal to the reason of Philemon showing Him how Love in Christ sets us free both physically and spiritually and he should now show Love by setting His slave free even as He (PAUL) now sees him as a free man.

Are you sure you know the word?

Did Paul condemn slavery?? No, so what's your point

Seun:

Yes, Paul wanted Onesimus to be freed by his master who was a Christian, but it was a personal plea for a friend, not a divine command. How does this say that landlords whose tenants have failed to pay their rent mustn't take their neighbours' children as slaves in lieu of payment?

Whose message was Paul Preaching? His own or Christs?

The life of Paul as Saul and now as Paul who caused the change and changed his language and message? How did a man filled with so much hate suddenly get filled with so much love? Who carried out that change?

The words that Paul spoke to Philemon were they His words? Are those same words not a match with the message of love found all over the the scriptures?

Please see beyond your nose.

4everGod:
Slaves were seen as spoils of war

ISIS sees the Christian women they capture as spoils of war. Boko Haram saw the Chibok girls as spoils of war. Why is it now suddenly wrong?

I asked you if you knew that your forefathers also had slaves of their own but you dodged that question. Were your forefathers Christians? The History of the Yoruba race where they using the Bible? Yet they were slave herders and had slaves at their beck and call to do with as they please true or false?

Yes, but nobody is defending them. Nobody is saying that it was ok for our forefathers to enslave each other. We admit that they were wrong.

jcross19:
oh God did that verses you quoted condemn it? Yes or no? Don't twist it!!!!

When someone demands that a legally bought slave should be free even as he now sees him as a free man what does that depict to you? Support?

foladara777:

Stop lying?? People didn't go into slavery mainly because of famine... There were a lot of wars at that time and the people captured were sold as slaves. So when God says Israelites could purchase slaves from foreigners, those slaves were victims of those wars
And the new covenant didn't forbid slavery either... Two chances to forbid slavery and the bible failed on both counts

Okay me thinks it was not really that way. It was indeed a time of war when nations would come up against one another and then just like it is with every war, if you don't defend tourself or if you don't strike the opposition you'd be struck. Yes some of the opposition were killed whilst others were disarmed retained as slaves (a lesser punishment than the former). In this situation, the slaves were supposed to serve as such because it was basically a time of conquest among nations. Remember the story of the people that pretended to Joshua to make them slaves that they came from a far country? Indeed there was no 'agreement' in such cases however, it was a war situation so it was a lesser punishment than having them die.

4everGod:


Slaves were seen as spoils of war and as then Nations stood against Israel but even with the foreign slaves the same laws protected them which gave even the foreigners rights in the land of israel.

I asked you if you knew that your forefathers also had slaves of their own but you dodged that question. Were your forefathers Christians? The History of the Yoruba race where they using the Bible? Yet they were slave herders and had slaves at their beck and call to do with as they please true or false?

My forefathers harbored slaves and I can say boldly that it was a despicable act but you keep defending despicable acts and omissions of your God... And u have not answered me whether allowing slaves to be beaten to death- if they survive for two days- is a good thing??

4everGod:


Are you sure you are a Pastor? if you were you would see Pauls appeal to the reason of Philemon showing Him how Love in Christ sets us free both physically and spiritually and he should now show Love by setting His slave free even as He (PAUL) now sees him as a free man.

Are you sure you know the word?

please simple english! The verses only show act of appealing that's all. Please tell me the difference between appealing and condemnation because in those verses all am seeing there is that paul is appealing to philemon to liberate onemous.

Seun:

ISIS sees the Christian women they capture as spoils of war. Boko Haram saw the Chibok girls as spoils of war. Why is it now suddenly wrong?


Yes, but nobody is defending them. Nobody is saying that it was ok for our forefathers to enslave each other. We admit that they were wrong.

And are we saying it is right? You sit there and say God did this and did that but your very forefathers was it God who also pushed them to do what they did when they were deaf and blind to God? Does God now go against free will after Christ?

Christians by virtue of the spirit of God in us preach and encourage love. Were we not the same people who stood for the abolishing of slave trade? Were we not the one who stood against abortions? What really is the problem?

Is there any Christian who would say slavery is right? i am no longer under the Law but under grace which has revealed the love of Christ to me that even as Christ laid down his life for his enemies i ought to do same. So now the law of love is written in my heart and no longer a burden of written laws that i cannot keep because i was unable to.

The work is now complete and i am to walk in it. What is it that you fail to understand about all of this?

foladara777:

Stop lying?? People didn't go into slavery mainly because of famine... There were a lot of wars at that time and the people captured were sold as slaves. So when God says Israelites could purchase slaves from foreigners, those slaves were victims of those wars
And the new covenant didn't forbid slavery either... Two chances to forbid slavery and the bible failed on both counts

Regarding condemning of slavery in the NT, see 1 Timothy 1:9-10 as follows: "We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers–and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine.". Many thanks

chrmn1:
Okay me thinks it was not really that way. It was indeed a time of war when nations would come up against one another and then just like it is with every war, if you don't defend tourself or if you don't strike the opposition you'd be struck. Yes some of the opposition were killed whilst others were disarmed retained as slaves (a lesser punishment than the former). In this situation, the slaves were supposed to serve as such because it was basically a time of conquest among nations. Remember the story of the people that pretended to Joshua to make them slaves that they came from a far country? Indeed there was no 'agreement' in such cases however, it was a war situation so it was a lesser punishment than having them die.

So how does your supposed explanation make slavery right or fair?? U are doing a very bad job of defending God on this account... But maybe it's not you, maybe the acts and omission of God have put you in an impossible position...
The point is Israelites enslaved people against their will... How is that fair??

foladara777:

My forefathers harbored slaves and I can say boldly that it was a despicable act but you keep defending despicable acts and omissions of your God... And u have not answered me whether allowing slaves to be beaten to death- if they survive for two days- is a good thing??

When someone demands that a legally bought slave should be free even as he now sees him as a free man what does that depict to you? Support?

I deliberately emboldened a part of that text. I believe you can read between the lines especially after first claiming to be a Pastor

foladara777:

My forefathers harbored slaves and I can say boldly that it was a despicable act but you keep defending despicable acts and omissions of your God... And u have not answered me whether allowing slaves to be beaten to death- if they survive for two days- is a good thing??

Can you show me a record of slaves you knew back then who were beaten and left for dead?

4everGod:

When someone demands that a legally bought slave should be free even as he now sees him as a free man what does that depict to you? Support?

It was not a demand; it was a plea. He personally loved Onesimus and as such wished for him to be freed, so he sent a passionate appeal to his master. Nobody wants their close friends and family members to be enslaved. Not even slave owners. So Paul should get no credit for this.

foladara777:

So how does your supposed explanation make slavery right or fair?? U are doing a very bad job of defending God on this account... But maybe it's not you, maybe the acts and omission of God have put you in an impossible position...
The point is Israelites enslaved people against their will... How is that fair??

If they had not they would have lost their lives and their people would have been taken captive. It was a war situation and trust me, they were actually taken as slaves by the Medo Persians as well as the Babylonians

I feel very sorry for most Christians who were indoctrinated and forced to accept this terrible doctrine without being told what it contains. Now they try to make sense of their worldview by making excuses for the text. It was written at a brutal time by less than moral people with the goal of controlling the masses, when you try to make it fit into today's world you have to twist the words pretty hard to make them jive.

In my experience, the more a professed Christian considers the Bible to be metaphorical, the more he or she displays the qualities of a good person whose actions are compatible with modern civilization.

As I’ve said to liberal Christians in the past, why not just dump the last bit of baggage you’re carrying and call yourself a humanist already? 99% of Christians from ages past would consider liberal Christians to be damned heretics. What does that say about your “interpretation?” What are your actual reasons for clinging to the last limp vestiges of a morally-obsolete bronze age superstition? Certainly, your reasons have nothing to do with the text of the Bible itself

chrmn1:
Regarding condemning of slavery in the NT, see 1 Timothy 1:9-10 as follows: "We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers–and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine.". Many thanks

So where is slavery forbidden in all of this. A slave ran to Paul, that was a great opportunity to forbid slavery but he didn't. Jesus had the time to forbid slavery and he didn't. But he had the time to forbid swearing and divorce

foladara777:

So how does your supposed explanation make slavery right or fair?? U are doing a very bad job of defending God on this account... But maybe it's not you, maybe the acts and omission of God have put you in an impossible position...
The point is Israelites enslaved people against their will... How is that fair??

If preventive laws were given to protect the slaves does that mean that such acts like beating and blinding an eye or knocking out a tooth or beating and leaving for dead actually occurred?

If you have any record of any that occurred kindly show me.

chrmn1:
If they had not they would have lost their lives and their people would have been taken captive. It was a war situation and trust me, they were actually taken as slaves by the Medo Persians as well as the Babylonians

Does this still justify slavery... U need to do better than this

Seun:

It was not a demand; it was a plea. He personally loved Onesimus and as such wished for him to be freed, so he sent a passionate appeal to his master. Nobody wants their close friends and family members to be enslaved. Not even slave owners. So Paul should get no credit for this.

You miss the entire message in Philemon 1.

Philemon was also a believer and a convert of Paul. Paul placed a demand and reminded him that even He (Philemon) owed him his life. I suggest you read it again.

chrmn1: Would it have been morally acceptable for the Americans to take Iraqis as slaves after defeating their leader? If not, why not?

@hopefulLandlord: hope they listen to you.

Seun:
chrmn1: Would it have been morally acceptable for the Americans to take Iraqis as slaves after defeating their leader? If not, why not?

@hopefulLandlord: hope they listen to you.

What you should be asking is why even in war situations these days there is a law protecting POWs. In those days they were turned to slaves but also protected by laws so how come we have same today?

4everGod:


If preventive laws were given to protect the slaves does that mean that such acts like beating and blinding an eye or knocking out a tooth or beating and leaving for dead actually occurred?

If you have any record of any that occurred kindly show me.

Wait! There was a law allowing destruction of a slave's eye but it never happened?? Are u fricking kidding me?? No body beat his slaves for hundreds of years even though they were allowed too?? I know u can spin anything to defend your God but this is fifty shades of ridiculous. Damn!

KingEbukasBlog:

How many times are we going to discuss this ? Are you guys this desperate ?

Anyway , read the rebuttal here : https://www.nairaland.com/3210816/bible-slavery-answering-ignorant-atheists

That whole piece reads like the typical apologist drivel that performs amazing verbal acrobatics, all to give something unambiguously evil the veneer of being contextually reasonable.

that we got rid of slavery shows our morals didn't come from any god, almost all gods didn't condemn slavery but we as humans made the decision that slavery doesn't have a place in modern life