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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion (54014 Views)
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Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by DoctorAlien(m): 10:28pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
Vanceastro: The Cosmological Argument precludes a causeless universe. As such, its Cause must exist. And science has proven that the universe began. This argument from time is my own invention, anyway. I just brought it up here to be criticized. |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by jimmyjenseng(m): 10:29pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Read through the lines carefully bro. I didn't say Aquinas proposed the existence of a first cause. His five proofs, of which the cosmological argument is one, are what Christian apologists uses as defence for the existence of God.
Lolz. Saying God is the first cause is ludicruos. Is there a verifible fact for this? Please, don't quote any passage from your storybook. Just give proof that God is the first cause.
Bro, I ain't got no issues with the word God. 1 Like |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by dalaman: 10:31pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
felixomor: No. When they say something is literal it means exactly. I said when they say something isn't literal what does it mean? |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:31pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
Vanceastro: Na wa oo . There are ways to look at this and they mean the same 1 . Time began with the universe's cause - God is timeless without the universe and in time with the universe i.e God became temporal at the moment He created the universe. 2. Time was non existent or if you like to address it in a more human perspective God exists in infinite time 1 Like |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by Nobody: 10:34pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
DoctorAlien:Science did not prove that the universe began to exist. It also proved that the universe began to expand from certain point. So your arguments are null and void. Read a Physics textbook, not articles. |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by felixomor: 10:36pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
dalaman: I already explained what literal means above. So u r settling for "metaphorical" or at best "non literal" ie: Sight is not compulsory for evidence. Right? I 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by randomperson: 10:36pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
Atheism is not just the belief that there's no god... It's also the rejection of the belief that there's god, both the dictionary meanings and the strictly philosophical definitions reveal this... And they don't mean the same thing.... Believing that God does not exist is stating categorically that God does not exist, but rejection of a belief simply states that until there is ample proof or evidence of the existence of God, u are not going to believe... For example, if I say, " I believe Ronaldo is better than Messi"... Is different from saying "I don't believe Messi is better than Ronaldo".... The first statement is a claim in itself while the second is a stance of indecision or inconclusiveness until you are persuaded otherwise... |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by DoctorAlien(m): 10:38pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
Vanceastro: The amount of usable energy in the universe is decreasing. A finite amount of energy couldn't have brought the universe through an eternity of time. Therefore the universe is not eternal. |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:39pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
jimmyjenseng: What I have there is the Cosmological Argument for the Existence of God I'm not sure why you brought Thomas Aquinas to the argument ![]() Lolz. Saying God is the first cause is ludicruos. Is there a verifible fact for this? Please, don't quote any passage from your storybook. Just give proof that God is the first cause. Stop throwing words upandan and try to comprehend bro ![]() God is the title (appellation ) of the First cause . That means we can say First Cause or God . Bro, I ain't got no issues with the word God. Obviously you do ![]() |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by dalaman: 10:39pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
felixomor: Where did I mention sight anywhere? |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by Nobody: 10:41pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:îñfinite time? Like WTF! You do realise that the emboldened words imply an already existing TIME dimension. Dude get your sh.it together. |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by felixomor: 10:41pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
randomperson: Stop twisting definitions to fit your life. Using ur example, ur 2nd statement is also a claim on its own. "I dont believe Messi is better than Ronaldo" Also means "Ronaldo is not inferior to Messi" Its a claim too. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:43pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
Vanceastro: That's not true . Three physicists Borde, Guth, and Vilenkin proved that the universe had a finite past with the borde-guth-vilenkin theorem . This theory proves that spacetime cannot be extended to an infinite past but must reach a boundary at some time in finite past . |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by Nobody: 10:44pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
DoctorAlien:Where is the energy reducing to. You do realise the total energy of the Universe can be taken as zero as measurement of Energy is relative. |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by felixomor: 10:44pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
dalaman: I claim u meant sight and u debunked it. Right? Let me rephrase so that u come out clear. Sight is not a must to verify existence, Yes/No? 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by DoctorAlien(m): 10:45pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
Vanceastro: Don't tell me you have not heard about the second law of thermodynamics. |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by randomperson: 10:46pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
felixomor:Logic is obviously not your strong suit... I don't think anything is... Are u equating "Ronaldo is not inferior to Messi" to "I don't believe Ronaldo is inferior to Messi"... Are they exactly the same statement?? |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:46pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
Vanceastro: What the ... smh Calm down and comprehend . You'll get it . ![]() |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by Nobody: 10:50pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:That does not mean the Universe began to exist at that boundary. Unless you believe that anything that is SPACELESS and TIMELESS does not exist, then in that case GOD DOES NOT EXIST. |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:51pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
DoctorAlien: Excellently put . ![]() |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by Nobody: 10:52pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
DoctorAlien:Yea right, because Entropy is equal to energy. 8-) |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by felixomor: 10:52pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
randomperson: We are all talking within the context of your belief. Everybody's claim is is his belief. Theist: I believe there is God Atheist: I believe there is no God U only putting "i believe"/ "i dont believe" before sentence in this discussion is tautology. 3 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:53pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
Vanceastro: That's it na God is spaceless timeless beginless immaterial uncaused and all that . God transcends the universe . 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by Nobody: 10:56pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:Dude, spacetime collapses at a certain point in the "past" doesn't mean the universe began to exist at that point. How you dey reason sef? |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by felixomor: 10:58pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
Vanceastro: Sorry bro. It means Go and search for and read "The origin of time" 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by randomperson: 10:59pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
felixomor:It's not tautology and I already showed u... You are only repeating arguments because you don't know where to go from there... I believe Messi is better than Ronaldo is different from I don't believe Ronaldo is better than Messi.... So when a theist says I believe there is god, I simply say I DON'T BELIEVE there is god... If u or any of your friends can equate both these statements to mean the same thing, logically, then no problem 1 Like |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by DoctorAlien(m): 11:00pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
Vanceastro:Entropy is not energy. |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by Nobody: 11:00pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
felixomor:The origin of time by whom. Is that book used in universities? |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by Nobody: 11:01pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
DoctorAlien:Sarcasm..duh |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by DoctorAlien(m): 11:04pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
Vanceastro: Thank you for criticizing my argument from time. Let me go back to the drawing board. ![]() |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by taurus25(m): 11:04pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: The description of what happens at quantum level is what is important here. At quantum level, well defined classical physical laws most definitely do not hold. Causal order is reversibly interchangeable at atomic scales because of 'superpositioning', this makes it possible for effects to essentially be their cause and vice versa. This goes against every understanding of the macro world, and good understanding of physics should tell you that the universe was operating at a quantum state over 15 billion years ago. With this only a complete merging of both quantum and macro world can offer a plausible explanation of how the universe became the way it is now. There are no conjectures here . As far as something has a beginning it obviously implies that it was caused . It is unknown whether the universe itself began or not. It's only known that this current state of the universe took shape some 14 billion years ago |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by KingEbukasBlog(m): 11:04pm On Jan 03, 2017 |
Vanceastro: Physicist Alexander Vilenkin said It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. With the proof now in place, cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. There is no escape, they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning . Even Stephen Hawking admitted that the laws of science seemed to predict the universe had a beginning, they also seemed to predict that they could not determine how the universe would have begun. Read Stephen Hawking article on the beginning of time here : http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html |
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