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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion (54045 Views)
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Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by jimmyjenseng(m): 12:11am On Jan 04, 2017 |
felixomor: It's quite obvious you know nothing about atheism. Just so conspicuous bro. Honestly, your obviating questions to veering into another subject just to prove a point only put you in a conundrum. |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by felixomor: 12:16am On Jan 04, 2017 |
jimmyjenseng: To show how blind u are, u dont even know I was using his own analogy to explain. Please if u dont have anything aside ad hominem, stay away. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:20am On Jan 04, 2017 |
jimmyjenseng: Are you an atheist ? 1 Like |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by felixomor: 12:28am On Jan 04, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Noted! 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by jimmyjenseng(m): 12:41am On Jan 04, 2017 |
felixomor: I see you have problem with conjunction and its functions. The definition for atheism is well written on that post. I made no mistake about your obviating questions. I've been observing your posts for some time now and the way you try to play smart only exposes the flaws in what you defend. Smh.... |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by felixomor: 12:44am On Jan 04, 2017 |
jimmyjenseng: Please keep quiet and just stay away from my mention. |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by randomperson: 12:44am On Jan 04, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:It doesn't matter how many times u say it... It won't change the fact that atheism is either a belief or a rejection of a belief... Both the dictionary and philosophers attest to this fact... U don't like it but it's still the fact 1 Like |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by felixomor: 12:45am On Jan 04, 2017 |
randomperson: Ur conversion of "or" to "and" is not hiding still. 1 Like |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:53am On Jan 04, 2017 |
Is it too early to draw the obvious conclusion that atheism is grossly illogical 5 pages now and even atheists don't know the meaning of atheism ![]() 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by felixomor: 12:58am On Jan 04, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Even in the absence of religious argument. Somebody is even subtly changing "OR" (used for equivalent synonymous items) in a definition to "AND" just in order to create an escape route. Hmmmmm. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by DoctorAlien(m): 1:07am On Jan 04, 2017 |
THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF AN INFINITE REGRESS IN TIME PRECLUDES AN ETERNAL UNIVERSE If we are to assume that the universe never began to exist: 1. The universe has always been. 2. Therefore it is infinitely old. 3. Therefore an infinite amount of time has elapsed before today. 4. But day infinity of the universe couldn't have been reached(since any day you choose to call day infinity has an infinite number of days stretching behind it, and we have to pass those days before we get to day infinity). 5. The day after day infinity couldn't have been reached either. Neither could the day after that. 6. Therefore today couldn't have been reached. 7. But today has been reached. 8. Therefore the process of reaching it was not infinite. 9. Therefore the universe began to exist. Cc: Desepiero, Vanceastro |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by Nobody: 1:12am On Jan 04, 2017 |
DoctorAlien:ETERNAL still implies a time dimension. A universe with no spacetime is not eternal, but TIMELESS |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by DoctorAlien(m): 1:16am On Jan 04, 2017 |
Vanceastro:What is time? Was there a universe without space? Where was it? Meanwhile, eternal means having no beginning and no end. Read my modified post though. 1 Like |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by Nobody: 1:20am On Jan 04, 2017 |
DoctorAlien:lol so you can't conceive of a spaceless, timeless universe, but you appreciate a spaceless, timeless creator? You see anything that applies to this Universe applies to God. 1 Like |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by KingEbukasBlog(m): 1:23am On Jan 04, 2017 |
DoctorAlien: Stephen Hawkings and so many cosmologists have admitted that the universe began to exist The atheists are the ones who are redefining "nothing" and claiming the univese created itself (logical absurdity) . There are so many new inventions like the world ensemble , the ekpyrotic universe all have been debunked . 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by KingEbukasBlog(m): 1:23am On Jan 04, 2017 |
Vanceastro: The presence of space and time makes the universe what it is . ![]() |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by DoctorAlien(m): 1:24am On Jan 04, 2017 |
Vanceastro: I have just proven to you that the universe was caused i.e. it began to exist. The Cause of this universe must necessarily exist outside this universe, because the cause cannot be contained in its effect. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by Nobody: 1:26am On Jan 04, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:and spacetime is just a part of thr universe not all of it. So showing me a point in the past where spacetime collapses doesn't mean the universe began to exist at that point. |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by DoctorAlien(m): 1:27am On Jan 04, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: The cosmological argument, properly presented, destroys every nonsense about an eternal universe. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by randomperson: 1:28am On Jan 04, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog:Really, with my limited knowledge of logic and philosophy, I can refute the first two arguments off the top of my head.. 1. The cosmological arguments basically says that everything has a cause, the universe was caused by god, and god is the uncaused cause. And there are modified versions that include a god who doesn't have beginning in time and a god that's necessary. Well, these premises are not consistent with only theism. They will also support multiple creators or perhaps a group of super intelligent aliens. Or a single story intelligent alien. The premises only lead to the conclusion that the earth was created and does nothing to show that the creator is god. Again, the premises are in themselves faulty... So, while the argument is valid, it is not sound because the premises are unreliable. For example, if I say "A- All boys are humans; B- All humans are stupid. Conclusion- All boys are stupid." The argument is valid but unsound because the second premise is faulty... So when, u draw your conclusions from unproven premises like: God is necessary or god doesn't have a beginning in time, you are using faulty premises as the basis of your argument. As regards the moral argument, will just ask this: "Is killing wrong because God condemned it or did god condemn it because it is wrong." If killing is wrong because God condemns it, then god acts without reason. If God condemns it because it is wrong then there is a higher reason than god By the way, none of those arguments give a logical reason why there MUST be a god... not to talk of a god in the mold of the one believed by Christians 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by randomperson: 1:30am On Jan 04, 2017 |
felixomor:It seems u don't have access to a dictionary... noun (plural atheisms) (narrowly) Belief that no deities exist (sometimes including rejection of other religious beliefs). (broadly) Rejection of belief that any deities exist (with or without a belief that no deities exist). (very broadly) Absence of belief that any deities exist (including absence of the concept of deities). (loosely) Absence of belief in a particular deity, pantheon, or religious doctrine (notwithstanding belief in other deities). 1 Like |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by Nobody: 1:32am On Jan 04, 2017 |
DoctorAlien:Again cause and effect requires time which doesn't exist before the universe. So again the universe did not begin to exist. Also ya 9-point argument fails because you assume the Universe exists within a TIME DIMENSION. Actually it's the other way round. SPACE&TIME are dimensions that exist within this universe. Shikena. 1 Like |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by DoctorAlien(m): 1:40am On Jan 04, 2017 |
Vanceastro:What is time? Also ya 9-point argumeny fails because you assume the Universe exists within a TIME DIMENSION. Actually it's the other way round. SPACE&TIME are dimensions are exist within this universe. Shikena. Nope. I never said the universe exists within time. That is a strawman you constructed. Refute my argument. |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by dalaman: 1:43am On Jan 04, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Allen Guth was asked in the debate between William Craig and Roy Carol if the universe had a begining and he clearly said he doesn't know. The universe might be eternal but no know knows. Wilam Craig as usual takes part of a study quote mines it, gives it his own meaning and claims that is what the author meant. The 2003 Borde-Guth-Vilenkin paper (pdf) shows that “almost all” inflationary models of the universe (as opposed to Dr. Craig’s “any universe”) will reach a boundary in the past – meaning our universe probably doesn’t exist infinitely into the past. Dr. Craig seems to interpret this information as “the universe definitely began to exist” although that is a bit presumptuous. For example, this theorem doesn’t rule out Stephen Hawking’s no-boundary proposal which states that time may be finite without any real boundary (just like a sphere is finite in surface area while it has no “beginning”). Furthermore, the author of the Arizona Atheist blog asked Vilenkin if his theorem with Guth and Borde proves that the universe had a beginning, and Vilenkin responded: f someone asks me whether or not the theorem I proved with Borde and Guth implies that the universe had a beginning, I would say that the short answer is “yes”. If you are willing to get into subtleties, then the answer is “No, but…” So, there are ways to get around having a beginning, but then you are forced to have something nearly as special as a beginning. However, Craig’s main problem is that a beginning of the universe can still be described in scientific terms. Nothing in the Borde-Guth-Vilenkin paper suggests a beginning from “absolute nothingness” (as Craig often claims). In fact, the opposite is true. The authors write, What can lie beyond the boundary? Several possibilities have been discussed, one being that the boundary of the inflating region corresponds to the beginning of the Universe in a quantum nucleation event. This “quantum nucleation event” refers to a paper Vilenkin wrote in 1982 (pdf) which discusses the universe coming into being through quantum mechanics. Interestingly, many theists use Vilenkin’s paper as evidence that the universe came from “literally nothing” but Craig has already criticized this work. Oddly, I’ve been unable to find any article of Craig’s (scholarly or otherwise) which actually quotes from the 2003 Borde-Guth-Vilenkin paper. Instead he almost exclusively quotes a paragraph from Vilenkin’s 2006 book Many Worlds in One (amazon) which discusses the 2003 paper: It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. With the proof now in place, cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. There is no escape, they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning (pg. 176). Now that’s a pretty straight forward quote which at least seems to favor Craig’s argument, but on the very same page Vilenkin writes, "Theologians have often welcomed any evidence for the beginning of the universe, regarding it as evidence for the existence of God … So what do we make of a proof that the beginning is unavoidable? Is it a proof of the existence of God? This view would be far too simplistic. Anyone who attempts to understand the origin of the universe should be prepared to address its logical paradoxes. In this regard, the theorem that I proved with my colleagues does not give much of an advantage to the theologian over the scientist. Vilenkin then concludes this statement by suggesting that cosmic origins could be described in “purely scientific terms” – a task which he attempts in the chapter which follows." https://www.google.com.ng/amp/s/debunkingwlc./2010/07/14/borde-guth-vilenkin/amp/ |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by Nobody: 1:44am On Jan 04, 2017 |
DoctorAlien:you said something about the universe not being infinite OLD IN TIME. I am asking in what time dimension is that comparison taking place, in the same time dimension that collapses some 14 billions years ago? Smh |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by KingEbukasBlog(m): 1:48am On Jan 04, 2017 |
dalaman: This article is pointless since Vilenkin admitted that their research indicates that the universe had a beginning since it had a finite past. Its simple logic , if something has a finite past then it has a beginning . |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by dalaman: 1:48am On Jan 04, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Athiest have debunked these arguments. I on my own have debunked the moral argument. You claimed you'll get back to it and ran away from it since last year. |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by DoctorAlien(m): 1:49am On Jan 04, 2017 |
Vanceastro: Where did the time collapse? You have not answered my question: what is time? And if I may add: how is it necessary to the existence of cause and effect? |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by dalaman: 1:54am On Jan 04, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: You aren't listening to what they are saying. It's not simple logic. Their theorm doesn’t rule out Stephen Hawking’s no-boundary proposal which states that time may be finite without any real boundary (just like a sphere is finite in surface area while it has no “beginning”). |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by KingEbukasBlog(m): 1:55am On Jan 04, 2017 |
randomperson: You just admitted the existence of God(s) randomperson: You didn't show why the premise is faulty . randomperson: This is just the Euthyphro dilemma in disguise and it is a false dilemma because God's own nature or character defines with is good . |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by KingEbukasBlog(m): 1:59am On Jan 04, 2017 |
dalaman: Stephen Hawking admitted he was wrong with his no-boundary proposal here : http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html |
Re: Conclusion : Atheism Is So Illogical , The Atheist Delusion by dalaman: 1:59am On Jan 04, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Is the sharia law God? It displays God's character according to muslims. Is it good? |
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