openmine:
HEBREWS 7:11 - 20

11 The people were given the law under the system of priests from the tribe of Levi. But no one could be made spiritually perfect through that system of priests. So there was a need for another priest to come. I mean a priest like Melchizedek, not Aaron.

12 And when a different kind of PRIEST comes, THEN THE LAW MUST BE CHANGED TOO

13-14 We are talking about our Lord Christ, who belonged to a different tribe. No one from that tribe ever served as a priest at the altar. It is clear that Christ came from the tribe of Judah. And Moses said nothing about priests belonging to that tribe.


15 And these things become even clearer when we see that another priest has come who is like Melchizedek.

16 He was made a priest, but not because he met the requirement of being born into the right family. He became a priest by the power of a life that will never end.

17 This is what the Scriptures say about him: “You are a priest forever—the kind of priest Melchizedek was.”

18 The old rule is now ended because it was weak and worthless. 19 The Law of Moses could not make anything perfect. But now a better hope has been given to us. And with that hope we can come near to God.

20 Also, it is important that God made a promise with an oath when he made Jesus high priest. When those other men became priests, there was no oath.

If you're quoting. A translation kindly cite what translation pls. Also while at it . Can you have a look at scripture below.

Exodus 20:12 (KJV Strong's)
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.


I will like you also to answer . Is it right for Christians to honor parents

petra1:


If you're quoting. A translation kindly cite what translation pls. Also while at it . Can you have a look at scripture below.

Exodus 20:12 (KJV Strong's)
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.


I will like you also to answer . Is it right for Christians to honor parents

My apologies
ERV (EASY TO READ) VERSION
If you are in need of more scriptures or more translations,i will provide it for you!

openmine:


My apologies
ERV (EASY TO READ) VERSION
If you are in need of more scriptures or more translations,i will provide it for you!

Thanks . And to my last question . . . .waiting

petra1:


Thanks . And to my last question . . . .waiting

I asked You tonnes of questions and you haven't answered and you want me to answer urs...?
Can i also add to the series of questions that have yet been unanswered by you...
Do U need the law of moses to make you give,honour Ur parents,give to people or love one another?

openmine:


I asked You tonnes of questions and you haven't answered and you want me to answer urs...?

I'm downloading the translation.if we can agreee on a translation fine by me . I will attend to your post when I'm done

petra1:


I'm downloading the translation.if we can agreee on a translation fine by me . I will attend to your post when I'm done

No need for a download bro....just visit www dot biblegateway dot com

Or beta still,which translation appeals to you more....We can go to "message" or "KJV" if thats what you want?

petra1:


Christ fulfilled circumcisiom . And it was spelt out. It's not every detail of the law that' applicable . Neither every detail are principles .

Nobody asked u this, the point am driving at is Abraham does something doesnt make it binding on Christians. The way tithing is been done under the levitical priesthood of Aaron and his sons is very different from what Abraham gave has tithe . in other words , tithe is a part of the mosaic law and Jesus has done away with the burdens of that law . we dont need Levites anymore and the purpose of the tithing arrangement among the isrealites was to sustain the levitical priesthood since they won't have any inheritance among the isrealites. And since we dont use the levitical priesthood anymore, tithing is not a requirement for Christians . no wonder we dont see Any apostle or older men collecting tithe from their fellow Christian brothers

petra1:


Quote it out where he said tithing is a law . While you're doing that I want you to look at this scripture

Exodus 20:12 (KJV Strong's)
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.


QUESTION: Is it right or wrong for Christians to honor their parents

It is right for Christians because we are under the of Christ and that law demands love
So i will honour my parents because i love them

petra1:


If Read my earlier posts. What christ fulfilled is not applicable . But the principles are still applicable . I may not offer burnt sacrifice . But God still receive my prayer, my work of service or my ficnancial giving as burnt sacrifice.



They don't give tithes and offerings of perishable things . They sell them and give tithes of the income .

Matthew 23:23 (NLT)
23 For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.




What christ fulfilled is spelt out in scripture . It's fulfilled in christ at salvation



Why are you attacking tithes . What about offering ? Why are you not attacking offering . What about alms to the poor . What about honoring your parents . Has christ fulfilled those ? Preachers are tithers and givers. Not collectors .

Further evidence of Fraud!


No such thing as income appeared in that verse , next time check a translation well before u use it . Here is the direct greek to English interlinear

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/23-23.htm

openmine:
HEBREWS 7:11 - 20

11 The people were given the law under the system of priests from the tribe of Levi. But no one could be made spiritually perfect through that system of priests. So there was a need for another priest to come. I mean a priest like Melchizedek, not Aaron.

12 And when a different kind of PRIEST comes, THEN THE LAW MUST BE CHANGED TOO

13-14 We are talking about our Lord Christ, who belonged to a different tribe. No one from that tribe ever served as a priest at the altar. It is clear that Christ came from the tribe of Judah. And Moses said nothing about priests belonging to that tribe.


15 And these things become even clearer when we see that another priest has come who is like Melchizedek.

16 He was made a priest, but not because he met the requirement of being born into the right family. He became a priest by the power of a life that will never end.

17 This is what the Scriptures say about him: “You are a priest forever—the kind of priest Melchizedek was.”

18 The old rule is now ended because it was weak and worthless. 19 The Law of Moses could not make anything perfect. But now a better hope has been given to us. And with that hope we can come near to God.

20 Also, it is important that God made a promise with an oath when he made Jesus high priest. When those other men became priests, there was no oath.

The condemnation of the law is not its content . Many principles of Gods kingdom are contained in the law. It's the law of God . It reaveals Gods mind about issues of life. The condemnation of the law is its inability to make a man righteous . Except he has eternal life . But having eternal life doesn't throw away the principles of the kingdom of God. That's why I asked you the question . I had wished for some honesty

CAPTIVATOR:


Further evidence of Fraud!

Mind your language . I don't converse with those who act naughty . Gods word doesn't require insult

Junia:



It is right for Christians because we are under the of Christ and that law demands love
So i will honour my parents because i love them

But the law says so . Hope you're getting my point

petra1:


The condemnation of the law is not its content . Many principles of Gods kingdom are contained in the law. It's the law of God . It reaveals Gods mind about issues of life. The condemnation of the law is its inability to make a man righteous . Except he has eternal life . But having eternal life doesn't throw away the principles of the kingdom of God. That's why I asked you the question . I had wished for some honesty

Which scripture talks about God's principles
His principles are the law
That was why He gave them out
Which principles again
Gimme a scripture

petra1:

But the law says so . Hope you're getting my point

And we are no longer under the law So we just love everybody That is what God demands

Junia:

And we are no longer under the lawSo we just love everybody That is what God demands

But Paul made reference to the law and not to christ.

Read this below

Ephesians 6:2-3 (KJV Strong's)
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Hope you will be honest to admit the point I'm making

petra1:


The condemnation of the law is not its content . Many principles of Gods kingdom are contained in the law. It's the law of God . It reaveals Gods mind about issues of life. The condemnation of the law is its inability to make a man righteous . Except he has eternal life . But having eternal life doesn't throw away the principles of the kingdom of God. That's why I asked you the question .

More Assumptions with no bible inclination!

Bro the scriptures are right in front of U...i even got U a simple translation for you to comprehend....

If God created some thing but didnt deem it fit to continue and decided to abolish it,and create a new one,why wud u still insist on obeying that same law that he condemned?

He called the law weak and useless....a law that cud not draw him close to his people...a law that alienated his people from him..
Such worthless law can not be applicable to believers in christ...

Even peter rebuked some jews who wanted to make newly converted gentiles to obey the law of moses...
Acts 15:1 -12

petra1:

I had wished for some honesty

You wished for some honesty when at every turn and twist,you keep evading my questions?
Amazing

openmine:

He called the law weak and useless....a law that cud not draw him close to his people...a law that alienated his people from him..
Such worthless law can not be applicable to believers in christ...

Weak and useless not in content . Weak and useless to bring justification. The law is good as long a sin you're not seeking it for justification.

Even peter rebuked some jews who wanted to make newly converted gentiles to obey the law of moses...
Acts 15:1 -12

Check the rebuke every condemnation has to do with justification.

Acts 15:1 (KJV Strong's)
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.


The law is good for reference . Without the law you will have no knowledge of right and wrong

You wished for some honesty when at every turn and twist,you keep evading my questions?
Amazing

Except I missed the question . And I don't mind you bring them up again

8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.

9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Romans 13:8 - 10

petra1:


But Paul made reference to the law and not to christ.

Read this below

Ephesians 6:2-3 (KJV Strong's)
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Hope you will be honest to admit the point I'm making

You can quote the law to teach because it reveals sin
You can teach on tithing from the law
But we are not under the law

Eg. According to the law, God is against sexual immorality

So from the law we know God is against it

So according to the law of Christ we should love

And we know in Christ God lives in us therefore our bodies are His temple

So what do we do ??
Because we love Him we will not destroy our bodies through sexual immoralities

From this
I quoted the law to be aware of what God doesn't like
But i didn't follow the law of Moses
I followed the law of Christ

Junia:


You can quote the law to teach because it reveals sin
You can teach on tithing from the law
But we are not under the law

Eg. According to the law, God is against sexual immorality

So from the law we know God is against it

So according to the law of Christ we should love

And we know in Christ God lives in us therefore our bodies are His temple

So what do we do ??
Because we love Him we will not destroy our bodies through sexual immoralities

From this
I quoted the law to be aware of what God doesn't like
But i didn't follow the law of Moses
I followed the law of Christ

Why did Paul quote the law .

petra1:

Why did Paul quote the law .

To make them aware of the sin of dishonouring parents
They won't fulfill this by going back to the law of Moses
They will use the law of Christ
How ?? By loving their parents You won't dishonour someone you love

petra1:


Weak and useless not in content . Weak and useless to bring justification. The law is good as long a sin you're not seeking it for justification.

That scripture is explicit and clear as daylight...U are d one that refuses to see it...
Did U see any where it was written that its "not in content"?
My issue with You and other tithe preachers is that U lack scripture backing for ur preposterous theories...hence no one takes you serious any more...
Putting up Ur own words to what is already clear only means U have ulterior motives...


Hebrews 7:18

The former regulation is SET ASIDE because it was WEAK and USELESS

The grammar is as simple as John 3:16
Haba...

petra1:

Check the rebuke every condemnation has to do with justification.

Acts 15:1 (KJV Strong's)
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

I guess U didn't see this or u intentionally ignored it...

Acts 15:5 - 10
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question.

7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.

8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

petra1:

The law is good for reference . Without the law you will have no knowledge of right and wrong

Thats for a sinner but not for a new convert or believer

1 Timothy 1:8 - 9
8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is MADE NOT for the RIGHTEOUS but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,

Another question...based on verse 8,do U know that if u break a law,You are guilty of ALL the LAWS?

James 2:10
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

petra1:

Except I missed the question . And I don't mind you bring them up again

Its obvious U are trying to be evasive and dishonest!!
If You said U missed the question,then it says much about ur inability not to learn Or maybe U r afraid of the questions...
Well...am going to be generous enough to offer U one of the questions while waiting for the rest...
One more time... Provide me with scriptures on tithe being an eternal principle?
If U dont know, Just be honest and humble enough to admit that you dont Know...simple

openmine:


That scripture is explicit and clear as daylight...U are d one that refuses to see it...
Did U see any where it was written that its "not in content"?
My issue with You and other tithe preachers is that U lack scripture backing for ur preposterous theories...

Romans 10:4 (KJV Strong's)
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Because the Jews sought righteousness through the law.

Philippians 3:9(KJV Strong's)
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

You see the Jews wanted righteousness and perfection by it . Jesus testified same thing too

John 5:39 (KJV Strong's)
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


Hope my point is clearer now. The law is useless if you go to it to be righteous. It you're made righteous by faith. The Jews lack the ability to keep the law because of the sin nature . Now we have received ability to do it.

hence no one takes you serious any more...
Putting up Ur own words to what is already clear only means U have ulterior motives...

People actually take me very seriously I receive several mails in appreciation. I'm hoping you will, soon

Hebrews 7:18

The former regulation is SET ASIDE because it was WEAK and USELESS

Useless in the ability to perfect a man. Or give eternal life

Thats for a sinner but not for a new convert or believer

Who is the sinner ? Jew or gentile ?

Another question...based on verse 8,do U know that if u break a law,You are guilty of ALL the LAWS?

That's when you seek righteousness by the law. One sin is bad enough . I get you you're correct ,but try get me too

Its obvious U are trying to be evasive and dishonest!![/quote

Fruits of the spirit brother . No need for anger. Just re present your question .

[quote]If You said U missed the question,then it says much about ur inability not to learn Or maybe U r afraid of the questions...
Well...am going to be generous enough to offer U one of the questions while waiting for the rest...
One more time... Provide me with scriptures on tithe being an eternal principle?
If U dont know, Just be honest and humble enough to admit that you dont Know...simple

Leave that one between me and God . He knows the heart .

If the law is as demonized as you paint it . Is ask again why would Paul and the other apostle be quoting the laws

petra1:


Mind your language . I don't converse with those who act naughty . Gods word doesn't require insult

Its an insult to Gods word to add to it things that were not there all in a bid to justify tithing.


Again, no such thing as income appears in Matt 23:23 , it says they tithe herbs or agricultural produce NO mention of money or income
.
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/23-23.htm

openmine:


That scripture is explicit and clear as daylight...U are d one that refuses to see it...
Did U see any where it was written that its "not in content"?
My issue with You and other tithe preachers is that U lack scripture backing for ur preposterous theories...hence no one takes you serious any more...
Putting up Ur own words to what is already clear only means U have ulterior motives...


Hebrews 7:18

The former regulation is SET ASIDE because it was WEAK and USELESS

The grammar is as simple as John 3:16
Haba...



I guess U didn't see this or u intentionally ignored it...




Thats for a sinner but not for a new convert or believer




Another question...based on verse 8,do U know that if u break a law,You are guilty of ALL the LAWS?




Its obvious U are trying to be evasive and dishonest!!
If You said U missed the question,then it says much about ur inability not to learn Or maybe U r afraid of the questions...
Well...am going to be generous enough to offer U one of the questions while waiting for the rest...
One more time... Provide me with scriptures on tithe being an eternal principle?
If U dont know, Just be honest and humble enough to admit that you dont Know...simple

We are waiting for Petra1 and his camp - Gombs, et al to give a simple clear answer.

When they claim to know but cannot provide a straightforward answers to questions then something must be wrong somewhere.
Lets however hope that this time around they will be civil and honest enough not to find reason(s) to 'check out'.

Junia:


To make them aware of the sin of dishonouring parents

They won't fulfill this by going back to the law of Moses

They will use the law of Christ

How ??
By loving their parents
You won't dishonour someone you love

Beautiful. But he quoted from the law. And recommended them to do it. So the law is not bad after all . It's the law of God. It contain principles for living. Why do you now get upset at the law . If Paul who you follow quote the law.

Can I ask you a question . Which scriptures were they reading in Paul's day.?

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV Strong's)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

James 1:22 (KJV Strong's)
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves

When James says be doers of the word . What word was he talking about ?

petra1:


Having only one incidence recorded doesn't make it a one time action. Secondly even if it is a once in a life time . The principle still stand . Abraham was recorded to have prayed once . Does that nullify prayers ? It's a principle of the kingdom. Prayers being mentioned in the law does not demonize prayer . Offering is there Why is it tithe that it's only tithe that is fought against . It shows there is something peculiar about it. And it's only God that knows why .

The only thing peculiar about tithing in churches today is that it is deliberate pious fraud instigated against believers by the clergy that is supposed to be forthright.

CAPTIVATOR:


Its an insult to Gods word to add to it things that were not there all in a bid to justify tithing.


Again, no such thing as income appears in Matt 23:23 , it says they tithe herbs or agricultural produce NO mention of money or income
.
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/23-23.htm

Firstly I have the right to my opinion just as you have right to your opinion . Why would you think your opinion is right and I'm wrong. Supposing you're wrong . Why not let us present our cases and point with humility and let the viewers decide . Why getting personal . That is fleshly and carnal . I can't force you to believe from my view . You are entitled to your view . I can only pray to God to open your understanding. Likewise you .

I should have thrown a lot of insults at some of you also but The principles of communication of the word of God which I uphold is revealed in the scripture below. Take heed to it

2 Timothy 2:24-26 (KJV Strong's)
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

annunaki2:

The only thing peculiar about tithing in churches today is that it is deliberate pious fraud instigated against believers by the clergy that is supposed to be forthright.

Tithers are not complaining. They know the benefit of their giving. It's non givers who complain for givers

Secondly clergymen are the number 1 tithers and givers .let me tell you the money of clergy is not through tithe . What we give to God . Is used for the house of God .

A clearly man lives by what he preaches . He gives and receives. Clergy who doesn't give. Can't have . The allowance a full time clearly receive is minimal . Let's not go there .

petra1:


Beautiful. But he quoted from the law. And recommended them to do it. So the law is not bad after all . It's the law of God. It contain principles for living. Why do you now get upset at the law . If Paul who you follow quote the law.

Can I ask you a question . Which scriptures were they reading in Paul's day.?

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV Strong's)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

James 1:22 (KJV Strong's)
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves

When James says be doers of the word . What word was he talking about ?

The word of God
At that time they have written alot of letters to the church already
And the OT was there at that time

But note the difference
When following the law, you will honour your parents because of the law

When following Christ, you will honour your parents because you love them

petra1:


Firstly I have the right to my opinion just as you have right to your opinion . Why would you think your opinion is right and I'm wrong. Supposing you're wrong . Why not let us present our cases and point with humility and let the viewers decide . Why getting personal . That is fleshly and carnal . I can't force you to believe from my view . You are entitled to your view . I can only pray to God to open your understanding. Likewise you .

I should have thrown a lot of insults at some of you also but The principles of communication of the word of God which I uphold is revealed in the scripture below. Take heed to it

2 Timothy 2:24-26 (KJV Strong's)
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Be careful the translation you quote. Thats the main thing, interlinears are online you can verify

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/23-23.htm

petra1:


Tithers are not complaining. They know the benefit of their giving. It's non givers who complain for givers

Secondly clergymen are the number 1 tithers and givers .let me tell you the money of clergy is not through tithe . What we give to God . Is used for the house of God .

A clearly man lives by what he preaches . He gives and receives. Clergy who doesn't give. Can't have . The allowance a full time clearly receive is minimal . Let's not go there .

A believer is not required to tithe because it is a law
And according to the law, tithe is agricultural products and must be given to levites, poor, widow and eat it during feasts
This is the law

There is nothing like kingdom principles
If you think there is something like that, prove with a scripture