The christians are always fond of saying that "carnal minds" can never understand the bible.
Well my mind must be be carnal then
2 kings 2:11
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
John 3:11
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.(these were jesus' words)
I don't think you need a soothsayer to tell you there is something wrong here
What's your say on this christians
Hopfullandlord, Hahn. Lennycool, jackbizzle, benzics, lepasharon, liberadeus, immorttal, seun, randomperson, teempakguy, SirWere, Akintom
The christian crew

jonbellion:
The christians are always fond of saying that "carnal minds" can never understand the bible.
Well my mind must be be carnal then
2 kings 2:11
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
John 3:11
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.(these were jesus' words)
What's your say on this christians
Hopfullandlord, Hahn. Lennycool, jackbizzle, benzics, lepasharon, liberadeus, immorttal

The christian crew

Sorry
Correct the spellings in your thread topic....

felixomor:


Sorry
Correct the spellings in your thread topic....

okay I will
Oya contribute

Firstly, do you believe that Christ Jesus came down from heaven?

jonbellion:
okay I will
Oya contribute

jonbellion:
The christians are always fond of saying that "carnal minds" can never understand the bible.
Well my mind must be be carnal then
2 kings 2:11
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
John 3:11
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.(these were jesus' words)
I don't think you need a soothsayer to tell you there is something wrong here
What's your say on this christians
Hopfullandlord, Hahn. Lennycool, jackbizzle, benzics, lepasharon, liberadeus, immorttal, seun, randomperson, teempakguy, SirWere, Akintom
The christian crew

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

The nazarene was a deluded miscreants that hadly got mentioned, in the historical documentation of the scholars, who lived about the very time that the delusionist was claimed to have lived.

The christards will rather impale massively, than submit that the whole buy-bull is a crap.

Omudia:
Firstly, do you believe that Christ Jesus came down from heaven?

no I do not
But you do

jonbellion:
okay I will
Oya contribute

never expect sensible comment from someone, whose intelligence is on life support.

akintom:


Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

The nazarene was a deluded miscreants that hadly got mentioned, in the historical documentation of the scholars, who lived about the very time that the delusionist was claimed to have lived.

The christards will rather impale massively, than submit that the whole buy-bull is a crap.

it honestly amazes me when I see educated people trying to rationalize obvious discrepancies in thier doctrine
I always said Christianity is an extremely horrible attempt to merge the other Abrahamic religion Judaism with it's core doctrine

akintom:
never expect sensible comment from someone, whose intelligence is on life support.

lmao
Most of them are avoiding the thread
This one was just too bad
Infallible book my arse

I think it's time to thanks y'all atheist on here... now I got more questions to ask these Jehovah witness
but sadly they don't come knocking anymore

I'm deist btw

oh well.. I heard the leaves that the words in the Bible were formerly written on was scattered and some got lost before some wise men found the location ... so they had to use their intelligence to complete it themselves

jonbellion:
The christians are always fond of saying that "carnal minds" can never understand the bible.

are u an atheist or a muslim?

post ur qurstion very well

CriticMaestro:
are u an atheist or a muslim?

athiest

CriticMaestro:
post ur qurstion very well

not a question really
I just wanted to see how you guys would rationalise it

The answer to your silly question is very obvious.

But guess what?

I wont even waste my time explaining nothing to you folks because it wont even change anything.

If you havent gotten the foundational knowledge of Christ coming into the world and paying the price for your sins, how will your blind eyes see deeper into the advanced wisdom of God.

Quote me and I wont even bother to answer

CriticMaestro:
post ur qurstion very well

was the nazarene not been ignorant or oblivious of the Torah, to have said no one has gone to heaven?

When both Elijah and Enoch have been?

Jeromejnr:
The answer to your silly question is very obvious.

But guess what?

I wont even waste my time explaining nothing to you folks because it wont even change anything.

If you havent gotten the foundational knowledge of Christ coming into the world and paying the price for your sins, how will your blind eyes see deeper into the advanced wisdom of God.

Quote me and I wont even bother to answer

cowards are the religitards and the christards.

i've dealt with ur kind before, this question is not surprising, u must have heard it somewhere but nonetheless stay tuned...gonna post something now

Jeromejnr:
[s]The answer to your silly question is very obvious.

But guess what?

I wont even waste my time explaining nothing to you folks because it wont even change anything.

If you havent gotten the foundational knowledge of Christ coming into the world and paying the price for your sins, how will your blind eyes see deeper into them advanced wisdom of God.

Quote me and I wont even bother to answer[/s]

okay
When you're dove bloviating the contradiction is still here
Elijah flew to heaven
Jesus said no one has flown to heaven
Besides your holier--than-thou-you're-too-carnal-to-understand-the word of God crap would you like to enlighten me
Ooh wait I forgot
You can't
It's written all over your response

Answer: In John 3:13 Jesus says to Nicodemus, “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.” This verse is somewhat difficult to interpret and is often misunderstood. It is also frequently used by those who want to find contradictions in the Bible.

We must keep the verse in context. In verses 10-12, especially, we see that Jesus is talking about His authority and the validity of His teaching. Jesus tells Nicodemus that He has been teaching what He knew firsthand: “We speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen” (verse 11). Then, in verse 13 Jesus explains why He is uniquely qualified to teach of the kingdom of God—namely, because He alone came down from heaven and possesses the knowledge to teach people about heaven. Jesus alone has seen the Father, and He alone is qualified to declare God and make Him known (John 1:18).

The gist of John 3:13 is this: “None of your earthly teachers can really teach you about heaven, because none of them have actually been there. However, I have been there. In fact, it is My home. I have come to you from heaven, and I have brought with Me experiential knowledge of that place. My testimony carries weight; I can tell you the truth about salvation.” The NLT brings out the meaning well: “No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.”

In claiming a heavenly abode, Jesus was claiming deity. Nicodemus himself had already admitted that Jesus was extraordinary when he said, “We know you are a teacher who has come from God” (verse 2).

Jesus was not teaching that no one had ever gone to heaven before. Obviously, the Old Testament saints had gone to heaven (or paradise) when they died (Mark 12:26-27), and Enoch and Elijah had been taken there without dying (Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11). Rather, He was teaching that, of all rabbis, He had the best credentials. Jesus has direct contact with heaven; He is an expert on the subject.

jonbellion:
okay
When you're dove bloviating the contradiction is still here
Elijah flew to heaven
Jesus said no one has flown to heaven
Besides your holier--than-thou-you're-too-carnal-to-understand-the word of God crap would you like to enlighten me
Ooh wait I forgot
You can't
It's written all over your response

Enoch (pastor Enoch Adeboye is hoping for this experience though) was whisked to heaven too.

This explanation is for the benefit of those who are looking for the truth, and not for those looking for an occasion to cavil

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. Jn. 3:12-13 KJV

Jesus was explaining to Nicodemus, a leader of Israel, that he must be born of water and the Spirit to enter the Kingdom of GOD. He made it clear to Nicodemus that He had only told him earthly things, and yet it was hard for him to believe. Jesus was then wondering how Nicodemus will be able to believe it if He told him of heavenly things, seeing that it was only Him who was privy to the heavenly tidings.

Jesus surely made an allusion to Deut. 30:12-14, which Nicodemus was familiar with in Jn. 3:13. He explained to Nicodemus that only the Son of GOD in Heaven came down with the Heavenly message for this world of sinners.

do u need to be clarified further?

Lolz... It's pretty interesting seeing the attempts by Christians to explain this contradiction...
It seems the best they can do is to ignore the actual words of the bible text and use their own words....
The funny thing is that the bible places a curse on those who remove from or add to the bible

CriticMaestro:
Answer: In John 3:13 Jesus says to Nicodemus, “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.” This verse is somewhat difficult to interpret and is often misunderstood. It is also frequently used by those who want to find contradictions in the Bible.

We must keep the verse in context. In verses 10-12, especially, we see that Jesus is talking about His authority and the validity of His teaching. Jesus tells Nicodemus that He has been teaching what He knew firsthand: “We speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen” (verse 11). Then, in verse 13 Jesus explains why He is uniquely qualified to teach of the kingdom of God—namely, because He alone came down from heaven and possesses the knowledge to teach people about heaven. Jesus alone has seen the Father, and He alone is qualified to declare God and make Him known (John 1:18).

The gist of John 3:13 is this: “None of your earthly teachers can really teach you about heaven, because none of them have actually been there. However, I have been there. In fact, it is My home. I have come to you from heaven, and I have brought with Me experiential knowledge of that place. My testimony carries weight; I can tell you the truth about salvation.” The NLT brings out the meaning well: “No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.”

In claiming a heavenly abode, Jesus was claiming deity. Nicodemus himself had already admitted that Jesus was extraordinary when he said, “We know you are a teacher who has come from God” (verse 2).

Jesus was not teaching that no one had ever gone to heaven before. Obviously, the Old Testament saints had gone to heaven (or paradise) when they died (Mark 12:26-27), and Enoch and Elijah had been taken there without dying (Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11). Rather, He was teaching that, of all rabbis, He had the best credentials. Jesus has direct contact with heaven; He is an expert on the subject.

John 3:13 And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


The crux of this thread is the contradiction that borders on the claim of Jesus, that no man has ascended to heaven bodily.

But if you now choose to do exegesis that wanna parry this to getting messages from heaven, all the priests, prophets and John the baptist, all ascended to heaven to receive messages from Yahweh via dreams, vision and trance.

Therefore, your exegesis is void and not applicable to the ignorance of Jesus.

randomperson:
Lolz... It's pretty interesting seeing the attempts by Christians to explain this contradiction...
It seems the best they can do is to ignore the actual words of the bible text and use their own words....
The funny thing is that the bible places a curse on those who remove from or add to the bible

u can read the bible withawt asking the holy spirit to guide you, that's y u can't comprehend the message we are trying to pass

CriticMaestro:
Answer: In John 3:13 Jesus says to Nicodemus, “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.” This verse is somewhat difficult to interpret and is often misunderstood. It is also frequently used by those who want to find contradictions in the Bible.

We must keep the verse in context. In verses 10-12, especially, we see that Jesus is talking about His authority and the validity of His teaching. Jesus tells Nicodemus that He has been teaching what He knew firsthand: “We speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen” (verse 11). Then, in verse 13 Jesus explains why He is uniquely qualified to teach of the kingdom of God—namely, because He alone came down from heaven and possesses the knowledge to teach people about heaven. Jesus alone has seen the Father, and He alone is qualified to declare God and make Him known (John 1:18).

The gist of John 3:13 is this: “None of your earthly teachers can really teach you about heaven, because none of them have actually been there. However, I have been there. In fact, it is My home. I have come to you from heaven, and I have brought with Me experiential knowledge of that place. My testimony carries weight; I can tell you the truth about salvation.” The NLT brings out the meaning well: “No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.”

In claiming a heavenly abode, Jesus was claiming deity. Nicodemus himself had already admitted that Jesus was extraordinary when he said, “We know you are a teacher who has come from God” (verse 2).

Jesus was not teaching that no one had ever gone to heaven before. Obviously, the Old Testament saints had gone to heaven (or paradise) when they died (Mark 12:26-27), and Enoch and Elijah had been taken there without dying (Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11). Rather, He was teaching that, of all rabbis, He had the best credentials. Jesus has direct contact with heaven; He is an expert on the subject.

interesting
I'm not really a fan of long arguements so I'll just leave you with this
Note he did not say no one has ascended and come back except him otherwise your explanation would have made 100% sense
He said no one has ascended
I hope you get the drift . Not to mention jesus actually belived that heaven was in the five layers of the atmosphere(there is proof of this) but when this was discovered modern Christianity has changed it too a "transcendent realm"
I hope you're getting the drift
Well obviously the NLT would attempt to correct the discrepancy

it's fine really cuz i've argued muslims before and i know where they are coming from but u guyz i just cant imagine..lemme ask u a simple question to u atheist, try and answer it honestly please, when u were 10 years old what did u believe in?

CriticMaestro:
Answer: In John 3:13 Jesus says to Nicodemus, “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.” This verse is somewhat difficult to interpret and is often misunderstood. It is also frequently used by those who want to find contradictions in the Bible.

We must keep the verse in context. In verses 10-12, especially, we see that Jesus is talking about His authority and the validity of His teaching. Jesus tells Nicodemus that He has been teaching what He knew firsthand: “We speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen” (verse 11). Then, in verse 13 Jesus explains why He is uniquely qualified to teach of the kingdom of God—namely, because He alone came down from heaven and possesses the knowledge to teach people about heaven. Jesus alone has seen the Father, and He alone is qualified to declare God and make Him known (John 1:18).

The gist of John 3:13 is this: “None of your earthly teachers can really teach you about heaven, because none of them have actually been there. However, I have been there. In fact, it is My home. I have come to you from heaven, and I have brought with Me experiential knowledge of that place. My testimony carries weight; I can tell you the truth about salvation.” The NLT brings out the meaning well: “No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.”

In claiming a heavenly abode, Jesus was claiming deity. Nicodemus himself had already admitted that Jesus was extraordinary when he said, “We know you are a teacher who has come from God” (verse 2).

Jesus was not teaching that no one had ever gone to heaven before. Obviously, the Old Testament saints had gone to heaven (or paradise) when they died (Mark 12:26-27), and Enoch and Elijah had been taken there without dying (Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11). Rather, He was teaching that, of all rabbis, He had the best credentials. Jesus has direct contact with heaven; He is an expert on the subject.

I like this guy.

jonbellion:
athiest

I thought you were a deist.

DoctorAlien:


If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. Jn. 3:12-13 KJV

.

Elijah and Enoch were given birth to, they claimed to have met and received messages from Yahweh. At the end, they both were ferried to heaven.

Jesus was given birth to and claimed all that Elijah and Enoch claimed. He was ferried to heaven too.

* what is the difference between the three of them?

* did Jesus descend from heaven? Noooo

Another name for crap is contradiction.