kinibigdeal:
How many mechanical engineer graduate in nigeria today can successfully assemble or fixed a simple fault in a car? If a mechanical engineer degree holder cannot fix a simple fault in a car, i think such fellow should be sent back to technical colleges for training. Have you ever wondered how a man with PhD in mechanics will be visiting a roadside mechanic at the slightest fault? Do you mean all they know is to assemble?

One cannot help but wonder at the level of ignorance of some so called educated people. How can you compare a PhD in mechanical engineering to a roadside mechanic. University education in mechanical engineering lay more enphasis on theory and design. Which is the basis the principles of how systems work. Mechanical engineering at university level does not teach you how to fix but how to design systems.

Roadside mechanics basically remove and replace parts but have no idea on the principles of operations.

If only you have been educated yourself, you would never have made such statements.

A PhD holder is research/design oriented. Comparing a PhD holder in mechanical engineering with a road side mechanic is out of place. Automobile technology is a branch in mechanical engineering. A mechanical engineer could be well versed in thermodynamics and not in automobile technology. A degree with lots of experience will do. There is a limit to whr "only" experience can take you to in an organizational structure.

Without experienced workforce in different sectors of our economy, we won't have an economy.

The Road side mechanics,Artisans, traders e.t.c
Are most times self employed...they transfer their knowledge to their apprentices who will become successful, train others n circle continues..... With this, less unemployment in our country.

Now I ask? How many people has the degree holder trained?

I am intending floating my own firm and I will based my recruitment based on experience and love not degree

ruxxz:
A PhD holder is research/design oriented. Comparing a PhD holder in mechanical engineering with a road side mechanic is out of place. Automobile technology is a branch in mechanical engineering. A mechanical engineer could be well versed in thermodynamics and not in automobile technology. A degree with lots of experience will do. There is a limit to whr "only" experience can take in organizational structure.

But most of the inventors don't even have PhD or didn't even attend University

I totally agree but I am not comfortable with the 'without a degree' part as it is totally impossible to be without a degree but gather experiences over the years, because the man with so many experiences started small at first. I would prefer you say someone with a lower class of degree; say a pass or even third class.

Personally, I have come to categorize resumés in two; that of an experienced fellow, which doesn't carry his class of degree and that of a rookie, which he ignorantly displays without cognate experience. The latter, I believe, does so to fill the void for his inability to produce enough experience. However, some companies fall for this and often resort to training folks in this category. Unfortunately, most companies these days consider training and retraining processes expensive and tend to avoid them at all cost, just so they could cut expenses.

The primary reason why most graduates with amazing grades cannot land a job is because they take pride in their certificates, believing it would fetch them everything in life without lifting a muscle. The effect of this is a long term one having rejected jobs they consider way below them. Eventually, they are considered unemployable and be termed unproductive.

Ironically, those who go far and sit on the food chains in their sectors are mostly those with years of cognate experiences while only a too few sit with them with their said high valued class of degree. Years of cognate experience far outweighs any class of degree.

ariesbull:


But most of the inventors don't even have PhD or didn't even attend University

Dumb lie.

Please mention their names.

Hmmm... Is the op implying that there is no need to have a degree?

I'm an accountant but learning computer engineering, a computer engineer came to our office to repair is laptop and i was intrigue, I later found out from him that lecturers don't have time for practicals, they are the ones that bring in someone to put them through in practicals.

When you have the experience you have the confidence, but when you don't you use ideas base on what you've read.

The educational system in Nigeria is nothing to write home about, in my own opinion I'd say both are good and works hand in hand to make a person more confidence.

From your explanation, those who started without a degree and made it didn't just stay there, they went back to school to get a degree which is how it should be.

kinibigdeal:
I will start by asking, can experience (with no educational background) make up for a lack of degree, or does a degree provide something that experience cannot? Is one more valuable than the other? Here lies the argument.

I will say the two argument depends on the spectrum you are viewing ir or rather the side of the fence you are sitting, this issue can be personal and most times emotional.

VIEW POINTS

I have seen people with many years of applicable work experience but no degree, and i have also seen multiple candidate's with degree but with no single work experience. Which of the two is now moew valuable to a coy?

To buttress my point, in a certain year there was an heavy shake up in a certain financial institution in lagos affecting a lot of experienced employer. What led to the shake up? Many of their senior staffs were moving closer to their retirement stage, and the bank knew the situation of the economy then was not conducive for a payoff, they strategized and came up with the idea of hiring a consultant to carry out a thorough investigation on all their experienced staffs. The investigation carried out reveals that many of their experienced staffs had no degree but a forged certificate. However, many of this staffs are the core strength of that financial institution with position ranging from risk, strategics and planning, procurement etc. Now the question? If those staffs with no traceable degree could hold sensitive position for that duration, of what benefit is a degree or paper qualification to performance?

Do you know that the founder of leadway insurance started with no degree (i stand corrected)? Do you know that FCMB started in same manner? The founder of a famous indiginous construction company in Lagos started with no degree (name withheld) and the coy is still waxing strong after over 20years. If that founder (with no degree but experience) applied for a job position in either Julius Berger, G-Kappa, D'Alberto etc will he qualify or be employeable? However, the question is followed by endless responses debating the issue. Obviously, there are specific cases where the question is mute.

TRUTH

Regardless of personal preference, what quality does a degree holder possess that an experience person(with no degree) does not have. Our employers will say -

1. A proven ability to analyze problem, conduct research and produce solutions
2. A proven ability to learn complex, difficult subject matter
3. Proof of intelligence
4. Better interpersonal skills
5. More credible qualifications

BUT I DISAGREE

Can we conclude that a person with experience does not possess all that? Are those with degree consistent with all those requirements? This is my root frustration with employers with a defined job requirements and how they will continue to miss out on a large pool of experience candidate's with no degree.

CONCLUSIONS

If you think a degree holder is better than a person with experience but no degree, then i say, bring a PhD holder in mechanical engineer (if any) and a road side mechanics for a presentation. The PhD holder may prevail with 'Smart terms and Linguistics' but the road side mechanic will thrill the audience with 'practical methodologies'.

Experience is the best teacher not degree


Hi, go and read about story of Hamilton Naki, a gardener turned self-taught surgeon who became a key assistant to pioneering heart surgeon Dr Christiaan Barnard in his organ transplant programme.



Then read about



Vivien Theodore Thomas (August 29, 1910 – November 26, 1985)[1] was an African-American surgical technician who developed the procedures used to treat blue baby syndrome in the 1940s. He was the assistant to surgeon Alfred Blalock in Blalock's experimental animal laboratory at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee, and later at the Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland. He served as supervisor of the surgical laboratories at Johns Hopkins for 35 years. In 1976 Hopkins awarded him an honorary doctorate and named him an instructor of surgery for the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.[2] Without any education past high school, Thomas rose above poverty and racism to become a cardiac surgery pioneer and a teacher of operative techniques to many of the country's most prominent surgeons.

The whites honestly cherish experience more

ariesbull:


But most of the inventors don't even have PhD or didn't even attend University

I beg to differ. There are loads of doctors/professors with patents. In the context of the op, he's comparing roadside mechanics with phd holders in mech engineering.

U can invent a process or gadget without seeing d 4 walls of a university. Bt I disagree with ur point dat most inventors are nt educated.

Cutie09:


I don't know about the 2 countries you mention but here in UK. They value experience over degree

Big fat lie.

How come the degree holders earn several times more than the so-called experience guys.

ariesbull:



Experience is the best teacher not degree

This statement mostly made by people who failed and dropped out of school. Your inability to acquire good education does not mean good education is bad.

kinibigdeal:
I will start by asking, can experience (with no educational background) make up for a lack of degree, or does a degree provide something that experience cannot? Is one more valuable than the other? Here lies the argument.

I see your argument, but I disagree.
1. I take it that by "degree", you don't mean the actual degree, but the education that leads to it.
2. A sense in which your argument is valid is this: experience acquired for a narrow range of tasks can actually be more useful than a degree for carrying out those, or similar tasks effectively. Hence, a mechanic can seem to understand certain aspects of cars more than a B.Sc. (Automobile Eng).
3. Experience won't give you the ability to abstract, a tool to solve any entirely new class of problems for which you have no experience. A good education can. In fact, this should be one of the primary outcomes of a good education.
4. So, a B.Sc. (Automobile Eng.) who observes a mechanic for a short while will (should!) be able to explain components and techniques in a superior way, and extend them in ways the mechanic can't.
5. Generally speaking, someone depending on experience can perform a related set of functions excellently well, but a properly-educated individual will be able to come up with better/new ideas and push the envelope in unusual ways.

A major caveat:
6. Humans are extremely nonlinear (or even stochastic) systems; few courses outside of the social sciences help in understanding or managing them. IMHO, management and entrepreneurship tasks depend more on experience and soft skills than the domain-specific skills which are the focus of university education.

There are skills trade- don't require a degree to perform and there are advanced jobs-that require a degree for you to perform excellently well. Most times, skills trade employees still see the need to have a degree because it is needed to get into some positions in the company. Would you employ a CEO that is an SSCE holder with 20 years of experience or a Masters degree holder with 12 years experience.
You need to have a deep understanding of what human resources is all about.

This is my opinion as regards this subject. First education or being educated is about learning whether formal or informal. The mind of the learner is being open to new ideas, concepts etc. Whatever he or she does with these ideas, concepts etc depends on the individual.
Though, the present Nigerian situation places emphasis on paper qualification, I see it as a tool for sieving candidates in other to reduce pressure. This is a tool employed by management consultants over the years.
Finally, education only polishes what you have in you.

...

Even the so called roadside mechanics can't work in some modern cars with high-tech.

numericalguy:




This statement mostly made by people who failed and dropped out of school. Your inability to acquire good education does not mean good education is bad.

Well, I am a researcher by profession working in an international market research firm....That will tell you that I am educated because the researches has taken me to countries

But, one thing I notice in Europe and America s that they will not ask you about your degree first but what you can do...


Here we lay much emphasis on paper certificate instead of experience.

you are missing the point!

why doesn't the bank manager do the job of a teller?
he is got more important stuffs to task his brain with.

please kinibigdeal, don't try to discredit the Nigerian education, some people got the best out of it, this has nothing to do with Nigeria, this is Experience vs Degree!

kinibigdeal:
How many mechanical engineer graduate in nigeria today can successfully assemble or fixed a simple fault in a car? If a mechanical engineer degree holder cannot fix a simple fault in a car, i think such fellow should be sent back to technical colleges for training. Have you ever wondered how a man with PhD in mechanics will be visiting a roadside mechanic at the slightest fault? Do you mean all they know is to assemble?

Jman06:
I totally disagree that 'experience' should be prioritized over degree. Going by your analogy about mechanical engineer with PhD and road side mechanic, the two can't be compared for any reason. The job of a roadside mechanic is to loose and change faulty parts of a car, while a mechanical engineer is trained to design and assemble cars and other machines from scratch. Most mechanical engineers can do the work of the roadside mechanic if they want to,the thing is that many of them consider it demeaning due to the way the job is done here in Nigeria.

Nigerians have the problem of poor reasoning and that is why somebody will come up with a biased opinion such as this post and the many will just swallow it hook, line and sinker without finding out the fact.


Before i went to pharmacy school, i used to hear some people say that the patent medicine vendors know drugs more than pharmacists. However, before going to pharm school, i sold drugs and so i know that the drug dealers know nothing about drugs. NOTHING!

Don't mind them. I have a degree in Elect/Elect Engrg. I work as a Field Support Engineer in one of the Telcos. I interface with technicians (mechanical and electrical) daily. All they have is skill which is developed from repetitive learning. They are 'blind' when it comes to critical thinking. Imagine some of them dont know how to use a multimeter to read voltage. I have to constantly tutor them on the difference between a generator producing voltage and having the rectifier deliver required voltage to the transmission equipment on site.

A nurse can never take the place of a doctor no matter how much field experience he/she may have acquired. Their trainings are different, so will be their understanding and interpretation of issues.

I think education limits people also

Most over educated people can't even think out if the box in Africa

Look at LAUTECH with their lecturers n economist, business admin department and others

They can even think of ways to make the University profitable


But the guy in Alaba will make their businesses profitable

kinibigdeal:
How many mechanical engineer graduate in nigeria today can successfully assemble or fixed a simple fault in a car? If a mechanical engineer degree holder cannot fix a simple fault in a car, i think such fellow should be sent back to technical colleges for training. Have you ever wondered how a man with PhD in mechanics will be visiting a roadside mechanic at the slightest fault? Do you mean all they know is to assemble?

What are you saying ? How many PhD holder have you encountered ? I beg you to stop deceiving the general public.

It 's obvious Nigerian's technology advancement based on those outdated experiences you re talking about........ are you insinuating we sacrifice innovative thinking for repairers ?

The funniest is; you refused to pity those road sides mechanics that are loosen out because of technology advancement

You have no idea who might read this and where

Cutie09:


I don't know about the 2 countries you mention but here in UK. They value experience over degree

Your correct

The west values experience more

Even it's

I disagree. Infact, your conclusion of comparing a PhD mechanical engineer and a roadside mechanic is highly flawed.

No matter how you look at it or say the education system is bad, your degree asures the employer you've understood every fundamental aspect of that profession and thats certainly an advantage.

The only thing seperating experience with no degree and degree is SKILL. It's left to the degree holder to get the necessary skills of that profession.

That being said, @OP, would you prefer experience with no degree against Degree with the needed skills for the profession?

numericalguy:



Dumb lie.

Please mention their names.

From Steve Jobs to eistein to even Zuckerberg or even the Ford


90% of world inventors aren't even PhD holders

ariesbull:
I think education limits people also

Most over educated people can't even think out if the box in Africa

Look at LAUTECH with their lecturers n economist, business admin department and others

They can even think of ways to make the University profitable


But the guy in Alaba will make their businesses profitable

The guy in Alaba has a monopoly to make decisions and execute it. The case is different with Lautech. Too many bereaucratic bottlenecks. Some of those lecturers you condemn as being incompetent have small scale business flourishing better than what some of those Alaba guys have.

I totally agree. Read this post on why firstclass doesn't matter and u will understand better www.studentcosmos.com/5-0-reasons-a-first-class-honour-doesnt-guarantee-you-success-in-future/ Experience is Key

kinibigdeal:
I will start by asking, can experience (with no educational background) make up for a lack of degree, or does a degree provide something that experience cannot? Is one more valuable than the other? Here lies the argument.

I will say the two argument depends on the spectrum you are viewing ir or rather the side of the fence you are sitting, this issue can be personal and most times emotional.

VIEW POINTS

I have seen people with many years of applicable work experience but no degree, and i have also seen multiple candidate's with degree but with no single work experience. Which of the two is now moew valuable to a coy?

To buttress my point, in a certain year there was an heavy shake up in a certain financial institution in lagos affecting a lot of experienced employer. What led to the shake up? Many of their senior staffs were moving closer to their retirement stage, and the bank knew the situation of the economy then was not conducive for a payoff, they strategized and came up with the idea of hiring a consultant to carry out a thorough investigation on all their experienced staffs. The investigation carried out reveals that many of their experienced staffs had no degree but a forged certificate. However, many of this staffs are the core strength of that financial institution with position ranging from risk, strategics and planning, procurement etc. Now the question? If those staffs with no traceable degree could hold sensitive position for that duration, of what benefit is a degree or paper qualification to performance?

Do you know that the founder of leadway insurance started with no degree (i stand corrected)? Do you know that FCMB started in same manner? The founder of a famous indiginous construction company in Lagos started with no degree (name withheld) and the coy is still waxing strong after over 20years. If that founder (with no degree but experience) applied for a job position in either Julius Berger, G-Kappa, D'Alberto etc will he qualify or be employeable? However, the question is followed by endless responses debating the issue. Obviously, there are specific cases where the question is mute.

TRUTH

Regardless of personal preference, what quality does a degree holder possess that an experience person(with no degree) does not have. Our employers will say -

1. A proven ability to analyze problem, conduct research and produce solutions
2. A proven ability to learn complex, difficult subject matter
3. Proof of intelligence
4. Better interpersonal skills
5. More credible qualifications

BUT I DISAGREE

Can we conclude that a person with experience does not possess all that? Are those with degree consistent with all those requirements? This is my root frustration with employers with a defined job requirements and how they will continue to miss out on a large pool of experience candidate's with no degree.

CONCLUSIONS

If you think a degree holder is better than a person with experience but no degree, then i say, bring a PhD holder in mechanical engineer (if any) and a road side mechanics for a presentation. The PhD holder may prevail with 'Smart terms and Linguistics' but the road side mechanic will thrill the audience with 'practical methodologies'.

This deserves an award for the most nonsensical post of all time

ariesbull:


From Steve Jobs to eistein to even Zuckerberg or even the Ford


90% of world inventors aren't even PhD holders

@bolded, where did u get this statistic?

And, pardon my ignorance, but do Mark Zuckerberg and Steve Jobs now pass for "inventors"?

ariesbull:

From Steve Jobs to eistein to even Zuckerberg or even the Ford

90% of world inventors aren't even PhD holders

Einstein has a Phd from the University of Zurich.

seriously speaking your thread doesnt carry any valuable point.... its not about the experience, but about the knowledge, dont you think that anyone can learn a mechanic work, and even atimes they repair your automobiles using trials and error method, but do you know what it takes to have a degree in mechanical engineering, and i believe its same in everyother field, sincerely speaking i guess you are a little educated thays why you are sayin this, not to mean any insult but its the truth, mind you a phd holder in mechanical engineering might be a specilist in thermofluid, power generating plant, and mechanics and not be a specialist in automobile engineering( which most of you the illeterate call mechanics) mechanics is another different thing entirely, it can be mechanics of solid or of fluids.... so learn this atleast, they are road side automobile technicians