enshy and ubenedictus you do not understand what the Church is. It is a living organism, it is alive by the Spirit. Please read this:

CHRIST IS THE CHURCH
What is a church? This is a question many have assume they know the answer to while others have try to look at it from a different perspective. Here I'm not referring to the whole body of Christ but a local church. Many Christians thinks church is the  building while some have come to see that a church is not a building but the members . Although this is a step closer to the truth but it is not totally true. A church is not the individual member but the assembly of the members.
The Greek word translated as church is ecclesia and it literal meaning is the 'assembly of the called out ones'. It doesn't just mean the people but the assembly of these people. Therefore a church is the meeting or gathering of Christians. It is not the building that Christian meet neither is it individual Christians but it is the very meeting, the assembly.
Even the Universal Church or the whole body of Christ is the fellowship of the believers. Without the fellowship there is no Church. Read further here:
http://hiswordxray..com.ng/2017/02/fellowship-organic-life.html?m=1

The church is a spiritual thing, it is alive and it is not just the physical gathering of believers. A group of believers may be gathered but yet church is absent. Church is the spiritual mixture of the fellowship of believers and the moving Spirit of Christ. It comprises of a candlestick of gold and the burning fire.

Wherever you have a group of believers meeting or gathering unto Christ it is a church. In the Athens democracy whenever the people meet to discuss the issues of the land it is called ecclesia. And this is where the word church came from, this means that a church is not just the people but the meeting of the people. To understand The Universal Church you must first understand the Local Church or rather the Christian meeting.
We've had this assumption that the Christian meeting is a program, an order of activities and a series of religious rituals. We must understand that God creates living organism and man can only build machines. Men build these machines with dead materials, they put these materials together using their intelligence and they power this machines with artificial life force. They also program these machines to behave in certain ways. For example, a robot, this robot can look like a man, move and talk a man. But it is not alive, it can never be termed a living thing. It may look alive but it is not alive. A robot can only do what he had been program to do, it doesn't have a mind of is own.

Thinking of the Christian meeting as a program is actually assuming that the Christian meeting is a robot. Look very closely at our meetings, what do you see? A dead thing, made of dead materials, human intelligence, human design. Look at all the efforts we put just to power it, just to make it feel alive. All the musical instruments we gather and the musicians we hire. All the jumping and shouting, all our attempt to carry the people along, to make the service lively and enjoyable, it is nothing but artificial life. Look at how well programmed our meeting is, we try to follow the schedule strictly, we try to keep to time and prevent any diversion from the order of the program. As a result our meeting is always the same, always following the same procedure like a robot, it doesn't have a mind of it's own. Yes, if you look very closely at our meetings all you would see is a man-made machine.

How then is a church or the Christian meeting according to God's mind? It is a living organism created by God. It is truly alive, created not by man's hands but by God and His Word (Christ). Yes, it is a living thing and it has a mind of it own, it cannot be controlled by man like some kind of robot. It does whatever it likes because it has it own will and no one has the right to infringe on it's will. Christ is the life that powers the meeting and Christ is the meeting himself. The Christian meeting is a person, it has a personality, it is Christ and Christ is Lord. Therefore all must submit to the church so that it can freely express it can freely express itself. No man tries to intervene as the church expresses it's life. The meeting cannot be controlled or manipulated by man for it is the Lord Jesus himself.

The Christian meeting is a church and a church is Christ therefore the Christian meeting is not a program. It is not a man-made thing but it is alive, it is a person - yes, it is Christ Jesus himself. A local church cannot be man-made, no! It cannot be a machine, not an ordinary program. A true church is alive, it is nothing else but Christ.
http://hiswordxray..com/2016/03/christ-is-local-church.html?m=1

Ubenedictus:

here again you seem to be missing something.

The christian message must be both communual and personal, it has to be both not just personal.
I even make bold to say that christianity was alway meant to be institutional. Jesus didnt just give us only teachings and left us with the holy spirit no! He left also a community of believer, with leaders who had power to bind and lose i.e make laws and govern...he left a church with all the xteristics of an institution. newbornmacho

While it is clear that there is a certain communalism in Christianity, I disagree that it is a human or an earthly or even a physical institution. The church of Christ if we understand it to be the body of his saints, the church of the firstborn written in heaven, it becomes very clear that such an organization cannot possibly be earthly. To the extent that only the lord knoweth them that are his, it is inconsistent to equally allow for an organization with a verifiable data base. If you cannot be sure who your real members are because you can't see their hearts, then you can't have any meaningful organization. Any organization with rogue membership, or that doesn't include any genuine saints alive obviously disqualifies. That cannot be achieved humanly. You might as well claim to have the book of life.

Hiswordxray all you did above was tell me that I have the wrong idea about the church and instead of showing me where the wrong idea is you simply dump a post from your blog which contains much of what i already believe even though it doesnt even do justice to d topic.

Next time u accuse someone of having d wrong idea be sure to point out the wrong idea.

Newmancho i'll respond to ur post in d morning.

Hiswordxray , thanks for commenting. Sorry I've been a little busy, I'll respond tomorrow.

newbornmacho:

OK
This is where very careful discernment is required.my answer is NO. By definition a denomination cannot fit into my concept of Church. A denomination is a group which has acquired an identity of its own, separate from that of its members and as such can operate and have a life without anything controlling it. Instead it controls the people in it. Since we know the holy spirit can only indwell sons, humans, the life if the organization is clearly not from God . please look closely.
The Church is not an earthly organization, it is spiritual and is not bound by space and time, when 2 or 3 are gathered in his name Church happens. When they disperse Church disperses. To create an organization that retains its life and name and identity even after the saints are dispersed is to have created an earthly organization and that is not church. So the lord leads 3 of his children individually, to a place , where they meet and have a strong spiritual fellowship- Church. They disperse and that us it. Nothing says the 3 of them must keep coming there at that same time under a name and structure! When that happens , a human arrangement as opposed to a spiritual has been started. Except of course if the lord specifically leads the same to that place every single time !
My argument is that the leading of the spirit has been replaced by human decision making and that has resulted in organizations that are running in their own strength, with their own timetable - what I call denominations. People join churches, their children become members, and you have a human society growing by natural principles. But bible, Jesus himself said that which is of the earth is earthly .....and again flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
This in my humble view is responsible for even the false teachers you talk aboutband the deadnessnof denominationalism. They spirit stays away when the flesh calls the shots. Can you imagine fixing a place and time and presuming God will always join you there when he has his own plan you refused to ask him about.
But why is this so important? These organizations firmed and operated in the flesh are the building blocks of Babylon, man's empire and God's enemy. Their later end is a fierce battle against God's authority and place in the earth.

You said it all. The root cause of this is side stepping of Holy Spirit. This has led to conversion of Christianity as way of life to religion which is attempt to fellowship with God without Holy Spirit.
If you observe you see that is why Jesus did not run local Assembly ministry neither did it condemn it. His emphasis was on the ends- win soul, preach the word. Creating local assemblies is just man's invention which is not wrong provided it is not abused.
Not to worry very soon virtual churches shall soon be displacing physical ones by the virtue of information age.

Ubenedictus:
Hiswordxray all you did above was tell me that I have the wrong idea about the church and instead of showing me where the wrong idea is you simply dump a post from your blog which contains much of what i already believe even though it doesnt even do justice to d topic.

Next time u accuse someone of having d wrong idea be sure to point out the wrong idea.

Newmancho i'll respond to ur post in d morning.

I didn't say you were wrong, I said you do not understand. You judge things based on your perception, your preconceived thoughts rather than the reality and that is what have blinded you.
Happy Sunday

Hiswordxray:

I didn't say you were wrong, I said you do not understand. You judge things based on your perception, your preconceived thoughts rather than the reality and that is what have blinded you.
Happy Sunday

So what is it you think i do not understand?

now u claim i have been blinded from reality...guess what i think u should apply that statement to yourself, if u cant prove my misunderstanding then you are the one with delusions.

Hiswordxray thanks for sharing your really great insights.

Ubenedictus:
So what is it you think i do not understand?

now u claim i have been blinded from reality...guess what i think u should apply that statement to yourself, if u cant prove my misunderstanding then you are the one with delusions.

Can't you just be a brother?
Why must you argue with fellow Christians?

How was mass today?

Hiswordxray:

Can't you just be a brother?
Why must you argue with fellow Christians?

How was mass today?

I have been a brother thus far, you don't just accuse people of been blinded and not show how and where.

Mass is alway beautiful, moreso in holy week.

Ubenedictus:
I have been a brother thus far, you don't just accuse people of been blinded and not show how and where.

Mass is alway beautiful, moreso in holy week.

Glory!
Where was that? I mean the mass...

Hiswordxray:
Glory! Where was that? I mean the mass...

the nearest parish to u.

You are tired of the division in Christianity?

Then return home to Mother Church.

Otherwise, you havent seen nothing yet.

italo:
You are tired of the division in Christianity?

Then return home to Mother Church.

Otherwise, you havent seen nothing yet.

I'm not tired of division!!! Christ himself said he came to bring division. I am however tired of being led of mere humans like the pope and priests , they have created a human arrangement that is totally against the spirit of Christ. You my dear need to listen and be led of the spirit of God.

Ubenedictus:
the nearest parish to u.

There are no Catholic Church close to me. I'm in Zamfara state where there are very few churches.

newbornmacho:

I'm not tired of division!!! Christ himself said he came to bring division. I am however tired of being led of mere humans like the pope and priests , they have created a human arrangement that is totally against the spirit of Christ. You my dear need to listen and be led of the spirit of God.

This is what happens when ignorant protestants think they know God's word more than the Catholic Church.

1. Christ came to turn believers against unbelievers. He did not come to turn believers against believers. Apparently, your pastor has never shown you John 17:11,20. He wont show you because he know he is going against Jesus' wish...and if that wish happens, his source of money is gone.

2. You are tired of being led by Pope and priests but you are reading the bible that Pope Damasus and Priests compiled and canonized in the Synod in Rome 382AD. Isnt that foolishness of the highest order?

3. You want me to be led by the 'Spirit of God.' Which 'Spirit of God?' The one that led protestants to be divided into millions of contradictory doctrines...or the one that led Catholics to compile and canonize the Bible?

Hiswordxray:

There are no Catholic Church close to me. I'm in Zamfara state where there are very few churches.

even in d north the are more catholic churches than any other church, i'm pretty sure there is one in d village/town where u are.

italo:


This is what happens when ignorant protestants think they know God's word more than the Catholic Church.

1. Christ came to turn believers against unbelievers. He did not come to turn believers against believers. Apparently, your pastor has never shown you John 17:11,20. He wont show you because he know he is going against Jesus' wish...and if that wish happens, his source of money is gone.

2. You are tired of being led by Pope and priests but you are reading the bible that Pope Damasus and Priests compiled and canonized in the Synod in Rome 382AD. Isnt that foolishness of the highest order?

3. You want me to be led by the 'Spirit of God.' Which 'Spirit of God?' The one that led protestants to be divided into millions of contradictory doctrines...or the one that led Catholics to compile and canonize the Bible?

1. True believers worldwide are united- the unity of the holy spirit. In addition, they are united against religious organizations and denominations like the Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, Jehovah's witnesses , RCCG, etc that all only serve the purposes of the flesh.

2. And the pope stole the Jewish canon but refuses to be led by a Rabbi? You can see how wise you are. Listen the Bible says: if all that Jesus did were recorded there would be no room to house the books. And by the way I don't attack or condemn people, I attack and condemn godless denominational outfits.

3. Certainly not the spirit that led the Catholic church to murder people in the name of God. Both Catholicism and prostentantism are sides of the same denominationalism coin.
There is one spirit my dear, but it is not available to all, only to the elect. You can't argue your way into it.

newbornmacho:


1. True believers worldwide are united- the unity of the holy spirit. In addition, they are united against religious organizations and denominations like the Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, Jehovah's witnesses , RCCG, etc that all only serve the purposes of the flesh.

Where are these true believers? Are they an invisible secret cult?

newbornmacho:

2. And the pope stole the Jewish canon but refuses to be led by a Rabbi? You can see how wise you are. Listen the Bible says: if all that Jesus did were recorded there would be no room to house the books. And by the way I don't attack or condemn people, I attack and condemn godless denominational outfits.

The Pope didnt steal the canon. Jesus established the Church. The Church does not depend on the Bible to exist. The Church canonized the Bible by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. If you accept the Bible as the word of God, you've accepted the God-given authority of the Church to teach true doctrine.

newbornmacho:


3. Certainly not the spirit that led the Catholic church to murder people in the name of God. Both Catholicism and prostentantism are sides of the same denominationalism coin.
There is one spirit my dear, but it is not available to all, only to the elect. You can't argue your way into it.

I still dont know the spirit you're talking about, my dear. It appears it only exists in your closet. I am led by the Holy Spirit which Jesus promised his Church, to lead it to all truth. The one, by whom the Church compiled the Bible. The one that teaches one faith, one baptism, one doctrine. Not the one that teaches you one thing and teaches apostle Suleiman the opposite, while you both claim to be taught by one spirit.

otemanuduno:
small small they are getting fed up. The thummim is getting fulfilled. I am glad.That's how it goes-from being fed up with lies of churches to being fed up with lies of fictional jesus. Then conversion from christianithief to an unbeliever follows.

#Proudly_unbeliever

You are too negative.......must you comment

italo:
You are tired of the division in Christianity?

Then return home to Mother Church.

Otherwise, you havent seen nothing yet.

which one is "mother church"

urheme:




You are too negative.......must you comment

I am only fulfilling my mission to this planet. I AM BORN TO TURN CHRISTIANITY TO A JOKE AND REVEAL GOD ALMIGHTY THE FATHER OF yahweh, Allah, Vishnu and their brothers and sisters. I AM OTEM.

urheme:



which one is "mother church"

The one that compiled and canonized the Bible in 382AD

newbornmacho:

Hahaha otemanuduno! You are found out like one of them . when Mohammed was asked for proof of his prophet hood he pointed to his book. Item the great revelator of doctufo doesn't know the name of his god child, and has to rely on the brain of man to remind him.

OK . you do have a point I agree with though, we are gods says the scriptures to thise to whom the word was sent. And yes God reproduces himself in his creation, producing sons of God who are in effect God.
But Satan also incarnates himself producing the beast, the false prophet and many other sons of Belial. These ones are false gods of this world who shiver and tremble at the mention of the name of Jesus Christ, the culmination and perfection of the incarnation of divinity, called the SON of God. In him all things consist, he is the essence of reality, and meaning , and nature , and being, the rock that followed the Israelites in the wilderness, the logos and word and the manifestation of The Almighty God, the mystery that holds all things together,in him we live and move and have our being, in him all things consist.
But he reveals himself only to the predestined few... The elect, and all others are abandoned to wallow in all manner of stupid theories of men to whirl away what little time they have on earth .

Between Gods love and Yahweh's which would you choose eventually you realise Yahweh is also a god like you? This person enlightening us appear to be experienced, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a better Christian than you were before this TRUTH yet you still doubt him. Is it not a better feasibility if the golden rules says use your brain, do good to humanity etc, I mean, if Yahweh does good per se would he want you in fire?? Let's be logical please