Benin was an empire.... right from the ogiso era to the oba era.... please don't argue it, people that don't know anything about history be talking sh*t

NkayTiana:
Benin was an empire.... right from the ogiso era to the oba era.... please don't argue it, people that don't know anything about history be talking sh*t

see who's taking.

You obviously dont know what an empire is. A typical ignorant bini fellow.

Before Ewuare I, there was nothing like empire. And even after Ewuare, Bini's method, size and influence is not praiseworthy as an empire
As a kingdom it did well but as an empire, it is just a hype and undeserved name calling

NkayTiana:
Benin was an empire.... right from the ogiso era to the oba era.... please don't argue it, people that don't know anything about history be talking sh*t

Just leave those morons to keep dwelling in their stupidity

[[s]quote author=macof post=58534238]

see who's taking.

You obviously dont know what an empire is. A typical ignorant bini fellow.

Before Ewuare I, there was nothing like empire. And even after Ewuare, Bini's method, size and influence is not praiseworthy as an empire
As a kingdom it did well but as an empire, it is just a hype and undeserved name calling [/quote][/s]




TRASH!!...... AS USUAL

How can an empire of the 1800's lose so much language, culture among others

How can an empire be subject to ile ife ?

How can an empire speak another language other than benin

How can empire be boost of conquering a land that welcome them rather than fight. Aka Lagos

Look, I am a true lagosian from bini oba ado genealogy.

1. Eko mean war camp in bini but mean farmland in awori dialect. In fact where is palace is located is can pepper farmland

2. Bini kingdom has always been under Yoruba until the last oba that died . He twisted you people's history and the younger generation don't know anything

3. Ask yourself, if you conquered these places, why are they not subject to your oba ? His rule ends in bini , he is not even respected in places like Auchi or gelegele

My advice to people of ile ibinu is to go back to their history before they lose more. Already the land is getting smaller by the day with igbake coming from the east, akoko from the west, ebira from the north and ijaw of gelegele from the south. More curse on those that distort history

Btw after akiolu the bastard, just pray that likes of me don't become king because I will completely remove any rubbish bini from Lagos complete and teach the next generation how binis where the bastard sons that got lost in ile ibinu. I will also distort history

Imagine the mumus claiming sango, ogun, okun eye etc to be bini.

Look yorubas we don't lie, Just because Sango is nupe does not make us less. Till today the nupe respect us as we don't distort our history to favour us.

WE DO NOT HAVE LOW SELF ESTEEM

I don't even think some of you know what it takes to be yoruba ? You think it is just a corroboration of different people of languague etc

To be yoruba, You most be of common history

Yoruba is a Nation !

In this Nation there was an Empire. A true Empire from west of Nigeria to Togo even the Ga people of Accra

The Empire was called Oyo Empire

In this Nation, there were Kingdoms.

Ibadan, Illorin, Eko, Akure, Ugbo, Mahin, Ekiti,Jebba, Ijebu, Popo (togo) Dahomey (Benin republic) etc just to mention a few

Some of these kingdom has other kings under them and some where playing homeage to the Alafin

Benin kingdom is no different from Ijebu kingdom

Both had other kings paying homage to them,

In fact Ijebu kindom was better as they has structure to prove it.

The word Oba is PURELY A YORUBA WORD ADOPTED BY THE BINI. Every yoruba king is titled Oba even to Togo and Niger state. These are places Binis could only dream of getting to.

Ade means crown, Likes of Adesuwa etc mean crown. Even the German Adeliade is royality

I can go on an on. Yorubas say "Even if you are lied to, you are suppose to use your number 6"

Abeg I don tire. Thank God Itsekiris and Ilaje have left your deluded selves.

Keep on decieving yourselves that Bini kingdom was the greatest even to Austria

What is that clown typing up there?....... ogogoro nor good OOO

[[s]quote author=aljharem post=58535991]I don't even think some of you know what it takes to be yoruba ? You think it is just a corroboration of different people of languague etc

To be yoruba, You most be of common history

Yoruba is a Nation !

In this Nation there was an Empire. A true Empire from west of Nigeria to Togo even the Ga people of Accra

The Empire was called Oyo Empire

In this Nation, there were Kingdoms.

Ibadan, Illorin, Eko, Akure, Ugbo, Mahin, Ekiti,Jebba, Ijebu, Popo (togo) Dahomey (Benin republic) etc just to mention a few

Some of these kingdom has other kings under them and some where playing homeage to the Alafin

Benin kingdom is no different from Ijebu kingdom

Both had other kings paying homage to them,

In fact Ijebu kindom was better as they has structure to prove it.

The word Oba is PURELY A YORUBA WORD ADOPTED BY THE BINI. Every yoruba king is titled Oba even to Togo and Niger state. These are places Binis could only dream of getting to.

[/s]



[
DRUNKARD !!

KingOvoramwen1:
[[s]quote author=aljharem post=58535991]I don't even think some of you know what it takes to be yoruba ? You think it is just a corroboration of different people of languague etc

To be yoruba, You most be of common history

Yoruba is a Nation !

In this Nation there was an Empire. A true Empire from west of Nigeria to Togo even the Ga people of Accra

The Empire was called Oyo Empire

In this Nation, there were Kingdoms.

Ibadan, Illorin, Eko, Akure, Ugbo, Mahin, Ekiti,Jebba, Ijebu, Popo (togo) Dahomey (Benin republic) etc just to mention a few

Some of these kingdom has other kings under them and some where playing homeage to the Alafin

Benin kingdom is no different from Ijebu kingdom

Both had other kings paying homage to them,

In fact Ijebu kindom was better as they has structure to prove it.

The word Oba is PURELY A YORUBA WORD ADOPTED BY THE BINI. Every yoruba king is titled Oba even to Togo and Niger state. These are places Binis could only dream of getting to.

[/s]



[
DRUNKARD !!

KingOvoramwen1:
What is that clown typing up there?....... ogogoro nor good OOO

time will tell

aljharem:


time will tell

Fuuucckk off...... You have got nothing reasonable to say

You know, its painful how bad they've fvcked these bits of history up. The great moats have been turned into dumpsite, some into sand quarries. Tourism opportunity wasted. Nigerians dont value what they have.

aljharem:
OP I have you time today. Enough of all these lies

1. The picture you displayed is NEVER bini but Sungbo's Eredo which is located in Ijebuland aka Yoruba

http://originalpeople.org/sungbos-eredo-africas-largest-man-structure/

2. Benin KINGDOM NOT AN EMPIRE. Do you know what an empire is ?

3. Benin kingdom wall IS NOT ONE OF THE LARGEST MAN-MADE WALL. STOP THE LIES.

In Nigeria alone we have larger man made structures than benin wall.

- Sungbo Eredo
- The Queen Amina Palace. Just to mention a few

4. The british never fought benin, they simply conqured it. It is on record that only the Igbos and Lagosian fought the british

I don tire sef. I no get energy wer I get before

Anyway keep deceiving yourself

Its an empire, not a kingdom, cos its influence streched beyond the land, just like the kanem borno empire in the north

see you talking. . Am not a benin girl am from Anioma.... delta,dont be dull please

macof:


see who's taking.

You obviously dont know what an empire is. A typical ignorant bini fellow.

Before Ewuare I, there was nothing like empire. And even after Ewuare, Bini's method, size and influence is not praiseworthy as an empire
As a kingdom it did well but as an empire, it is just a hype and undeserved name calling

macof:
A great kingdom, yes.
but in the league of empires, Bini is nothing of glory.

An empire that could not spread its ethnic identity, its language, its culture? its land? oh please. Don't insult true empires

did the romans empire spread its own ethnic identity?

aljharem:
How can an empire of the 1800's lose so much language, culture among others

How can an empire be subject to ile ife ?

How can an empire speak another language other than benin

How can empire be boost of conquering a land that welcome them rather than fight. Aka Lagos

Look, I am a true lagosian from bini oba ado genealogy.

1. Eko mean war camp in bini but mean farmland in awori dialect. In fact where is palace is located is can pepper farmland

2. Bini kingdom has always been under Yoruba until the last oba that died . He twisted you people's history and the younger generation don't know anything

3. Ask yourself, if you conquered these places, why are they not subject to your oba ? His rule ends in bini , he is not even respected in places like Auchi or gelegele

My advice to people of ile ibinu is to go back to their history before they lose more. Already the land is getting smaller by the day with igbake coming from the east, akoko from the west, ebira from the north and ijaw of gelegele from the south. More curse on those that distort history

Btw after akiolu the bastard, just pray that likes of me don't become king because I will completely remove any rubbish bini from Lagos complete and teach the next generation how binis where the bastard sons that got lost in ile ibinu. I will also distort history

Imagine the mumus claiming sango, ogun, okun eye etc to be bini.

Look yorubas we don't lie, Just because Sango is nupe does not make us less. Till today the nupe respect us as we don't distort our history to favour us.

WE DO NOT HAVE LOW SELF ESTEEM

stop crying pls

Nedsnow:

Of course I know. But it still holds some facts you know.
And like i said before. I did a lot of Yoruba language subject back in high school. And when I mean a lot, I mean the real deal. Not all this crap they are teaching students this days.

try and read those written by Benin historians

enomakos:
stop crying pls

NkayTiana:
see you talking. . Am not a benin girl am from Anioma.... delta,dont be dull please

You are the one acting dull here. Making noise about Bini being a powerful empire. No real historian or cultural anthropologist considers Bini a praiseworthy Empire. As a kingdom it did remarkably well but lets not exaggerate and insult true Empires

enomakos:
did the romans empire spread its own ethnic identity?

Yes they did. They spread their identity all over, they spread their culture and language

Look at Empires around the world, even in west africa..we can look at Oyo empire, how it spread its ethnic identity, culture and language through trade, political dominance and migration
Everywhere Oyo went they remained Oyo and incoprated others..eg Modakeke, Ibolo, Ibarapa
Even Owu that was scattered remained Owu everywhere they went and incoprated others

adegeye38:

Its an empire, not a kingdom, cos its influence streched beyond the land, just like the kanem borno empire in the north

It is an empire quite alright but a very ineffective empire..one doesnt expect all this noise about empire of that almost non existence outside homeland influence and small size. Look at Oyo, it expanded its homeland as well as Lands that it controlled.


Even when talking about Egypt, we dont scream "empire" but refer to it more as a Kingdom

macof:


It is an empire quite alright but a very ineffective empire..one doesnt expect all this noise about empire of that almost non existence outside homeland influence and small size. Look at Oyo, it expanded its homeland as well as Lands that it controlled.


Even when talking about Egypt, we dont scream "empire" but refer to it more as a Kingdom

I understand your point quite alright.

people refer to Egypt as a kingdom in the sense that, the kingdom was mostly baesd within the Egyptian state, unlike the persian and roman empire, that streched far beyond there main territories

but in reality Egypt was even more than a Empire, It was a civilisation.

[[s]quote author=macof post=58543389]

It is an empire quite alright but a very ineffective empire..one doesnt expect all this noise about empire of that almost non existence outside homeland influence and small size. Look at Oyo, it expanded its homeland as well as Lands that it controlled.


Even when talking about Egypt, we dont scream "empire" but refer to it more as a Kingdom[/quote][/s]

Stop making URSELF sound stupid......DID U EVEN GO TO SCHOOL AT ALL?........ DAMN!!

adegeye38:

I understand your point quite alright.

people refer to Egypt as a kingdom in the sense that, the kingdom was mostly baesd within the Egyptian state, unlike the persian and roman empire, that streched far beyond there main territories

but in reality Egypt was even more than a Empire, It was a civilisation.

Exactly. It would take away the glory of "Empire" to keep up the hype that Benin was a powerful empire.
If Benin claims empire, so can Nupe, so can Dahomey so can Ashanti..afterall these 3 West African powers i just mentioned controlled lands outside their homeland
But it takes much more to be considered an effective empire

yeah thats true, they all can be called empires in quote, but not in the sense of the gigantic roman or persian empire, that streched across the known world as at then

olumzzz:
Sandydayziz, wen are we visiting dis wall?

Anyday u want baby
I'll take u dere

AreaFada2:


Maybe you should read my other submission earlier about meaning of an empire. Empire is not just about size. I do not remember comparing the size of Oyo to Benin in imperial times. Because I am not an expert on Oyo. It certainly stretched to some Savannah lands going up North. It was used to explain why Kankanfo used date palm to symbolically mark Oyo-Benin border while Benin a rain forest plant called Ikhimwin. According to some writers/experts I asked. Traditionally planted by Benin people to mark a new village, settlement or boundary.
I guess the problem is that you see TUCKING YORUBA UNDER BENIN AS A GOAL. Instead, it is Yoruba people coming up with empire denial as if their lives depend on it. They descend on every thread involving Benin history.

a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority; especially: one having an emperor as chief of state

I'll get to various definitions of what an empire is and not waste any time on side comments.

- According to Michael Doyle, for instance, empire is 'a relationship, formal or informal, in which one state controls the effective political sovereignty of another political society’; ‘a system of interaction between two political entities, one of which, the dominant metropole, exerts political control over the internal and external policy – the effective sovereignty – of the other, the subordinate periphery’.

- Stephen Howe’s definition makes an attempt to combine the defining qualities of political hierarchy and cultural diversity: ‘an empire is a large, composite, multi-ethnic or multinational political unit, usually created by conquest, and divided between a dominant center and subordinate, sometimes far distant, peripheries.’

- a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority; especially: one having an emperor as chief of state.

See: https://www.princeton.edu/~pswpc/pdfs/scheidel/020601.pdf and
https://www.nthurston.k12.wa.us/cms/lib/WA01001371/Centricity/Domain/564/What%20is%20an%20Empire.pdf

I italicized the key components of each definition: great territorial extent, a large composite multi ethnic and multinational unit, control of other states by a power in the centre.

-- Did Oyo have a great territorial extent, yes; did Oyo have a large composite multi ethnic and multi national unit, yes; did Oyo exert control on other states by the power in the centre, yes.

-- Did Bini have a great territorial extent, no; did Bini have a large composite multi ethnic and multi national unit yes but not large; did Bini exert control on other states by the power in the centre, yes. Bini was never an empire in the true sense of it. Let us look at Lagos to begin with, Bini's presence was on a small patch of land and the awori were never conquered. Lagos history states that the Awori folks willingly gave that patch of land to the Bini soldier and it wasn't acquired by context - Bini on its patch of land was doing its thing which was to ensure of Bini sea traders/travellers more. In the Delta/Onitsha area, what operated was a case of Bini emigrants moving to other places in this region to assume political posts which created a kin-type connection with Bini. I do not know what operated in Akoko Edo but nevertheless, Bini's area of influence wasn't only meagre it was not an empire in any or true sense of it when juxtaposed with other numerous empires in Nigeria, Africa and all over the world.

You clearly forget that at the material time, what you call Yoruba today did not exist as it does now. You were Ijebu, Awori, Egba, Oyo, Owo, Ekiti, etc. It was more like Benin, Esan, Afemai of today. They saw themselves as related but different. The standardization of Yoruba lanuguage (oyo Yoruba largely) has blurred the lines. But still my relatives native to Ekiti & those native to Ondo still have dialectic difference even till now. Emir Kanu Lamido Sanusi also made this point a few years ago. The internecine civil wars in Yorubaland were political but it was partly made possible because they saw themselves as different. Though modern Yoruba people cannot imagine it. Back then, it would not have been perceived a civil wars by most. It was different nations/kingdoms against each other by and large.

That line is immaterial and played. One of my lecturers, a northerner, during my MA days played this card but to me it made and still makes no sense -- so Emire Sanusi mouthing it means nothing, many research papers local and foreign; as well as cultural realities point to something very different. A single nomenclature for a people does not mean they're similar or more unified than the next. Disabuse your mind from 'They saw themselves as related but different.' All major Yoruba towns and their appendage towns all know they're tied together by Ife and the replete cultural similarities shared across board. You probably need to read The Heritage of Oduduwa: Traditional History and Political Propaganda among the Yoruba Author(s): R. C. C. Law which expounded on Prof. Akinjogbin's 'ebi theory' of the Yoruba which your Bini kingdom a party to. You also need to review Samuel Johnson's History of Yoruba which described the practicality of this ebi theory with all Yoruba towns seeing themselves as one and Ife being the nucleus of their world which in turn led to the complete sacking of Owu town when it went against this socio-political system.

The Ekiti-Parapo wars which ignorant folks often cite as the proof of Yoruba's never being one was a war for balance of power. All towns, super and dependencies were all under the clutches of Oyo for centuries. The collapse of Oyo gave them freedom, something they've long lost and the rise of Ibadan trying to put them in the clutches of oppression and take away their freedom drove everyone up the wall and blocs were formed to ensure balance of power and put an end to any all powerful town rising to the point of controlling all Yoruba towns.

Oyo Yoruba was not standardized, we are presently NOT speaking/using Oyo Yoruba. You probably need to go to Oyo or Ibadan or Iseyin and any other Oyo enclave to hear how they speak and see if it is different from the national Yoruba we use or not. Standardized, yes. Standardized Oyo, No.

Please get rid of the thoughts of Yoruba folks never being one. What changed in 19th century was the spread of Yoruba nomenclature from being just an Oyo name to include all other towns -Ijebu, Egba, Ife, Ilesa, Ekiti and Ondo. Either we had/have the name or not, from Oyo to Egba, to Ilesa, to Ekiti to Ondo to Ijebu cultural affinities abound in excess and Ife still remains the nucleus of their world.

You also miss another point about empire & conquest. Successful empires moderate or large were NOT build through 100% conquest. In fact wars have been the least preferred option except where inevitable. It was through strategic alliances. Such as offering smaller kingdoms/chiefdoms friendship and protection in return for recognizing the larger/more powerful king as overlord. And pay homage/tribute.
A land that accepted such friendly terms of suzerainty get lots of freedom to operate internally.

The emboldened clearly isn't a feature of an empire but a diplomatic gesture and agreement between two powers. Getting lots of freedom to operate internally isn't a feature of an empire, I'm sorry. This is what Bini's kingdom was based on and it doesn't fit the bill of how empire building and sustenance operated around the world. Kingdoms forming part of an empire were subjected to the whims and caprices of the emperor and his representative in this place.


I will give you an example.

In the height of transatlantic slave trade, Benin had banned slavery in core Benin area. But vassal lords insisted on their own internal freedom to trade in their own people. The Oba had to accept. A French slave trader made an interesting observation then. Travelling from Benin City to the port of Ughoton (Gwatto) near Benin, he found along the route about 100 slaves displayed for sale. Like you would see bags of garri or pineapples along Nigerian highways today. In his journal he wrote that all the slaves and slave traders were Yoruba, Igbo and other tribes. That Benin people were banned from taking part in slave trade. Cannot be sold or sell another person.
Today, Benin is one of the few tribes in Southern Nigeria without a slave diaspora. Aside a few raided in border areas by criminal syndicates then.
The smartest way to build an empire was to persuade if possible by projecting military might (intimidate a bit, stick & carrot) then fight if inevitable.

-----

So Benin had swathes of land in Eastern Yourbaland, parts of Ijebu country to access Lagos by land. These were considered different lands then. NOT one Yorubaland as it is now. The level of local autonomy depended on how the land came under control. Owo was highly autonomous for example. Despite being conquered by Benin, there had long been blood relationship between both royal houses, so terms were fairly generous. Even Yoruba historians agree on that generous terms.

Vassal lands did not always remain so. Many used any slight opportunity to try to wriggle out of it or just rebelled. Wars to quell rebellion were not uncommon. So no surprise that only war-like Obas like Oba Ewuare I (1440-1473), Oba Ozolua (1480-1504), Oba Esigie (1504-1547) & Oba Orhogbua (1547-1580, who took Lagos) made the most gains of territory. Lots of surviving Benin ceremonial plaques depicting the triumphant King returning from war were of Oba Esigie.

Sorry I digress a lot but necessary.

Bini did not have any 'swathes' but patches and pockets of lands mostly given or originally unoccupied. Please cite one paper proving Bini had any reach in Ijebu country. Ijebu traders/travellers may have had contact with Bini but Bini never occupied any patch of Ijebu. There were military skirmishes but Owo was never conquered by Bini; the traces of Bini we see in Owo today was because of an Owo prince who ran off to Bini and lived there for many years and upon ascending the throne brought Bini stuff with him and of course some type of relationship between Owo and Bini. This prince/king was Osogboye.

All of these imaginary Bini conquests are not corroborated anywhere in the history of these Yoruba towns you listed. Why does Bini history alone seem to be confined and find its own sources within its own enclave with no corroboration and affirmation anywhere. This is similar to the Izoduwa story which began with your last Oba's bruised ego during the western region days while the Portuguese records gotten from Oba Ozolua in the 15th century says otherwise.

Any ways, you may want to list out empires you're familiar with around the world, study them and see if Bini fit into the bill of what made these empires become regarded as 'empires'.

Enjoy the rest of your evening.

Dsov2016:


Idiot read well[b] benin sacked Eton alaye around 1820- 1840 . ado ekiti was founded by omumu[/b]. I know my history and you do not . a[b]do is the yoruba( akure) corruption of Edo[/b]. Intact this ur history you are quoting were are u from I know I am descended from the opposing side. When the people who know history tell u u say it is a lie and listen to perverted stories.
Paternally I am related by marriage to omumu and descended from ufeloro dynasty that can trace its lineage to oduduwa directly. I know am telling u

Uncle stop lying.

1. Efon Alaaye was never sacked by Bini.

2. Ado Ekiti was founded by Awamaro and Ewi who came from Ile-Ife

3. Ado, Iddo, Ago, Ibode, Ibudo all mean camp in Yoruba. In primordial times, Yoruba people called present day 'Edo' Ado which Bini folks corrupted to Edo but of course have managed to find history for it saying it was a slave's name.

Obaluf0n:


[s]a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority; especially: one having an emperor as chief of state

I'll get to various definitions of what an empire is and not waste any time on side comments.

- According to Michael Doyle, for instance, empire is 'a relationship, formal or informal, in which one state controls the effective political sovereignty of another political society’; ‘a system of interaction between two political entities, one of which, the dominant metropole, exerts political control over the internal and external policy – the effective sovereignty – of the other, the subordinate periphery’.

- Stephen Howe’s definition makes an attempt to combine the defining qualities of political hierarchy and cultural diversity: ‘an empire is a large, composite, multi-ethnic or multinational political unit, usually created by conquest, and divided between a dominant center and subordinate, sometimes far distant, peripheries.’

- a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority; especially: one having an emperor as chief of state.

See: https://www.princeton.edu/~pswpc/pdfs/scheidel/020601.pdf and
https://www.nthurston.k12.wa.us/cms/lib/WA01001371/Centricity/Domain/564/What%20is%20an%20Empire.pdf

I italicized the key components of each definition: great territorial extent, a large composite multi ethnic and multinational unit, control of other states by a power in the centre.

-- Did Oyo have a great territorial extent, yes; did Oyo have a large composite multi ethnic and multi national unit, yes; did Oyo exert control on other states by the power in the centre, yes.

-- Did Bini have a great territorial extent, no; did Bini have a large composite multi ethnic and multi national unit yes but not large; did Bini exert control on other states by the power in the centre, yes. Bini was never an empire in the true sense of it. Let us look at Lagos to begin with, Bini's presence was on a small patch of land and the awori were never conquered. Lagos history states that the Awori folks willingly gave that patch of land to the Bini soldier and it wasn't acquired by context - Bini on its patch of land was doing its thing which was to ensure of Bini sea traders/travellers more. In the Delta/Onitsha area, what operated was a case of Bini emigrants moving to other places in this region to assume political posts which created a kin-type connection with Bini. I do not know what operated in Akoko Edo but nevertheless, Bini's area of influence wasn't only meagre it was not an empire in any or true sense of it when juxtaposed with other numerous empires in Nigeria, Africa and all over the world.





That line is immaterial and played. One of my lecturers, a northerner, during my MA days played this card but to me it made and still makes no sense -- so Emire Sanusi mouthing it means nothing, many research papers local and foreign; as well as cultural realities point to something very different. A single nomenclature for a people does not mean they're similar or more unified than the next. Disabuse your mind from 'They saw themselves as related but different.' All major Yoruba towns and their appendage towns all know they're tied together by Ife and the replete cultural similarities shared across board. You probably need to read The Heritage of Oduduwa: Traditional History and Political Propaganda among the Yoruba Author(s): R. C. C. Law which expounded on Prof. Akinjogbin's 'ebi theory' of the Yoruba which your Bini kingdom a party to. You also need to review Samuel Johnson's History of Yoruba which described the practicality of this ebi theory with all Yoruba towns seeing themselves as one and Ife being the nucleus of their world which in turn led to the complete sacking of Owu town when it went against this socio-political system.

The Ekiti-Parapo wars which ignorant folks often cite as the proof of Yoruba's never being one was a war for balance of power. All towns, super and dependencies were all under the clutches of Oyo for centuries. The collapse of Oyo gave them freedom, something they've long lost and the rise of Ibadan trying to put them in the clutches of oppression and take away their freedom drove everyone up the wall and blocs were formed to ensure balance of power and put an end to any all powerful town rising to the point of controlling all Yoruba towns.

Oyo Yoruba was not standardized, we are presently NOT speaking/using Oyo Yoruba. You probably need to go to Oyo or Ibadan or Iseyin and any other Oyo enclave to hear how they speak and see if it is different from the national Yoruba we use or not. Standardized, yes. Standardized Oyo, No.

Please get rid of the thoughts of Yoruba folks never being one. What changed in 19th century was the spread of Yoruba nomenclature from being just an Oyo name to include all other towns -Ijebu, Egba, Ife, Ilesa, Ekiti and Ondo. Either we had/have the name or not, from Oyo to Egba, to Ilesa, to Ekiti to Ondo to Ijebu cultural affinities abound in excess and Ife still remains the nucleus of their world.




The emboldened clearly isn't a feature of an empire but a diplomatic gesture and agreement between two powers. Getting lots of freedom to operate internally isn't a feature of an empire, I'm sorry. This is what Bini's kingdom was based on and it doesn't fit the bill of how empire building and sustenance operated around the world. Kingdoms forming part of an empire were subjected to the whims and caprices of the emperor and his representative in this place.


I will give you an example.



-----




Bini did not have any 'swathes' but patches and pockets of lands mostly given or originally unoccupied. Please cite one paper proving Bini had any reach in Ijebu country. Ijebu traders/travellers may have had contact with Bini but Bini never occupied any patch of Ijebu. There were military skirmishes but Owo was never conquered by Bini; the traces of Bini we see in Owo today was because of an Owo prince who ran off to Bini and lived there for many years and upon ascending the throne brought Bini stuff with him and of course some type of relationship between Owo and Bini. This prince/king was Osogboye.

All of these imaginary Bini conquests are not corroborated anywhere in the history of these Yoruba towns you listed. Why does Bini history alone seem to be confined and find its own sources within its own enclave with no corroboration and affirmation anywhere. This is similar to the Izoduwa story which began with your last Oba's bruised ego during the western region days while the Portuguese records gotten from Oba Ozolua in the 15th century says otherwise.

Any ways, you may want to list out empires you're familiar with around the world, study them and see if Bini fit into the bill of what made these empires become regarded as 'empires'.

Enjoy the rest of your evening.
[/s]

TRASH AS USUAL...... LONG AND STINKY TRASH AS EXPECTED

Obaluf0n:


a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority; especially: one having an emperor as chief of state

I'll get to various definitions of what an empire is and not waste any time on side comments.

- According to Michael Doyle, for instance, empire is 'a relationship, formal or informal, in which one state controls the effective political sovereignty of another political society’; ‘a system of interaction between two political entities, one of which, the dominant metropole, exerts political control over the internal and external policy – the effective sovereignty – of the other, the subordinate periphery’.

- Stephen Howe’s definition makes an attempt to combine the defining qualities of political hierarchy and cultural diversity: ‘an empire is a large, composite, multi-ethnic or multinational political unit, usually created by conquest, and divided between a dominant center and subordinate, sometimes far distant, peripheries.’

- a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority; especially: one having an emperor as chief of state.

See: https://www.princeton.edu/~pswpc/pdfs/scheidel/020601.pdf and
https://www.nthurston.k12.wa.us/cms/lib/WA01001371/Centricity/Domain/564/What%20is%20an%20Empire.pdf

I italicized the key components of each definition: great territorial extent, a large composite multi ethnic and multinational unit, control of other states by a power in the centre.

-- Did Oyo have a great territorial extent, yes; did Oyo have a large composite multi ethnic and multi national unit, yes; did Oyo exert control on other states by the power in the centre, yes.

-- Did Bini have a great territorial extent, no; did Bini have a large composite multi ethnic and multi national unit yes but not large; did Bini exert control on other states by the power in the centre, yes. Bini was never an empire in the true sense of it. Let us look at Lagos to begin with, Bini's presence was on a small patch of land and the awori were never conquered. Lagos history states that the Awori folks willingly gave that patch of land to the Bini soldier and it wasn't acquired by context - Bini on its patch of land was doing its thing which was to ensure of Bini sea traders/travellers more. In the Delta/Onitsha area, what operated was a case of Bini emigrants moving to other places in this region to assume political posts which created a kin-type connection with Bini. I do not know what operated in Akoko Edo but nevertheless, Bini's area of influence wasn't only meagre it was not an empire in any or true sense of it when juxtaposed with other numerous empires in Nigeria, Africa and all over the world.





That line is immaterial and played. One of my lecturers, a northerner, during my MA days played this card but to me it made and still makes no sense -- so Emire Sanusi mouthing it means nothing, many research papers local and foreign; as well as cultural realities point to something very different. A single nomenclature for a people does not mean they're similar or more unified than the next. Disabuse your mind from 'They saw themselves as related but different.' All major Yoruba towns and their appendage towns all know they're tied together by Ife and the replete cultural similarities shared across board. You probably need to read The Heritage of Oduduwa: Traditional History and Political Propaganda among the Yoruba Author(s): R. C. C. Law which expounded on Prof. Akinjogbin's 'ebi theory' of the Yoruba which your Bini kingdom a party to. You also need to review Samuel Johnson's History of Yoruba which described the practicality of this ebi theory with all Yoruba towns seeing themselves as one and Ife being the nucleus of their world which in turn led to the complete sacking of Owu town when it went against this socio-political system.

The Ekiti-Parapo wars which ignorant folks often cite as the proof of Yoruba's never being one was a war for balance of power. All towns, super and dependencies were all under the clutches of Oyo for centuries. The collapse of Oyo gave them freedom, something they've long lost and the rise of Ibadan trying to put them in the clutches of oppression and take away their freedom drove everyone up the wall and blocs were formed to ensure balance of power and put an end to any all powerful town rising to the point of controlling all Yoruba towns.

Oyo Yoruba was not standardized, we are presently NOT speaking/using Oyo Yoruba. You probably need to go to Oyo or Ibadan or Iseyin and any other Oyo enclave to hear how they speak and see if it is different from the national Yoruba we use or not. Standardized, yes. Standardized Oyo, No.

Please get rid of the thoughts of Yoruba folks never being one. What changed in 19th century was the spread of Yoruba nomenclature from being just an Oyo name to include all other towns -Ijebu, Egba, Ife, Ilesa, Ekiti and Ondo. Either we had/have the name or not, from Oyo to Egba, to Ilesa, to Ekiti to Ondo to Ijebu cultural affinities abound in excess and Ife still remains the nucleus of their world.




The emboldened clearly isn't a feature of an empire but a diplomatic gesture and agreement between two powers. Getting lots of freedom to operate internally isn't a feature of an empire, I'm sorry. This is what Bini's kingdom was based on and it doesn't fit the bill of how empire building and sustenance operated around the world. Kingdoms forming part of an empire were subjected to the whims and caprices of the emperor and his representative in this place.


I will give you an example.



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Bini did not have any 'swathes' but patches and pockets of lands mostly given or originally unoccupied. Please cite one paper proving Bini had any reach in Ijebu country. Ijebu traders/travellers may have had contact with Bini but Bini never occupied any patch of Ijebu. There were military skirmishes but Owo was never conquered by Bini; the traces of Bini we see in Owo today was because of an Owo prince who ran off to Bini and lived there for many years and upon ascending the throne brought Bini stuff with him and of course some type of relationship between Owo and Bini. This prince/king was Osogboye.

All of these imaginary Bini conquests are not corroborated anywhere in the history of these Yoruba towns you listed. Why does Bini history alone seem to be confined and find its own sources within its own enclave with no corroboration and affirmation anywhere. This is similar to the Izoduwa story which began with your last Oba's bruised ego during the western region days while the Portuguese records gotten from Oba Ozolua in the 15th century says otherwise.

Any ways, you may want to list out empires you're familiar with around the world, study them and see if Bini fit into the bill of what made these empires become regarded as 'empires'.

Enjoy the rest of your evening.

God bless you. Egbon I no even get there time. Lol

I don tire for this nl bini warriors. They just decieve themselves. Please let them keep making themselves happy.

Op

Benin was the largest empire in Africa
it's wall stretched from ghana to Cameroon

ritababe:



you simply lack wisdom, or u didn't know Lagos was under benin before? which Lagos are u talking about?

Lol I am a true lagosian and Lagos was NEVER UNDER the benin. Stop smoking. My people have called akiolu to order. The monarch was bini and I am from that family. Today we are yorubas, we have always been part of the Yoruba nation. It is you people that lack common sense by denying your history and heritage.

Sandydayziz:
Anyday u want baby I'll take u dere

U just hw 2 burst my brain. Oya add me on bbm 5C3F0D87

aljharem:


God bless you. Egbon I no even get there time. Lol

I don tire for this nl bini warriors. They just decieve themselves. Please let them keep making themselves happy.

Op

Benin was the largest empire in Africa
it's wall stretched from ghana to Cameroon

Lol they are one very funny people whose history began with mid-western region.

I think it is even more funny that their version of history seem not to have any corroboration anywhere outside Bini. It is just them concocting tales, dishing them out, telling you it is all facts but sources can not be found anywhere else except in their Oba's mouth

Bros mo tire o! You have been defending Yoruba from Ibo attacks for years, nor give up now o. This Bini folks are a cake walk for you.

Bini 'Empire', Oyo 'Kingdom'