Preachers of the gospel have always insisted that everybody must be born again in order not to perish. But there are people who are just too good to hurt a fly. There are people who are gentle, nice, respectful, courteous, honest, truthful, caring, forgiving and generous. Must such people still be required to be born again? What will be the eternal destiny of such wonderful people if they 'do not "repent" and surrender their lives to Christ?'

Its not about what you do, its about who you are.

Your default Nature.

It can never stand in d presence of God.

Jeromejnr:
Its not about what you do, its about who you are.

Your default Nature.

It can never stand in d presence of God.

what is that default nature that can't stand god's presence?

branhampaul:
what is that default nature that can't stand god's presence?

The fallen nature.

The devilish nature. Reason you have to be born again In spirit.

Jeromejnr:


The fallen nature.

The devilish nature. Reason you have to be born again In spirit.

your god is responsible for it in the first place. he claims to be omniscience yet he created devil..

branhampaul:
your god is responsible for it in the first place. he claims to be omniscience yet he created devil..

He created Lucifer..not the devil.

Jeromejnr:

He created Lucifer..not the devil.

are they not the same?

branhampaul:
your god is responsible for it in the first place. he claims to be omniscience yet he created devil..

I think you are derailing this thread sir. My aim of bringing out this topic is not to doubt the existence of God, neither is it meant to blaspheme Him so you are on your own sir. Back to topic. Why is it still necessary for good and peaceful people to be born again to escape eternal damnation?

branhampaul:
are they not the same?

God created Lucifer, an Archangel who later turned evil thereby assuming the title, the devil.

UnchangeableGod:
Preachers of the gospel have always insisted that everybody must be born again in order not to perish. But there are people who are just too good to hurt a fly. There are people who are gentle, nice, respectful, courteous, honest, truthful, caring, forgiving and generous. Must such people still be required to be born again? What will be the eternal destiny of such wonderful people if they 'do not "repent" and surrender their lives to Christ?'

those people are already in heaven... with that kind of behavior.. they have created heaven for their minds.. they give and radiate positive energy.. they possess love.. at least to a great extent ...people who continue like that are sure to have a heavenly afterlife... any religion that tells you that you need to accept someone.. be it Jesus or Mohammad or Mithras... is lying...its all a setup for control... being born again is being born of love.. the kind of love Jesus stood for... salvation didn't depend on the invented nicene creed.. even though I'm not religious.. I'll leave you with some of the alleged words of Jesus himself

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

peace

branhampaul:
are they not the same?

Nope.

UnchangeableGod:
Preachers of the gospel have always insisted that everybody must be born again in order not to perish. But there are people who are just too good to hurt a fly. There are people who are gentle, nice, respectful, courteous, honest, truthful, caring, forgiving and generous. Must such people still be required to be born again? What will be the eternal destiny of such wonderful people if they 'do not "repent" and surrender their lives to Christ?'

our righteousness is as unfilthy rags before God's sight. No matter the morality we have it still can't please God cos nothing good dwells in our flesh.

We need an imputed righteousness which is only thru accepting Jesus Chris and His finished works at the cross. When you believe in Him and accept Him to be your Lord and Savior then you're already righteous in God's sight (2 Corinthians 5 vs 21)

Keep asking questions were you don't understand. thanks

UnchangeableGod:
Preachers of the gospel have always insisted that everybody must be born again in order not to perish. But there are people who are just too good to hurt a fly. There are people who are gentle, nice, respectful, courteous, honest, truthful, caring, forgiving and generous. Must such people still be required to be born again? What will be the eternal destiny of such wonderful people if they 'do not "repent" and surrender their lives to Christ?'

There is what I call SPIRITUAL POLITICS. The founders of beliefs play this on their followers. They are after numbers.

OtemAtum:

There is what I call SPIRITUAL POLITICS. The founders of beliefs play this on their followers. They are after numbers.

And what do you think is wrong with this postulation by preachers sir? Is it not the scriptural truth?

GrandFinale2017:
our righteousness is as unfilthy rags before God's sight. No matter the morality we have it still can't please God cos nothing good dwells in our flesh.

We need an imputed righteousness which is only thru accepting Jesus Chris and His finished works at the cross. When you believe in Him and accept Him to be your Lord and Savior then you're already righteous in God's sight (2 Corinthians 5 vs 21)

Keep asking questions were you don't understand. thanks

Well said.

Wilgrea7:


those people are already in heaven... with that kind of behavior.. they have created heaven for their minds.. they give and radiate positive energy.. they possess love.. at least to a great extent ...people who continue like that are sure to have a heavenly afterlife... any religion that tells you that you need to accept someone.. be it Jesus or Mohammad or Mithras... is lying...its all a setup for control... being born again is being born of love.. the kind of love Jesus stood for... salvation didn't depend on the invented nicene creed.. even though I'm not religious.. I'll leave you with some of the alleged words of Jesus himself

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

peace

OK. How about these "But we are all as an unclean thing and all our righteousnesses is as filthy rags.......(Isaiah 64:6); Ephesians 2:8-13; Titus 3:5-8; and the very words of Christ Himself "......for without me you can do nothing" (John 15:4). I believe we should balance the Scriptures. What I deduce is that our good works though desirable, cannot on their own save anyone, only genuine repentance and faith in Christ can. But after we are saved, we cannot but live right as a consequence of our conversion - (Ephesians 2:10; Titus 3:. Thanks.

Wilgrea7:


those people are already in heaven... with that kind of behavior.. they have created heaven for their minds.. they give and radiate positive energy.. they possess love.. at least to a great extent ...people who continue like that are sure to have a heavenly afterlife... any religion that tells you that you need to accept someone.. be it Jesus or Mohammad or Mithras... is lying...its all a setup for control... being born again is being born of love.. the kind of love Jesus stood for... salvation didn't depend on the invented nicene creed.. even though I'm not religious.. I'll leave you with some of the alleged words of Jesus himself

Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

peace

So you mean to say that 'Jesus' lied when he said 'Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.' And 'no man comes to the father except through me.'

UnchangeableGod:
OK. How about these "But we are all as an unclean thing and all our righteousnesses is as filthy rags.......(Isaiah 64:6);

self righteousness is pride... plus... look at the people Isaiah was referring to.. Israel.. not you and me in Africa.. Israel had laws.. the laws had their flaws.. Jesus gave them a law that covers everything... and that was love

Ephesians 2:8-13; Titus 3:5-8; and the very words of Christ Himself "

i don't follow Paul

for without me you can do nothing" (John 15:4). I believe we should balance the Scriptures. What I deduce is that our good works though desirable, cannot on their own save anyone, only genuine repentance and faith in Christ can. But after we are saved, we cannot but live right as a consequence of our conversion - (Ephesians 2:10; Titus 3:. Thanks.

I'm not here to prove that the scriptures are in harmony.. abiding in Jesus means obeying his commandments.. not “believing in him".. he brought the commandments from God and gave to the Israelites.. Jesus is divine but did not go around telling people that his divinity was the key to salvation...if he did, then why would he tell Peter not to tell anyone that he was the Christ?.. majority of the scriptures referring to Jesus (not just the rcc handpicked ones) portray Jesus as being somewhat divine or above human but did not base salvation on him.. John is the only gospel that emphasizes divinity.. ever wonder why?

OtemAtum:


So you mean to say that 'Jesus' lied when he said 'Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.' And 'no man comes to the father except through me.'

two things..

1. apart from the claim of a random author that “jesus said"... you'll need extra proof that Jesus said those EXACT words.. so before you term anyone a liar then you need to prove that

2. abiding in Jesus.. is following his commandments sent from God..

Wilgrea7:


two things..

1. apart from the claim of a random author that “jesus said"... you'll need extra proof that Jesus said those EXACT words.. so before you term anyone a liar then you need to prove that

2. abiding in Jesus.. is following his commandments sent from God..

So u don't believe the four synoptic gospels or what

So how do we know that abiding in jesus means following h is commandments when we are not hearing it directly from him but from you?

OtemAtum:


So u don't believe the four synoptic gospels or what

So how do we know that abiding in jesus means following h is commandments when we are not hearing it directly from him but from you?

the synoptic Gospels are not the only sources on the life of Jesus.. there are tons of other letters attributed to him... reading about their histories, authors and causes of the testimonies will give you a clearer picture of who Jesus was... i don't rely on only the four gospels... especially with the rumor of the rcc editing a few things

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

like i said earlier .. reading genuine gospels attributed to him will give you a clearer picture... i do not deny the fact that individual authors tend to put a little bias in their writings.. but a wide scope will bring you closer to the picture.. its not about knowing if that statement was made by him.. although its important.. its not the main point.. the big picture is to get the main point of his message

Wilgrea7:

self righteousness is pride... plus... look at the people Isaiah was referring to.. Israel.. not you and me in Africa.. Israel had laws.. the laws had their flaws.. Jesus gave them a law that covers everything... and that was love


i don't follow Paul



I'm not here to prove that the scriptures are in harmony.. abiding in Jesus means obeying his commandments.. not “believing in him".. he brought the commandments from God and gave to the Israelites.. Jesus is divine but did not go around telling people that his divinity was the key to salvation...if he did, then why would he tell Peter not to tell anyone that he was the Christ?.. majority of the scriptures referring to Jesus (not just the rcc handpicked ones) portray Jesus as being somewhat divine or above human but did not base salvation on him.. John is the only gospel that emphasizes divinity.. ever wonder why?

You are entitled to your opinion sir. All Scriptures is inspired and true so needless to compare John with Mark, Luke or Ephesians (2nd Timothy 3:16). Christ is divine, there is no two ways about that and it is written all over the Scriptures but that is not the issue. Salvation from sin is not based on His divinity but on the fact that a ransom (shedding of blood) must be paid for remission of sin (Hebrews 9:22; 10:4,10,12,18). Christ became and remains the only Perfect and Permanent Substitute for for sinful humanity and therefore repentance and believing on Him is required for salvation. Believing on the Substitute and Saviour is a testament to the fact that my salvation is not based on my good works or moral standing. I have nothing to boast of (Ephesians 2:9). Christ paid it all. Any 'salvation' outside Christ leads to somewhere else but definitely not God's heaven, the place Christ has gone to prepare for us(John 14:1-3) Thanks.

Wilgrea7:


the synoptic Gospels are not the only sources on the life of Jesus.. there are tons of other letters attributed to him... reading about their histories, authors and causes of the testimonies will give you a clearer picture of who Jesus was... i don't rely on only the four gospels... especially with the rumor of the rcc editing a few things

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

like i said earlier .. reading genuine gospels attributed to him will give you a clearer picture... i do not deny the fact that individual authors tend to put a little bias in their writings.. but a wide scope will bring you closer to the picture.. its not about knowing if that statement was made by him.. although its important.. its not the main point.. the big picture is to get the main point of his message

So you are implying that some authors of the Bible(John in particular) added to, subtracted from or modified what Christ said. No sir, I would rather go with John than with you (a faceless fellow whose motives I do not know). Besides, the authors of the Scriptures as well as those who put them together into the Book (the holy Bible) know the import of Duetronomy 4:2 and Revelation 22:18,19). Thanks.

Wilgrea7:


the synoptic Gospels are not the only sources on the life of Jesus.. there are tons of other letters attributed to him... reading about their histories, authors and causes of the testimonies will give you a clearer picture of who Jesus was... i don't rely on only the four gospels... especially with the rumor of the rcc editing a few things

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

like i said earlier .. reading genuine gospels attributed to him will give you a clearer picture... i do not deny the fact that individual authors tend to put a little bias in their writings.. but a wide scope will bring you closer to the picture.. its not about knowing if that statement was made by him.. although its important.. its not the main point.. the big picture is to get the main point of his message

Oh, I'll like to read what jesus said in first person singular. That's the only one we can trust. Else, it becomes a possibility to classify this jesus a fictitious hero invented by some mischievous folks.

Either way, I know who are real and who are not

Because Jesus is the way, the truth and life. He is the only way and all your self righteousness can't take you to heaven.

Amberon11:
Because Jesus is the way, the truth and life.

Jesus never existed! or can you counter what I just said?.

He is the only way and all your self righteousness can't take you to heaven.

Where is heaven located? which of the heaven, islam or christain own?

OtemAtum:


Oh, I'll like to read what jesus said in first person singular. That's the only one we can trust. Else, it becomes a possibility to classify this jesus a fictitious hero invented by some mischievous folks.

Either way, I know who are real and who are not

for the fact something wrong was said in someone's name does not make the person non existent... you are entitled to your beliefs

Wilgrea7:


for the fact something wrong was said in someone's name does not make the person non existent... you are entitled to your beliefs

it's true, everybody is entitled to his belief. And those who know are entitled to their knowledge too.

UnchangeableGod:
You are entitled to your opinion sir. All Scriptures is inspired and true so needless to compare John with Mark, Luke or Ephesians (2nd Timothy 3:16). Christ is divine, there is no two ways about that and it is written all over the Scriptures but that is not the issue.

i would've loved to butress your points.. but i don't want to derail this thread.. maybe you can create another thread for these new discussions and mention me.. I'll reply to the last statement of your post because it relates to the thread

Salvation from sin is not based on His divinity but on the fact that a ransom (shedding of blood) must be paid for remission of sin (Hebrews 9:22; 10:4,10,12,18).

once again.. i don't follow paul... and no... shedding of blood is not needed for the remission of sins.. the Israelites may have done rituals.. but that isn't what Jesus Christ came to establish.. at times i still wonder what we missed that made the Jesus' version of God somewhat different from that of the old testament.. Jesus said “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us... i sort of missed the part requiring you to spill goat blood

Christ became and remains the only Perfect and Permanent Substitute for for sinful humanity and therefore repentance and believing on Him
. Believing on the Substitute and Saviour is a testament to the fact that my salvation is not based on my good works or moral standing.

believing on a substitute for your sins is laziness.. Jesus didn't come to be a substitute for our mess.. he came to show Israel how to change that nature that caused sin.. his laws can also be applied on a universal scale.. like i said before.. the law had its flaws.. humans or at least the Israelites then had a certain nature that made laws ineffective.. no matter how many laws they were given.. their nature was what you could classify as “sinful".. laws didn't change that nature.. it just restricted them from certain acts.. someone with the nature of love doesn't need a death penalty to tell him that killing the innocent is wrong... funny thing.. the Jews didn't believe in hell

I have nothing to boast of (Ephesians 2:9). Christ paid it all. Any 'salvation' outside Christ leads to somewhere else but definitely not God's heaven, the place Christ has gone to prepare for us(John 14:1-3) Thanks.

the audience of Jesus were Jews.. different religions have different views of heaven.. so you would be going to the hindu hell as much as a hindu would be going to your hell.. don't force everything into one worldview with your religion as the true one without any universal reason.. salvation.. from that sinful nature is gotten by obeying the commandments of God through Christ.. which is love... people can be raised in love.. raised in the commandments.. their souls would radiate positive energy and they would be creating heaven for their souls...

Wilgrea7:


i would've loved to butress your points.. but i don't want to derail this thread.. maybe you can create another thread for these new discussions and mention me.. I'll reply to the last statement of your post because it relates to the thread


once again.. i don't follow paul... and no... shedding of blood is not needed for the remission of sins.. the Israelites may have done rituals.. but that isn't what Jesus Christ came to establish.. at times i still wonder what we missed that made the Jesus' version of God somewhat different from that of the old testament.. Jesus said “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us... i sort of missed the part requiring you to spill goat blood


believing on a substitute for your sins is laziness.. Jesus didn't come to be a substitute for our mess.. he came to show Israel how to change that nature that caused sin.. his laws can also be applied on a universal scale.. like i said before.. the law had its flaws.. humans or at least the Israelites then had a certain nature that made laws ineffective.. no matter how many laws they were given.. their nature was what you could classify as “sinful".. laws didn't change that nature.. it just restricted them from certain acts.. someone with the nature of love doesn't need a death penalty to tell him that killing the innocent is wrong... funny thing.. the Jews didn't believe in hell



the audience of Jesus were Jews.. different religions have different views of heaven.. so you would be going to the hindu hell as much as a hindu would be going to your hell.. don't force everything into one worldview with your religion as the true one without any universal reason.. salvation.. from that sinful nature is gotten by obeying the commandments of God through Christ.. which is love... people can be raised in love.. raised in the commandments.. their souls would radiate positive energy and they would be creating heaven for their souls...

Well, I see I am discussing with an alien to my Christian faith. I shouldn't have. We are two parallel lines. Bye.

Did Islam ir christianity tell you there are seperate heavens?

And historians have repeatedly that Jesus walked the earth so pls look for something else to say.

branhampaul:
Jesus never existed! or can you counter what I just said?. Where is heaven located? which of the heaven, islam or christain own?

Amberon11:
Did Islam ir christianity tell you there are seperate heavens?

so if they 're the same.. why diff. religions with diff. evil book saying diff. stories.

And historians have repeatedly that Jesus walked the earth so pls look for something else to say.

an interested in this; mention the historian?