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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? (1319 Views)
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Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by UnchangeableGod: 12:14pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
Preachers of the gospel have always insisted that everybody must be born again in order not to perish. But there are people who are just too good to hurt a fly. There are people who are gentle, nice, respectful, courteous, honest, truthful, caring, forgiving and generous. Must such people still be required to be born again? What will be the eternal destiny of such wonderful people if they 'do not "repent" and surrender their lives to Christ?' |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by Jeromejnr(m): 1:01pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
Its not about what you do, its about who you are. Your default Nature. It can never stand in d presence of God. |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by branhampaul: 3:28pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
Jeromejnr:what is that default nature that can't stand god's presence? |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by Jeromejnr(m): 6:21pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
branhampaul: The fallen nature. The devilish nature. Reason you have to be born again In spirit. 1 Like |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by branhampaul: 6:33pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
Jeromejnr:your god is responsible for it in the first place. he claims to be omniscience yet he created devil.. 1 Like |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by Jeromejnr(m): 6:57pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
branhampaul: He created Lucifer..not the devil. 1 Like |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by branhampaul: 8:39pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
Jeromejnr:are they not the same? |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by UnchangeableGod: 9:48pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
branhampaul:I think you are derailing this thread sir. My aim of bringing out this topic is not to doubt the existence of God, neither is it meant to blaspheme Him so you are on your own sir. Back to topic. Why is it still necessary for good and peaceful people to be born again to escape eternal damnation? 1 Like |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by UnchangeableGod: 9:51pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
branhampaul:God created Lucifer, an Archangel who later turned evil thereby assuming the title, the devil. 1 Like |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by Wilgrea7(m): 10:49pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
UnchangeableGod: those people are already in heaven... with that kind of behavior.. they have created heaven for their minds.. they give and radiate positive energy.. they possess love.. at least to a great extent ...people who continue like that are sure to have a heavenly afterlife... any religion that tells you that you need to accept someone.. be it Jesus or Mohammad or Mithras... is lying...its all a setup for control... being born again is being born of love.. the kind of love Jesus stood for... salvation didn't depend on the invented nicene creed.. even though I'm not religious.. I'll leave you with some of the alleged words of Jesus himself Luke 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. peace |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by Jeromejnr(m): 10:58pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
branhampaul: Nope. |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by Nobody: 11:39pm On Jul 18, 2017 |
UnchangeableGod:our righteousness is as unfilthy rags before God's sight. No matter the morality we have it still can't please God cos nothing good dwells in our flesh. We need an imputed righteousness which is only thru accepting Jesus Chris and His finished works at the cross. When you believe in Him and accept Him to be your Lord and Savior then you're already righteous in God's sight (2 Corinthians 5 vs 21) Keep asking questions were you don't understand. thanks 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by OtemAtum: 6:49am On Jul 19, 2017 |
UnchangeableGod:There is what I call SPIRITUAL POLITICS. The founders of beliefs play this on their followers. They are after numbers. |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by UnchangeableGod: 9:18am On Jul 19, 2017 |
OtemAtum:And what do you think is wrong with this postulation by preachers sir? Is it not the scriptural truth? |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by UnchangeableGod: 9:20am On Jul 19, 2017 |
GrandFinale2017:Well said. |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by UnchangeableGod: 9:44am On Jul 19, 2017 |
Wilgrea7:OK. How about these "But we are all as an unclean thing and all our righteousnesses is as filthy rags.......(Isaiah 64:6); Ephesians 2:8-13; Titus 3:5-8; and the very words of Christ Himself "......for without me you can do nothing" (John 15:4). I believe we should balance the Scriptures. What I deduce is that our good works though desirable, cannot on their own save anyone, only genuine repentance and faith in Christ can. But after we are saved, we cannot but live right as a consequence of our conversion - (Ephesians 2:10; Titus 3: ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by OtemAtum: 10:38am On Jul 19, 2017 |
Wilgrea7: So you mean to say that 'Jesus' lied when he said 'Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.' And 'no man comes to the father except through me.' |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by Wilgrea7(m): 12:19pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
UnchangeableGod:self righteousness is pride... plus... look at the people Isaiah was referring to.. Israel.. not you and me in Africa.. Israel had laws.. the laws had their flaws.. Jesus gave them a law that covers everything... and that was love Ephesians 2:8-13; Titus 3:5-8; and the very words of Christ Himself "i don't follow Paul for without me you can do nothing" (John 15:4). I believe we should balance the Scriptures. What I deduce is that our good works though desirable, cannot on their own save anyone, only genuine repentance and faith in Christ can. But after we are saved, we cannot but live right as a consequence of our conversion - (Ephesians 2:10; Titus 3: I'm not here to prove that the scriptures are in harmony.. abiding in Jesus means obeying his commandments.. not “believing in him".. he brought the commandments from God and gave to the Israelites.. Jesus is divine but did not go around telling people that his divinity was the key to salvation...if he did, then why would he tell Peter not to tell anyone that he was the Christ?.. majority of the scriptures referring to Jesus (not just the rcc handpicked ones) portray Jesus as being somewhat divine or above human but did not base salvation on him.. John is the only gospel that emphasizes divinity.. ever wonder why? |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by Wilgrea7(m): 12:21pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
OtemAtum: two things.. 1. apart from the claim of a random author that “jesus said"... you'll need extra proof that Jesus said those EXACT words.. so before you term anyone a liar then you need to prove that 2. abiding in Jesus.. is following his commandments sent from God.. |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by OtemAtum: 12:25pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
Wilgrea7: So u don't believe the four synoptic gospels or what ![]() So how do we know that abiding in jesus means following h is commandments when we are not hearing it directly from him but from you? |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by Wilgrea7(m): 1:53pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
OtemAtum: the synoptic Gospels are not the only sources on the life of Jesus.. there are tons of other letters attributed to him... reading about their histories, authors and causes of the testimonies will give you a clearer picture of who Jesus was... i don't rely on only the four gospels... especially with the rumor of the rcc editing a few things John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. like i said earlier .. reading genuine gospels attributed to him will give you a clearer picture... i do not deny the fact that individual authors tend to put a little bias in their writings.. but a wide scope will bring you closer to the picture.. its not about knowing if that statement was made by him.. although its important.. its not the main point.. the big picture is to get the main point of his message |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by UnchangeableGod: 2:37pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
Wilgrea7:You are entitled to your opinion sir. All Scriptures is inspired and true so needless to compare John with Mark, Luke or Ephesians (2nd Timothy 3:16). Christ is divine, there is no two ways about that and it is written all over the Scriptures but that is not the issue. Salvation from sin is not based on His divinity but on the fact that a ransom (shedding of blood) must be paid for remission of sin (Hebrews 9:22; 10:4,10,12,18). Christ became and remains the only Perfect and Permanent Substitute for for sinful humanity and therefore repentance and believing on Him is required for salvation. Believing on the Substitute and Saviour is a testament to the fact that my salvation is not based on my good works or moral standing. I have nothing to boast of (Ephesians 2:9). Christ paid it all. Any 'salvation' outside Christ leads to somewhere else but definitely not God's heaven, the place Christ has gone to prepare for us(John 14:1-3) Thanks. |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by UnchangeableGod: 3:07pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
Wilgrea7:So you are implying that some authors of the Bible(John in particular) added to, subtracted from or modified what Christ said. No sir, I would rather go with John than with you (a faceless fellow whose motives I do not know). Besides, the authors of the Scriptures as well as those who put them together into the Book (the holy Bible) know the import of Duetronomy 4:2 and Revelation 22:18,19). Thanks. |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by OtemAtum: 3:17pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
Wilgrea7: Oh, I'll like to read what jesus said in first person singular. That's the only one we can trust. Else, it becomes a possibility to classify this jesus a fictitious hero invented by some mischievous folks. Either way, I know who are real and who are not ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by Amberon11: 4:06pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
Because Jesus is the way, the truth and life. He is the only way and all your self righteousness can't take you to heaven. |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by branhampaul: 4:15pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
Amberon11:Jesus never existed! or can you counter what I just said?. He is the only way and all your self righteousness can't take you to heaven.Where is heaven located? which of the heaven, islam or christain own? |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by Wilgrea7(m): 5:54pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
OtemAtum: for the fact something wrong was said in someone's name does not make the person non existent... you are entitled to your beliefs |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by OtemAtum: 6:41pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
Wilgrea7:it's true, everybody is entitled to his belief. And those who know are entitled to their knowledge too. ![]() |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by Wilgrea7(m): 6:42pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
UnchangeableGod: i would've loved to butress your points.. but i don't want to derail this thread.. maybe you can create another thread for these new discussions and mention me.. I'll reply to the last statement of your post because it relates to the thread Salvation from sin is not based on His divinity but on the fact that a ransom (shedding of blood) must be paid for remission of sin (Hebrews 9:22; 10:4,10,12,18).once again.. i don't follow paul... and no... shedding of blood is not needed for the remission of sins.. the Israelites may have done rituals.. but that isn't what Jesus Christ came to establish.. at times i still wonder what we missed that made the Jesus' version of God somewhat different from that of the old testament.. Jesus said “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us... i sort of missed the part requiring you to spill goat blood Christ became and remains the only Perfect and Permanent Substitute for for sinful humanity and therefore repentance and believing on Himbelieving on a substitute for your sins is laziness.. Jesus didn't come to be a substitute for our mess.. he came to show Israel how to change that nature that caused sin.. his laws can also be applied on a universal scale.. like i said before.. the law had its flaws.. humans or at least the Israelites then had a certain nature that made laws ineffective.. no matter how many laws they were given.. their nature was what you could classify as “sinful".. laws didn't change that nature.. it just restricted them from certain acts.. someone with the nature of love doesn't need a death penalty to tell him that killing the innocent is wrong... funny thing.. the Jews didn't believe in hell I have nothing to boast of (Ephesians 2:9). Christ paid it all. Any 'salvation' outside Christ leads to somewhere else but definitely not God's heaven, the place Christ has gone to prepare for us(John 14:1-3) Thanks. the audience of Jesus were Jews.. different religions have different views of heaven.. so you would be going to the hindu hell as much as a hindu would be going to your hell.. don't force everything into one worldview with your religion as the true one without any universal reason.. salvation.. from that sinful nature is gotten by obeying the commandments of God through Christ.. which is love... people can be raised in love.. raised in the commandments.. their souls would radiate positive energy and they would be creating heaven for their souls... |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by UnchangeableGod: 8:14pm On Jul 19, 2017 |
Wilgrea7:Well, I see I am discussing with an alien to my Christian faith. I shouldn't have. We are two parallel lines. Bye. |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by Amberon11: 6:00am On Jul 20, 2017 |
Did Islam ir christianity tell you there are seperate heavens? And historians have repeatedly that Jesus walked the earth so pls look for something else to say. branhampaul: |
Re: Why Are Good People Required To Be Born Again? by branhampaul: 6:49am On Jul 20, 2017 |
Amberon11:so if they 're the same.. why diff. religions with diff. evil book saying diff. stories. And historians have repeatedly that Jesus walked the earth so pls look for something else to say.an interested in this; mention the historian? |
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