Mtcheeeeeww

Great work OP, baarakaLLaahu feek.
Al-milani what a name!!!

# Interesting.

* The author you copy-pasted referred to Ali Ibn Musa ar-Rida, as Imam of the Ahl al-Bayt (of his era) and Zaydi Shia.

1. Being an Imam of Ahl al-Bayt, he is qualified to receive alaih salam, in fact, you see sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim and many others using the same acronym for his fathers Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Fatima, Hassan, Hussein, Ali Ibn Hussein zaynul abideen.


2. Being an Imam of Zaydi Shia, according to this author, destroyed what you try to smuggled in that he was an "Imam of Sunni (Sunnah) creed".


* I want to give you the opportunity to go and read about the Zaydiyyah (a branch of shia established by Zayd Ibn Ali b. al-Hussein b. Ali b. Abi Talib).


* Note, the only major thing in Zaydi Shia that made Sunni tolerate them is the fact that they "recognised and uphold" the khilafah of Abu Bakr and Umar. However, Zaydi still maintained that Ali was better than them, which is actually what made them Shi'a. This (recognition of Abu Bakr and Umar) was the political strategy that Zayd Ibn Ali used to win people over while he was trying to become the Imam as against his brother, Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn Hussein Ibn Ali Ibn Abi Talib, al-Baqir.


* Zaydi creed do not believe in the isma (infallibility) of the Imams of Ahl al-Bayt but believe only the Imams from Ahl al-Bayt via the lineage of Fatima have the right to Khilafah.


# Ascribing Imam Ali Ibn Musa ar-Ridah to Zaydi Shi'a is saying he was from the sect of rebels. Being Rebel and supporting rebels against the "Islamic government" according to Sunni, is a great offence, ways of the Khawarij.

Sheik Ibn Taymiyyah writes:

"But the word 'Rafidha' (rejecters) was first used when they rejected (rafadu) Zayd b. Ali b. al-Hussein during the Khilafah of Hisham...


I say: The correct opinion is that they were named Rafidha when they rejected Zaydi b. Ali b. al-Hussein b. Ali b. Abi Talib when he rebelled in Kufah during the days of Hisham b. Abd al-Malik"


3. HAVE YOU EVER ASK YOURSELF WHY?

If your source recognised Ali Ibn Musa ar-Ridha as Imam, from the chiefs and scholars of Ahl al-Bayt, why was there no single hadith or fiqh ruling from him (in any Sunni source of knowledge book), and from his fathers, Musa Ibn Jafar al-Kazim, Jafar Ibn Muhammad as-Sadiq? Bukhari the alleged author of sahih Mukhtasar especially lived in the era of these Imams of the Ahl al-Bayt.


# Sheik Ibn Taymiyyah proudly writes:


The Rāfiḍī said: “As for the Mālikīs, they took their knowledge from him (i.e. ‘Alī) and from his (i.e. ‘Alī’s) offspring.”


The answer is that there is an apparent lie here. This is Muwaṭṭā of Mālik. What is recorded in it from him (i.e. ‘Alī) or any of his offspring is VERY LITTLE. Most of what is in it is from other than them. There are nine aḥādīth from Ja’far (al-Ṣādiq) in it, and Mālik did not record from ANY of his (i.e. ‘Alī’s) offspring except from Ja’far. This is also the case with what is recorded in the Ṣaḥīḥ books, the Sunan books, and the Musnad books. What is recorded in them from his (i.e. ‘Alī’s) offspring is little. The generality of what is recorded in them is from others.


# Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah still has more words about the Ahl al-Bayt:

The early ones among them, such as ‘Alī b. al-Ḥusayn (Zayn al-‘Ābidīn) and his son, Abū Ja’far (al-Bāqir), and his son, Ja’far b. Muhammad (al-Ṣādiq), a known FRACTION of knowledge was transmitted from them. However, what is recorded from other than them is far, far more than that. As for those after them (from the Ahl al-Bayt), the knowledge that was taken from them was VERY LITTLE


# More to come in sha Allah as you continue your copy paste.

Demmzy15:


Ahmad b. Khalid al-Dhihli (major Persian Sunni scholar and muhaddith of the 2nd century AH) said: “I prayed behind ‘Ali al-Rida in Nishabur (Khorasan, modern day Iran) when he recited the Basmalah of each Surah out loud.”[Siyar ‘alam al-Nubala’ by al-Dhahabi]

(Reciting the Basmalah out loud is an opinion held by many of the Salaf and Sunni scholars throughout history, in fact it is the position of the Shafi’is. Even those who do not recite it out loud don’t deem it as a bid’ah, they merely argue that the Prophet recited it mostly silent and sometimes out loud.

# Reciting Basmala of every sura?!

# If it is that easy in Sunnism as the OP want us to believe, it would have been good. However, here are two Sunni thoughts:

* Basmala is not a verse (part of Qur'an)

* Basmala is a verse (part of Qur'an)

In both view of Sunnis, anyone you adhere to is Tahrif (distortion) of the Quran, as both ruled against each other.
www.nairaland.com/3083525/what-view-basmala-bismillah-rahman


# Here's Ali Ibn Musa ar-Rida reciting aloud Basmala of every sura in Salat. Sunni especially the Salafi don't practice this because according to their shuyukh, Basmala is not a verse of the Quran. Yet, they want to claim Ali Ibn Musa ar-Rida as one of their own.

Demmzy15:

Interesting isn’t it? It is established that his father gave his children names that are strongly hated by Shia, in fact you’ll hardly will find any Shia – scholar and layman alike – who carries the following names (all children of al-Rida’s father, Musa al-Kadhim):

# Name is not the problem for the Shia. Personality to whom it was named after is the point.

# You can name your child Abdul Qadr. But what was your intention? Did you name after the attributes of Allah, or after the popular Sufi Imam Abdul Qadr al-Jilani? It will be stupid to assume that every Abdul Qadr is named after each of the two.


# The names Abu Bakr (an alias not a name), Umar, Uthman, Mu'awiyah, Aisha, Hafsa are beautiful names that many bear them during and after the time of Nabi. Many Shia bear the name too. However, the persons of Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Quhafah, Umar Ibn al-Khattab, Uthman Ibn Affan, Mu'awiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan, Aisha bint Abi Bakr and Hafsa bint Umar were questionable individuals in the opinion of Shia. It is not their name shia have problem with, but their personalities.


# It is recorded in several books of hadith and history of the Sunni that in Syria during the khilafah of Mu'awiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan, and other Umayyad after him, the names of Ahl al-Bayt like Ali (especially), Hassan, Hussein were forbidden for people to name their children after. In fact a man purposely named his sons those names so that people could remember "Ali, or Hassan or Hussein" and curse them.

# I can see you still have a lots to copy paste from where you are copying:
https://gift2shias.com/2016/09/01/ali-b-musa-al-rida-the-trustworthy-imam-free-and-innocent-of-the-rafidah/

# I read some interesting parts there. Am seriously waiting.

AlBaqir:
# Interesting.

* The author you copy-pasted referred to Ali Ibn Musa ar-Rida, as Imam of the Ahl al-Bayt (of his era) and Zaydi Shia.

First of all, I clearly pasted the author's name at the beginning of the article. So don't make it look as if you've accomplished something big!

Your problem is, you lie and twist things and think we're fools or dummies. The author clearly stated: Imam al-Rida is highly respected by Sunni scholars (as righteous scholar and Imam from the Imams of the Ahl al-Bayt of the Salaf era) and Zaydi Shias alike

Notice the what's in the parenthesis!

1. Being an Imam of Ahl al-Bayt, he is qualified to receive alaih salam, in fact, you see sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim and many others using the same acronym for his fathers Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Fatima, Hassan, Hussein, Ali Ibn Hussein zaynul abideen.

Oh sorry!!! Hope you know I can also say regarding Abubakr(Alayhi Salam), Umar(Alayhim Salam), Uthman (Alayhim Salam), Ibn Abbaas(Alayhim Salam), Mu'awiyah (Alayhim Salam) and finally Imam Ali Al Rida (Alayhim Salam).

**shines his ewedu infested teeth**

2. Being an Imam of Zaydi Shia, according to this author, destroyed what you try to smuggled in that he was an "Imam of Sunni (Sunnah) creed".

Can you show us where the author categorically stated he's an Imam of Zaydis?

* Zaydi creed do not believe in the isma (infallibility) of the Imams of Ahl al-Bayt but believe only the Imams from Ahl al-Bayt via the lineage of Fatima have the right to Khilafah.

# Ascribing Imam Ali Ibn Musa ar-Ridah to Zaydi Shi'a is saying he was from the sect of rebels . Being Rebel and supporting rebels against the "Islamic government" according to Sunni, is a great offence, ways of the Khawarij.

And according to Twelver Shi'a logic Imam Zayd must have been a liberator for standing up against rulers who oppressed the Ahl Bayt, abi I lie ni? Mind you, the Twelvers rejected him not because he fought but because he refused to curse the Sheikhains!

Please I beg you, nobody is talking about Zaydis here, they're all over different forums go and meet them there. Last time I checked, none of Twelvers can stand a Zaydi in an intellectual discourse.

3. HAVE YOU EVER ASK YOURSELF WHY?

No need to spout any venom.

Sunnis follow the Ahl Bayt, from the wives of the Prophet to the family of Abbas and Aqeel to Ali and his children including Hassan, Hussain, Muhammad Hannafiyyah, etc. Some members of the Ahl Bayt were known teachers of great Sunnis. As you pointed out, Sunnis benefitted from them so I don't know why you must beat your chest about that!

Apart from the four major Sunni madhabs, there were others(Laythi, Thawri, etc) but no one almost follows them but that doesn't mean we don't respect the Imams of those Madhabs.

AlBaqir:

# Reciting Basmala of every sura?!

Mr. Man did you read this part of the article before plastering amala on this thread?

(Reciting the Basmalah out loud is an opinion held by many of the Salaf and Sunni scholars throughout history, in fact it is the position of the Shafi’is. Even those who do not recite it out loud don’t deem it as a bid’ah, they merely argue that the Prophet recited it mostly silent and sometimes out loud.

Help yourself!!!

# You can name your child Abdul Qadr. But what was your intention? Did you name after the attributes of Allah, or after the popular Sufi Imam Abdul Qadr al-Jilani? It will be stupid to assume that every Abdul Qadr is named after each of the two.

Very weak!!! Firstly, Imam Abdul Qadr Jeelanee (Rahimahullâh) I know ain't a Sufi, but was on the path of the salaf. He's free from what the Sufis attribute to him just as how Isa is free from Christians and Aliyy is free from Matam chest beating Shi'as like you!

The Ahl Bayt as clearly pointed out in the article named their children after the great family and friends of the Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam). My father didn't just give me the name "Muhammad" because it's a common name but based on the fact that the it's the name of the Prophet and he wants me tour my life towards the same path of greatness as the Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam) did.

So if the Ahl Bayt gave their children names like Abubakar, it's because of the first caliph, Umar because of the Superb Caliph, Uthman - same, etc. If you aren't satisfied, I'm in my house come and beat me!

Demmzy15:


First of all, I clearly pasted the author's name at the beginning of the article. So don't make it look as if you've accomplished something big!

Your problem is, you lie and twist things and think we're fools or dummies. The author clearly stated: Imam al-Rida is highly respected by Sunni scholars (as righteous scholar and Imam from the Imams of the Ahl al-Bayt of the Salaf era) and Zaydi Shias alike

Notice the what's in the parenthesis!

# Then you simply need to adjust your title which is misleading. Imam of "Sunnah"! You meant "of Ahlu Sunnah" as a sect. Unless your intention is "following the Sunnah of the Prophet".

# You will see how you hijacked AbdulQadir Jilani too.

Demmzy15:

Oh sorry!!! Hope you know I can also say regarding Abubakr(Alayhi Salam), Umar(Alayhim Salam), Uthman (Alayhim Salam), Ibn Abbaas(Alayhim Salam), Mu'awiyah (Alayhim Salam) and finally Imam Ali Al Rida (Alayhim Salam).

**shines his ewedu infested teeth**

# Then you have started a Bid'ah adding to your long list of Bid'ah.

# Alaih salam is for the Prophets and their ahl al-Bayt.

# Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman were never from the Prophet's Ahl al-Bayt.

# Ibn Abbas (r.a) was not among those shown and selected by Nabi as his Ahl al-Bayt though in the use of language, he together with wives belong to general ahl al-Bayt but none of them was specified. And according to Quran, offsprings of a prophet are usually refer to as ahlulbayt (except a case where they/he is a renegade).


# Interestingly, sahih Bukhari and Muslim, among all other books of yours did not engage in that Bid'ah you have started. They only used " alaih salam" in their documented reports for the prophets, and Ali, Fatima, Hassan, Hussein, Ali Ibn Hussein, al-Mahdi; never for Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ibn Abbas.

# So learn from your book, or continue your Bid'ah. Its your choice.

Demmzy15:


And according to Twelver Shi'a logic Imam Zayd must have been a liberator for standing up against rulers who oppressed the Ahl Bayt, abi I lie ni? Mind you, the Twelvers rejected him not because he fought but because he refused to curse the Sheikhains!

# Liar Demmzy15. Again, I will give you chance to read about Zaydi. You don't just copy paste about a subject while you know nothing about it. It expose your ignorance.


# Shi'a ithna Ashari do not curse your sheikhain. We only expose their irregularities and Bid'ah they introduced into Islam as recorded in your books. Do not use those fraction who do (i.e curse the sheikhain) to judge millions. Does ISIS represent Ahlu Sunnah? If you want to judge shia aqeedah, quote from shia sahih ahadith and what majority believe or from the fatawa of most recognised Shia ulama.

# Zayd Ibn Ali Ibn Hussein was never an appointed Imam. Besides, his aqeedah was you need to revolt against the government to restore back the right of Ahlu al-Bayt, only then your leadership can be confirmed. No Imam from the Ahl al-Bayt practised such.

Demmzy15:

Last time I checked, none of Twelvers can stand a Zaydi in an intellectual discourse.

# ati e je ni to mo about Zaydi. Please go and read if you wish to bring forth their views against Ithna ashariyyah.

Demmzy15:

Sunnis follow the Ahl Bayt, from the wives of the Prophet to the family of Abbas and Aqeel to Ali and his children including Hassan, Hussain, Muhammad Hannafiyyah, etc. Some members of the Ahl Bayt were known teachers of great Sunnis. As you pointed out, Sunnis benefitted from them so I don't know why you must beat your chest about that!

# Yeah, we know Sunni took ahadith and knowledge from anybody. That is not our point. Our point is on those specifically appointed by the Prophet for the guidance of the Ummah. That is Qur'an and his offsprings, as stated widely.

# Wives of Prophet were never counted by Nabi as his Ahl al-Bayt, the second of Thaqalain. Abbas, Aqeel, never amongst the Ahl al-Bayt. If you think they were, bring proof from the lip of the Prophet.


# Your Imam Ibn Taymiyyah has boastfully exposed that nothing but very little (qalil jiddan) was taken from Ali and his offsprings compared to what was taken from others than them. Imagine, Ali, the most knowledgeable of the Qur'an and Sunnah of Nabi.

Demmzy15:

Apart from the four major Sunni madhabs, there were others(Laythi, Thawri, etc) but no one almost follows them but that doesn't mean we don't respect the Imams of those Madhabs.

# All of your Imams, Maliki, Shafi'i, etc, NO ONE of them is commanded to be followed. Follow them at your own peril.


# This is how Qur'an described the Imams to be followed:
"We have appointed them as Imams to guide by Our command"

Demmzy15:


Mr. Man did you read this part of the article before plastering amala on this thread?

(Reciting the Basmalah out loud is an opinion held by many of the Salaf and Sunni scholars throughout history, in fact it is the position of the Shafi’is. Even those who do not recite it out loud don’t deem it as a bid’ah, they merely argue that the Prophet recited it mostly silent and sometimes out loud.

Help yourself!!!

# Unfortunately, Ali Ibn Musa ar-Rida (alaih Salat wa salam) did not see it as optional. If you think he does, you have to bring proof.


# Optional is even from the opinion of part of Sunni. Basmala is not a verse of Qur'an and it is a verse of the Quran, according to Salafiyyah; and whichever side you support, the other side believe you have believed in Tahrif of the Quran.

Demmzy15:

Very weak!!! Firstly, Imam Abdul Qadr Jeelanee (Rahimahullâh) I know ain't a Sufi, but was on the path of the salaf. He's free from what the Sufis attribute to him just as how Isa is free from Christians and Aliyy is free from Matam chest beating Shi'as like you!

# Who told you AbdulQadir Jilani was not a Sufi?! Olè. Go and read his biography by Dhahabi, and what Ibn Taymiyyah wrote about him.

# True, some corrupted his taught about sufiism and his Tariqat. To say he was not a Sufi, is an 100% ignorance and desperation.

Demmzy15:

The Ahl Bayt as clearly pointed out in the article named their children after the great family and friends of the Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam). My father didn't just give me the name "Muhammad" because it's a common name but based on the fact that the it's the name of the Prophet and he wants me tour my life towards the same path of greatness as the Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam) did.

So if the Ahl Bayt gave their children names like Abubakar, it's because of the first caliph, Umar because of the Superb Caliph, Uthman - same, etc. If you aren't satisfied, I'm in my house come and beat me!

# Its a very simple case. Bring one single evidence to prove those children were named after Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Quhafah, Umar Ibn al-Khattab, Uthman Ibn Affan, Aisha bint Abi Quhafah etc.


# We have a strong hadith where Imam Ali expressed the love he had for Uthman Ibn Hunaif, another known Sahabi of Nabi, who fought gallantly alongside Imam Ali, alaih salam. And because of him, Imam. named one of his sons, Uthman.

# It is only in your world that only one human being bear Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Aisha etc.


# Like I said, shia do not hate those names. If there is problem in any of those names, prophet himself would have correct and change them as we have seen in some names being changed by him. Shi'a only concern about those sahabah's personalities, not their name.


# Am looking forward to the remaining copy paste.

AlBaqir:

# Then you simply need to adjust your title which is misleading. Imam of "Sunnah"! You meant "of Ahlu Sunnah" as a sect. Unless your intention is "following the Sunnah of the Prophet".

You must be joking, when I titled it "Imam of Sunnah", I clearly meant what I wrote. He's Imam of Sunnah of the Prophet and salafs(Companion, etc). I'm not changing it, come and beat me!

# You will see how you hijacked AbdulQadir Jilani too.

Why can't you chill and reach where I "hijacked" him before doing this?! \/ \/

# Then you have started a Bid'ah adding to your long list of Bid'ah.

Call it whatever you want!

# Ibn Abbas (r.a) was not among those shown and selected by Nabi as his Ahl al-Bayt though in the use of language, he together with wives belong to general ahl al-Bayt but none of them was specified. And according to Quran, offsprings of a prophet are usually refer to as ahlulbayt (except a case where they/he is a renegade).

What's the meaning of this? According to the Qur'an, it explicitly included the Prophet wives as the Ahl Bayt. The term Ahl Bayt depends on the context it's being used and what your tried to explain above is just your personal view which has no backing.

# Liar Demmzy15. Again, I will give you chance to read about Zaydi. You don't just copy paste about a subject while you know nothing about it. It expose your ignorance.

Oya oya start busting my lies!!!

# Shi'a ithna Ashari do not curse your sheikhain

Check the below screenshots!

If you want to judge shia aqeedah, quote from shia sahih ahadith and what majority believe or from the fatawa of most recognised Shia ulama.

As for the other groups of the Nawasib, actually the Khawarij, even though they’ll get the more punished then the Kuffar, yet this is not proving them to be Najis (impure). Hence if a Sultan makes Khurooj (opposes/fights) Amir Al-Mu’minin – ‘alaihis-salam – not for religious reason, rather for worldly reason (seeking power) or other motives like Aaisha, Zubair, Talha, Mu’aawiya and their likes, or if someone holds Nasb/enmity towards him or one of the [twelve] Imams (ﻉ ), not due to religious reason rather because of his enmity towards the Quraish, or Bani Hashim or the Arabs or because [Ali] killed one of his children or his father etc. Apparently none of those are necessarily considered Najis (impure) from an apparent point of view, although in fact they are more impure than dogs and pigs. Kitab Al Tahara of Ayatollah Khomeini – Vol. 3, page 457

# Zayd Ibn Ali Ibn Hussein was never an appointed Imam. Besides, his aqeedah was you need to revolt against the government to restore back the right of Ahlu al-Bayt, only then your leadership can be confirmed. No Imam from the Ahl al-Bayt practised such.

Firstly, Zayd(Rahimahullâh) wasn't the only one that was not an appointed Imam(in the Shi'a sense of 12- Imams with superpowers) but Ali, Hasan and Husain- may Allaah be pleased with them.

Secondly, this is clearly a double standards as you curse and slap your chest over the "tyrannical" Ummayads in one thread and then view them as a legitimate rulers in others as you've clearly shown here. Please stop the hypocrisy here!

Thirdly, other members of the Ahl Bayt loved Zayd, even Imam Ali Rida himself. Jafar Sadiq's loved Zayd ibn Ali so much. Upon receiving and reading the letter of Zayd ibn Ali's death he broke down and cried uncontrollably, and proclaimed aloud:
“ From God we are and to Him is our return. I ask God for my reward in this calamity. He was a really good uncle. My uncle was a man for our world and for our Hereafter. I swear by God that my uncle is a martyr just like the martyrs who fought along with God’s Prophet (s) or Ali (s) or Al-Hassan (s) or Al-Hussein(s)

—  Uyun Akhbar al-Reza- The Source of Traditions on Imam Ali ar-Ridha

# Yeah, we know Sunni took ahadith and knowledge from anybody. That is not our point. Our point is on those specifically appointed by the Prophet for the guidance of the Ummah. That is Qur'an and his offsprings, as stated widely.

Yes we did that, as evident from following Ibn Abbaas, Aliyy, and his wives on many issues(May Allaah be pleased with them). We seek blessings for them all during our five daily prayers and more. We don't need to follow the point of you Shias!

As for your last post, I just laugh!!! The analogy I made in my previous post was very clear, I said other madhabs exist but we almost don't follow them but does that mean we hate and despise the Imams?

Please settle down and read, don't be in a hurry!

Demmzy15:

What's the meaning of this? According to the Qur'an, it explicitly included the Prophet wives as the Ahl Bayt. The term Ahl Bayt depends on the context it's being used and what your tried to explain above is just your personal view which has no backing.

# The word "Ahl al-Bayt" is a general word which could include every sundry that have blood or marriage relations with the prophet. Even Nabi "counted" Salman, a Persian, among his Ahl al-Bayt. Abu Lahab was even from them.

# However, when the term is used for "divine selection", it is no longer general but limited to a specific class.

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 33- 34:

Surely Allah chose Adam and Nuh and the descendants of Ibrahim and the descendants of Imran above the nations.

Offspring one of the other; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

And even it is not all of the "offsprings".

# Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 124:

And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He.

Hence, you could read how Allah removed the biological son of Nabi Nuh from his Ahl al-Bayt for his unrighteous deeds.

# Ayat at-Tathir, Ayah Mubahala, hadith Thaqalain/Khalifatain talk about divine purification, divine selection for specific purpose, and guidanceship respectively, of Nabi Muhammad's Ahl al-Bayt. In all these, only the specific individuals were selected. Sunni ahadith are numerous on this beyond any doubt or twists. If you want to ignorantly argue this, be my guest.

Demmzy15:

Check the below screenshots!

Kitab Al Tahara of Ayatollah Khomeini – Vol. 3, page 457

# See how he mentioned the book as if he has ever seen its cover page not to talk of reading its contents.

# I thought you want to give us a web link or scan page of the main book where we can read ourselves. So its usual copy paste. You are a joker. Google scholar Demmzy15

# I think I might save you of your disgrace by given you a link where ALL classical shia books can be read or downloaded.

Demmzy15:

Firstly, Zayd(Rahimahullâh) wasn't the only one that was not an appointed Imam(in the Shi'a sense of 12- Imams with superpowers) but Ali, Hasan and Husain- may Allaah be pleased with them.

# Appointed with "superpowers"? How were Ali, Hassan and Hussein " appointed with superpowers"?

# Nabi appointed Ali saying, "...and you are my Khalifah...you are my Wali ....over all the believers after me".

# Ali gave the mantle to Hassan, and Hassan to Hussein.

# NONE OF THEM FOUGHT OR HIJACKED POWER VIA MILITARY OR REBELLING

Demmzy15:

Secondly, this is clearly a double standards as you curse and slap your chest over the "tyrannical" Ummayads in one thread and then view them as a legitimate rulers in others as you've clearly shown here. Please stop the hypocrisy here!

# Your lying now knows no bound. Me, Al-Baqir, claimed Ummayad rulers were legitimate?!

# And where did I curse and slap my chest?

# Try and have some decency, boy.

Demmzy15:

Thirdly, other members of the Ahl Bayt loved Zayd, even Imam Ali Rida himself. Jafar Sadiq's loved Zayd ibn Ali so much. Upon receiving and reading the letter of Zayd ibn Ali's death he broke down and cried uncontrollably, and proclaimed aloud:
“ From God we are and to Him is our return. I ask God for my reward in this calamity. He was a really good uncle. My uncle was a man for our world and for our Hereafter. I swear by God that my uncle is a martyr just like the martyrs who fought along with God’s Prophet (s) or Ali (s) or Al-Hassan (s) or Al-Hussein(s)

—  Uyun Akhbar al-Reza- The Source of Traditions on Imam Ali ar-Ridha

# It is easy to copy paste but difficult to prove authenticity of a claimed letter or hadith.

Demmzy15:

As for your last post, I just laugh!!! The analogy I made in my previous post was very clear, I said other madhabs exist but we almost don't follow them but does that mean we hate and despise the Imams?

# Nobody is talking about hatred here. I am talking of how Sunni boycotted the Imams of Ahl al-Bayt to the fact that what they took from them was "qalil jiddan", and others were preferred above them.

# Allah made them Imam over mankind (al-Baqarah: 124, and Ibn Kathir gave a beautiful commentary on the ayah how that Ibrahimi lineage are the appointed Imam till Qiyamat, and sahih Bukhari reported Ibn Abbas confirming Muhammad's offsprings are that Ibrahim's lineage).

# Then, Quran is also clear saying, " We have made them Imams guiding by Our command".

# Whether you like follow Mailiki, At-Thawri, or Ibn Taymiyyah. It is a fact that nobody appointed them to be followed.

AlBaqir:

# Unfortunately, Ali Ibn Musa ar-Rida (alaih Salat wa salam) did not see it as optional. If you think he does, you have to bring proof.

You dey inside hin head abi? Or he don inspire after you hibernated after beating the hell out of your self!!!

Who told you AbdulQadir Jilani was not a Sufi?! Olè. Go and read his biography by Dhahabi, and what Ibn Taymiyyah wrote about him.

To say he was Sufi is the most irresponsible statement ever, was Isa a Christian despite all Christians attribute to him? Did Ali trend the path Shi'as attribute to him? Capital NO!

Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said: He had a dignified bearing, and he kept quiet except for enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil; he had very little interest in worldly gain (i.e., he was an ascetic); miracles were attributed to him; his followers and companions spoke a great deal about him and narrated from him his words, actions and miracles, but most of the reports about his miracles are exaggerated. He was righteous and pious, and wrote books called al-Ghunyah and Futooh al-Ghayb , in which there are good things and in which he also quoted da‘eef (weak) and mawdoo‘ (fabricated) hadeeths. To sum up, he was one of the leading shaykhs.
Al-Bidaayah wa’n-Nihaayah , 12/768

Imam adh-Dhahabi (may Allah have mercy on him) said of him: The shaykh, imam, scholar, ascetic (zaahid), ‘aarif (devoted worshipper), Shaykh al-Islam, ‘Alam al-Awliya’ (The most prominent of the close friends (awliya’, sing. wali) of Allah).
Siyar A‘laam an-Nubala’ , 20/439

Please stop shining your brown teeth, that was how Empiree claimed ibn taymiyyah was a Sufi

# We have a strong hadith where Imam Ali expressed the love he had for Uthman Ibn Hunaif , another known Sahabi of Nabi, who fought gallantly alongside Imam Ali, alaih salam. And because of him, Imam. named one of his sons, Uthman.

Lmao!!! why don't you also follow Imam Ali Sunnah and name your child after "Uthman ibn Hunaif" and "Umar Ibn Abi Salamah"? Hypocrites!!! Chaiiiii, you guys are just too funny!!! You don't follow the sunnah of your Imams, it's we Sunnis that follow and love the Ahl Bayt in reality. Sheikh Muhammad Ibn Abdulwahab named his children; Hassan, Hussain, Ali and Fatima. This is true love bro!

In "nasibi" Saudi Arabia, they even named streets after many of the Ahl Bayt, have you heard of Uthman ibn Ali Ibn Abi Talib? I guess not, because you've all excluded him from your Matam ceremonies because of probably his name(which you claimed is after Uthman ibn Hunaif), he was killed in Karbala.

# Its a very simple case. Bring one single evidence to prove those children were named after Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Quhafah, Umar Ibn al-Khattab, Uthman Ibn Affan, Aisha bint Abi Quhafah etc.

Very pathetic!!! When the Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam) named his son Ibrahim, was there any evidence it was after Prophet Ibrahim(Alayhi Salam)? Descendants of Hassan and Hussain kept giving their children each other Hassan, Hussain and Ali repeatedly, so should we now say it wasn't after their predecessors? But when it's with the case of Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Aisha and Mu'awiyah - May Allaah be pleased with them- it's random choosing. What insolence!!!

-Hassan had a son whose name is Abdullah and nicknamed Abubakr, "coincidentally" according to your logic, we have the first caliph name to be Abdullah and his nickname Abubakr Do you think we're dummies?

-The name Abubakr which Ali gave his son also died in Karbala(no one mentions him in Matam ceremonies) was after none except the first caliph because the other Abubakr(Ibn Sha'oub) was a kafir.

So AlBaqir, I'm challenging you and every other Shi'as on this forum to post a video of slapping yourselves and shouting "Ya Abubakr Ya Umar and Ya Uthman" on Muharram just as you shout the other martyrs.

Demmzy15:



To say he was Sufi is the most irresponsible statement ever, was Isa a Christian despite all Christians attribute to him? Did Ali trend the path Shi'as attribute to him? Capital NO!

Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said: He had a dignified bearing, and he kept quiet except for enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil; he had very little interest in worldly gain (i.e., he was an ascetic); miracles were attributed to him; his followers and companions spoke a great deal about him and narrated from him his words, actions and miracles, but most of the reports about his miracles are exaggerated. He was righteous and pious, and wrote books called al-Ghunyah and Futooh al-Ghayb , in which there are good things and in which he also quoted da‘eef (weak) and mawdoo‘ (fabricated) hadeeths. To sum up, he was one of the leading shaykhs.
Al-Bidaayah wa’n-Nihaayah , 12/768

Imam adh-Dhahabi (may Allah have mercy on him) said of him: The shaykh, imam, scholar, ascetic (zaahid), ‘aarif (devoted worshipper), Shaykh al-Islam, ‘Alam al-Awliya’ (The most prominent of the close friends (awliya’, sing. wali) of Allah).
Siyar A‘laam an-Nubala’ , 20/439

Please stop shining your brown teeth, that was how Empiree claimed ibn taymiyyah was a Sufi

# La haola wala quwata illah Billah. Wallahi you exposed yourself further to be ignorant and fanatic.

# Even the bunch of salafist of the old you have quoted up there cannot help it other than to describe AbdulQadir Jilani as "an aarif, an ascetic, who has very little interest in the worldly affairs". That is a Sufi/Sufism in its best description.

# Sufism is not a sect like the commercialised bandiri type you have today. Sufism is a spiritual movement, and irrespective of your madhhab or aqeedah, you can be an Aarif, a Sufi.

It is clear from demmy's post last quoted by albaqir that demmy doesn't know what is sufism?. I will now place him in the same category with alhusunnah guy.

Too bad you guys actually think sufism is a different religion. God go punish whoever taught you this. Sufism is just a phrase that describes what is already ingrained in the kitab and sunnah. You guys are so mesmerized by name or term instead of looking at the larger picture (ESSENCE).

Quran speaks about purification of soul. It is the same as ihsan, tazkiyah, tasawuf. And we see bunch of examples in hadith. Albaqir just summed it up. Nabi isa alaiysalamm was ogbologbo sufi. And the master of sufis was mustafa mummad (saw) himself. Sufi is not a sect but the very spiritual heart of Islam.

AlBaqir:

# The word "Ahl al-Bayt" is a general word which could include every sundry that have blood or marriage relations with the prophet. Even Nabi "counted" Salman, a Persian, among his Ahl al-Bayt. Abu Lahab was even from them.

Ahl Bayt according to Qur'an wa Sunnah refers to Ahl Kisa, the wives of the Prophet, Family of Abbas, Family of Aqeel, Family of Jafar and I think family of Al Harith. The Prophet also showed that non-blood related can also be Ahl Bayt, this is why he included Salman.

# However, when the term is used for "divine selection", it is no longer general but limited to a specific class.

For us to know the "divine selection" we look into Qur'an wa Sunnah.

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 33- 34:
Surely Allah chose Adam and Nuh and the descendants of Ibrahim and the descendants of Imran above the nations.
Offspring one of the other ; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
And even it is not all of the "offsprings".

Firstly, the wife of Prophet Ibrahim(Alayhi Salam) was included as per the Qur'an when the angels announced the glad tidings of a child to be born:

They said: "Do you wonder at the Decree of Allah? The Mercy of Allah and His Blessings be on you, O the family [of Ibrahim (Abraham)]. Surely, He (Allah) is All-Praiseworthy, All-Glorious." Suratul Hood:73

As you can see above, she's part of the Ahl Bayt of Ibrahim. So why should the wives of the Prophet be excluded?

Secondly, amongst the descendants of Prophet Ibrahim(Alayhi Salam) includes Abubakr, Umar, Uthman, Mu'awiyah - may Allaah be pleased with them-

Hence, you could read how Allah removed the biological son of Nabi Nuh from his Ahl al-Bayt for his unrighteous deeds.

This cannot work here, lemme give you example with Prophet Lut's wife:

“(All) except the family of Loot. Them all we are surely, going to save (from destruction). Except his wife…”
al-Hijr :59-60

This shows was part of the Ahl Bayt originally before she was excluded just as how the son of Nuh was also excluded.

# Ayat at-Tathir, Ayah Mubahala, hadith Thaqalain/Khalifatain talk about divine purification, divine selection for specific purpose, and guidanceship respectively, of Nabi Muhammad's Ahl al-Bayt. In all these, only the specific individuals were selected. Sunni ahadith are numerous on this beyond any doubt or twists. If you want to ignorantly argue this, be my guest.

See hin mouth, see as how you're twisting anyhow on Sunni hadith .

It depends on the context/incident in which word Ahlul Bayt was used.

-According to Quran, Surah Ahzab 28-34, only wives of Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam) are Ahlul Bayt.

-According to Hadith Al-Kisa and Incident of Mubahila only Fatima, Ali, Hassan and Hussain are Ahlul Bayt.

-According to Hadith Saqlain (Ghadir Khumm), those on which acceptance of zakat was forbidden are Ahlul Bayt, which include Family of Ali, Aqil, Jafar and Abbas

It therefore refers to all the above, please don't drag this issue further!

# I thought you want to give us a web link or scan page of the main book where we can read ourselves. So its usual copy paste. You are a joker. Google scholar demmzy15

Even Sheikh Google knows the rate at which Shi'as practice taqqiyah

Screenshots are available below!!!

# Appointed with "superpowers"? How were Ali, Hassan and Hussein " appointed with superpowers"?

Ayaf told you my own, nobody was appointed any Imam to rule over mankind as you Shi'as portray it.

# Your lying now knows no bound. Me, Al-Baqir, claimed Ummayad rulers were legitimate?!

# And where did I curse and slap my chest?

# Try and have some decency, boy.

On this thread when you tried to malign Zayd. And please read my post well before posting, I stated: Secondly, this is clearly a double standards as you curse and slap your chest over the "tyrannical" Ummayads in one thread and then view them as a legitimate rulers in others as you've clearly shown here. Please stop the hypocrisy here!

# It is easy to copy paste but difficult to prove authenticity of a claimed letter or hadith.

Believe what you want, for those who want to get a glimpse at Imam Zayd Ibn Ali--- [url=mahajjah.com/zaid-ibn-ali-rahimahu-llah-2/]Here!!! [/url]

# Nobody is talking about hatred here. I am talking of how Sunni boycotted the Imams of Ahl al-Bayt to the fact that what they took from them was "qalil jiddan", and others were preferred above them.

What are you saying for crying out loud? Some Ahl Bayt were teachers of major Sunni Scholars. Imam Muslim recorded more hadiths from Imam Muhammad Al Baqir than Imam Abdullah(Abubakr), how is this a boycott?

Imam Bukhari didn't even take narrations from Abu Hanifah, Al Shafi'i and Al Sadiq and this doesn't mean that he boycotted them. I seriously baffled at how you Rafidhis think, seriously!!!

AlBaqir:




# Sufism is not a sect like the commercialised bandiri type you have today. Sufism is a spiritual movement, and irrespective of your madhhab or aqeedah, you can be an Aarif, a Sufi.

This is d part many people always misunderstood, sufism is not a sect. A salafi, ahly Sunnah, tijaniya, wahabis, can be called a sufist if they embark on a spiritual journey.

Demmy, what's sufism?

Demmzy15:

-According to Quran, Surah Ahzab 28-34, only wives of Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Salam) are Ahlul Bayt.

Please relax and read your Sunni hadith.


Ref 1: Verse of Purification

# Imam al-Tirmidhi documents:

Umar ibn Abi salamah, the dependent of the prophet, peace be upon him:

When this verse {Allah intends but only to keep impurity away all from you, O Ahl al-bayt, and to purify you absolutely} was revealed upon the prophet, peace be upon him, in the house of Umm salamah, he called Fatima, Hassan, and Hussayn and spread a clock over them while Ali was behind him. Then, he covered them with a clock. Then, he said, "O Allah! These are my Ahl al-bayt. So keep impurity away from them and purify them absolutely."

Umm salama said, "Am I with them, O prophet of Allah? He replied, "You are upon your place and you are upon a good thing."

Allamah al-Albani comments: Sahih

Source: al-Jami al-Sahih Sunan al-Tirmidhi, [annotator: Nasir din al-Albani], vol. 5, p. 351, #3205.


# Imam al-Hakim also document this same hadith in his {al-Mustadrak ala al-Sahihain, vol. 3, p.158, #4705}


# Furthermore, Imam Muslim records:

Aisha reported that Allah's apostle went out one morning wearing a stripped cloak of the black camel's hair, then there came Hasan b. Ali. He wrapped him under it, then came Hussein and he wrapped him under it along the other one (Hassan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came Ali and he also took him under it and then said: {Allah intends but only to keep impurity away all from you, O Ahl al-bayt, and to purify you absolutely}

Ref: Sahih Muslim, vol.4, p.1883, #2424 (61)
www.sunnah.com/muslim/44
NB: interestingly, this is the ONLY hadith under the chapter of the merit of Ahl al-bayt in Sahih Muslim.


Observe: This verse {Allah intends but only to keep impurity away all from you, O Ahl al-bayt, and to purify you absolutely} was revealed ALONE, recited ALONE but as per arrangement today, it occupies verse 33 of sura Ahzab within the context where Allah address the wives of the Prophet. So, you can clearly see it does not refer to the wives. Interestingly, only that separate verse have "Masculine pronouns" while the rest of the verses which enveloped it are in "feminine pronouns".

Demmzy15:

-According to Hadith Al-Kisa and Incident of Mubahila only Fatima, Ali, Hassan and Hussain are Ahlul Bayt.

Pay attention here too.


Ref. 2: Verse of Mubahala

{So, if someone argues with you in this (matter) after what has come to you of the knowledge, say (O Muhammad), "come let us call our sons and your sons, OUR WOMEN and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then (let us) pray and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars."} [Sura Aal-Imran:60-62]

Imam al-Hakim (d. 403H) records:

There have been Mutawattir [successive sahih narration] reports in the Tafsir Books from Abd Allah b. Abbas and others that the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, on the day of al-Mubahala, held the hands of Ali, Hassan, Hussein, and they positioned Fatima behind them. Then he said, "These are our sons, ourselves and our women, so bring yourselves, your sons and your women. Then we do Mubahala and place curse of Allah upon the liars (among us)"

Ref: kitab Ma'rifah Ulum al-hadith, [4th edition, 1400H; Beirut], pg. 50.

Imam Muslim also records:

Amir b. Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported on the authority of his father that Mu'awiyah b. Abi Sufyan appointed Sa'd as the Governor and said:

What prevents you from cursing Abu Turab [nickname of Ali], whereupon he said: It is because of three things which I remember Allah's Messenger having said about him that I would not abuse him...

(The third occasion is) when the verse was revealed: ...come let us call our sons and your sons..." Allah's Messenger called 'Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussein and said: O Allah, these are my Ahl (household).

Ref: Sahih Muslim 2404 d. In book ref: book 44, hadith 50; book 31, hadith 5915.

NOTE: Interestingly, the word "Nisa'ana" is in plural form and primarily according 90% references in the Qur'an, it refer to the wives of the Prophet (e.g see surah Ahzab). Alas! Prophet never took along ANY of his 9-11 wives. This ayah was revealed in the 9th Hijri, a year after the demise of the Prophet when he challenged the Christians of Najran.

Demmzy15:

-According to Hadith Saqlain (Ghadir Khumm), those on which acceptance of zakat was forbidden are Ahlul Bayt, which include Family of Ali, Aqil, Jafar and Abbas

It therefore refers to all the above, please don't drag this issue further!

# Are you afraid to quote the hadith? The part which generously included Bani Abbas, Bani Aqil, Bani Jafar was never from the lip of Nabi rather opinion of Zaid Ibn Arqam. Which one would you take: Nabi's clear saying or Zaid's opinion? The hadith was even very interesting. It is of two versions.


# Besides the same Zaid Ibn Arqam in other report described what Nabi meant by "Ahl al-Bayt" in Hadith Thaqalain to mean "my offsprings".


Ref 3: Hadith Thaqalain

The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said: "I am leaving behind over you the Two Weighty Things (al-Thaqalain): the Book of Allah and my offspring, Ahl al-bayt. Verily, both shall never separate from each other until they meet me at the lake-fount."

Sheik Shuaib al-Arnaut comments: Sahih

Source: Al-Tabarani, Mu'jam al-Kabir, vol. 5, p. 169, #4980}

This hadith is Mutawattir. It is documented by Nasa,i, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, al-Albani et al.

Demmzy15:


Firstly, the wife of Prophet Ibrahim(Alayhi Salam) was included as per the Qur'an when the angels announced the glad tidings of a child to be born:

They said: "Do you wonder at the Decree of Allah? The Mercy of Allah and His Blessings be on you, O the family [of Ibrahim (Abraham)]. Surely, He (Allah) is All-Praiseworthy, All-Glorious." Suratul Hood:73

As you can see above, she's part of the Ahl Bayt of Ibrahim. So why should the wives of the Prophet be excluded?

# So, why did Nabi Muhammad excluded his own wives from the selected Ahl al-Bayt, in the verse of purification, verse of Mubahala and Hadith Thaqalain/Khalifatain?


# Like I said earlier, wives and all children were included as general Ahl al-Bayt. Look at the case of Nabi Ibrahim you have quoted above, when it comes to Imamah/guidanceship, Allah restricted it to his " offsprings" alone, and even emphasised that "only the righteous ones" from his offsprings will be selected (al-Baqarah: 124).

Demmzy15:


This cannot work here, lemme give you example with Prophet Lut's wife:

“(All) except the family of Loot. Them all we are surely, going to save (from destruction). Except his wife…”
al-Hijr :59-60

This shows was part of the Ahl Bayt originally before she was excluded just as how the son of Nuh was also excluded.

# Why were the wives of Lut and Nuh were removed from their Ahl al-Bayt? Because of their wayward deeds. Read surah Tahrim please.

# Why was Nuh's son excluded from his Ahl al-Bayt? Quran says because of his unrighteous deeds (surah HUD).


# Even if the deeds of all the wives of the Prophet Muhammad were not clear, that of Aisha and Hafsa were crystal clear. Surah Tahrim with both Sunni and Shi'i classical Tafasir explain thus:

# Both wives were accused of divulging secret among
themselves.

# Some wives (led by Aisha) planned against their blessed husband

# Allah accused Aisha and Hafsa of having a deviated hearts (from the truth).


* These are wives that caused so much trouble to their husband that he abandoned them for a whole month. And you see their fathers (Abu Bakr and Umar), sometimes, giving them dirty slap and scolding them.


2. Fortunately, sura Tahrim was the last verse revealed regarding Aisha and Hafsa.

3. After the demise of Nabi nko?

# Aisha caused fitnah to the entire Ummah. No one can deny this no matter all sort of excuses tender.

# She confessed to have introduced Bid'ah.

Demmzy15, are those you want to smuggle into "purified Ahl al-Bayt", whom Nabi said " they will not deviate from the Qur'an? Do you even know how Sunni scholars defined" tathir " as used in Q.33:33?


Please request any point of mine that you need reference in Sunni books for.

AlBaqir:


# Reciting Basmala of every sura?!

# If it is that easy in Sunnism as the OP want us to believe, it would have been good. However, here are two Sunni thoughts:

* Basmala is not a verse (part of Qur'an)

* Basmala is a verse (part of Qur'an)

In both view of Sunnis, anyone you adhere to is Tahrif (distortion) of the Quran, as both ruled against each other.
www.nairaland.com/3083525/what-view-basmala-bismillah-rahman


# Here's Ali Ibn Musa ar-Rida reciting aloud Basmala of every sura in Salat. Sunni especially the Salafi don't practice this because according to their shuyukh, Basmala is not a verse of the Quran. Yet, they want to claim Ali Ibn Musa ar-Rida as one of their own.




# Name is not the problem for the Shia. Personality to whom it was named after is the point.

# You can name your child Abdul Qadr. But what was your intention? Did you name after the attributes of Allah, or after the popular Sufi Imam Abdul Qadr al-Jilani? It will be stupid to assume that every Abdul Qadr is named after each of the two.


# The names Abu Bakr (an alias not a name), Umar, Uthman, Mu'awiyah, Aisha, Hafsa are beautiful names that many bear them during and after the time of Nabi. Many Shia bear the name too. However, the persons of Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Quhafah, Umar Ibn al-Khattab, Uthman Ibn Affan, Mu'awiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan, Aisha bint Abi Bakr and Hafsa bint Umar were questionable individuals in the opinion of Shia. It is not their name shia have problem with, but their personalities.


# It is recorded in several books of hadith and history of the Sunni that in Syria during the khilafah of Mu'awiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan, and other Umayyad after him, the names of Ahl al-Bayt like Ali (especially), Hassan, Hussein were forbidden for people to name their children after. In fact a man purposely named his sons those names so that people could remember "Ali, or Hassan or Hussein" and curse them.

that's why I said you are a KAFIR

Kaytixy:
that's why I said you are a KAFIR

A fa la ta ki lun?


@albaair, sheikh Adam (ra) used to recite basmala at the begining of every sura in salat. I personally see no big deal in it. It is a matter of iktilaf. After all a deliberately "missing" basmala in one sura was ingrained later in another sura. So this is why thee might be difference of opinion.

Empiree:


@albaair, sheikh Adam (ra) used to recite basmala at the begining of every sura in salat. I personally see no big deal in it. It is a matter of iktilaf. After all a deliberately "missing" basmala in one sura was ingrained later in another sura. So this is why thee might be difference of opinion.

# On this thread: While the OP was trying to hijack Imam Ali Ibn Musa ar-Rida (alaih salam) as one of Sunni Aimmah or recognised Aimmah, and distanced him from the Shi'a, the OP himself brought the report that this Imam used to recite Basmala in every sura during Salat aloud. Non of the so-called Salafist agreed this to be correct. That's why they don't do it. They only believed the opinion of Ahmad Ibn Hanbali is the most correct. Once Salafi recite Basmala for Fatiha, never ever would they recite Basmala for subsequent sura.


# Generally, the case of Basmala is one big deal in the Sunni fiqh, then comes the salafist whose ruling are dreadful on it. To save time, I have add a link that talks more on that.


# In Shi'i understanding based on our ahadith, Basmala is part of every sura of the holy Qur'an, and it is a must to recite it at the beginning of each sura (except Tawbah) whether in Salat or tilawat. In fact, Shi'i fiqh stressed that after recitation of Sura al-Fatiha, a complete sura should be recited. Not a verse, or part of a sura but a complete sura.

There are sahih evidences in Sunni-Shia ahadith which prove this, that Nabi always recite complete suras (short and medium sized suras) in Salat and starts with Basmala.

AlBaqir:

Please relax and read your Sunni hadith.

Why shining your teeth?!

Ref 1: Verse of Purification

Lemme quote the verse for you and see how you Shias have shot yourselves on the foot.

And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Salat (IqamatasSalat), and give Zakat and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah wishes only to remove ArRijs (evil deeds and sins, etc.) from you, O members of the family (of the Prophet SAW), and to purify you with a thorough purification. Qur'an 33:33

Do you notice the emphasis? Are you saying Allaah intends to purify those who are born perfect and infallible(as per Shi'a beliefs)? You see how ridiculous it sounds?! This verse alone has crippled the so-called infallibility of your Imams!

# Imam al-Tirmidhi documents:
# Furthermore, Imam Muslim records:

Seriously, I know it'll probably annoy you but you're slow, you just copy and paste anyhow. If you had settled down and think, this would have occurred to you.

The verse specifically stated it was the wives of the Prophet, the Prophet doesn't need to cover his wives with cloak because the verse was in reference to them and everyone already knew but he had to demonstrate that the four were also included.

Observe : This verse {Allah intends but only to keep impurity away all from you, O Ahl al-bayt , and to purify you absolutely} was revealed ALONE, recited ALONE but as per arrangement today, it occupies verse 33 of sura Ahzab within the context where Allah address the wives of the Prophet. So, you can clearly see it does not refer to the wives. Interestingly, only that separate verse have "Masculine pronouns" while the rest of the verses which enveloped it are in "feminine pronouns".

Lol!!! This is going to end badly for you, I tell you!

Let's look at some examples from the Qur'an:

1. When the angels were talking to Sarah, wife of Prophet Ibrahim, they used masculine gender(I couldn't copy Arabic because of the antispam bot):

“They said: Do you wonder at Allah’s bidding? The mercy of Allah and His blessings are on you, O family [of Ibrahim(Abraham)] surely He is Praised, Glorious.“ Qur'an 11:73

2. :”And those who believe and engage is righteous deeds, they have for their revelry the Gardens of Paradise.” Qur'an 18:107

Here the Arabic phrase for “FOR THEM” is “LA-HUM”. This is masculine plural. Does this mean only men will go to Paradise? No na!!!

Ref. 2: Verse of Mubahala

The verse never spoke about Ahl Bayt, it made mention of "Nisaana wa Nisaakum". So what you're trying to imply is that the Prophet's wives aren't part of his "nisa", does that sound reasonable to you?

I quote from the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir:

Al-Bukhari recorded that Hudhayfah said, "Al-`Aqib and As-Sayyid, two leaders from Najran, came to the Messenger of Allah seeking to invoke Allah for curses (against whoever is unjust among them), and one of them said to the other, `Let us not do that. By Allah, if he were truly a Prophet and we invoke Allah for curses, we and our offspring shall never succeed afterwards.' So they said, `We will give you what you asked and send a trusted man with us, just a trusted man.'

What I want you to note here is that, when this event took place, the children of the Prophet were already dead except Fatima which means she was his offspring--Hassan wa Hussain with Ali who was his son inlaw.

This event doesn't even portray the picture you're trying to give it.

# Are you afraid to quote the hadith? The part which generously included Bani Abbas, Bani Aqil, Bani Jafar was
never from the lip of Nabi rather opinion of Zaid Ibn Arqam. Which one would you take: Nabi's clear saying or Zaid's opinion? The hadith was even very interesting. It is of two versions.

Did Zaid contradict the Prophet? He merely clarified who were the Ahl Bayt apart from those the Prophet mentioned, so why the fuss?

In another narration in Muslim, Zaid also clarified the issue by including the family of Abbas, Aqeel and Jafar. So I'm sorry, you're not saying anything new here, we follow the Ahl Bayt. As the Prophet said regarding the saved sect: "the path of which I and my companions are upon"

Demmzy15:


Lemme quote the verse for you and see how you Shias have shot yourselves on the foot.

And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Salat (IqamatasSalat), and give Zakat and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah wishes only to remove ArRijs (evil deeds and sins, etc.) from you, O members of the family (of the Prophet SAW), and to purify you with a thorough purification. Qur'an 33:33

Do you notice the emphasis? Are you saying Allaah intends to purify those who are born perfect and infallible(as per Shi'a beliefs)? You see how ridiculous it sounds?! This verse alone has crippled the so-called infallibility of your Imams!

# So your hadith is not enough to convince you:

1. that "verse of purification" was revealed alone as reported by both Aisha and umm salamah, and not part of the context of wives.

2. that Nabi did not grant his wife permission to enter the cloak when she requested

So its now logical deduction you have resulted to! Fine. If it is that, then you have putting yourself on a journey of no return:

1. Was Nabi not part of his Ahl al-Bayt, after all he included himself in the cloak and we believed him to be born purified. Naturally, according to the dictates of Islam, all dos (obligatory and non-obligatory) and donts are designed to purify and uplift your status before Allah. We believe Nabi and his Ahl al-Bayt never get tired in that.


2. Here's Imam al-Tabari:

“Al-Tabari recorded with a Hasan (good) chain from Qatadah, concerning His statement {Allah intends but only to keep impurity away all from you, O AHL AL-BAYT, and to purify you absolutely}: They are an Ahl al-Bayt. Allah purified them from evil, and He gave them a special mercy from Himself.”

source: Mawsu’at al-Sahih al-Masbur min al-Tafsir bi al-Mathur, vol. 4, p. 126}

So, this is a special blessing.

Demmzy15:


The verse specifically stated it was the wives of the Prophet, the Prophet doesn't need to cover his wives with cloak because the verse was in reference to them and everyone already knew but he had to demonstrate that the four were also included.

# You have only one option and that is to declare those ahadith falsehood, that state the "verse of purification" was a lone ayah, revealed alone, recited alone, and Nabi's interpreted it alone with those 5 individuals (including himself).

# In your manhaj, you only let hadith interpret Qur'an. So, is Nabi's interpretations not okay by you, boy?

Demmzy15:

Lol!!! This is going to end badly for you, I tell you!

Let's look at some examples from the Qur'an:

1. When the angels were talking to Sarah, wife of Prophet Ibrahim, they used masculine gender(I couldn't copy Arabic because of the antispam bot):

“They said: Do you wonder at Allah’s bidding? The mercy of Allah and His blessings are on you, O family [of Ibrahim(Abraham)] surely He is Praised, Glorious.“ Qur'an 11:73

2. :”And those who believe and engage is righteous deeds, they have for their revelry the Gardens of Paradise.” Qur'an 18:107

Here the Arabic phrase for “FOR THEM” is “LA-HUM”. This is masculine plural. Does this mean only men will go to Paradise? No na!!!

# I am not treating the verses from 28 - 34/35. Not even the whole of verse 33. I am only treating "verse of tathir" as exposed by those ahadith.

# There are many many verses in the Qur'an that were revealed alone and singly but due to compilation that we have today do not enjoy their individuality again. That is they are jampacked with other verses. A good example is the verse "today I have completed your religion and chosen Islam". It is said to be the last verse revealed, and it was revealed singly. Where is it today? Inside a very long verse 3/4 of surah al-Maidah (Qur'an chapter 5).

# Your history of compilation of Qur'an speaks volume of this.

Demmzy15:

The verse never spoke about Ahl Bayt, it made mention of "Nisaana wa Nisaakum". So what you're trying to imply is that the Prophet's wives aren't part of his "nisa", does that sound reasonable to you?

I quote from the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir:

Al-Bukhari recorded that Hudhayfah said, "Al-`Aqib and As-Sayyid, two leaders from Najran, came to the Messenger of Allah seeking to invoke Allah for curses (against whoever is unjust among them), and one of them said to the other, `Let us not do that. By Allah, if he were truly a Prophet and we invoke Allah for curses, we and our offspring shall never succeed afterwards.' So they said, `We will give you what you asked and send a trusted man with us, just a trusted man.'

What I want you to note here is that, when this event took place, the children of the Prophet were already dead except Fatima which means she was his offspring--Hassan wa Hussain with Ali who was his son inlaw.

This event doesn't even portray the picture you're trying to give it.

# kilan so, ki lon so

Abeg go back to the hadith of Sahih Muslim. When Nabi gathered Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussein for Mubahala, he said, "these are my Ahl al-Bayt".

# The word "nisa'ana" is obviously in plural and could mean "wives and female children together (it is used a lot in the Qur'an for the wives)" yet only Fatima was chosen. And Nabi said what he said above that "these are my Ahl al-Bayt". All these reinforce and point towards Ayat tathir Q.33:33/hadith kisa.

Demmzy15:

Did Zaid contradict the Prophet? He merely clarified who were the Ahl Bayt apart from those the Prophet mentioned, so why the fuss?

In another narration in Muslim, Zaid also clarified the issue by including the family of Abbas, Aqeel and Jafar. So I'm sorry, you're not saying anything new here, we follow the Ahl Bayt. As the Prophet said regarding the saved sect: "the path of which I and my companions are upon"

# Point 1A: In the context of "hadith Thaqalain/Khalifatain" which has to do with "leadership", only the offsprings are meant (not even Fatima). In fact Ali too wouldn't have qualified since he's not from Nabi's offsprings. But he was selected and appointed by Nabi himself. This is exactly how Allah appointed the offsprings of Ibrahim for Imamah (leadership) (Q.2:124). His wives and other relatives were excluded.


# Point 1B: So, Zaid Ibn Arqam is excused for the fact that in his other narration of Hadith Thaqalain (which I have stated), clearly quoted Nabi saying, "... and my offsprings, the Ahl al-Bayt". This put end to any alternative suggestions.


# However, Going via the text documented by Muslim, we extract these:

1. He (Zaid) first quoted the hadith Thaqalain as stated by Nabi. In this version, "offsprings" did not surfaced. Just the word "Ahl al-Bayt"

2. His visitors now asked him Question, "Are his wives not part of his Ahl al-Bayt?"

Two version of answers were recorded by Imam Muslim:

A. Yes they are but...

B. No

# There is a possibility that his visitors understood "Hadith Thaqalain" to be specific for the offsprings, however still want to know if "the wives" are part of the general Ahl al-Bayt. I say this because there question was "Are his wives NOT part of his Ahl al-Bayt?" not "Who are those Ahl al-Bayt (meant in the hadith)".

# Whichever way we look into it, my point 1 (esp. 1B) clarify whatever manipulation anybody might submit. which has to do with

I'm very sure that I have never called anyone a kafir before on this forum except albaqir and I won't stop. He has to know who he is perhaps, he will realize and repent unto Allah SWA.

How can you be beating chest up an Dan, cutting the hell out of your skin all in the name of one babaric practice and the rest and you still have the guts to come here and be talking trash. You no get shame ni have.

This Albaqir is a Joke wallahi, your grand sholars SAHIH prostitution like getting married for a minute, hours and some dirty stuff like that. I live in Zaria wallahi you will feel pity for their women on the day they celebrate that their nonsense. The women will be chained and men holding he chains with wips just in the name of one practice. Who send una because I know Husain ra did not and I'm even sure he is not aware of this nonsense. And you go get mouth dey talk. You no get shame ni? I know some fools sent you to come and win souls for your practice but you have failed and you will continue to fail. I just feel sorry for your children because of the way you want to lead them. They were born Muslims but their stupid father albaqir has changed their religion. May Allah Grant them guidance and save them from your evil and may Allah SWA also give you guidance and save you from your own evil and that shaitan Ameen.

Empiree:
A fa la ta ki lun?


@albaair, sheikh Adam (ra) used to recite basmala at the begining of every sura in salat. I personally see no big deal in it. It is a matter of iktilaf. After all a deliberately "missing" basmala in one sura was ingrained later in another sura. So this is why thee might be difference of opinion.

I forgive you and also pray that Allah SWA forgive us too. But don't insult me again for the sake of Allah. I know that you are not a Shia. But if albaqir wants to insult me, he is free to no problems thanks.

Kaytixy:
...

# Your identity can only be of two categories:

1. An old NL member in/with another moniker

2. A new NL member with a heavy, pus-filled heart of shia hatred.

# I can see the way you are displaying your angered and troubled heart from one thread to the other about albaqir. You should have learnt by now that the only way you can get my attention is to challenge my beliefs in a reasonable manners. The last time you ask me questions like sensible human being, I replied with careful and precise details.

# Even, if according to you albaqir is a Kafir, and you are a Muslim, wouldn't you follow the way of Qur'an?

"Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good manners, and argue in a best way..." Q.16:125