Visitor700:



The reason for this is largely due to the changes made to it (the bible) over the centuries.

What's the evidence that the Bible was altered?

Visitor700:


Where is your proof?

Read the Qur'an and if not read the link in the OP.

malvisguy212:


the Quran say the gospel is the word of Allah and nothing can change it. this simply mean that the Quran affirm the gospel.

Good job!

malvisguy212:


a man with two children , boy ( 12 years) and girl ( 13 years). after 16 years, someone came and said they are not your children, ofcours you will request for evidence probably a DNA test, if this is not done, their is no way you will accept that this children are not yours. after 600 years Muhammad came and say the Bible is corrupted. As I read the Bible and saw statements like “God is love”; “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind” [Matt. 22:37 ]; “But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” [Matt. 5:44 ]. Are these verses part of the corrupted Bible? What was changed? Who changed it? When was it changed? And the question: why did they corrupt it? These are all good questions that I have asked. No one seemed to have the answer.

Good questions. Let's hope they will answer them.

Princeboca12:


Sorry to say. If Jesus is the prince of peace.. Why does Allah tell us to pray that peace be with Mohammed. Why?

Another good question.

proudkafir:
The hadith below confirmed that at one point Mohammed was under the influence of black magic, a so-called prophet of allahh:

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 89:
Narrated ‘Aisha:
The Prophet continued for such-and-such period imagining that he has slept (had sexual relations) with his wives, and in fact he did not. One day he said, to me, “O ‘Aisha! Allah has instructed me regarding a matter about which I had asked Him. There came to me two men, one of them sat near my feet and the other near my head. The one near my feet, asked the one near my head (pointing at me), ‘What is wrong with this man? The latter replied, ‘He is under the effect of magic.’ The first one asked, ‘Who had worked magic on him?’ The other replied, ‘Lubaid bin Asam.’ The first one asked, ‘What material (did he use)?’ The other replied, ‘The skin of the pollen of a male date tree with a comb and the hair stuck to it, kept under a stone in the well of Dharwan.”‘ Then the Prophet went to that well and said, “This is the same well which was shown to me in the dream. The tops of its date-palm trees look like the heads of the devils, and its water looks like the Henna infusion.” Then the Prophet ordered that those things be taken out. I said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Won’t you disclose (the magic object)?” The Prophet said, “Allah has cured me and I hate to circulate the evil among the people.” ‘Aisha added, “(The magician) Lubaid bin Asam was a man from Bani Zuraiq, an ally of the Jews.”

Volume 7, Book 71, Number 660:
Narrated Aisha:
Magic was worked on Allah’s Apostle so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not (Sufyan said: That is the hardest kind of magic as it has such an effect). Then one day he said, “O ‘Aisha do you know that Allah has instructed me concerning the matter I asked Him about? Two men came to me and one of them sat near my head and the other sat near my feet. The one near my head asked the other. What is wrong with this man?’ The latter replied the is under the effect of magic The first one asked, Who has worked magic on him?’ The other replied Labid bin Al-A’sam, a man from Bani Zuraiq who was an ally of the Jews and was a hypocrite.’ The first one asked, What material did he use)?’ The other replied, ‘A comb and the hair stuck to it.’ The first one asked, ‘Where (is that)?’ The other replied. ‘In a skin of pollen of a male date palm tree kept under a stone in the well of Dharwan’ ” So the Prophet went to that well and took out those things and said “That was the well which was shown to me (in a dream) Its water looked like the infusion of Henna leaves and its date-palm trees looked like the heads of devils.” The Prophet added, “Then that thing was taken out’ I said (to the Prophet ) “Why do you not treat yourself with Nashra?” He said, “Allah has cured me; I dislike to let evil spread among my people.”

So my question to aminusanti and 'visitor' are these: was jibril still sending revelations to allahh's apostle at this period when he was under the influence of a black magic? How is it possible for a prophet of God to be under the influence of black magic?

if truly you r careful about d queries you r posting you, your answer is in what you r posting...

The magic according to the hadith did not affect the revelations being sent to the prophet from the angel Gabriel.

Secondly, the prophet himself was conscious of the fact that something was wrong, as we read the hadith we see:

One day he invoked (Allah) for a long period and then said, "I feel that Allah has inspired me as how to cure myself

So the prophet invoked and prayed to God for help and a cure, hence the prophet was aware that there was something wrong, hence he was conscious of the problem.

Now the next parts of the hadith prove that Muhammad (pbuh) is indeed a true prophet, because remember he asks Allah for help and a cure, and Allah hears the prophet's prayer and helps him.

So notice two persons come to the prophet in a dream, two angels. As you can see they tell the prophet where the materials for the bewitchment are, and the prophet eventually goes to this location and sees it for himself.

Now one would think that the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) would go and destroy the material to be freed from the bewitchment, yet he does not. We read the most interesting part of the hadith that says: "No, for I have been cured by Allah"

So notice the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did not need to destroy the material, because God himself had cured him.

So let us summarize what we have so far:

-Evil magic was worked on the prophet

-The magic did not affect the revelations of the Quran

-The prophet asked Allah for help, which means he was conscious of a problem

-Allah sent two angels to the prophet in a dream

-The angels told Muhammad (pbuh) where to go to find the materials that were used

-The prophet goes to the location, but he does not destroy the materials

-Allah himself has cured the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

So as you can see this incident in the prophet's lifetime does not disprove his prophethood, rather it is a great proof and evidence that he is a prophet. He asks God for help, and God comes to his aid.

There is a whole moral and wisdom behind this story, and the wisdom behind this story is that if we are afflicted with some sort of evil then we must look and turn to God for the help and cure, because God is the only one who can protect and save us. This is the entire basis of this incident, that we put all our faith and trust in God.

As Allah himself says in the Noble Quran:

>>033.003<< "And put thy trust in Allah, and enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs."

>>007.196<< "For my Protector is Allah, Who revealed the Book (from time to time), and He will choose and befriend the righteous."

>>003.150<< "
Nay, Allah is your protector, and He is the best of helpers".

Lastly, all of us will be tested by God, including the prophet himself, i don't have to tell u how your Man God suffered, therefore it should not surprise us if harm comes to the prophet, as the Quran says:

>>002.214<< "Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried: "When (will come) the help of Allah?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!"

So in conclusion this hadith does not disprove Muhammad (pbuh) as a prophet, nor does it question his credibility. If anyone is honest with themselves they will accept the hadith for what it is, and what it says, that angels came to the prophet, and that Allah cured and healed the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Even if none of this is good enough for you, the fact is that the hadiths themselves show that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was never affected in terms of being given revelations and spreading the message of Islam.

The Difference between The Gospel and The Quran is in our relative degree of Understanding the goodnews in the two Books.
God is Understanding.
Just like you and I in thesame class learning about God from a Professional Godist Professor. You picked The Gospel to read from while I pick The Quran. If you know who a Professional Godist Professor really is, and much more than a Prophet, the question of who of us will score a higher mark will depend on who of us can convince the Professor better that the three of, you, The Professor and I are sane and can control our insanity.
So The Quran and The Gospel are Books talking about God with varying emphasies, understanding and relishes. The Arabs are generally sensual and do not like to feel that God can feel as they feel. But they are content with The Holy Spirit Son, Isa, Issve, Jesus. Let us all pray that God will improve the understanding of all His Humans..

proudkafir:
If you say that I am misinterpreting allahh's words then you accused allahh of being a bad communicator. Mohammed/jibril/allahh were very clear in Quran 9:29 for Muslims to fight the Jews and Christians and force them to pay the jizya with willing submission. This evil command by allahh is very clear and unambiguous. If you read the tasfir of Ibn kathir, an Arabian Islamic scholar, he was very very clear on this, that Muslims must fight the Jews and Christians and grant them a dhimmi status in any Islamic state. This is what is known, in all Islamic circle, as 'The Pact of Umar'. Stop being disingenuous bro. Mohammed also called the Christians and the Jews 'the worst of creatures' (Qur'an 98:6) and asked Muslims not to take the Jews and the Christians as friends (Quran 5:51). ,

The Quran, as I said earlier, is never the word of any God but the imaginations and desires of Mohammed. No any God, or so-called allahh, spoke to Mohammed at any time. According to Mohammed himself, all the alleged revelations are from jibril. How can we authenticate that it wasn't a demon talking to Mohammed but called himself jibril. Mohammed, at a point was a victim of black magic, as narrated by Aisha in the hadith. If you agree with me that a typical victim of black magic is possessed by a demon, them Mohammed, at one point or the other was equally possessed by a demon. This is in your hadith.

ok then since you are very certain about your claims here, I believe you dont need any clarification from me. So, it will be waste of time n effort to explain those but no doubt you quoted those verses out of their historic context..seek proper knowledge my friend b4 its too late

Again, you brushed aside the testimony of Ibn Hisham on the story of Abdullah Ibn Sa'ad because it will dealt a mortal blow on the integrity of the Qur'an and Mohammed. If you reject 'Al sira' by Ibn Hisham, you also have to reject all the hadith of Bukhari because he copied some of his works from Ibn Hisham.

AGAIN !.I am not avoiding any of your queries... what`s your query here pls?

You said the Roman Catholic Bible is different from the KJV, can you please provide your evidence. The last time I checked, over 90% of Catholics used the KJV of the Bible.

The Catholic Bible contains a total of 73 books, 46 in the Old Testament and Protestant Bibles (kjv)have 39 and 27 in the New Testament (the same as Protestant Bibles).
Are they the same?

Lastly, its unfortunate that Muslims will reject their own hadith in order to validate Islam. Very funny and highly hypothetical!

As you know, we cannot just accept a hadith from anyone–this is our deen! If anyone could just say what they wanted, we would have nothing left of the true, pure message of Allah.

The scholars have analyzed the biographies of every narrator of hadith. They compile information on when he was born, and where, his tribe, who he met, what his character was, what other people narrated about him … piles and piles of information.

And in the analysis of the chain of narrators–those individuals who transmit a hadith from one to another, from Rasulullah (salallahu alayhi wa sallam) to a collector (like Imam Bukhari, Imam Muslim, etc.)–there are certain types of narrators that, if they are present in the chain, they automatically make the hadith da’eef.

Because they cannot be trusted. And thats what your scripture is lacking, and thats why u can find all sort of rubbish in it that includes X-rated and pornographic text

Do you reject or accept 'sunnah Ibn majjah hadith 1944' where Aisha reported that some Quranic manuscript were eaten by a goat? According to that hadith, the verses of breastfeeding an adult and stoning adulterers were eaten by goat. But you know what, these incidence were well documented in the hadith.

The Hadith does not come from a sound narration and the narration no way questions Qur’an infallibility. Even if the narration were authentic it no way questions the claim of Qur’an being totally preserved..I can carry to prove that to you but I believe you are not here for that but if truly u want to knw I can break it down for you in my next post but here are some points for you to join the dots.

P1- One of the two allegedly lost verses as per this narration was about stoning i.e. punishment of married adulterers but Quran already had a punishment for it in Quran 4:15-16
"And those of your women who commit illegal sexual intercourse, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them (i.e. women) to houses until death comes to them or Allah ordains for them some (other) way. And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, punish them both. And if they repent (promise Allah that they will never repeat, i.e. commit illegal sexual intercourse and other similar sins) and do righteous good deeds, leave them alone. Surely, Allah is Ever the One Who accepts repentance, (and He is) Most Merciful."

P2- Generally when a verse was revealed it was written down not by one or two companions but at least seven or more then that. If a goat had eaten a verse of Quran there might had been other copies of similar verses at that time.

P3- Many Prophets memorize the whole Quran even before its compilation. If such verse was revealed many have knew and memorize the verse

Q- How can they know the exact verses that were eaten by goat?

Whose testimony do I believe, yours or Aisha's (an eye witness to the event)?

Do the research urself rather than relying on those anti-islamic sources/site

.

aminusanti:


if truly you r careful about d queries you r posting you, your answer is in what you r posting...

The magic according to the hadith did not affect the revelations being sent to the prophet from the angel Gabriel.

Secondly, the prophet himself was conscious of the fact that something was wrong, as we read the hadith we see:

One day he invoked (Allah) for a long period and then said, "I feel that Allah has inspired me as how to cure myself

So the prophet invoked and prayed to God for help and a cure, hence the prophet was aware that there was something wrong, hence he was conscious of the problem.

Now the next parts of the hadith prove that Muhammad (pbuh) is indeed a true prophet, because remember he asks Allah for help and a cure, and Allah hears the prophet's prayer and helps him.

So notice two persons come to the prophet in a dream, two angels. As you can see they tell the prophet where the materials for the bewitchment are, and the prophet eventually goes to this location and sees it for himself.

Now one would think that the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) would go and destroy the material to be freed from the bewitchment, yet he does not. We read the most interesting part of the hadith that says: "No, for I have been cured by Allah"

So notice the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did not need to destroy the material, because God himself had cured him.

So let us summarize what we have so far:

-Evil magic was worked on the prophet

-The magic did not affect the revelations of the Quran

-The prophet asked Allah for help, which means he was conscious of a problem

-Allah sent two angels to the prophet in a dream

-The angels told Muhammad (pbuh) where to go to find the materials that were used

-The prophet goes to the location, but he does not destroy the materials

-Allah himself has cured the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

So as you can see this incident in the prophet's lifetime does not disprove his prophethood, rather it is a great proof and evidence that he is a prophet. He asks God for help, and God comes to his aid.

There is a whole moral and wisdom behind this story, and the wisdom behind this story is that if we are afflicted with some sort of evil then we must look and turn to God for the help and cure, because God is the only one who can protect and save us. This is the entire basis of this incident, that we put all our faith and trust in God.

As Allah himself says in the Noble Quran:

>>033.003<< "And put thy trust in Allah, and enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs."

>>007.196<< "For my Protector is Allah, Who revealed the Book (from time to time), and He will choose and befriend the righteous."

>>003.150<< "
Nay, Allah is your protector, and He is the best of helpers".

Lastly, all of us will be tested by God, including the prophet himself, i don't have to tell u how your Man God suffered, therefore it should not surprise us if harm comes to the prophet, as the Quran says:

>>002.214<< "Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried: "When (will come) the help of Allah?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!"

So in conclusion this hadith does not disprove Muhammad (pbuh) as a prophet, nor does it question his credibility. If anyone is honest with themselves they will accept the hadith for what it is, and what it says, that angels came to the prophet, and that Allah cured and healed the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Even if none of this is good enough for you, the fact is that the hadiths themselves show that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was never affected in terms of being given revelations and spreading the message of Islam.

You will agree with me that at a point Mohammed acted irrationally as a result of a spell cast on him with a black magic. How can an ordinary black magic has affect on God's servant? That's not possible!

You will agree with me that a mad man can never know whether he is mad or not, a second party has to confirm that. Mohammed was acting irrationally which made him think that he was sleeping with all his wives in one night while he was not doing that. If Mohammed is not your prophet, you will agree with me that that is a sign of insanity, which Aisha rightly pointed out.

Muhammad claimed two men appeared to him, in a dream, told him where the spell was placed and also cured him. All these claim was by Mohammed himself, without proof. Mohammed, the victim, is not in a better position to say he was cured of insanity. Aisha or the sahabas should have made that confirmation. At no point did Aisha said Mohammed was cured, Mohammed was the one that claimed he was OK.

My concern is this, when Mohammed claimed he used to sleep with all his wives in one night, who gave him that revelation? When Mohammed was under a magical spell, did jibril stop giving him revelation? If his scribes were still writing the Quran while he was under the magic spell, what is the tendency that some satanic verses were not uttered under this circumstances?

These are many questions are Muslims usually fail to answer. Can any Muslim mention any of God's prophet who had suffered the effect of black magic aside Mohammed?

.

Visitor700:


And from whom did jibril receive the revelation?



Can you prove that they changed the words during the course of "standardization" of the quran?



Read this then tell me if you still disagree:
https://orexca.com/osman_koran.shtml

'And from whom did jibril receive the revelation?' This is a very good question. This question wil lead us to the genesis of Islam when Mohammed alleged to had an encounter with an alien at the cave of hira near mecca. Mohammed claimed to have heard, not seen, when only him went to the cave to meditate. The entity he saw pressed him hard, choked him and asked him to *RECITE*. Out of fear, he ran home to tell his wife khadija who took him to her Christian uncle called waraqa. Mohammed narrated this encounter to waraqa who, without confirmation, immediately concluded that that entity was actually jibril. He told Mohammed that he was indeed a prophet. This means a so-called Christian confirmed Mohammed's prophethood and apostleship. Without waraqa, Muhammad wouldn't have called himself a prophet because his parents were pagans in charge of Kaaba and their ancestral god was allahh.

Mohammed's father was Abdullah Ibn Abdul- mutalib . Since Mohammed's father was a pagan, he was named Abdullah (slave of allahh) in reverence to their family god called allahh. Mohammed had to retain and upgrade his ancestral god as the only god and destroy all other gods worshipped at Kaaba. With his encounter with the Jews and Christians of Arabia, he was able to incorporate some aspect of Judaism and Christianity into his new religion and called it Islam (literally meaning submission to allahh alone). How did jibril fit into this melodrama? I will explain later.

You asked for a proof to show that changes were made when Uthman compiled the Quran. I have already given you the proof but your friend said the hadith is weak (a standard Muslim defense system). Read sunnah Ibn maggah hadith number 1944. Aisha had already answered your question. Besides, why did uthman burn many manuscripts he did not approve? What criteria did he use to determine the manuscript that are OK and the bad ones? Did Uthman also get revelations from jibril to determine the good and the bad manuscript? And lastly, I have already told you the lack of integrity of one of the scribes, Abdullah Ibn Sa'ad. Read more about his role in writing the Quran.

I asked you the age of the oldest Quranic manuscript and when Uthman died. This will let us know if the current manuscript is as old as Uthman. This is the only way we can prove that Uthman compiled it. Its unfortunate that the oldest Qur'an was written more than 200 years after the death of Mohammed, which means that Uthman had no business with the Quran in Turkey and Uzbekistan.

.

proudkafir:
You will agree with me that at a point Mohammed acted irrationally as a result of a spell cast on him with a black magic. How can an ordinary black magic has affect on God's servant? That's not possible!

You will agree with me that a mad man can never know whether he is mad or not, a second party has to confirm that. Mohammed was acting irrationally which made him think that he was sleeping with all his wives in one night while he was not doing that. If Mohammed is not your prophet, you will agree with me that that is a sign of insanity, which Aisha rightly pointed out.

Muhammad claimed two men appeared to him, in a dream, told him where the spell was placed and also cured him. All these claim was by Mohammed himself, without proof. Mohammed, the victim, is not in a better position to say he was cured of insanity. Aisha or the sahabas should have made that confirmation. At no point did Aisha said Mohammed was cured, Mohammed was the one that claimed he was OK.

My concern is this, when Mohammed claimed he used to sleep with all his wives in one night, who gave him that revelation? When Mohammed was under a magical spell, did jibril stop giving him revelation? If his scribes were still writing the Quran while he was under the magic spell, what is the tendency that some satanic verses were not uttered under this circumstances?

These are many questions are Muslims usually fail to answer. Can any Muslim mention any of God's prophet who had suffered the effect of black magic aside Mohammed?

Christianity n hypocrisy......lol

i have given you more than enough proofs in my prev post which any sensible person can reflect on ..*
if you re an atheist i can reason with you to try to give you more logical proofs but not a person that believes a crying God that was nailed on the cross and was killed by his creations..

* You have problem believing the prophet hood of the Prophet Mohammad (SAW) bcus he was once affected by magic but you have No problem believing Jesus/God was nailed on the cross by his creation , crying helplessly to himself to save himself from what he created? something most be wrong here..

* You doubt the Quran revelation b believing it was reveled by satan/ demon to a Mad Man yet you couldnt point out a single error or contradiction in it..

* You believe The Quran is from a Mad Man. today the population of the followers of this Man re about 2 billion and the fastest growing religion with the expectation of being the highest in population soon. All this from a Mad Man according to you


>>002:214<<

Or think you that you will enter Paradise without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? They were afflicted with severe poverty and ailments and were so shaken that even the Messenger and those who believed along with him said, "When (will come) the Help of Allah?" Yes! Certainly, the Help of Allah is near!

No. The Gospel now explains The Quran better. Better Knowledge, better Understanding. And you know like I, God is Knowledge and Understanding.

orisa37:


No. The Gospel now explains The Quran better. Better Knowledge, better Understanding. And you know like I, God is Knowledge and Understanding.

Please, can you shed more light on this?

aminusanti:

Christianity n hypocrisy......lol

i have given ... ...

* You have ... .....

* You doubt the Quran revelation b believing it was reveled by satan/ demon to a Mad Man yet you couldnt point out a single error or contradiction in it..

I've presented a proof of ERROR in the quran to which no Moslem has been able to fault.
Here it is again:
A case in point:
Sura 18:83-86 claims the sun sets in a spring or pool of muddy water.
The sun DOES NOT set in a pool of muddy water.
That is an ERROR in the quran.

.

Jesus, Son of Man. Christ, Son of God. Is, Son of Man. Lam, Holy Spirit, God. Gospel, News about Jesus Christ. Quran, News about Islam. God, The Holy Spirit. Flesh and Blood have not told me these, but The Holy Spirit of Righteousness. Happy Sunday to all BornAgains and Islamists!!!

Visitor700:


There's no error here. You took the verse out of context. Below is an extract from ibn kathir's commentary of (Quran 18:86)

"(he found it setting in a spring of Hami'ah) meaning, he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something which everyone who goes to the coast can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed. Hami'ah is, according to one of the two views, derived from the word Hama'ah, which means mud."

It's either you're right and your prophet Mohamed is WRONG or you are wrong and your prophet is right.
Either way, you show the quran to have error.

Let’s see where and how:
By turning to hadith.
In Sunan Abu Dawud 3991 we find this:
Abu Dhar said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water.

We can immediately see then that there is absolutely no room for the kind of reinterpretation of what the quran said.
So the PERFECTLY CLEAR quran tells us that the sun sets in a pool of water.

In a bid to defend your religion you may end up insulting your prophet and Allah if you claim to speak more clearly than your god and a better interpreter than your prophet.

For a book that is said to be CLEAR, when it takes a lot of rigmarole to arrive at the meaning of words, phases and sentences or even passages then it's either the book is not as clear as it says it is or set itself up to be interpreted incorrectly from the beginning.

What do you think?

Now again to the passage in question:
"he FOUND it setting in a miry spring, or spring of dark mud" cannot be interpreted other than that HE FOUND THE SUN SETTING IN A ...... It did not say "he SAW AN IMAGE of the sun. It says he FOUND THE SUN.

Look at the entire portion: "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people"

Your argument may have appeared to be believable except for the fact that you forgot to add the concluding portion to your argument.
Note what the last portion says " ..........and he found near it a people" He found a people where?
Note that it started with: " Until, when he reached the setting of the sun......" He REACHED where?
Now, how do you reconcile this with the rest of your explanation?

You'll see then that your "explanations" do not hold water just as the pool of mukky water cannot in any wise be said to hold the sun or be the place where the sun sets.

It is a CLEAR FACT that the sun does not set in a pool of water.
Can a book – the quran – which says this and by so doing clearly propagating error be trusted?
If by reinterpretation you end up in blasphemy of your prophet and god can you be assured of Paradise or end up in hell for blasphemy?

Way Out!
Follow the only unique and supernatural One – Jesus Christ who said:
“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (Jn. 14:6).
“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:3)
“He who believes in the Son (as Saviour) has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him” (Jn. 3:36).

plainbibletruth:


I've presented a proof of ERROR in the quran to which no Moslem has been able to fault.
Here it is again:
A case in point:
Sura 18:83-86 claims the sun sets in a spring or pool of muddy water.
The sun DOES NOT set in a pool of muddy water.
That is an ERROR in the quran.

it's really hard debating with you people honestly, you use verses of the Qur'an out of context, and seemingly, without knowledge as to the background to which they were revealed and those verses are either literal or allegorical in meaning.

the surah 18 describes a certain traveler (Dhul Qarnain) who came to eventually see the sun setting in a muddy spring but that's only describing it from the point of view of the onlooker, it is not saying that in fact the sun sets in the muddy spring only that from his vantage point it appeared to him such.. in a simplified way: ALLAH (SWT) is describing what appeared to the traveler (Dhul Qarnain). Example if i say to you how is New York ? you can only tell me your own view on how you see NY but not exactly how it is. and again thats the culture of people back then (common practice)

" And they ask you about Dhuk -Qarnain. Say: "I shall recite to you something of his story. Verily, We established him in the earth, and we gave him the means of everything. So he followed a way. Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."
Holy Qur'an (18:83-86)

aminusanti:

it's really hard debating with you people honestly, you use verses of the Qur'an out of context, and seemingly, without knowledge as to the background to which they were revealed and those verses are either literal or allegorical in meaning.

the surah 18 describes a certain traveler (Dhul Qarnain) who came to eventually see the sun setting in a muddy spring but that's only describing it from the point of view of the onlooker, it is not saying that in fact the sun sets in the muddy spring only that from his vantage point it appeared to him such.. in a simplified way: ALLAH (SWT) is describing what appeared to the traveler (Dhul Qarnain). Example if i say to you how is New York ? you can only tell me your own view on how you see NY but not exactly how it is. and again thats the culture of people back then (common practice)

" And they ask you about Dhuk -Qarnain. Say: "I shall recite to you something of his story. Verily, We established him in the earth, and we gave him the means of everything. So he followed a way. Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."
Holy Qur'an (18:83-86)

You have CAREFULLY chosen to disregard other issues I raised.
You have not touched on Mohamed's own explanation in the Sunan Abu Dawud 3991. Do you agree with Mohamed's explanation or not?

plainbibletruth:

You have CAREFULLY chosen to disregard other issues I raised.
You have not touched on Mohamed's own explanation in the Sunan Abu Dawud 3991. Do you agree with Mohamed's explanation or not?

you are quoting a rejected hadith my friend
The narration is anomalous (shaadh) and defective (mu’allal). if you are interested in knowing how & why it was rejected i can break it down to you here in details..
Read here to know the methodologies they used in authenticationg Hadiths
http://www.iiit.org/uploads/4/9/9/6/49960591/books-in-brief_authentication_of_hadith.pdf


The narration along with the chain of narrators goes as;


>>(Sunan Abu Dawud, Hadith 3991)<<
Yazid bin Harun- Sufyan bin Husain- Al-Hakam bin ‘Utaybah- Ibrahim (b. Yazid al-Taymi)- Yazid al-Taymi- Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water.

Above is the Hadith you quoted and below is the authenticated version of it

>>(Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Hadith 421)<<
The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Messenger know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun is quickly proceeding towards its destination. That is the designing of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing. "

The significant difference is of the words “it sets in a spring of warm/murky water.”

Apparently, the words from Qur’an 18:86 were confused and appended to the hadith that had no link to the ayah whatsoever. The narrator failed to understand the real significance of the verse and the hadith and for apparent semblance he confused the two

The verse from the Holy Qur’an i.e. surah 18 ayah 86 is simply about how the sunset appeared to Zulqarnain and even the classical Muslim scholars understood it like that. The detailed explanation of it is in my prev post.

Read here what the Quran says :


Quran
"And it is He who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all [heavenly bodies] in an orbit are swimming".

"Quran 21:33
It is He Who created the Night and the Day and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along each in its rounded course."



Now even if you stick to this rejected hadith that doesnt prove anything cus as i mentioned early, it is a kind ancient practice which i will be proving to you from your scriptures. see the pic below

*my question for you there is : why is it you have problem with the "the sun set" in the Quran but you dont see the one in your bible as anything??

Does the sun set on them or what? pls stop confusing yourself

aminusanti:

you are quoting a rejected hadith my friend
The narration is anomalous (shaadh) and defective (mu’allal). if you are interested in knowing how & why it was rejected i can break it down to you here in details..
Read here to know the methodologies they used in authenticationg Hadiths
http://www.iiit.org/uploads/4/9/9/6/49960591/books-in-brief_authentication_of_hadith.pdf


The narration along with the chain of narrators goes as;


>>(Sunan Abu Dawud, Hadith 3991)<<
Yazid bin Harun- Sufyan bin Husain- Al-Hakam bin ‘Utaybah- Ibrahim (b. Yazid al-Taymi)- Yazid al-Taymi- Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water.

Above is the Hadith you quoted and below is the authenticated version of it

>>(Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Hadith 421)<<
The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Messenger know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun is quickly proceeding towards its destination. That is the designing of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing. "

The significant difference is of the words “it sets in a spring of warm/murky water.”

Apparently, the words from Qur’an 18:86 were confused and appended to the hadith that had no link to the ayah whatsoever. The narrator failed to understand the real significance of the verse and the hadith and for apparent semblance he confused the two

The verse from the Holy Qur’an i.e. surah 18 ayah 86 is simply about how the sunset appeared to Zulqarnain and even the classical Muslim scholars understood it like that. The detailed explanation of it is in my prev post.

Read here what the Quran says :


Quran
"And it is He who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all [heavenly bodies] in an orbit are swimming".

"Quran 21:33
It is He Who created the Night and the Day and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along each in its rounded course."



Now even if you stick to this rejected hadith that doesnt prove anything cus as i mentioned early, it is a kind ancient practice which i will be proving to you from your scriptures. see the pic below

*my question for you there is : why is it you have problem with the "the sun set" in the Quran but you dont see the one in your bible as anything??

Does the sun set on them or what? pls stop confusing yourself

For a book that is said to be CLEAR, when it takes a lot of rigmarole to arrive at the meaning of words, phases and sentences or even passages then it's either the book is not as clear as it says it is or set itself up to be interpreted incorrectly from the beginning.

What do you think?

Secondly, how come even though muslims would tell the world they believe the hadith, they have been unable to agree on which ones to collectively use and so make it easy for any muslim apologist to refuse to accept reference to any of them used?

When the quran is quoted muslim apologists run to the hadith. When the hadith is quoted they put up disclaimers. If this is not deception and confusion I wonder what it is.

The hadith I quoted is well accepted by Moslems. If you're now rejecting it that goes a long way to show how deceptive you guys can be.

Now, you bring in the Bible passage to shift focus away from what we are talking about. That's another tactics of yours - DEFLECTION.

This is the difference: The quran says "he FOUND THE SUN SETTING"; Not "he SAW the sun setting". If "saw" were used your attempt at reinterpretation will hold water. But that was not the word used. And so your explanations run into murky waters.


Even the Sahir Bukhari you quoted does not help matters. what is "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again"?
Where does the fixed Sun travel to?
Under which throne does it prostrate?
The sun PROSTRATE? How?
Which permission to rise from where?

If you don't see that these are all 7th century Arabian understanding of what Mohamed thought was happening and not what a "book that existed in heaven" could have stayed then maybe you still living in the 7th century.

If you choose to stick to ANCIENT reasoning fine but please don't think everyone else can be as easily fooled as you've done to yourself.

If the quran that is said to be CLEAR need reference to "ancient practice" , chains of narrators, and understanding of classical Muslim scholars then it SIMPLY IS NOT AS CLEAR AS IT SAYS IT IS.

If that is so then something is wrong with the quran; don't you think?

.

Visitor700:


The only person who is wrong here is you.

Ibn kathir's commentary on the said verse PROVED that the verse is not to be taken LITERALLY.

It is not my interpretation. It was taken from ibn kathir's commentary. One of the most highly regarded quran commentaries worldwide.

Your undue resentment against islam is preventing you from accepting the fact so lets turn the table around. Should we also interpret this bible verse literally?

"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars."
(Revelation

The Bible passage you quoted doesn't work in your favour.
The Bible is clear where it should be taken literally or figuratively.
Not so the quran.

Now, that passage in the quran is CLEARLY about the narration of a real person's experience. Yes or No?
And we are not told he SAW a vision. Nor was he dreaming. If the "CLEAR" quran needs extra rigmarole to make it clear then it's not quite what it says about itself; don't you think?

.

plainbibletruth:

For a book that is said to be CLEAR, when it takes a lot of rigmarole to arrive at the meaning of words, phases and sentences or even passages then it's either the book is not as clear as it says it is or set itself up to be interpreted incorrectly from the beginning.

What do you think?

For a critic like you, u will always see it as unclear simply bcus your cooked up stories cant fit in. Quran is as clear as day. Exact thing was highlighted to u from ur scriptures but you simply rejected the fact

Secondly, how come even though muslims would tell the world they believe the hadith, they have been unable to agree on which ones to collectively use and so make it easy for any muslim apologist to refuse to accept reference to any of them used?

pls stop all this ur blind argument jst try n educate yourself on why some hadith re considered weak or rejected first

When the quran is quoted muslim apologists run to the hadith. When the hadith is quoted they put up disclaimers. If this is not deception and confusion I wonder what it is.[

/b] again help yourself first and things will start making sense to you

The hadith I quoted is well accepted by Moslems. If you're now rejecting it that goes a long way to show how deceptive you guys can be.

your proofs pls or just give us a single commentary on it by any mufassir.

Now, you bring in the Bible passage to shift focus away from what we are talking about. That's another tactics of yours - [b]DEFLECTION.

This is the difference: The quran says "he FOUND THE SUN SETTING"; Not "he SAW the sun setting". If "saw" were used your attempt at reinterpretation will hold water. But that was not the word used. And so your explanations run into murky waters.

Double standard

Even the Sahir Bukhari you quoted does not help matters. what is "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again"?
Where does the fixed Sun travel to?
Under which throne does it prostrate?
The sun PROSTRATE? How?
Which permission to rise from where?:-)

U can mock around now but a day will come when it will make a perfect sense to you

If you don't see that these are all 7th century Arabian understanding of what Mohamed thought was happening and not what a "book that existed in heaven" could have stayed then maybe you still living in the 7th century.

If you choose to stick to ANCIENT reasoning fine but please don't think everyone else can be as easily fooled as you've done to yourself.

If the quran that is said to be CLEAR need reference to "ancient practice" , chains of narrators, and understanding of classical Muslim scholars then [b]it SIMPLY IS NOT AS CLEAR AS IT SAYS IT IS

If that is so then something is wrong with the quran; don't you think?

irrelevant

You r yet to provide a single error from the Holy Quran as you claim but if you cant I will proceed to put forward the ones from the bible so, we can see if it's truly from God. Would u do us a favor to explain them pls?

aminusanti:

For a critic like you, u will always see it as unclear simply bcus your cooked up stories cant fit in. Quran is as clear as day. Exact thing was highlighted to u from ur scriptures but you simply rejected the fact

pls stop all this ur blind argument jst try n educate yourself on why some hadith re considered weak or rejected first

[b]/b] again help yourself first and things will start making sense to you

your proofs pls or just give us a single commentary on it by any mufassir.


Double standard


U can mock around now but a day will come when it will make a perfect sense to you

irrelevant

You r yet to provide a single error from the Holy Quran as you claim but if you cant I will proceed to put forward the ones from the bible so, we can see if it's truly from God. Would u do us a favor to explain them pls?

Muslims' claim that the verses of the Quran are 'as clear as day' is both ironical and a lie. This is because if the Quran is clear, as you claim, you will not need any tasfir or hadith to clarify any Qur'anic verse, but it's very unfortunate that allahh's communication is so poor that it will need human assistance to make the words of allahh clear. And to make the matter worse, Muslims will condemn both an hadith and tasfir that do not fit their arguments and narrative.

Your claim that there are no scientific errors in the Quran, not to mention the hadith, is a complete lie that only Muslims take as true. Let's good at Quran 86:7:

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted--proceedings from between the backbone and the ribs.

This claim by allahh, jibril and Mohammed is wrong. And before you claim 'out of context' see the tasfir by Ibn kathir:

Ibn Kathir:
'Referring to the creation of man from a drop of fluid gushing forth from between the backbone and the ribs, Allah emphasizes the inherent weakness of man... Allah says that man has been created from a mix of seminal fluid of man which gushes forth from the backbone and the yellowish fluid of woman that flows from her ribs.'

I don't know why allahh will say that semen is from the rib and backbone when modern science says other. If this is not a scientific error, what is it?

Visitor700:


You didn't answer my question. Is it valid to interpret (Revelation 12:1) literally?

brother stop wasting ur time on dat guy,he is not ready to accept any explanation given to him except the one he has already accept to be the truth

[quote author=true2god post=59453391]'[s]

claim that the verses of the Quran are 'as clear as day' is both ironical and a lie. This is because if the Quran is clear, as you claim, you will not need any tasfir or hadith to clarify any Qur'anic verse, but it's very unfortunate that allahh's communication is so poor that it will need human assistance to make the words of allahh clear. And to make the matter worse, Muslims will condemn both an hadith and tasfir that do not fit their arguments and narrative.

Your claim that there are no scientific errors in the Quran, not to mention the hadith, is a complete lie that only Muslims take as true.

[/s]
Nonsense as usual.

Let's good at Quran 86:7:

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted--proceedings from between the backbone and the ribs.

This claim by allahh, jibril and Mohammed is wrong. And before you claim 'out of context' see the tasfir by Ibn kathir:

Ibn Kathir:
'Referring to the creation of man from a drop of fluid gushing forth from between the backbone and the ribs, Allah emphasizes the inherent weakness of man... Allah says that man has been created from a mix of seminal fluid of man which gushes forth from the backbone and the yellowish fluid of woman that flows from her ribs.'

I don't know why allahh will say that semen is from the rib and backbone when modern science says other. If this is not a scientific error, what is it?

before I proceed to explain anything and later call it a lie out of ignorance, kindly put forward the exact scientific explanation of this gushing fluid then we can analyze your query and it will also help to know if maybe you are just copying n pasting what you yourself dnt understand from those anti-islamic site as u pple alway do..

.

aminusanti:


if truly you r careful about d queries you r posting you, your answer is in what you r posting...

The magic according to the hadith did not affect the revelations being sent to the prophet from the angel Gabriel.

Secondly, the prophet himself was conscious of the fact that something was wrong, as we read the hadith we see:

One day he invoked (Allah) for a long period and then said, "I feel that Allah has inspired me as how to cure myself

So the prophet invoked and prayed to God for help and a cure, hence the prophet was aware that there was something wrong, hence he was conscious of the problem.

Now the next parts of the hadith prove that Muhammad (pbuh) is indeed a true prophet, because remember he asks Allah for help and a cure, and Allah hears the prophet's prayer and helps him.

So notice two persons come to the prophet in a dream, two angels. As you can see they tell the prophet where the materials for the bewitchment are, and the prophet eventually goes to this location and sees it for himself.

Now one would think that the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) would go and destroy the material to be freed from the bewitchment, yet he does not. We read the most interesting part of the hadith that says: "No, for I have been cured by Allah"

So notice the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did not need to destroy the material, because God himself had cured him.

So let us summarize what we have so far:

-Evil magic was worked on the prophet

-The magic did not affect the revelations of the Quran

-The prophet asked Allah for help, which means he was conscious of a problem

-Allah sent two angels to the prophet in a dream

-The angels told Muhammad (pbuh) where to go to find the materials that were used

-The prophet goes to the location, but he does not destroy the materials

-Allah himself has cured the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

So as you can see this incident in the prophet's lifetime does not disprove his prophethood, rather it is a great proof and evidence that he is a prophet. He asks God for help, and God comes to his aid.

There is a whole moral and wisdom behind this story, and the wisdom behind this story is that if we are afflicted with some sort of evil then we must look and turn to God for the help and cure, because God is the only one who can protect and save us. This is the entire basis of this incident, that we put all our faith and trust in God.

As Allah himself says in the Noble Quran:

>>033.003<< "And put thy trust in Allah, and enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs."

>>007.196<< "For my Protector is Allah, Who revealed the Book (from time to time), and He will choose and befriend the righteous."

>>003.150<< "
Nay, Allah is your protector, and He is the best of helpers".

Lastly, all of us will be tested by God, including the prophet himself, i don't have to tell u how your Man God suffered, therefore it should not surprise us if harm comes to the prophet, as the Quran says:

>>002.214<< "Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried: "When (will come) the help of Allah?" Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!"

So in conclusion this hadith does not disprove Muhammad (pbuh) as a prophet, nor does it question his credibility. If anyone is honest with themselves they will accept the hadith for what it is, and what it says, that angels came to the prophet, and that Allah cured and healed the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Even if none of this is good enough for you, the fact is that the hadiths themselves show that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was never affected in terms of being given revelations and spreading the message of Islam.

The Bible says if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a ditch.

It is quite shocking that you will still assume that someone whose wife claimed was saying something he never did, because he was under a magical spell, will at same time be getting a divine revelation from a true god.

Can you show me any single prophet that had ever been reported to have suffered a magical or spiritual attack? Who testify, or certified, Mohammed to have been delivered from the magical spell, Aisha or Mohammed.

If a patient is sick, who certifies him OK, a doctor or the patient?