Listener07:
Sometime past I went to a church for a revival programme. During the prayer session the man of God began to prophesy and proclaimed that God revealed to him that someone (who happens to be the church sexton) is going to be involved in an accident which may possibly lead to his death.

The man (sexton) in question did not attend the service.
So prayers were rendered
for him hoping God would avert the terrible fate he was supposed to meet. The service came to an end and everybody went home.

The next day, as predicted, the man had the accident and sustained a few injuries but luckily he survived and shared his ordeal in the church to the amazement of everyone in attendance.

Now here is my question for atheists who don't believe in the existence of Gods, the supernatural, ghosts, magic (not tricks), and what not: how did the man of God come about his prophecy?

And before you rush to question the validity of the story I narrated, know that I was a witness, not that I was told by someone.

I await your response

sadly most of them believe it just luck

heendrix:

sadly most of them believe it just luck

Patiently waiting for their replies.

We are all atheists, for there is an aspect of the divine we don't believe in, probably because we don't understand or don't want to understand it.

Science has proven using the double slit experiment that consciousness alters the outcome of an event.
If we should apply that to real life situations as in the case of OP, it fits.

There is a saying, "energy flows where attention goes."
If you call that energy "God" and your attention is focused on achieving a certain thing that is where the energy will flow to, to manifest that thing.

Listener07:
Sometime past I went to a church for a revival programme. During the prayer session the man of God began to prophesy and proclaimed that God revealed to him that someone (who happens to be the church sexton) is going to be involved in an accident which may possibly lead to his death.

The man (sexton) in question did not attend the service.
So prayers were rendered
for him hoping God would avert the terrible fate he was supposed to meet. The service came to an end and everybody went home.

The next day, as predicted, the man had the accident and sustained a few injuries but luckily he survived and shared his ordeal in the church to the amazement of everyone in attendance.

Now here is my question for atheists who don't believe in the existence of Gods, the supernatural, ghosts, magic (not tricks), and what not: how did the man of God come about his prophecy?

And before you rush to question the validity of the story I narrated, know that I was a witness, not that I was told by someone.

I await your response

Did d prophet give a time frame when d accident will happen? Because I can tell u categorically now that someone in that ur church is going to make it big in life.

menxer:
We are all atheists, for there is an aspect of the divine we don't believe in, probably because we don't understand or don't want to understand it.

Science has proven using the double split experiment that consciousness alters the outcome of an event.
If we should apply that to real life situations as in the case of OP, it fits.

I am not talking about outcome, I just wanna know how the man of God got his prophecy. Simple question.

Listener07:
Sometime past I went to a church for a revival programme. During the prayer session the man of God began to prophesy and proclaimed that God revealed to him that someone (who happens to be the church sexton) is going to be involved in an accident which may possibly lead to his death.

The man (sexton) in question did not attend the service.
So prayers were rendered
for him hoping God would avert the terrible fate he was supposed to meet. The service came to an end and everybody went home.

The next day, as predicted, the man had the accident and sustained a few injuries but luckily he survived and shared his ordeal in the church to the amazement of everyone in attendance.

Now here is my question for atheists who don't believe in the existence of Gods, the supernatural, ghosts, magic (not tricks), and what not: how did the man of God come about his prophecy?

And before you rush to question the validity of the story I narrated, know that I was a witness, not that I was told by someone.

I await your response

I predict before this year runs out someone you know will either get pregnant or have a baby..

This is simple probability. What are the odds that out of a thousand 1 or 2 will have an accident in no distant time, the odds are pretty huge actually.

Making probable predictions that are in fact vague in construction is not hard believing it on your own part as act of God is to ridicule the very thing you think God stands and frankly is idiotic.

God is omniscient so his/her revelations should be less vague and more precise.

lomprico:


Did d prophet give a time frame when d accident will happen?
Because I can tell u categorically now that someone in that ur church is going to make it big in life.

Nope, he didn't give a time frame, but it happened the next day and I also detected the urgency in his voice when he spoke. But he mentioned the exact name of the person he was referring to and the person was well known.

johnydon22:


I predict before this year runs out someone you know will either get pregnant or have a baby..

This is simple probability. What are the odds that out of a thousand 1 or 2 will have an accident in no distant time, the odds are pretty huge actually.

Making probable predictions that are in fact vague in construction is not hard believing it on your own part as act of God is to ridicule the very thing you think God stands and frankly is idiotic.

God is omniscient so his/her revelations should be less vague and more precise.

Are you sure you perused the contents of this thread?

I said the pastor gave the person's exact name ragarding his prophecy, and the prophecy happened the next day so your submission is far from making any sense. Try again.

Listener07:


Nope, he didn't give a time frame, but it happened the next day and I also detected the urgency in his voice when he spoke. But he mentioned the exact name of the person he was referring to and the person was well known.

But u did not say he mentioned any name na.

lomprico:


But u did not say he mentioned any name na.

He did. He gave his exact names and also mentioned his appointment in the church. He was the sexton (a sexton is a person who dresses the altar). Let me equally add that the person is a relative of mine.

So others that have survived accidents that font even know road to church
how will u describe that one

Homeboiy:
So others that have survived accidents that font even know road to church

how will u describe that one

Don't deviate. Stay on topic please.

I'm almost certain OP's mind, especially his memory is playing tricks on him, I'm 99% certain the "prophet" didn't mention the person's name, hindsight is 20/20 and we tend to trick ourselves into finding more patterns in the past based on what is happening in the present, I'm almost certain the prophecy was a lot more vague than the one OP presented

if it so happens that the prophecy was made as you said and it happened I raise you to "Oedipus" aka self fulfilling prophecy

for those who haven't heard or have forgotten the story, Oedipus was a child the oracle predicted would marry his mother and kill his father, Oedipus then tried a lot to make sure the prophecy isn't fulfilled but every action he took to prevent it led to the fulfilment of the prophecy !, it must be noted that it would've been impossible for the prophecy to occur if nobody knew of it

what I mean is that I suspect this Sexton must've heard about the prophecy and the prayers then became anxious on the road which lead to the accident

and of course there's a possibility that the pastor actually "see" but I'm always more inclined to believing the opposite, why? think about the times that the pastor has seen but what he saw didn't happen? none? don't lie
secondly, you guys prayed, this makes the prophecy useless, open ended and sphixlike, if the prophecy comes to pass, good; if it doesn't, good; the problem here becomes obvious to any sincere person

that's my take

Listener07:

He did. He gave his exact names and also mentioned his appointment in the church. He was the sexton (a sexton is a person who dresses the altar). Let me equally add that the person is a relative of mine.

What type of accident was he involved in?

hopefulLandlord:
I'm almost certain OP's mind, especially his memory is playing tricks on him, I'm 99% certain the "prophet" didn't mention the person's name, hindsight is 20/20 and we tend to trick ourselves into finding more patterns in the past based on what is happening in the present, I'm almost certain the prophecy was a lot more vague than the one OP presented

Lol. My mind is not playing any tricks on me. I am 100% sure of everything I said and I remember every small detail perfectly as it occurred.

No. The man of god was clear and precise on what he was about. I thought I already stated that fact.

if it so happens that the prophecy was made as you said and it happened I raise you to "Oedipus" aka self fulfilling prophecy

for those who haven't heard or have forgotten the story, Oedipus was a child the oracle predicted would marry his mother and kill his father, it was then agreed that Oedipus should be killed so as to prevent the prophecy from coming to pass, this plan to kill him didn't go as planned but rather set off a series if events that ended up making the prophecy fulfilled!, it must be noted that it would've been impossible for the prophecy to occur if nobody knew of it

what I mean is that I suspect this Sexton must've heard about the prophecy and the prayers then became anxious on the road which lead to the accident

Lol. The pastor revealed his prophecy in the evening (around 8pm) during the revival programme, and by then, the sexton was yet to return from work.

and of course there's a possibility that the pastor actually "see" but I'm always more inclined to believing the opposite, why? think about the times that the pastor has seen but what he saw didn't happen? none? don't lie

Can't say. But that is not relevant here.

secondly, you guys prayed, this makes the prophecy useless, open ended and sphixlike, if the prophecy comes to pass, good; if it doesn't, good; the problem here becomes obvious to any sincere person

that's my take

What's important is the pastor said an accident will happen and it did, therefore whether prayers were made or not, or whether he survived it doesn't really matter.

Ok, let's observe the facts:

1. He said the sexton would have an accident:
This is vague vocabulary, an accident can be anything from a plane crash to a fender-bender to even a fall from the stairs. Accidents happen all the time, people get injured or worse during such events.

2. No time frame was given:
Leaving the time frame open makes a prophecy more likely to occur. Mathematically speaking, as the sample space approaches infinity (increases), the likelihood of an event occurring at least once approaches 1 (certainty). Luckily enough, this happened the next day which is why you see it as a big deal.

3. There was a prayer to avert it:
This is the perfect way to deliver a prediction, by leaving an out you are never wrong regardless of the outcome. If the accident hadn't occurred, the man wouldn't have been wrong because it was the prayer that averted the tragedy. If the sexton had died, the prediction was correct to the letter, and finally, if the accident happened and didn't lead to death - as it happened in your example - the prediction would still have been right.

There was literally no way for that prediction to completely fall flat.


Further reading: The Full Facts Book of Cold Reading, Ian Rowland (1998).

These are the tricks that psychics use written by a psychic.

lomprico:


What type of accident was he involved in?

This is a public forum. Can't disclose a sensitive info like that here. Nonetheless the accident was bloody.

Listener07:


Lol. My mind is not playing any tricks on me. I am 100% sure of everything I said and I remember every small detail perfectly as it occurred.

No. The man of god was clear and precise on what he was about. I thought I already stated that fact.



Lol. The pastor revealed his prophecy in the evening (around 8pm) during the revival programme, and by then, the sexton was yet to return from work.


Can't say. But that is not relevant here.



What's important is the pastor said an accident will happen and it did, therefore whether prayers were made or not, or whether he survived it doesn't really matter.

"Around 8PM" but he had accident the "next day", how does " 8PM change anything? or are you pulling adhoc and posthocs? I'm pretty sure even if the Sexton were a pariah, he must've heard from fellow members about the prophecy between the time of the prophecy and the "fulfilment" of it

anyways my former post is my take and I'm not here to argue against things like this although I still don't agree that you remember the prophecy "perfectly well" like you claimed cuz I've always noticed Christians pulling bible verses and saying what's happening now has been exactly predicted in the bible only for us to check that verse and see that that verse is either unrelated or totally vague at best

If I can't explain it, am pretty sure these guys can

CoolUsername:
Ok, let's observe the facts:

1. He said the sexton wound have an accident:
This is vague vocabulary, an accident can be anything from a plane crash to a fender-bender to even a fall from the stairs. Accidents happen all the time, people get injured or worse during such events.

This case is different and stands out because it was no minor accident like, tripping, falling off from stairs etc as you said. The accident was terrible and he almost bled to death if not for the timely intervention of the nurse.

2. No time frame was given:
Leaving the time frame open makes a prophecy more likely to occur. Mathematically speaking, as the sample space approaches infinity (increases), the likelihood of an event occurring at least once approaches 1 (certainty). Luckily enough, this happened the next day which is why you see it as a big deal.

3. There was a prayer to avert it:
This is the perfect way to deliver a prediction, by leaving an out you are never wrong regardless of the outcome. If the accident hadn't occurred, the man wouldn't have been wrong because it was the prayer that averted the tragedy. If the sexton had died, the prediction was correct to the letter, and finally, if the accident happened and didn't lead to death - as it happened in your example - the prediction would still have been right.

There was literally no way for that prediction to completely fall flat.


Further reading: The Full Facts Book of Cold Reading, Ian Rowland (1998).

These are the tricks that psychics use written by a psychic.

But we don't have to worry our heads on that now do we? The fact remains that the prophecy happened and that's most paramount.

hopefulLandlord:


"Around 8PM" but he had accident the "next day", how does " 8PM change anything? or are you pulling adhoc and posthocs? I'm pretty sure even if the Sexton were a pariah, he must've heard from fellow members about the prophecy between the time of the prophecy and the "fulfilment" of it

Nope. There is no way he could have heard about such an issue of great importance without discussing it with family. He was a close relative and we lived in the same house as at that time. And even if he knew, how does that bear any significance? Lol.

anyways my former post is my take and I'm not here to argue against things like this although I still don't agree that you remember the prophecy "perfectly well" like you claimed cuz I've always noticed Christians pulling bible verses and saying what's happening now has been exactly predicted in the bible only for us to check that verse and see that that verse is either unrelated or totally vague at best

I still maintain that I remember everything perfectly.
Thanks for your input.

Listener07:



I am not talking about outcome, I just wanna know how the man of God got his prophecy. Simple question.

To know how he got his prophecy, you must understand how the pineal gland works.

Besides, it is your place to tell us how he got his prophecy.

Listener07:


Nope. There is no way he could have heard about such an issue of great importance without discussing it with family. He was a close relative and we lived in the same house as at that time. And even if he knew, how does that bear any significance? Lol.

post hocs and ad hocs are popping up, this is why I don't argue against anecdotes, new stories would pop up to plug whatever argument one has against it, its now gone from "8PM" to "He's a close relative"

does it bear any significance if he knows? yes it does, didn't you read my first post well? how prophecies can end up being self fulfilling like the story of Oedipus? knowing about the prophecy puts him under pressure to make sure the prophecy isn't fulfilled (especially prophesies about An unfortunate event) which might actually lead to its fulfilment

I still maintain that I remember everything perfectly.
Thanks for your input.

I hear you

menxer:

To know how he got his prophecy, you must understand how the pineal gland works.

Can you throw more light on this

Besides, it is your place to tell us how he got his prophecy.

I already did.

Listener07:
Sometime past I went to a church for a revival programme. During the prayer session the man of God began to prophesy and proclaimed that God revealed to him that someone (who happens to be the church sexton) is going to be involved in an accident which may possibly lead to his death.

The man (sexton) in question did not attend the service.
So prayers were rendered
for him hoping God would avert the terrible fate he was supposed to meet. The service came to an end and everybody went home.

The next day, as predicted, the man had the accident and sustained a few injuries but luckily he survived and shared his ordeal in the church to the amazement of everyone in attendance.

Now here is my question for atheists who don't believe in the existence of Gods, the supernatural, ghosts, magic (not tricks), and what not: how did the man of God come about his prophecy?

And before you rush to question the validity of the story I narrated, know that I was a witness, not that I was told by someone.

I await your response

Why did the Priest reveal his revelation to the entire congregation? He could have prayed secretly with some elders for the person in question.

Listener07:

Can you throw more light on this


I already did.

Nope.
You only said, "God revealed to him," That does not explain the process or mechanism of the revealing.
how did God reveal to him?

Listener07:


This case is different and stands out because it was no minor accident like, tripping, falling off from stairs etc as you said. The accident was terrible and he almost bled to death if not for the timely intervention of the nurse.

Correct me if I'm wrong but he never described the nature of the accident.

Listener07:

But we don't have to worry our heads on that now do we? The fact remains that the prophecy happened and that's most paramount.

No, it's not. It would have happened either way. If you read what I you'll see I said that there was no way for the prediction to fail, but since you were there can you tell me how that prediction could have been wrong in any way?
If it is not falsifiable then it is not a prediction.

hopefulLandlord:


seems post hocs are popping up, this is why I don't argue against anecdotes, new stories would pop up to plug whatever argument one has against it

I wrote everything I wanted to say in the OP and I only brought up extra details because you prompted me.

does it bear any significance if he knows? yes it does, didn't you read my first post well? how prophecies can end up being self fulfilling like the story of Oedipus? knowing about the prophecy puts him under pressure to make sure the prophecy isn't fulfilled which might actually lead to its fulfilment

I hear you

Lol. Your oedipus tale is ridiculously hilarious, and coming from you an atheist, I am not surprised.

DeSepiero:


Why did the Priest reveal his revelation to the entire congregation? He could have prayed secretly with some elders for the person in question.

That's how pastors operate. Or maybe he thought it best to do it that way.

menxer:


Nope.
You only said, "God revealed to him," That does not explain the process or mechanism of the revealing.
how did God reveal to him?

Really? Am I supposed to know how God revealed the prophecy to him? Unfortunately I have lost contact with him else I would have asked him.

CoolUsername:


Correct me if I'm wrong but he never described the nature of the accident.

You are right.

No, it's not. It would have happened either way. If you read what I you'll see I said that there was no way for the prediction to fail, but since you were there can you tell me how that prediction could have been wrong in any way?
If it is not falsifiable then it is not a prediction.

Alright. I appreciate your input so far.