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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? (25113 Views)
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Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by PastorAIO: 7:29pm On Sep 10, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: As long as the name was in use then contradicting the claim of exodus then my point stands. |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by MuttleyLaff: 8:59pm On Sep 10, 2017 |
PastorAIO:Abram said to the king of Sodom, "I have lifted up my hand to Yahweh, God Most High, possessor of heaven and earth, - Genesis 14:22 1After this presentation to Israel’s leaders, Moses and Aaron went and spoke to Pharaoh. They told him, “This is what Yahweh, the God of Israel, says: Let my people go so they may hold a festival in My honor in the wilderness.” 2“Is that so?” retorted Pharaoh. “And who is Yahweh? Why should I listen to him and let Israel go? I don’t know Yahweh, and I will not let Israel go.” - Exodus 5:1-2 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as El-Shaddai (i.e. God Almighty) but by my name, Yahweh, not I did reveal unto them - Exodus 6:3 The name "was in use" or the name being in use, is quite different to knowing by experience what the name is about Pharaoh, the Israelites and neighbouring countries, got to know and see the manifestations of the name Yahweh Yahweh, aka YHWH, aka I AM, WHO I AM, aka etcetera revealed to Pharaoh, the Israelites and neighbouring countries by being Yahweh; I WILL BE THAT I WILL BE The practical exhibition and performance revealed the intrinsic meaning of Yahweh to Pharaoh, the Egyptians, the Israelites and neighbouring countries Exodus 6:3, is saying, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob know, have seen and experienced Me, as El-Shaddai (i.e. God Almighty) but they never had the opportunity to demonstrably see, know or experience Me, as Yahweh Inspite of the earlier explaination, you're still bent on allowing a false sense of triumphalism to creep into your mind and standing your point on a wobbly stool that falsely looks normal 1 Like |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by PastorAIO: 7:56am On Sep 11, 2017 |
You are a very confused person. So the full meaning of Yahweh is revealed by sending plagues to egypt? But though they were calling yahwehs name before they didn't know Yahweh because they were unaware of his full genocidal capabilities, even though he wiped out the earth with a flood. MuttleyLaff: |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by MuttleyLaff: 12:27am On Sep 12, 2017 |
PastorAIO:You will always say someone is a very confused person, if they're not giving you the answers you want to hear but since you first brought it up, thinking of it, it's really you, who is more confused than a chameleon in a bag of skittles and all because you are not paying attention and giving careful consideration to the post's each and every word Just because you know my name doesn't mean you know me Likewise, just because certain patriachs used and know Yahweh's name, doesnt mean they know Yahweh You've miscontrued all my honest and well-intended response(s) Nothing spoilt because everything will make perfect sense, when, later you understand what does Yahweh mean So for now, laugh at the confusion PastorAIO:SMH, the problem is, you're clutching on to "So the full meaning of Yahweh is revealed by sending plagues to egypt?" but failing to lay hold of the underlined in: "by my name, Yahweh, not I did reveal unto them" PastorAIO:Where are you getting "they didn't know Yahweh" from? The original text says: "by my name, Yahweh, not I did reveal unto them" "not I did reveal" are the keywords in that original text statement You have heard people say: "Maa fi han ẹ, nkan ti orukọ mi jẹ" or "Orukọ nro" meaning when loosely translated: "I will show you or reveal to you why I am called by my name" or "aptly named, he's living up to the name" PastorAIO:13Then the Lord said to Abram, “You can be sure that your descendants will be strangers in a foreign land, where they will be oppressed as slaves for 400 years. 14But I will punish the nation that enslaves them, and in the end they will come away with great wealth. 15(As for you, you will die in peace and be buried at a ripe old age.) 16After four generations your descendants will return here to this land, for the sins of the Amorites do not yet warrant their destruction.” (i.e. for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure) - Genesis 15:13-16 Your "his full genocidal capabilities" outburst, as you can see in Genesis 15:13-16 above, was God's judgement on them for their wickedness PastorAIO:Yep, even though He wiped out the earth with a flood in His capacity He wiped out the earth with a flood, in His capacity as El-Shaddai (i.e. in His capacity as God Almighty) and not as Yahweh but now, God, in effect, is telling Moses, they dont call Me Yahweh for nothing and that He wants to do justice to the name. God wants to live up to his Yahweh name He is going to meet the expectations that the Yahweh name suggests and commands You may call it nominative determinism, if you wish I know quite a few, for a start, know sarassin and know what sarassin's ID or name means I know you too, know what your Nairaland ID handle or name is but what does the PastorAIO ID name mean and do you live up to it? 2 Likes |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by truthislight: 12:33am On Sep 12, 2017 |
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Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by truthislight: 12:41am On Sep 12, 2017 |
PastorAIO: You are entitled to your personal opinion. |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by truthislight: 12:48am On Sep 12, 2017 |
PastorAIO: Lol. How can the result and outcome of one seeing every thing Bible through a thick glass/through a strongly entrenched dogmatic sentiment cum philosophy of Orthodoxy be free from bias? |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by truthislight: 1:17am On Sep 12, 2017 |
truthislight: PastorAIO: You Orthodox bias hatred for the Bible is pungent. Your fore fathers with such hate made all concerted effort to do away with the Bible. |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by PastorAIO: 5:26am On Sep 12, 2017 |
The subject that we are discussing is not the character ( half or full) of Yahweh. We are discussing the name. You are twisting so hard that you want to destroy the whole edifice of the English language as well. Yahweh, not I did reveal unto them"[/i] Now tell me, is that even grammatically correct English. Stop embarrassing yourself. Please tell us the name of the bible version that you read that translated it like that, if you're not lying. What new character did God show to them that he hadn't shown before.? MuttleyLaff: |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by PastorAIO: 5:29am On Sep 12, 2017 |
truthislight: Actually I don't hate the bible, but I do hate the way you are attempting to misuse it and to turn it into what it's not and what it never claimed to be. 1 Like |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by PastorAIO: 5:30am On Sep 12, 2017 |
You tell me, you're the well experienced expert. truthislight: |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by PastorAIO: 5:32am On Sep 12, 2017 |
truthislight: Thank you. However the meaning of Contradiction is not a matter of personal opinion. |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by MuttleyLaff: 7:54am On Sep 12, 2017 |
PastorAIO:Ose ooo meaning thank you ooo Same way I wasnt asking about your character when I typed: I know quite a few, for a start, know sarassin and know what sarassin's ID or name means I know you too, know what your Nairaland ID handle or name is but what does the PastorAIO ID name mean and do you live up to it? PastorAIO:You are trying so hard and dont want to accept that Exodus 6:3 wast originally written in English PastorAIO:You are committed to misunderstanding me No matter how carefully I present or choose my words, they'll always end up being twisted by you Look at the text analysis in the below screenshot and tell, if it isnt you embarrassing yourself PastorAIO: Your wish is my command I am reading the original, and not any particular translations nor translated versions per se PastorAIO:Here you go again getting continually preoccupied with character Though you chose to ignore it but where I earlier asked about, what does the PastorAIO ID name mean and do you live up to it I wasnt asking about your character but was asking about the PastorAIO ID name You have heard people say: "Maa fi han ẹ, nkan ti orukọ mi jẹ" or "Orukọ nro" meaning when loosely translated: "I will reveal to why I am called by my name" or "aptly named, he's living up to the name" Well, you and I, know and accept that, Yahweh means I AM THAT I AM, isnt it? We can at least agree on that, cant we? 2 Likes |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by MuttleyLaff: 8:30am On Sep 12, 2017 |
I want to believe you have now, seen I am not lying and you are honorable enough to retract that statement suggesting I am 1 Like |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by Nobody: 3:50pm On Sep 12, 2017 |
We run a huge risk when we treat biblical accounts as accurate historical renditions. In the story of Abraham for instance Genesis 11:31 says that Terah took his son and family from the land of Ur of the Chaldeans, we know that this cannot be because the Chaldeans did not exist before the 5th and 6th centuries BCE, historians date the Genesis account to somewhere around 2000BCE based only on clues found in Genesis. Not to put too fine a point on it, Abraham supposedly came from a land of people who did not exist until 1500 years after he lived. Oral tradition states Ur as the starting point for Abraham and his family, it seems entirely logical for biblical scribes to assume that the name was tied to the same place they knew in their period, this would place the composition of the Book of Genesis to around the 6th century BCE, the implications here are clear. Recent archaeological finds in the shape of the ‘Mari’ clay tablets in Syria seem to indicate that it is more likely that Abraham and his family could have come from the ‘Sumerian Ur’. I do not think it is a fait accompli that Abraham actually existed, it seems to me he is more of a composite figure and an allegory for the inception of the Jewish people, I believe he was a ‘student’ of Melchizedek literally or figuratively (just my opinion here) In any case there is as yet no actual historical context that makes Abraham or even Isaac credible historical figures. 1 Like |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by Wilgrea7(m): 4:22pm On Sep 12, 2017 |
wow.. I've learnt a lot from this thread.. kudos to the contributors |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by Nobody: 4:58pm On Sep 12, 2017 |
My point with the above post is that I would not lay too much credence on what God purportedly said to Abraham and on when or where God supposedly said these things in terms of the monotheism arguments of this thread. Genesis is in itself all over the place, for instance we have Jacob studying the Torah in his tent, a Torah that God delivered to an as yet unborn Moses but I digress! If we accept that the Book of Genesis was composed roughly in the 6th century BCE in the Priestly courts then that date range becomes crucial it places us nicely in sync with the post exilic writings of Isaiah and Ezekiel. In Ezekiel 33:24 written during the Exile (in the first half of the 6th century BCE), Ezekiel, himself an exile in Babylon, tells how those who remained in Judah were claiming ownership of the land based on inheritance from Abraham; but the prophet tells them they have no claim because they don't observe the Torah. Isaiah 63:16 similarly testifies of tension between the people of Judah and the returning post-exilic Jews stating that God is the father of Israel and that Israel's history begins with the Exodus and not with Abraham. The conclusion to be drawn is that the figure of Abraham was vital to the great landowners of Judah at the time of the exile. The Genesis stories written around the same time as the post exilic writings of Isaiah and Ezekiel served to support their claims to the land in opposition to those of the returning exiles. In other words the Book of Genesis is a bit more political in nature than doctrinal. 2 Likes |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by Nobody: 5:16pm On Sep 12, 2017 |
Op JMAN05, Traditionalists believe that the Oromo ppl of Ethiopia and Kenya traditional religion, whose God is called Waka is the oldest monotheistic religion in the world and that Moses borrowed the Ten Commandments from them. |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by Nobody: 5:57pm On Sep 12, 2017 |
Hati13: What traditionalists? and yes we know that Moses took a wrong turn in the desert but, Ethiopia? Kenya? |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by Nobody: 7:59pm On Sep 12, 2017 |
Sarassin:I don't know, but I saw online that say like this. Oromos mainly live in Ethiopia. I included Kenya, because some Oromos also live in northern Kenya. |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by truthislight: 1:10am On Sep 13, 2017 |
PastorAIO: The Bible remains what it is. THE WORD OF GOD. QED. It does not need Orthodoxy seal of approval to be it neither does it need yours. Live and lets live. Let to them, it would have been destroyed not to talk of people they have killed for owning one. Twisting the Bible and not following cum following of tradition of men is the problem and not the Bible. If certain people have lost influence that is not the Bible's fault. Christ did not bestow any such influence on any particular person. They got it through the back door. "Know the truth and the truth will set you free", the Bible says and has always says. Peace. |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by truthislight: 1:16am On Sep 13, 2017 |
PastorAIO: I see no contradiction. You wished. |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by PastorAIO: 1:34pm On Sep 13, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: Writing so many words to said total nonsense. You know the name PadtorAIO but you don't know the name my mother gave me. The day you know that name you will know the appellation by which I am called. The pronounciation etc. Enoch that walked with him, Abram that was his friend, Jacob that racked with him that he couldn't dominate....you want to claim that you know him better than they did. I can't even bother to argue over that with you. Na you sabi (as you claim quite literally along with sarcastically). But you yourself know that your position is rubbish that is why you now resort to claiming that you read the bible in Hebrew. Hahahaha! Even I had to laugh at that one. In different languages you can put the negation at different points in a sentence depending on the language. German would put it at the end. If there is no food in the table a sequentially translation of the sentences to English would go: "There is food in the table not! " But that is poor English grammar so when you translate to English you say "there isn't food in the table" In French they put it at both ends of the verb. E.g Il NE va PAS That means he is not going. You however would say: He not going not! Can you see the depths of stupidity to which you have plunged simply by trying to defend the indefensible? Unless you know something about Hebrew and English language that none of all the translators of the bible know then you are just a mendacious trickster. Exodus has Yahweh saying that he did not reveal the name Yahweh to them. Full stop. 3 Likes |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by PastorAIO: 1:40pm On Sep 13, 2017 |
truthislight: You have summarised yourself here. It is finished. Abusing qed like a buffoon. Perhaps you just don't know that q.e.d follows a successful line of argumentation and you can't just jump to it after an assertion. The d part of qed means demonatrandun. You have not demonstrated anything. Now I'm certain that fake religion has corrosive effects on the brain. 1 Like |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by truthislight: 12:02am On Sep 14, 2017 |
PastorAIO: Is this AIO? losing control? Chill men! Take a deep breath! Calm down!!! The influence driving you is impulsive hence. Must it get the Bible destroyed by all cost? Take it easy men, I know you can't and will never succeed till you spend your tweeny little days here on this part of the solar system, just as your predecessors failed you are destined to fail woefully also. The Bible cannot be destroyed. QED. Peace. Chill! ps: Guess whose brain is corrosive from the above. |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by Nobody: 2:51pm On Sep 14, 2017 |
Hati13: Lol. |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by Nobody: 3:06pm On Sep 14, 2017 |
JMAN05:My reaction when I first read it online was also like you. Oromos had tried to completely destroy my country Ethiopia and I'm mad by this, so I'm not being biased. Some Oromos even believe that it was their ancestors who built the civilizations of Egypt and Sudan. Most of their claims are myth |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by Nobody: 1:54pm On Sep 28, 2017 |
PastorAIO: I dong understand. Which books are you referring to that contains Moses death? I could remember not just Deuteronomy, but only the 34th chapter. Am I missing something? 1 Like |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by Nobody: 1:58pm On Sep 28, 2017 |
PastorAIO: Where? |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by PastorAIO: 2:25pm On Sep 28, 2017 |
JMAN05: Deuteronomy 34 And Moses the servant of the Lord died there in Moab, as the Lord had said. 6 He buried him[a] in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. 7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not we But I think I might see your point. Deuteronomy is not exodus. However we are told that they are all the five Books of Moses. |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by Nobody: 2:31pm On Sep 28, 2017 |
Sarassin: I want to see the reference. 1 Like |
Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by Nobody: 2:34pm On Sep 28, 2017 |
PastorAIO: You can only make a logical case on chapter 34 of Deut, not on all his writings. What it goes to show is that that chapter 34 was the last written piece. Whoever wrote that part, I don't know for now. 1 Like |
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