PastorAIO:



The point is simple. We know that Chapter34 was not written by Moses. Chapter 34 is part of the Torah. So therefore the Torah, at least in it's entirety, was not all written by moses. Some redaction has taken place and Chapter 34 is a glaring example of that.

One does not need to write all the things found in his book for the writing to be attributed to him. People back then do have secretaries. Jeremiah, and Paul didn't write all contained in the books attributed to them (that is a fact which is even true in modern society). However, the ultimate author of the bible is God, he can make some writings to be providentially added to Deuteronomy. There isn't much written chapter 34 anyway that far outweighs the Mosaic Law contained in the Torah.

PastorAIO:


Oh, you want to stick to just Abraham Isaac and Jacob even though the bible says that people started calling the name Jehovah from the time that Seth gave birth to Enosh. Genesis 4: 26

So what happened, they knew the name of Jehovah from the time of Seth but then they had forgotten by the time of Abraham (or what).

It will be better to go and check what I have said regarding Gods conversation with Moses. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob knew the name Jehovah. That wasn't what Moses discussions with God was about. Check the link I gave u once more.

Please tell me the Miracle that yhwh performed in egypt that was greater than what he did in Genesis 19 when he rained down fire and sulphur from heaven to come and destroy 2 whole cities and all the surrounding valleys. This was even in the lifetime of Abraham sef.

Further more how did the miracles in egypt reveal the meaning of the name Jahweh (I am who I am)?

How many miracles did Abraham see? How many did Isaac see? How many did Jacob see? I mean with there eyes. Pls I need ur answer.

PastorAIO:


Please address the parts that I bolded and highlighted in red. They are the basis of this interpretation and they are all obviously speculations.



Really? What about when Jacob asked the very same question?

29 Then Jacob asked him, “Please tell me your name.” But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?” And there he blessed him.
Genesis 32

What were the circumstances of Israel when Jacob asked that same question? What about the fact that in those ancient times to know the name of a god was considered as having the power to summon the god?

The situation in that verse is different.

1. Israelites were not under any captivity

2. Jacob already knew Gods name. See verse 9. He wrestling was with an angel obviously. So he was asking the Angel's name. He already knows Gods name.

Now the Majesty of Ra was the creator of heaven and earth, of gods, men, and cattle, of fire, and the breath of life; and he ruled over gods and men. And Isis saw his might, the might that reached over heaven and earth, before which all gods and men bowed; and she longed in her heart for that power, that thereby she should be greater than the gods and have dominion over men.

There was but one way to obtain that power. By the knowledge of his own name did Ra rule, and none but himself knew that secret name. Whosoever could learn the secret, to that one—god or man—would belong the dominion over all the world, and even Ra himself must be in subjection. Jealously did Ra guard his secret, and kept it ever in his breast, lest it should be taken from him, and his power diminished.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ael/ael13.htm


A true name is a name of a thing or being that expresses, or is somehow identical to, its true nature. The notion that language, or some specific sacred language, refers to things by their true names has been central to philosophical study as well as various traditions of magic, religious invocation and mysticism (mantras) since antiquity.
The ancient Jews considered God's true name so potent that its invocation conferred upon the speaker tremendous power over His creations. To prevent abuse of this power, as well as to avoid blasphemy, the name of God was always taboo, and increasingly disused so that by the time of Jesus their High Priest was supposedly the only individual who spoke it aloud — and then only in the Holy of Holies upon the Day of Atonement.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_name

These are facts about the attitude of ancient people to names. Even in yoruba till this day they believe that if you can know the true Oriki of an object you will access all the powers inherent in the objects. These names form the incantations which are used to prepare herbs and various objects for various uses.

Now if the people of Israel already knew the name 'Jehovah' and Moses was told to tell them that 'jehovah' sent him then what a nonsense to say that Elohim or Adonai 'would not have meant much to them'. It wouldn't have meant anymore or anyless than Jehovah which they knew a long time already.

The issue was not about the name which they know. Am not sure I do understand the point you are making here.

Now, on the name Jehovah, your write up now demonstrates a willingness to go against the entirety of Theology just to wriggle out of this tight spot.
You have now resorted to making God a temporal Creature. Subject to time like everything else. you changed 'I Am' to 'I am becoming'. Either the writer is theologically and philosophically daft or he is just trying to be disingenuous. Talkng about the relation of the verb Ehyer to Hayah. These are just tenses. They are related the same way Running is related to Ran, or Will Run. Past tense, present tense, future tense, Present continuous.... etc.

The article was about the meaning of the word Ehyah. That word was drawn from hayah. So how did you arrive at your present past tenses?

Where did you see "I am becoming"?

That is not the idea that the name represents to Jews, certainly not to Jesus. To become means that you are evolving. You become what you were not yesterday. I become great means that I wasn't great before. Becoming occurs in time/temporally so in order for Jehovah to become he has to be subject to Time. This idea transcends the Hebrew language and can be translated into other languages ( so there is no hiding behind any fake hebrew ha'yah, which is actually the past tense ). In fact it is translated to Greek in the New Testament.

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 8:58

'I am' in Greek is Ego Eimi. Jesus did not say before Abraham I am becoming. The idea is that he transcends time, this is Jesus' understanding of the name of God but then if you feel you know more than Jesus in this matter I cannot hold you.

The joke inside is that some people like Muttleylaff who isn't even a JW will jump on the bandwagon because he thinks that it is a way out of the cesspit that he has dug himself into.

You are mistaken. Ehyah is not the Hebrew equivalent of ego eimi. Egoo eimi are two different words while Ehyah is one word. It is drawn from hayah meaning become.

They aren't the same words, so your linking them together is not correct.

Don't being in unnecessary objection to this thread.

JMAN05:
The situation in that verse is different.

1. Israelites were not under any captivity

2. Jacob already knew Gods name. See verse 9. He wrestling was with an angel obviously. So he was asking the Angel's name. He already knows Gods name.

The issue was not about the name which they know. Am not sure I do understand the point you are making here.

The article was about the meaning of the word Ehyah. That word was drawn from hayah. So how did you arrive at your present past tenses?

Where did you see "I am becoming"?

You are mistaken. Ehyah is not the Hebrew equivalent of ego eimi. Egoo eimi are two different words while Ehyah is one word. It is drawn from hayah meaning become.

They aren't the same words, so your linking them together is not correct.

Don't being in unnecessary objection to this thread.

He is talking of/about the "becoming, come to pass, become, be" transliteration in Exodus 3:14

You should have by now, gotten used to him bringing in unnecessary objections to the thread and unnecessarily misusing words, just for the fun of it

PastorAIO:
Please address the parts that I bolded and highlighted in red. They are the basis of this interpretation and they are all obviously speculations.

Really? What about when Jacob asked the very same question?

29 Then Jacob asked him, “Please tell me your name.”
But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?” And there he blessed him.
Genesis 32
What were the circumstances of Israel when Jacob asked that same question?
What about the fact that in those ancient times to know the name of a god was considered as having the power to summon the god?

PastorAIO:
Now the Majesty of Ra was the creator of heaven and earth, of gods, men, and cattle, of fire, and the breath of life; and he ruled over gods and men. And Isis saw his might, the might that reached over heaven and earth, before which all gods and men bowed; and she longed in her heart for that power, that thereby she should be greater than the gods and have dominion over men.

There was but one way to obtain that power. By the knowledge of his own name did Ra rule, and none but himself knew that secret name. Whosoever could learn the secret, to that one—god or man—would belong the dominion over all the world, and even Ra himself must be in subjection. Jealously did Ra guard his secret, and kept it ever in his breast, lest it should be taken from him, and his power diminished.
h t tp://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ael/ael13.htm
A true name is a name of a thing or being that expresses, or is somehow identical to, its true nature.
The notion that language, or some specific sacred language, refers to things by their true names has been central to philosophical study as well as various traditions of magic, religious invocation and mysticism (mantras) since antiquity.
The ancient Jews considered God's true name so potent that its invocation conferred upon the speaker tremendous power over His creations

When Jesus said to them,
“I am, he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
- John 18:6
You can say "God's true name so potent that its invocation conferred upon the speaker tremendous power over His creations" again
Notice what happened, notice the force of the power over those men, after Jesus said the name

PastorAIO:
To prevent abuse of this power, as well as to avoid blasphemy, the name of God was always taboo, and increasingly disused so that by the time of Jesus their High Priest was supposedly the only individual who spoke it aloud
— and then only in the Holy of Holies upon the Day of Atonement.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_name

These are facts about the attitude of ancient people to names.
Even in yoruba till this day they believe that if you can know the true Oriki of an object you will access all the powers inherent in the objects.
These names form the incantations which are used to prepare herbs and various objects for various uses.

Oriki is nothing more or less than panegyric
It is recited to invoke deities and whatnot spirits

Oriki, as well, is used as eulogies,
and also used as endearments, where there is talk about pedigree and likeable traits etcetera, all to stir up sensibilities positively

PastorAIO:
Now if the people of Israel already knew the name 'Jehovah'
and Moses was told to tell them that 'jehovah' sent him
then what a nonsense to say that Elohim or Adonai 'would not have meant much to them'.
It wouldn't have meant anymore or anyless than Jehovah which they knew a long time already

First and foremost, Elohim or Adonai are not personal names
YHWH, aka Yahweh, or aka Jehovah, is the personal

Elohim is Godhood, and Adonai is Owner aka Lord

PastorAIO:
Yet in all this you haven't demonstrated how Jehovah changed after he revealed his name to Moses.
What did he do thereafter that he hadn't done before.
Did he kill more people than he killed in the flood?
Did he confuse the languages of the Whole world tenfold?
Did he make a barren woman have children, like Sarah?

You can't see the wood for the trees,
reiterating, it's not about what did He do thereafter, that He hadn't done before

PastorAIO:
What exactly did he do that reflects the name Jehovah that He hadn't done before?

This has been responded to earlier

PastorAIO:
Now, on the name Jehovah, your write up now demonstrates a willingness to go against the entirety of Theology just to wriggle out of this tight spot.
You have now resorted to making God a temporal Creature.
Subject to time like everything else. you changed 'I Am' to 'I am becoming'.
Either the writer is theologically and philosophically daft or he is just trying to be disingenuous

ROTBL. SMH

PastorAIO:
Talkng about the relation of the verb Ehyer to Hayah.
These are just tenses.
They are related the same way Running is related to Ran, or Will Run.
Past tense, present tense, future tense, Present continuous.... etc.

There is no such thing as these kind of "tenses" in biblical Hebrew.
Mind you, meaning before you start quoting me, modern Hebrew, on the other hand, does have those tenses

PastorAIO:
That is not the idea that the name represents to Jews, certainly not to Jesus.
To become means that you are evolving.
You become what you were not yesterday.
I become great means that I wasn't great before.
Becoming occurs in time/temporally so in order for Jehovah to become he has to be subject to Time.
This idea transcends the Hebrew language and can be translated into other languages
(so there is no hiding behind any fake hebrew ha'yah, which is actually the past tense)

The idea is understood in the context it is used
(e.g. become, exist, to be, becoming, existing)

PastorAIO:
In fact it is translated to Greek in the New Testament.
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am
- John 8:58

'I am' in Greek is Ego Eimi. Jesus did not say before Abraham I am becoming.
The idea is that he transcends time, this is Jesus' understanding of the name of God but then if you feel you know more than Jesus in this matter I cannot hold you.

Dont mix up "I AM that I AM" with "I AM".
Again context my friend,
you're again gnawing on another wrong bone and mixing up what was said
and how "I AM" is used in John 8:58 with how it's used in Exodus 3:14, without taking in to account the context and type of verb used
Go and find out what biblical hebrew verb is used in Exodus 3:14

Jesus, in John 8:58, is saying, before Abraham, "I exist", the audience understood the meaning, and that's why they went ballistic crazy
I, (i.e. Ego) the first-person pronoun,
Exist, (i.e. Eimi), as in "to be" infinitive verb
or "be", "am", "is" present tense first-person verb

JMAN05:


The situation in that verse is different.

1. Israelites were not under any captivity

2. Jacob already knew Gods name. See verse 9. He wrestling was with an angel obviously. So he was asking the Angel's name. He already knows Gods name.

1.Please you'll have to tell me what captivity has to do with God's name. Does it change when you're not in captivity to another form when you are in captivity?

2. They were all angels.

2And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed. Exodus 3

The burning bush was an angel (Moses), the wrestler was an angel (Jacob).

PastorAIO:



1.Please you'll have to tell me what captivity has to do with God's name. Does it change when you're not in captivity to another form when you are in captivity?

2. They were all angels.

2And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed. Exodus 3

The burning bush was an angel (Moses), the wrestler was an angel (Jacob).

No. The one that appeared to Moses came on Jehovah's name. He bore the name as if he was Jah himself. Besides Moses was not requesting the name of God. He already knows it.

It appears you have nothing more. Let's end it then.

JMAN05:


No. The one that appeared to Moses came on Jehovah's name. He bore the name as if he was Jah himself. Besides Moses was not requesting the name of God. He already knows it.

It appears you have nothing more. Let's end it then.

I have plenty more, the question is whether or not you can handle it.

If the angel that appeared to Moses came in Jehovah's name then by what name did the one who came to Jacob come by.

Was he a renegade angel?

Moses was not asking god's name cos 'he already knows it', you say.

You also say Jacob was not asking god's name 'he already knows it', he was asking the angel's name.

Maybe Moses too was just asking the angel's name, abi?

JMAN05:



You are mistaken. Ehyah is not the Hebrew equivalent of ego eimi. Egoo eimi are two different words while Ehyah is one word. It is drawn from hayah meaning become.

They aren't the same words, so your linking them together is not correct.

Don't being in unnecessary objection to this thread.

Ego Eimi = I am (greek)

Eh yeh = I am (hebrew)

Have you heard of Syllogism.

an instance of a form of reasoning in which a conclusion is drawn from two given or assumed propositions (premises); a common or middle term is present in the two premises but not in the conclusion, which may be invalid (e.g. all dogs are animals; all animals have four legs; therefore all dogs have four legs ).

Let's practice a little bit of syllogistic reasoning with Ego Eimi and Eh yeh.

first let's consider these numbers...

2+3 =5 ' 4+1 = 5. Could we therefore say that 2+3 = 4+1? I say yes. This is not even syllogism, it is identity recognition.

So ...

Ego Eimi = I am (greek)

Eh yeh = I am (hebrew)

Therefore Ego Eimi = Eh yeh

True or false?

JMAN05:
No. The one that appeared to Moses came on Jehovah's name.
He bore the name as if he was Jah himself.
Besides Moses was not requesting the name of God. He already knows it.

It appears you have nothing more.
Let's end it then

PastorAIO:
I have plenty more, the question is whether or not you can handle it.
If the angel that appeared to Moses came in Jehovah's name then by what name did the one who came to Jacob come by.
Was he a renegade angel?
Moses was not asking god's name cos 'he already knows it', you say.
You also say Jacob was not asking god's name 'he already knows it', he was asking the angel's name.
Maybe Moses too was just asking the angel's name, abi?

Great White Sharks can detect a single drop of blood floating in an Olympic-sized thread pool
Can smell blood in thread water from 4km away
Can hear a fish thrasing in thread the water from as far as 500 meters away

JMAN05, you want to continue feeding?
Then you're going to need to get into a bigger boat, as there's blood in the water.
Sharks go into frenzies when they smell blood in the water,
it's sensing something becoming shark food to be feasted on

PastorAIO:


Ego Eimi = I am (greek)

Eh yeh = I am (hebrew)

Have you heard of Syllogism.

an instance of a form of reasoning in which a conclusion is drawn from two given or assumed propositions (premises); a common or middle term is present in the two premises but not in the conclusion, which may be invalid (e.g. all dogs are animals; all animals have four legs; therefore all dogs have four legs ).

Let's practice a little bit of syllogistic reasoning with Ego Eimi and Eh yeh.

first let's consider these numbers...

2+3 =5 ' 4+1 = 5. Could we therefore say that 2+3 = 4+1? I say yes. This is not even syllogism, it is identity recognition.

So ...

Ego Eimi = I am (greek)

Eh yeh = I am (hebrew)

Therefore Ego Eimi = Eh yeh

True or false?

No, it doesn't work that way. Ehyah is one word. Eh does not mean "I"as you posit.

JMAN05:


No, it doesn't work that way. Ehyah is one word. Eh does not mean "I"as you posit.

Where did I say eh means I?

Please just answer one by one.

Ehyer means 'I am'

Sono means 'i am' in Italian

Ego eimi means 'I am' in Greek.

Please for each of these lines can you answer whether true or false?

JMAN05:


No, it doesn't work that way. Ehyah is one word. Eh does not mean "I"as you posit.

You can cut straight to the chase by answering simply,

Ego Eimi = Eh'yer

True or false?

PastorAIO:


Please address the parts that I bolded and highlighted in red. They are the basis of this interpretation and they are all obviously speculations.



Really? What about when Jacob asked the very same question?

29 Then Jacob asked him, “Please tell me your name.” But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?” And there he blessed him.
Genesis 32

What were the circumstances of Israel when Jacob asked that same question? What about the fact that in those ancient times to know the name of a god was considered as having the power to summon the god?

Now the Majesty of Ra was the creator of heaven and earth, of gods, men, and cattle, of fire, and the breath of life; and he ruled over gods and men. And Isis saw his might, the might that reached over heaven and earth, before which all gods and men bowed; and she longed in her heart for that power, that thereby she should be greater than the gods and have dominion over men.

There was but one way to obtain that power. By the knowledge of his own name did Ra rule, and none but himself knew that secret name. Whosoever could learn the secret, to that one—god or man—would belong the dominion over all the world, and even Ra himself must be in subjection. Jealously did Ra guard his secret, and kept it ever in his breast, lest it should be taken from him, and his power diminished.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ael/ael13.htm


A true name is a name of a thing or being that expresses, or is somehow identical to, its true nature. The notion that language, or some specific sacred language, refers to things by their true names has been central to philosophical study as well as various traditions of magic, religious invocation and mysticism (mantras) since antiquity.
The ancient Jews considered God's true name so potent that its invocation conferred upon the speaker tremendous power over His creations. To prevent abuse of this power, as well as to avoid blasphemy, the name of God was always taboo, and increasingly disused so that by the time of Jesus their High Priest was supposedly the only individual who spoke it aloud — and then only in the Holy of Holies upon the Day of Atonement.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_name

These are facts about the attitude of ancient people to names. Even in yoruba till this day they believe that if you can know the true Oriki of an object you will access all the powers inherent in the objects. These names form the incantations which are used to prepare herbs and various objects for various uses.

Now if the people of Israel already knew the name 'Jehovah' and Moses was told to tell them that 'jehovah' sent him then what a nonsense to say that Elohim or Adonai 'would not have meant much to them'. It wouldn't have meant anymore or anyless than Jehovah which they knew a long time already.


Yet in all this you haven't demonstrated how Jehovah changed after he revealed his name to Moses. What did he do thereafter that he hadn't done before. Did he kill more people than he killed in the flood? Did he confuse the languages of the Whole world tenfold? Did he make a barren woman have children, like Sarah? What exactly did he do that reflects the name Jehovah that he hadn't done before?


Now, on the name Jehovah, your write up now demonstrates a willingness to go against the entirety of Theology just to wriggle out of this tight spot.
You have now resorted to making God a temporal Creature. Subject to time like everything else. you changed 'I Am' to 'I am becoming'. Either the writer is theologically and philosophically daft or he is just trying to be disingenuous. Talkng about the relation of the verb Ehyer to Hayah. These are just tenses. They are related the same way Running is related to Ran, or Will Run. Past tense, present tense, future tense, Present continuous.... etc.

That is not the idea that the name represents to Jews, certainly not to Jesus. To become means that you are evolving. You become what you were not yesterday. I become great means that I wasn't great before. Becoming occurs in time/temporally so in order for Jehovah to become he has to be subject to Time. This idea transcends the Hebrew language and can be translated into other languages ( so there is no hiding behind any fake hebrew ha'yah, which is actually the past tense ). In fact it is translated to Greek in the New Testament.

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 8:58

'I am' in Greek is Ego Eimi. Jesus did not say before Abraham I am becoming. The idea is that he transcends time, this is Jesus' understanding of the name of God but then if you feel you know more than Jesus in this matter I cannot hold you.

The joke inside is that some people like Muttleylaff who isn't even a JW will jump on the bandwagon because he thinks that it is a way out of the cesspit that he has dug himself into.

I don't see why you are finding it had to see what the JW Explanation is saying. That was not my argument initially, but going through that write up, it became very apparent what they were saying.

They are saying that the message of Exodus 6:3 is about the meaning of Jehovah and not literally the introduction of the name. The same book of Exodus interpolated the name Jehovah with the Phrase 'I AM', and this two is used interchangeably as a name to the same person.

Again. when Yahweh was asked by Moses what he is to tell to Pharaoh and the children of Israel he told him to tell them that he is "I AM THAT I AM" and that this is his name for ever and ever. Did Yahweh forgot his "name" As being Yahweh There? (Exodus 3:13-15)

At what point then will his name be changed again from "I AM THAT I AM" to Jehovah considering that the name I AM THAT I AM" is to be his name that will last for ever and ever?

I accepted that explanation because it is logical and shades light to why he had earlier rather given explanation to Moses Initially and that the initial I AM THAT I AM is a name and when he later mention Yahweh in Exodus 6:3, He was reffering to his name I AM THAT THAT I AM. Meaning that the two names means the same thing and that meaning is what Moses is to take to both Pharaoh and the Israelite's.

If you don't see it hence, you have to explain why Yahweh presented his name as the sequence below:




Exodus 3:13-15

King James Version (KJV)
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


Exodus6:1-3
6 So Jehovah said to Moses: “Now you will see what I will do to Pharʹaoh.+ A mighty hand will force him to send them away, and a mighty hand will force him to drive them out of his land.”+2 Then God said to Moses: “I am Jehovah. 3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty,+but with regard to my name Jehovah+ I did not make myself known to them.


Peace

truthislight:



I don't see why you are finding it had to see what the JW Explanation is saying. That was not my argument initially, but going through that write up, it became very apparent what they were saying.

They are saying that the message of Exodus 6:3 is about the meaning of Jehovah and not literally the introduction of the name. The same book of Exodus interpolated the name Jehovah with the Phrase 'I AM', and this two is used interchangeably as a name to the same person.

Again. when Yahweh was asked by Moses what he is to tell to Pharaoh and the children of Israel he told him to tell them that he is "I AM THAT I AM" and that this is his name for ever and ever. Did Yahweh forgot his "name" As being Yahweh There? (Exodus 3:13-15)

At what point then will his name be changed again from "I AM THAT I AM" to Jehovah considering that the name I AM THAT I AM" is to be his name that will last for ever and ever?

I accepted that explanation because it is logical and shades light to why he had earlier rather given explanation to Moses Initially and that the initial I AM THAT I AM is a name and when he later mention Yahweh in Exodus 6:3, He was reffering to his name I AM THAT THAT I AM. Meaning that the two names means the same thing and that meaning is what Moses is to take to both Pharaoh and the Israelite's.

If you don't see it hence, you have to explain why Yahweh presented his name as the sequence below:




Exodus 3:13-15

King James Version (KJV)
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


Exodus6:1-3
6 So Jehovah said to Moses: “Now you will see what I will do to Pharʹaoh.+ A mighty hand will force him to send them away, and a mighty hand will force him to drive them out of his land.”+2 Then God said to Moses: “I am Jehovah. 3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty,+but with regard to my name Jehovah+ I did not make myself known to them.


Peace

Am not particular about winning argument when it comes to the Bible but to make sure i get it right.

With the above arrangement, I can only conclud that Yahweh made some mistakes In either Exodus 3:15 or Exodus 6:3 as regard knowing the pronunciation of his name or the way it sounds and if it is one word or a phrase.

Going by your Logic that is.

Peace

*Edited*

Perhaps you would like to help jman5 answer the question of whether ego eimi = ehyer.

He might appreciate it.

As regards the jehovah witness site, I assume you're a jw, if so, please, don't be shy, I understood what it was saying, or rather what it was trying to say.

What it doesn't say though is that 1) ehyer is Hebrew language.
2) there is no jehovah in the bible, only the four letters YHWH (yod he vau he). Some pronounce it Yahweh some jehovah some just jah or yah.
Presumably the original name was in Hebrew. Presumably then YHWH was just an Acronym for I am that I am.

This happens a lot. For example a Yoruba man will tell you that Orunmila means .. Orun Mo Eni ti o La ( only heaven knows who will be saved).

3)so Yahweh did not have to forget his name. He was just de-acronymising it.
Like some people say Olodumare is the owner of the Odu that progresses. Olu Odu mare.
Etc


Please a question remains without an answer.

How did YHWH demonstrate his name to the Israelites that wasn't before witnessed.? What great plague did he wreak on pharaoh that he hadn't wreaked on him before? After all even the plagues sef, he had already done that during the time of abram on account of Sarai.

truthislight:



I don't see why you are finding it had to see what the JW Explanation is saying. That was not my argument initially, but going through that write up, it became very apparent what they were saying.

They are saying that the message of Exodus 6:3 is about the meaning of Jehovah and not literally the introduction of the name. The same book of Exodus interpolated the name Jehovah with the Phrase 'I AM', and this two is used interchangeably as a name to the same person.

Again. when Yahweh was asked by Moses what he is to tell to Pharaoh and the children of Israel he told him to tell them that he is "I AM THAT I AM" and that this is his name for ever and ever. Did Yahweh forgot his "name" As being Yahweh There? (Exodus 3:13-15)

At what point then will his name be changed again from "I AM THAT I AM" to Jehovah considering that the name I AM THAT I AM" is to be his name that will last for ever and ever?

I accepted that explanation because it is logical and shades light to why he had earlier rather given explanation to Moses Initially and that the initial I AM THAT I AM is a name and when he later mention Yahweh in Exodus 6:3, He was reffering to his name I AM THAT THAT I AM. Meaning that the two names means the same thing and that meaning is what Moses is to take to both Pharaoh and the Israelite's.

If you don't see it hence, you have to explain why Yahweh presented his name as the sequence below:




Exodus 3:13-15

King James Version (KJV)
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


Exodus6:1-3
6 So Jehovah said to Moses: “Now you will see what I will do to Pharʹaoh.+ A mighty hand will force him to send them away, and a mighty hand will force him to drive them out of his land.”+2 Then God said to Moses: “I am Jehovah. 3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty,+but with regard to my name Jehovah+ I did not make myself known to them.


Peace

truthislight:


Am not particular about winning argument when it comes to the Bible but to make sure i get it right.

With the above arrangement, I can only conclud that Yahweh made some mistakes In either Exodus 3:15 or Exodus 6:3 as regard knowing the pronunciation of his name or the way it sounds and if it is one word or a phrase.

Peace

I'm pretty sure that the mistakes are all human.

For example when you say:

I accepted that explanation because it is logical and shades light to why he had earlier rather given explanation to Moses Initially and that the initial I AM THAT I AM is a name and when he later mention Yahweh in Exodus 6:3, He was reffering to his name I AM THAT THAT I AM. Meaning that the two names means the same thing and that meaning is what Moses is to take to both Pharaoh and the Israelite's.

you forgot that YHWH was mentioned in Exodus 3 too. He didn't wait till Exodus 6 before mentioning YHWH.

Exodus 3
15God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘YHWH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

So, NO, he didn't forget his name.

truthislight:


Am not particular about winning argument when it comes to the Bible but to make sure i get it right.

With the above arrangement, I can only conclud that Yahweh made some mistakes In either Exodus 3:15 or Exodus 6:3 as regard knowing the pronunciation of his name or the way it sounds and if it is one word or a phrase.

Going by your Logic that is.

Peace

*Edited*

I Edited this above to include the red.

Well, I'm sorry, but 'my logic' does not say what you claim it says.

I am not astonished that you are quickly deserting that which was given to you in the grace of Rationality and turning to a different logic. (verse 7) Not that there is even a different Logic, But something is disturbing you and causing you to leave the Logic of Rationality. (vs8) even if I or even an angel from heaven should teach you any Logic contrary to the one that you received let him be cursed. (9) I don talk am o, and I even fit talk am again... (10) If anyone should teach you another logic other than the innate one that you received then let him be cursed.

truthislight:


I Edited this above to include the red.

Endeavor to stay on point please.

PastorAIO:


3)so Yahweh did not have to forget his name. He was just de-acronymising it.
Like some people say Olodumare is the owner of the Odu that progresses. Olu Odu mare.
Etc

Yeah! Whatever you say.

I see the "de-acronymising", as long as you are the one that stated it i have no further option than to accept whatever you said.

Meanwhile, have another look at the de-acronymising" below again at this two instances:

Exodus 3:13-15

King James Version (KJV)
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM thath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

AND

Exodus 6:1-3
6 So Jehovah said to Moses: “Now you will see what I will do to Pharʹaoh A mighty hand will force him to send them away, and a mighty hand will force him to drive them out of his land.”+2 Then God said to Moses: “I YHWH. 3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty,+but with regard to my name YHWH I did not make myself known to them.
................................................................................................................................................................................................


So, "I AM THAT THAT I AM" is an acronym for Yahweh right?

LOL.

Must I agree with the above?
You must be thinking that I accept any thing any magician pulls out from his hat.

No Yahweh means I AM THAT I AM , no need to try to change the obvious.

PastorAIO:


Please a question remains without an answer.

How did YHWH demonstrate his name to the Israelites that wasn't before witnessed.? What great plague did he wreak on pharaoh that he hadn't wreaked on him before? After all even the plagues sef, he had already done that during the time of abram on account of Sarai.

Exodus 3:20

So I will have to stretch out my hand and strike Egypt with all my extraordinary acts that I will do in it, and after that he will send you out.[/color]

Am not the one that said that what he will do to the Egyptians and Pharaoh will be extraordinary acts, Yahweh said so himself.

I am not forcing you to agree with me sir. Where you don't agree I would welcome intelligent arguments that refute my position. Other than that I don't think I want anything from you.

Now, you've asked me to stay on point. Pray tell, where did I stray from the point?

Also, could you please look up the meaning of the word Acronym.
I'll give an example here, but still look it up for yourself, in case you don't agree with me.

Every Christian knows the term Ichthus and they all know that it means Jesus Christ, the son of God, Saviour.
Ichthus is an acronym.

Every christian knows that IHS means Jesus. INRI means Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews.

IHS, INRI and Ichthus are acronyms.

Fela's song BBC is an acronym for Big Blind Country.

etc

Now you haven't addressed the fact that your king james' bible translates YHWH as Lord. Verse 15 of Exodus 3 says: ‘YHWH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’

......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

No, you don't have to accept that YHWH is an acronym for I AM THAT I AM.

what you cannot deny however is that you do not know the name, because it is not Jehovah. All we have are the 4 letters. Some people guess that the missing vowels make it Yahweh. Others guess that it may be Jehovah. But the fact is that it is lost. Nobody knows. We have the 4 letters which is an acronym of the true name.

Unless you think that the Hebrews pronounced his name without using vowels. Imagine a language without vowels. you won't be sure if the person is talking or has some kind of nervous tic.


And lastly, I never said that the plagues in Egypt were not extraordinary acts. I said, because it was claimed that YHWH was going to reveal something himself that was previously unknown, that he didn't do anything more amazing than he did before. and furthermore I don't see how the plagues in Egypt are an expression of the idea of I AM.

truthislight:
Endeavor to stay on point please.



Yeah! Whatever you say.

I see the "de-acronymising", as long as you are the one that stated it i have no further option than to accept whatever you said.

Meanwhile, have another look at the de-acronymising" below again at this two instances:

Exodus 3:13-15

King James Version (KJV)
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM thath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

AND

Exodus 6:1-3
6 So Jehovah said to Moses: “Now you will see what I will do to Pharʹaoh A mighty hand will force him to send them away, and a mighty hand will force him to drive them out of his land.”+2 Then God said to Moses: “I YHWH. 3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty,+but with regard to my name YHWH I did not make myself known to them.
................................................................................................................................................................................................


So, "I AM THAT THAT I AM" is an acronym for Yahweh right?

LOL.

Must I agree with the above?
You must be thinking that I accept any thing any magician pulls out from his hat.




Exodus 3:20

So I will have to stretch out my hand and strike Egypt with all my [color=red]extraordinary acts that I will do in it, and after that he will send you out.[/color]

Am not the one that said that what he will do to the Egyptians and Pharaoh will be extraordinary acts, Yahweh said so himself.

PastorAIO:



you forgot that YHWH was mentioned in Exodus 3 too. He didn't wait till Exodus 6 before mentioning YHWH.

Not just Yahweh, but I AM THAT I AM was mentioned in chapter 3.

Exodus 3:13-15

King James Version (KJV)
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM thath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

And one of the names is explaining something about the bearer unlike the YHWH. Meaning that what he was actually doing to Moses there has to do with explaining More about himself. Definitely, I AM THAT I AM contains more in it than YHWH. Has he ever before introduced himself like That? I AM THAT I AM? Nope!

And he said that I AM THAT I AM will be his name for ever.

Call it Acronym or not, it does not change a thing.

PastorAIO:

Exodus 3
15 God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘YHWH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

So, NO, he didn't forget his name.

Is the above only what you saw in chapter 3 of Exodus? SMH. You did not see verses 14 before the 15 you quoted?

See it below from Kingjames version:


Exodus 3:13-15

King James Version (KJV)
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM thath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


AND

Exodus 6:1-3
6 So Jehovah said to Moses: “Now you will see what I will do to Pharʹaoh A mighty hand will force him to send them away, and a mighty hand will force him to drive them out of his land.”+2 Then God said to Moses: “I YHWH. 3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty,+but with regard to my name YHWH I did not make myself known to them.

*Edited*

PastorAIO:



I'm pretty sure that the mistakes are all human.

The mistakethat am talking about that Yahweh made is curtsy of AIO.

PastorAIO:
Well, I'm sorry, but 'my logic' does not say what you claim it says.

I am not astonished that you are quickly deserting that which was given to you in the grace of Rationality and turning to a different logic. (verse 7) Not that there is even a different Logic, But something is disturbing you and causing you to leave the Logic of Rationality. (vs8) even if I or even an angel from heaven should teach you any Logic contrary to the one that you received let him be cursed. (9) I don talk am o, and I even fit talk am again... (10) If anyone should teach you another logic other than the innate one that you received then let him be cursed.

But You said that "I AM THAT I AM" is a mere

PastorAIO:
de-acronymising

You are teaching me something. Lol.

.

PastorAIO:
Well, I'm sorry, but 'my logic' does not say what you claim it says.

I am not astonished that you are quickly deserting that which was given to you in the grace of Rationality and turning to a different logic. (verse 7) Not that there is even a different Logic, But something is disturbing you and causing you to leave the Logic of Rationality. (vs8) even if I or even an angel from heaven should teach you any Logic contrary to the one that you received let him be cursed. (9) I don talk am o, and I even fit talk am again... (10) If anyone should teach you another logic other than the innate one that you received then let him be cursed.

But You said that "I AM THAT I AM" is a mere

PastorAIO:
de-acronymising it

Implying that it does not mean a thing nor is it spectacular? Even thought that is the first name Yahweh gave to Moses. SMH.
You are teaching me something. Lol.

Truthislight. Please explain yourself.

Are you saying that I Am that I am is a separate name from YHWH that has nothing to do with it?

Have you found out what an acronym means yet? Do you agree that YHWH is an acronym?

An acronym is a word or name formed as an abbreviation from the initial components in a phrase or a word, usually individual letters (as in NATO or laser) and sometimes syllables (as in Benelux). There are no universal standards of the multiple names for such abbreviations and of their orthographic styling.

-Wikipedia


No one today knows the full name that was written as YHWH. You claim Jehovah. Just as well might be Yahoo-waahoo for you.

truthislight:
.

Haba, why you go delete am na?


I was under the impression that you and the other discussants were all reading from the same hymn sheet so if someone says that I Am what I am is YHWH and you are defending the person then I presume that is your position too.

To be honest your position is no longer clear, you've over dribbled yourself.

This all started from Exodus 6:3.
YHWH said his name is YHWH and he did not reveal himself to Abraham as YHWH. Yet we see evidence that YHWH was used before Moses' time.

To defend this you (or whoever) brought in I am who I am saying that they didn't know the full power of the name and YHWH was saying that they are about to see the full power. (no one has answered me on how he demonstrated the full power)

Finally, are you trying to pull as fast one with all that 'this is my memorial to all generations' etc.

If YHWH and I Am are two different names then why is it not YHWH that will be his name forever?

This is verse 15:

15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


What I get from your posts is that YHWH and IAM are two totally different names with nothing to do with each other.

In that case you can argue that YHWH is not an acronym for IAM .....bla bla. I'll accept that.

but that does nothing for the initial problem which is that YHWH claims that Abraham did not know his name YHWH while there is a record of Abraham calling him by that name.

PastorAIO:
Truthislight. Please explain yourself.

Are you saying that I Am that I am is a separate name from YHWH that has nothing to do with it?

Have you found out what an acronym means yet? Do you agree that YHWH is an acronym?

-Wikipedia


No one today knows the full name that was written as YHWH. You claim Jehovah. Just as well might be Yahoo-waahoo for you.



Haba, why you go delete am na?


I was under the impression that you and the other discussants were all reading from the same hymn sheet so if someone says that I Am what I am is YHWH and you are defending the person then I presume that is your position too.

To be honest your position is no longer clear, you've over dribbled yourself.

This all started from Exodus 6:3.
YHWH said his name is YHWH and he did not reveal himself to Abraham as YHWH. Yet we see evidence that YHWH was used before Moses' time.

To defend this you (or whoever) brought in I am who I am saying that they didn't know the full power of the name and YHWH was saying that they are about to see the full power. (no one has answered me on how he demonstrated the full power)

Finally, are you trying to pull as fast one with all that 'this is my memorial to all generations' etc.

If YHWH and I Am are two different names then why is it not YHWH that will be his name forever?

This is verse 15:

15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


What I get from your posts is that YHWH and IAM are two totally different names with nothing to do with each other.

In that case you can argue that YHWH is not an acronym for IAM .....bla bla. I'll accept that.

but that does nothing for the initial problem which is that YHWH claims that Abraham did not know his name YHWH while there is a record of Abraham calling him by that name.

It's like the other discussant has given up and left and am beginning to understand the reason why. If at this point with all the post i have made you can still come up to say you don't understand what i have been saying, then am perplex at your rigid mind set and narrowness to your thoughts.

For the sack of fairness, let me state again what i have stated all along, which is:

That the discussion Yahweh had with Moses was to let him(Moses) to get the meaning of his name which is contained in the Initial statement he gave to Moses in verese 14 of Chapter 3 >I AM THAT I AM<.

That, Yahweh said it is his name for ever. Implying that "I AM THAT I AM" is the meaning of Yahweh, Hence, Yahweh could also as well Refer to > YHWH < as his name as well that will last for ever.

If you don't want to see I AM THAT I AM as the meaning of Yahweh, that is your cup of tea.

(Acronym can be form by taking the first later of a phrase to form a word, which YHWH is NOT such to "I AM THAT I AM" ).
..................................................................................................................................................................................................

If For instance, i bare the name 'Indomitable' and it means "THAT CANNOT BE GOVERN" does not mean i will be introducing myself by the phrase "THAT CANNOT BE GOVERN". NO. And not on a serious matter or instances like Yahweh to Moses.

I can only tell you such if i have reason to explain to you who i am in an instance that i am angry and challenged, i can tell such a foe that i will let him know that i am :"THAT CANNOT BE GOVERN". (As in the instance of YHWH to Pharoah)

That is the way normal communication goes.

It is up to you to take what you want, that Yahweh rather introduced himself to Moses Firstly with an acronym.

(Note that verse 14 comes before verse 15 in that exodus chapter 3.)



Peace.

PS:

"UNICEF" is an acronym for "United Nation International Children Emergency Fund".
(I cannot see how YHWH is the .....................For I AM THAT I AM)

truthislight:


That the discussion Yahweh had with Moses was to let him(Moses) to get the meaning of his name which is contained in the Initial statement he gave to Moses in verese 14 of Chapter 3 >I AM THAT I AM<.

That, Yahweh said it is his name for ever. Implying that "I AM THAT I AM" is the meaning of Yahweh, Hence, Yahweh could also as well Refer to > YHWH < as his name as well that will last for ever.

If you don't want to see I AM THAT I AM as the meaning of Yahweh, that is your cup of tea.

I thought you were trying to say that they had nothing to do with each other. So you agree that I Am.... refers to YHWH.

Now that we've sorted out that misunderstanding can you now tell me how IAmThat IAm was revealed that wasn't revealed before?

truthislight:


"UNICEF" is an acronym for "United Nation International Children Emergency Fund".
(I cannot see how YHWH is the .....................For I AM THAT I AM)

LOL!! Oboy, you funny o! Real comedy sketch.... I bow.

Are you looking for the Acronym in English?

Abeg what is the first letter of Ehyer in Hebrew Language. and what is the first letter of tetragrammaton YHWH.


Eh'yer = I am = אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה ( from Hayah הָיָה)

ה = He

The tetragrammaton is יְהוָ֞ה . Again the first letter is Yod. Followed by ה = He

And an acronym is not necessarily strictly only made up of the first letters.

(Acronym can be form by taking the first later of a phrase to form a word, which YHWH is NOT such to "I AM THAT I AM" ).

PastorAIO:


I have plenty more, the question is whether or not you can handle it.

If the angel that appeared to Moses came in Jehovah's name then by what name did the one who came to Jacob come by.

Was he a renegade angel?

Moses was not asking god's name cos 'he already knows it', you say.

You also say Jacob was not asking god's name 'he already knows it', he was asking the angel's name.

Maybe Moses too was just asking the angel's name, abi?

The context of the discussion differs. Don't you have anything meaningful?

PastorAIO:


You can cut straight to the chase by answering simply,

Ego Eimi = Eh'yer

True or false?

The situation I am trying to avoid is to associate Ehyah with eigo eimi, as if they mean the same thing in every shape. This is not true.

JMAN05:


The situation I am trying to avoid is to associate Ehyah with eigo eimi, as if they mean the same thing in every shape. This is not true.

In your understanding, how would you translate Ego Eimi into English?

And also, how would you translate Ehyah into English?

and if there is a difference in meaning could you please explain the difference to us?

Thank you.