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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria (1654 Views)
Can There Be Prosperity Without The Tithe? - John Avanzini / ‘Sam Adeyemi And The Tithe’ by Deji Yesufu / Paul Enenche: Gospel Truth Of The Tithe Revealed (2) (3) (4)
The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by aribisala0(m): 1:35pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
No one who was been in Nigeria recently can be ignorant of the furore over tithes triggered or ignited by Mr Freeze and continued on several fronts by Nigerian believers ,supporters and critics of the practice. The debate has no doubt been very lively and will continue for some time What I want to highlight is the RELATIVE tolerance and openness of the atmosphere that the debate has been conducted in.Yes there has been abuse and aggression on both sides but no one has been killed. OurMuslim brothers need to learn how to accept tolerate and debate challenges to those things they regard as sacred without adopting violence or killing. Many people can come to the public and challenge everything about Christianity without fear or intimidation. Even here on Nairaland the "OWNER" and General Overseer Daddy Seun has been cowed into requiring any commentator on Muslim threads to declare themselves as a Muslim. At the right time we will examine the legality or liabilities of that discriinatory action across all the jurisdictions where the website wishes to appear. Anyway the realiity is no one has seen God and so any claim about God will and should be open to scrutiny and debate or even ridicule Babatunde Raji Fashola ,the Minister of Power, is on record as saying "Sango cannot produce 1Killowatt of electricity" Imagine if anyone had said same about Allah or Mohammed. probably we would have recorded some deaths in Zamfara or Kano It is all very well saying those who are violent are not "real" Muslims ,whatever that means.The reality is they do it in the name of Allah and are never caught ,punished and rarely condemned No matter how strongly you hold your beliefs there are those who wil find them strange,absurd or even stupid. Thoe paying tithes have been called "Sheeple" yet no one has been separated fro their head. No one butchered or barbecued. What then is it about Islam that makes it so violent that even the Daddy GO of Nairaland is petrified? Islam has some soul searching to do 6 Likes |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by TheHistorian(m): 1:39pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
Well Said. I'm impressed the "tithing" controversy was handled maturely by both opposing sides.There has being no recorded aggression nor physical discord amidst christians.It's just about comparing opinions and bringing arguments that seem superior. In likewise manner,Like the OP stated...The deliberate attempt by the administration of this forum to gag "conflicting ideas" against the practice of Islam needs to be review as healthy argument breeds clarity. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by aribisala0(m): 1:45pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
TheHistorian:There is a very strong chance you will be accused of being me using another ID ![]() |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by TheHistorian(m): 1:49pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
aribisala0:Sir...If such "claim" is made. I will be the happiest man on earth.I have keenly followed all your posts since you created the "20 pounds" thread and I admire your abundance of historical knowledge. What else will make me happier than being compared with my mentor?? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by Origin(f): 2:13pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
@ OP great points raised. But you have to consider so many different aspects. Go to every Islamic topics and see the level of insults and lies been hurled about (by whom ![]() ![]() Why is a crime committed by a Muslim tagged a religious or terrorist act. While a Christian crime or fight is never labelled. ![]() I keep reading of people been forced to Islam or paid, they say this without proof and yet these are taken as the salient truth. They say Muslims fight without provocation (like the proverbial child who cries that he has been beaten and when asked why he was beaten, replies that he did nothing) It is ironic how you have a debate on tithes which Muslims are quite conversant about and yet are allowed to have your debate in relative PEACE. Can muslims be assured of that same relative PEACE when they have their debate or will they have to be on guard on every corner from WHO ![]() I invite you to read comments on Muslim topics here on nairaland and see the level of HATE been directed at them. That will tell you who is not letting who have peace in real life. I support #freethesheeple for both Christians and Muslims as we both have been ignorant too long of what our books truly say. |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by OtemSapien: 2:25pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
Op, you are right. But to add to what you have said, every religion has its weak point. Christianity's weak points are sheepishness, gullibility, uncontrollable fornications and adulteries, excessive lyings and false testimonies, poor mentality, pastors worshipping etc while Islam is more of mind slavery(calling themselves slaves to Allah), terrorism, intolerance and violence. So you can't expected a Muslim who follows the instruction of Mohammed and Allah to be calm when his religion (which they said should be questioned) is being questioned. |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by shukuokukobambi: 2:36pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
aribisala0: Eyan iyi, i agree 100% with everything you've written here. I used to think you were even an alfa sef ![]() Muslims need to do a thorough soul searching. Christians like freeze and others on his team are doing a surgery on their faith because they've become ashamed of the business Christianity has turned to. Likewise Muslims need to come out in opposition against the violent streak that is running mad in the name of islam. If only both religions (Christianity and Islam) could be wiped out of Africa but until then, dear faithfuls, sanitize your houses pls. kudos to Freeze and kudos to the sensible muslims who will take up the job of sanitizing their own religion. 1 Like |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by zionmde: 2:38pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
Origin:Are u telling me i can raise an argument in hausaland about mohammed being a prophet or not without looking for my head in a matter of minutes? Tell me more Tell how much tolerance it is in islam as a whole. Tell me how tolerating it is for islam of the woman that lost her head in Kano. Islam and tolerance is a no no Those ones on nairaland are helpless, if they can murder people online i know how many people must have died. So mr islam, tell me how mohammed taught u guys that tolerance looks like 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by Humanistme: 3:03pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
Origin: Muslims do the same. they create anti Christian threads too. Why is a crime committed by a Muslim tagged a religious or terrorist act. terrorism is A form of psychological manipulation through warfare to the purpose of political or religious gains, by means of deliberately creating a climate of fear amongst the inhabitants of a specific geographical region. so tell me how what the likes of shekau do is not terrorism. note it is different from a Muslim commites crime because of other reasons apart from religion. While a Christian crime or fight is never labelled. there are Christian terrorists too. mind you the person who carried out the church massacre is not a Christian. he is atheist. I keep reading of people been forced to Islam or paid, they say this without proof and yet these are taken as the salient truth. They say Muslims fight without provocation (like the proverbial child who cries that he has been beaten and when asked why he was beaten, replies that he did nothing) well there is ese oruru case and the latest 25 teenagers discovered in emir palace in Abuja It is ironic how you have a debate on tithes which Muslims are quite conversant about and yet are allowed to have your debate in relative PEACE. non Christians criticized pastors too during the debates Can muslims be assured of that same relative PEACE when they have their debate or will they have to be on guard on every corner from WHO ideas can be criticized and that includes your religion. Christians, Catholics get bashed from left to right what makes your religion special? I invite you to read comments on Muslim topics here on nairaland and see the level of HATE been directed at them. That will tell you who is not letting who have peace in real life. you can ad well check Christian topics too you will see the same hate I support #freethesheeple for both Christians and Muslims as we both have been ignorant too long of what our books truly say. I agree. all ideas including your religious or philosophical ideas are open to criticism. [/quote] 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by Origin(f): 5:33pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
zionmde: If you have a debate bring it on. We welcome people of sound minds anytime and if u go through my prior posts u will notice I welcome such. But where you lack arguments and you resort to abuses and name calling ![]() So if you can't respect other people's boundaries in a debate. You will always have issues with the others. |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by Origin(f): 5:39pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
Humanistme: The trend on nairaland is atheists disrupt Christian threads and Christians disrupt Muslim threads. Muslims know what the bible say: It's one of the books we believe in....... Muslims would rather challenge your tenets based on what the books say..... (e.g if Jesus prayed to God, how can Jesus be God) But head on insults and hate speech...... We get that from the Atheists and Christians. ( e.g a man shows of his Muslim family- comments include terrorist, na so them they kill, for night them go de bomb). I mean...............just help yourself to the many threads that show this sickening comments. Modified: How did you get to the conclusion the killer was an atheist ![]() |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by aribisala0(m): 5:42pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
Origin: Who is the judge of what is an insult or name calling? Who is the complainant? Who is the Judge ? The Muslim beheader Whenn you say Jesus is a Man and not God is that an Insult? Who is the Judge? By the Way I am not Christian When you say that Yoruba deities like Ogun and Sango are idols is that an insult? Kindly exlain what you mean by NO GO AREA Is that the area where your beheading becomes justified because it is not clear what you mean by NO GO AREA. What options does a Muslim have when people cross into this NO GO AREA.. Because in other religions this so called NO GO AREA does not exist .If people are unhapy they have to follow the law but you seem to be saying for Muslims once you enter no go area anything goes/ Is that your position ![]() The reality is there is a relative absurdity of many beliefs tothe next. To the Muslim the idea that there is one God makes sense but to the polytheist it is crazy. So even expressing your beliefs in public will be crossing a so called no go area. The moment you say anything is an idol you are entering a no go area . What is an idol to you is God to another Simple question for you. When Fashola said Sango cannot generate 1Kw of electricity did he enter a no go area? so how is it possible to live together in peace? 1 Like |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by zionmde: 5:47pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
Origin:That line u will never see a muslim insult Jesus bla bla bla bla is wat u should be telling people who dont truly know u guys. Now let me clear u, d jesus u muslims believe is not our Jesus. U dont insult ur jesus but u insult our Jesus. I have lived amongst muslims for a long time and i have heard unspeakable insults to our Jesus. The Jesus (of Christianity ) has no single relationship with jesus of islam, just as there is nothing in common between us both. So ur mohammed deserves no respect from me because to me the guy is from the devil the same way i dont require u to respect Jesus because the personality should mean nothing to u. Where tolerance comes to play is that i ignore ur insults to my beliefs and u ignore mine. Can u tell me wat insult the woman who lost her head in kano dished out to mohammed, so even if she insulted him u are telling me she deserves to die and u still use the same mouth to tell me islam is tolerant. gerrrrout Do u know wat a muslim use to threaten someone's life. this is th exact word "it only take allah ahkbar and u become a story" Please if u know tolerance is not embedded in ur religion just close ur mouth and stop trying to defend rubbish. I guess chop chop square in saudi arabia is where tolerance is really taught useless religion |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by aribisala0(m): 5:49pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
zionmde:But Fashola insulted Sango ![]() Christians believe Jesus is God so when they say he is just a man is that an insult? |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by zionmde: 5:52pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
aribisala0:leave those people. Insult to mohammed is a no go area bla bla bla. That is the area where they term it necessary to behead the person and yet they come out to open their dirty mouth to shout tolerance. If a muslim in the north wants u dead, all he needs to shout is allah akbar and blasphemy then u become a history. |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by zionmde: 5:57pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
aribisala0:Jesus is my God and that is wat Christians believe. They will be insulting us by saying he is a mere man under the authority of mohammed whom we believe is from the devil. Indirectly insinuating that Jesus is from the devil. Wen they say such no qualms we leave them to believe wat they want, we can try to argue but it ends there. But the day u go to the north and tell somebody that Jesus has authority over mohammed the chances of u surviving that day is 10%. They will say u hav insulted their prophet and is punishable by beheading. |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by aribisala0(m): 5:58pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
zionmde:Last year it was Igbo man refusing to fast. It it aint one excuse its another. They come in public repeating the idea that Jesus is just a man but do not think that is an insult to Christians. My point is yes we can call Jesus a man but there is nothing like NO GO AREA. Anyone can say anything to DISPUTE your beliefs it they do not share them. I can challenge whether or not there is God and I can challenge ANYTHING |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by Origin(f): 6:06pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
zionmde: And this is why we need to teach people about the books. Stop following your Alfa or pastor, they are not the law. A Muslim cannot insult any of the prophets. And only a person of very limited knowledge will be saying our Jesus your Jesus. Some people even go ahead and differentiate our God your God. Some will abuse Allah and say his own his Yahweh. God has a name in every language. In the bible the name Elah is synonymous with Allah. Technically all you just did is you just insulted ....... We really need to address this Hate that will not let us understand. How many churches are in the North ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() These are the questions you should ask. An incident does not make a whole. A fight at Alaba does not mean Ibos are always troublesome. A fight at Mile12 does not mean hausa are always looking for trouble. You look for the cause of the conflict and address it while not ignoring that they've been coexisting peacefully for decades. |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by zionmde: 6:08pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
aribisala0:That is my point exactly Its only islam that has A NO GO AREA. Imagine how many persons have lost their lives because of the so called NO GO AREA. The truth is that if u insult my earthly father i can fight u, but if u insult Jesus i will try to warn u of the spiritual consequences and i will leave u because i believe God would even be angry to see me fighting physically because someone insulted him. If u advise muslims now to emulate that they will tell u plainly that its not possible in some cases. I dont believe anybody should be physically killed because of his religious beliefs. Let the God we all claim we serve or we dont serve fight his battles |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by Origin(f): 6:10pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
aribisala0: Igbo man not fasting ![]() Haba where do this stories come from ![]() |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by aribisala0(m): 6:13pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
Origin:Did they not attack an Igbo man for eating during Ramadan ![]() |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by aribisala0(m): 6:16pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
There is one thing Muslims(and Christians to some degree) refuse to understand. Just as it makes sense to you that there is only one deity. So it makes absolutely no sense to others who believe that there are hundreds of deities So when you come out calling things idols or fetish you are being insulting |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by aribisala0(m): 6:17pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
Origin:https://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/06/man-christian-stabbed-for-not-fasting/ |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by zionmde: 6:20pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
Origin:In northern churches they use the name "Ubangiji" to address God during Hausa worship services. they dont refer to God as Allah in the northern churches. Its only ignorant CChristians that do that because they actually think allah is hausa name for God. Moreover as a muslim who are u to tell me who to listen to? U know nothing about Christianity. There is no atom of relationship between Christianity an islam, The same way i look at a budhist is the same way i look at a muslim. The Jesus christians worship is our God. that is wag we believe and u have no right to question our belief because that is wat makes us Christians. I dont care who ur jesus is to u muslims thats ur own business. Bottom line wen u refer to Christian Jesus and say all the rubbish u want to say as a muslim, its a grave insult to our God, if we say wat we want to say about mohammed u guys will suddenly start shouting behead, behead, blasphemy bla bla bla. If u dont live in the north speak for the west u reside. North wants to be like saudi arabia in their lifestyle thats their dream. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by aribisala0(m): 6:25pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
Origin: No Christian will agree with you that Jesus is a prophet and you saying so is actually provocative and disrespectful but you don't see it that way. I understand because I am neither Christian nor Muslim though I have read the Quran and Bible and continue to do so. Anyone who has read both books will know that Muhammad copied lot from the bible and adjusted it for political power Now that is an opinion which may be offensive to Muslims but CANNOT be a no go area just as challenging the divinity of Jesus CANNOT be a no go area. That is what this thread is about. There are many who believe Islam, Christianity or indeed all religion is fabricated and they should be allowed to speak without violence |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by Origin(f): 8:36pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
aribisala0: Like Freeze has done I will tell you Jesus is a prophet based on the bible. "Father forgive them for they know not what they....." Was a prayer from Jesus to God. "hear o Israel thy Lord God is one God" was what Jesus told the Israel. "I am not sent but to .... Etc etc"" These are what a Muslim will tell you with no insult intended. Now see what a Christian will reply when you ask for their proof: Their prophet is a fornicator, raping small children (very baseless as records of age are not readily available, even Khadijah has a 20 year gap in her estimated age on wiki). You are terrorist. Do you want to bomb ( bros we asked you a valid question you haven't answered) Or abusing god who they think belong only to the Muslim because the name is in Arabic. For me a clear difference between addressing an issue and attacking the person you are conferring with..... Muslims are not disturbing the witches and wizards or the traditionalists. We know the people who will not let birds rest just because of their fear of the traditionalists. |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by Origin(f): 8:41pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
aribisala0: Then you direct your query to Fashola so named above. Muslims should not have to answer for everyone's spoken word or action. Did he say that in the capacity of representing his religion ![]() |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by aribisala0(m): 8:43pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
Origin: You see I am not here to debate whether he is a prophet or not.That is irrelevant and that is where you get into trouble because your starting point is your idea that you or Islam is right and everthing else is wrong. The point I am making is it does not matter who is right or wrong but that is what THEY BELIEVE. THAT IS WHAT THEY BELIEVE YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE I do not believe what you or the Christians believe. Can I say that without threats of violence If you say Jesus is a prophet and Christians BELIEVE he is GOD is that an Insult If YOU Believe Muhamad is a prophet and I believe he is a fraudster is that an insult Can I say what I believe with freedom? If you are free to call Jesus a prophet even though YOU KNOW it offends Christians but I believe you have freedom to say that Can you accept I have freedom to call Muhammad a fraudster That is what this thread is about not trying to PROVE that what YOU BELIEVE is the right belief I am not a Christian but I believe the prophet is a paedophile . I think that is less ofan insult than you saying that Jesus who Christian believe is God is just a man and indeed a lesser prophet than Muhammad So the point then is as long as people do not have the same beliefs THERE MUST BE A percepton ofinsults on all siides Why is it that Muslims act to this more often with violence? |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by aribisala0(m): 8:51pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
Origin:But you have been saying Christian say this and Christians say that. all over the place. Do not be a hypocrite please The truth is Christians and Muslims in Nigeria are very disrespectfuul of traditional religions that do not share their ideology of One God So you should not be talking of no go areas Everyone should be free to say whatever he believes .If it offends God let God defend himself by himself |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by Humanistme: 8:53pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
Origin: ![]() The attacker is an atheist. https://www.nairaland.com/4159848/breaking-texas-gunman-shot-26#62119945 as for the rest of your posts you have a point. Christians tend to criticise Muslims online more than Muslims criticize Christian |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by Origin(f): 8:54pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
aribisala0: They had no justification under any religious tenets for doing that. You are not even allowed to insult people back during fasting. In fact if anyone seeks your trouble you are meant to say I'm fasting and leave that spot. Such an act would have nullified their fast. And you can't enjoin the fast on a non Muslim (was the man the only one in that area eating?) Like I said #freethesheeple. If people would stop listening to men and understand the word of God. |
Re: The Tithe Debate And Islam In Nigeria by aribisala0(m): 8:56pm On Nov 11, 2017 |
If I do not believe there is a God I should be free to say that. It follows if I have such a belief and Muhammad says God sent him that I must believe Muhammad is a liar.Surely Imust be ableto say what I believe? Just as You believe there is a God and Muhammad sent him anyone who dooes not should have the equal and opposite freedom Christians accept that without violence why can't Muslims 1 Like 1 Share |
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