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Is Jesus God? - Religion (14) - Nairaland

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Re: Is Jesus God? by Nobody: 7:54am On Nov 17, 2017
Bring the questions here ..... Guess. I'd be less busy today I'd answer all the questions ..... And also I'm expecting a comprehensive Post from you guys if I don't get it I'll assume that you guys just want to argue ( blindly )or just tussle us around with questions and not here to educate us .......

You can bring your questions again for reference purpose
Re: Is Jesus God? by Nobody: 8:04am On Nov 17, 2017
Though this is a big issue a lot of Christians were thought this doctrine when they were very small ... They grew up and yet never questioned all they had learnt .... If it isn't that this thread is for a particular topic I'd have attacked them too because some of them can't even defend the OBVIOUS FACT THAT JESUS IS GOD yet they could recite some Creed as if it were some ritual .... This doctrine isn't bogus to understand, pray take a Bible and a concordance ... The thing with some Christians is that they are afraid that some things or some doctrines they held unto will change .......well at least they would Stop holding or believing doctrines blindly don't be afraid of your views being changed at least all FUNDAMENTAL DOCTRINES CAN BE PROVED FROM THE BIBLE WITHOUT A SINGLE argument

...,..

PLS LETS BE PRAYERFUL AND STUDIOUS AND NOT BE AFRAID OF THE TRUTH. ...
Re: Is Jesus God? by Nobody: 8:54am On Nov 17, 2017
lovingJehovah:
Using water ice as a barometer for justifying your doctrine is bogus. We are talking about spirits in whose form we were created. Why not streamline your explanation to the examples used in Bible? You have a plethora of Bible verses to tap from. Need I suggest 1 Corinthians 11:3; 1 Corinthians 3:23; Ephesians 5:23?
The example that you used doesn't seem to fit at all and I can explain. Scientifically, water is a compound containing two elements, hydrogen and oxygen (not a TRInity). It contains two hydrogen and one oxygen (not equal which supports 1 Corinthians 11:3 in superiority). Water can be split and each element can stand alone (opposes John 8:28). Moreover, each element is present in other mixtures or compounds for example, Oxygen can also be found in acetone or oxide while hydrogen can be found in acid, alcohol or ammonia (which means a member of the (your) trinity doctrine can belong to multiple godheads).

my point was clear. I don't know why you are trying to twist it. I only use water as an illustration to show that one substance can exist in different ways and forms.

Paul even said that the creations are a reflection of the godhead and power.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

U can't use hydrogen and oxygen to discredit what I posited because hydrogen and oxygen are different element. I hope you know that even two of same element may even be different for example hydrogen exist in three three different forms. Have you heard of isotope?
You said I didn't use scriptures but I did.
Jesus said he and his Father are one.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Compare,

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The[b] LORD our God is one LORD:[/b]

Do you know the Hebrew word used 'one'?
God the father, Son and holy Spirit are one .

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Re: Is Jesus God? by Nobody: 11:05am On Nov 17, 2017
sorry I'm out of here ..... no mentions pls
Re: Is Jesus God? by lovingJehovah: 11:59am On Nov 17, 2017
This is a deflection of the truth.
Is God a substance?
Is it appropriate to use such thing as water as a comparison to the nature of God?
Why not use the words of Jesus so that you can align your comments with the teachings of Jesus in John 4:24?
The meaning of Jehovah is “I Will Become What I Choose to Become". He is everything that he wants to be and cannot be compared or reduced to an ordinary compound. I was only reminding you to stay tailored to the point. Telling me about Isotope is a deviation from the main sense.
What is the difference between the holy ghost and the Holy spirit?
What is the name of the Holy spirit?
solite3:
my point was clear. I don't know why you are trying to twist it. I only use water as an illustration to show that one substance can exist in different ways and forms.

Paul even said that the creations are a reflection of the godhead and power.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

U can't use hydrogen and oxygen to discredit what I posited because hydrogen and oxygen are different element. I hope you know that even two of same element may even be different for example hydrogen exist in three three different forms. Have you heard of isotope?
You said I didn't use scriptures but I did.
Jesus said he and his Father are one.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Compare,

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The[b] LORD our God is one LORD:[/b]

Do you know the Hebrew word used 'one'?
God the father, Son and holy Spirit are one .

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the [b]Holy Ghost:[/b]
Re: Is Jesus God? by Nobody: 1:38pm On Nov 17, 2017
[quote author=lovingJehovah post=62460943]This is a deflection of the truth.
Is God a substance?
Is it appropriate to use such thing as water as a comparison to the nature of God?


Romans 1:20 [b] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; [/b]so that they are without excuse:
@bold you see that the things that are made are a reflection of God's invisible attributes.
I didn't tell you God is water. Even Jesus use happenings on earth to describe heavenly things I hope you will reject Jesus teaching for doing such.

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?


Even humans are described in three terms body, Soul and spirit.
Man is created after the similitude of God that means God is trinue by nature.


Why not use the words of Jesus so that you can align your comments with the teachings of Jesus in John 4:24?
my words very much align. John 4:2 I don't see how this verse relates.


The meaning of Jehovah is “I Will Become What I Choose to Become". He is everything that he wants to be and cannot be compared or reduced to an ordinary compound. I was only reminding you to stay tailored to the point. Telling me about Isotope is a deviation from the main sense.
who said Yahweh is a compound? I gave you a verse which told you that Yahweh's quality can be known from the things he created, is it wrong to tell somebody about God by using what he has created?

What is the difference between the holy ghost and the Holy spirit?
What is the name of the Holy spirit?
this is a needless distraction let us focus on topic.
Re: Is Jesus God? by Nobody: 1:50pm On Nov 17, 2017
Jesus is God
Jesus is God – What does the Bible say about Jesus’ deity?
Does the Bible, which is the earliest and most historically reliable source, actually say Jesus is God? What does it tell us about Jesus and His identity?

Let’s take a brief look at a few of the many passages that clearly and consistently answer that question, straight from the pages of Scripture. We’ll begin by going back an additional 700 years before the life of Christ, to the Old Testament book of Isaiah.
Jesus is God – Prophecies
Divine Messiah predicted in the Old Testament
Isaiah 7:14 “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”1

“Immanuel” literally means: “God with us.” See also Matthew 1:23; Jesus was “God with us.”

This Messiah would be born a human son, but have a higher nature
Isaiah 9:6 “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

This was a radical statement coming from a monotheistic Jewish prophet -- especially calling a human being “Mighty God”; but one that God fulfilled centuries later in Christ.

A couple hundred years later, but still more than half a millennium before Jesus walked the earth, more was predicted about the Messiah’s divine nature
Daniel 7:13-14 “There before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven . . . He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”

“Son of Man” was the primary title Jesus used for Himself -- and this passage shows that this was a clear and strong claim of deity. And in Mark, the earliest of the four Gospels, He also included the unmistakable phrase, “coming on the clouds of heaven” and applied it to Himself (Mark 14:62). His listeners got the point, refused to believe it, and added it to their reasons to try to kill Him.
Jesus is God – His Earthly Ministry
The baby Jesus worshiped by the Magi
Matthew 2:11 “On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him.”

Along with being led to the site where Jesus was born, these Magi were apparently informed by God about Jesus’ divine identity, and so they responded appropriately by worshiping Him.

Jesus accepted worship from His disciples
Matthew 14:32-33 “And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’”

In a Jewish culture, only the one true God can be worshiped; their actions show that they acknowledged Jesus as being divine. And Jesus didn’t correct them or say, “Don’t you realize that I’m just a mortal prophet? Stop worshiping me!” Rather, He accepted their worship, knowing He really was God in human flesh.

Jesus’ claim about Himself
John 8:58-59 "‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.”

This is a powerful double claim from Jesus: first, that He pre-existed His human birth and was actually alive and present (as God) before Abraham; second, that His title was “I am” -- which was the same title used for Jehovah God in Exodus 3:14. His listeners again got the point, and picked up stones to execute Him!

Another of Jesus’ claims of deity
John 10:30-33 “‘I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’”

It couldn’t be clearer than it is here: Jesus’ highly educated listeners understood His claim of deity. They only had two possible responses: to humble themselves and bow before Him as the Magi and the disciples had done earlier, or reject His claim and judge Him as a blasphemer. Unfortunately they chose the latter option. But notice that Jesus doesn’t argue with their accusation, because it was accurate. He really was claiming to be God!

Thomas’ response to the resurrected Jesus
John 20:27-29 “Then He said to Thomas, ‘Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.’ Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.’"

This disciple realized, because of Jesus’ resurrection, who Jesus really was -- and humbly worshiped Him and declared His true identity: “My Lord and my God!” Jesus not only accepts this declaration, but blesses all of the disciples -- and all of us today -- who come to the same realization and place of humble worship.
Re: Is Jesus God? by Nobody: 1:54pm On Nov 17, 2017
Jesus is God – He is Worshipped
Jesus accepted worship prior to His ascension
Matthew 28:16-17 “Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.”

Note that Jesus was worshiped at His birth, throughout His ministry, after His resurrection, and again here -- right before His physical ascension into heaven. His divine nature, as a member of the Godhead (along with the Father and the Holy Spirit), was never questioned by Him or by those who really knew who He was and followed Him.

Paul’s understanding as an apostle and leader of the church
Colossians 1:15-16; 2:9 “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. . . . For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form. . .”

And in Titus 2:13-14 Paul refers to him as “our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us. . .”

Paul’s letters were some of the earliest Christian writings, with most of them actually pre-dating the four Gospels -- yet they make some of the strongest statements concerning the first church’s clear understanding of Jesus as the Creator; God in human form.

Jesus will be worshiped by every creature in heavenRevelation 5:13-14 “Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: ‘To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!’ The four living creatures said, ‘Amen,’ and the elders fell down and worshiped.”

The last book in the Bible points prophetically to the time where every living creature will know and acknowledge that Jesus, the “Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world” (John 1:29) is also the God who we must praise, honor, and worship -- and certainly was not a mere mortal whose identity needed upgrading by Constantine (Roman emperor) hundreds of years after He walked this planet!

Jesus is God – Why this matters so much
But Jesus and His followers made the truth very clear, as we’ve seen in the pages of the earliest records, concerning who He was and is -- and how imperative it is that we understand and embrace that truth. Look at His sobering words about the vital importance of His identity.

“I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life. . . .

“But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. . .You do not know me or my Father. . .I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.”

“. . .Even as He spoke, many put their faith in him. To [them] Jesus said, ‘If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.’"
- Jesus, recorded in John chapter 8
Re: Is Jesus God? by lovingJehovah: 3:36pm On Nov 17, 2017
Your illustration is absolutely bogus. You quoted Roman 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
The verse speaks of God alone and his attributes. Using water turning to ice as a comparison to Jehovah and Jesus in the trinity is absolutely inappropriate. That verse gives no credence to your thought. Man was not created in 3 bodies. We have a body and a spirit according to the Bible. Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit.

It is not wrong to wrong to tell someone about God by using water but you were not doing that. You were rather comparing God and Jesus to water and ice. Be honest! That was why I said that you could have used a biblical example to make your illustration more fitting. I gave you verses quoted by Jesus himself. Jesus knew of water before he used those examples because they align better to his teachings. It is not just appropriate as I explained earlier. The Bible never taught that.

You brought up the holy ghost and that is why i asked you of the difference between the Holy spirit and the holy ghost. What do you mean by calling the question a distraction?
You said that you baptize in the name of the holy spirit so I asked for the name. You should be able to give answers to things that you mention in your quotes.


[quote author=solite3 post=62463536][/quote]
Re: Is Jesus God? by Nobody: 12:01pm On Nov 18, 2017
lovingJehovah:
Your illustration is absolutely bogus. You quoted Roman 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
The verse speaks of God alone and his attributes. Using water turning to ice as a comparison to Jehovah and Jesus in the trinity is absolutely inappropriate. That verse gives no credence to your thought. Man was not created in 3 bodies. We have a body and a spirit according to the Bible. Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit.

It is not wrong to wrong to tell someone about God by using water but you were not doing that. You were rather comparing God and Jesus to water and ice. Be honest! That was why I said that you could have used a biblical example to make your illustration more fitting. I gave you verses quoted by Jesus himself. Jesus knew of water before he used those examples because they align better to his teachings. It is not just appropriate as I explained earlier. The Bible never taught that.

You brought up the holy ghost and that is why i asked you of the difference between the Holy spirit and the holy ghost. What do you mean by calling the question a distraction?
You said that you baptize in the name of the holy spirit so I asked for the name. You should be able to give answers to things that you mention in your quotes.


Re: Is Jesus God? by Peacefullove: 12:42pm On Nov 18, 2017
solite3:
I don't think this question is relevant trying to say God is equal or not equal. Is water ice equal in quality to steam or to liquid water
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
God is one but he exist in three distinct persons this maybe beyond human mind, yes ,that is because he is God. Who can comprehend the fact that he has been existing from eternity? Is this not beyond human mind? God is beyond human, that is why he is God..
The Father, the Son and the holy Spirit are the same God and God is one as posited above but are different individuals hope you get it.

if the question is not relevant, on what basis do you trinitarians arrive at 1st person , 2nd person , 3rd person of Trinity ... what influenced the positioning ?
Re: Is Jesus God? by Peacefullove: 12:47pm On Nov 18, 2017
Ferisidowu:
sorry I'm out of here
..... no mentions pls

I can see how you carefully Avoided my questions to you . I was watching in 3D .

You can't defend your position on " Source " in Rev 3 vs 14

neither could you explain why a title like Son of God should even be applied to Jesus if he wasn't created .

you can run now, but you can't hide . let those questions sink into your MInd

grin no problem, shows you are also on a shaky foundation
Re: Is Jesus God? by Peacefullove: 12:49pm On Nov 18, 2017
[quote author=solite3 post=62463536][/quote]

animals are also body soul and spirit , are you telling me they are in the image of God ??
Re: Is Jesus God? by achorladey: 1:31pm On Nov 18, 2017
Peacefullove:


if the question is not relevant, on what basis do you trinitarians arrive at 1st person , 2nd person , 3rd person of Trinity ... what influenced the positioning ?
I asked him previously what is the definition of tritheism and trinity? He said Trinity is supported by the Bible and tritheism is not. I just they one corner dey look as he dey turn around and round. Let us see what is response will be this time
Re: Is Jesus God? by bahaushe1: 1:32pm On Nov 18, 2017
May Allaah guide us to the religion of truth. May He give us the heart to accept it and may He establish us on it up to our last day on earth.

Members of the same faith having heated argument about a matter that should be central to their believe and each qouted the same book they read regularly.

Jesus (pbuh), the son of Mary, is undoubtedly a human being. He was created by Allaah without a father as one of His signs for people with sound minds.

Allaah elevated his status, made him, a prophet, and a messenger. A mercy to the world send to the children of Israel.

We believe in the manner through which Allaah created him, in his prophethood, and messengership. We also believe that he was given a scripture by Allaah which confirmed the scripture of Moses (pbuh), abrogated some of its rulings, and prophesied the coming of unlettered prophet.

The Bible, as it is today, cannot a word of Allaah, for Allaah speaks in clear unambiguous terms without any contradiction.
Re: Is Jesus God? by achorladey: 1:43pm On Nov 18, 2017
solite3:


Tritheism is the belief that cosmic divinity is composed of three powerful entities. As generally conceived, three gods are envisioned as having separate domains and spheres of influence that coalesce into an omnipotent whole. In this primary respect, tritheism differs from cosmic dualism, which often posits two divine powers working in theologic or spiritual opposition.

Tritheism is not supported by the scriptures.


Trinity is the existence of God in three distinct persons or individuals.
Trinity is supported by the bible
Trinity
The Trinity is the Christian doctrine that deals with and describes the nature of God. The doctrine asserts the following:
There is one and only one God.
God eternally exists in three distinct persons.
The Father is God, the Son is God, and the
Holy Spirit is God.
The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father, the Father is not the Spirit, etc.

Tritheism
Tritheism is the belief in three distinct gods

Keywords under both definition.......... three distinct persons..........three distinct gods............that's key
Re: Is Jesus God? by lovingJehovah: 4:34pm On Nov 18, 2017
bahaushe1:
May Allaah guide us to the religion of truth. May He give us the heart to accept it and may He establish us on it up to our last day on earth.

Members of the same faith having heated argument about a matter that should be central to their believe and each qouted the same book they read regularly.

Jesus (pbuh), the son of Mary, is undoubtedly a human being. He was created by Allaah without a father as one of His signs for people with sound minds.

Allaah elevated his status, made him, a prophet, and a messenger. A mercy to the world send to the children of Israel.

We believe in the manner through which Allaah created him, in his prophethood, and messengership. We also believe that he was given a scripture by Allaah which confirmed the scripture of Moses (pbuh), abrogated some of its rulings, and prophesied the coming of unlettered prophet.

The Bible, as it is today, cannot a word of Allaah, for Allaah speaks in clear unambiguous terms without any contradiction.
Jesus never prophesied about the coming of anyone else but the kingdom of God. Jesus never said that he was given a scripture as well. He said that he was the word. That he is by the right side of the father, Jehovah. The Bible is a very clear and precise book, but over the course of time some agents of the devil have been trying earnestly to alter its message. Sincere ones who are willing to know Jehovah spend their time researching the truth and are confident that the Bible is authentic.
For a fact, the message in the Koran is forced on people not because they believe it for a fact. It is a psychological thing. I still cannot believe why a religion would force you to either accept its faith or be killed. Allah (God) gave us choices and made us free-spirited. We are allowed to make our own choices and take either the blessing or the curses.
I am still asking, what is the name of Allah since Allah means God(which is a title)?
I had this conversation with a Muslim who finally confessed a strange name. I don't know the name.
Re: Is Jesus God? by bahaushe1: 5:29pm On Nov 18, 2017
lovingJehovah:

Jesus never prophesied about the coming of anyone else but the kingdom of God. Jesus never said that he was given a scripture as well. He said that he was the word. That he is by the right side of the father, Jehovah. The Bible is a very clear and precise book, but over the course of time some agents of the devil have been trying earnestly to alter its message. Sincere ones who are willing to know Jehovah spend their time researching the truth and are confident that the Bible is authentic.
For a fact, the message in the Koran is forced on people not because they believe it for a fact. It is a psychological thing. I still cannot believe why a religion would force you to either accept its faith or be killed. Allah (God) gave us choices and made us free-spirited. We are allowed to make our own choices and take either the blessing or the curses.
I am still asking, what is the name of Allah since Allah means God(which is a title)?
I had this conversation with a Muslim who finally confessed a strange name. I don't know the name.


"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful."
(QS. Al-A'raaf 7: Verse 157)

Indeed Jesus (pbuh) was given a scripture by Allaah .

"[Jesus] said, Indeed, I am the servant of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet."
(QS. Maryam 19: Verse 30)

If Jesus (pbuh) was not given a scripture as you claimed, what is the source of the books you parade as Gospels ?

Islam was never forced on anybody. If you are referring to Jihad then kindly read the history of early Muslims you will find the basis for that .

Allaah's name is Allaah. To Him belongs the most beautiful names and attributes of completeness and perfection. He is to be described only by the names (99) and attributes He called and described Himself.
Re: Is Jesus God? by lovingJehovah: 7:22am On Nov 19, 2017
I am glad that you believe that he was sent down (from heaven).
What is the definition of Scripture?
Where is the scripture that he was sent down with?
Was Moses also send down?
If not, how did he receive his own scripture?
What language is the word, Al-A'raaf?
Do you speak that language?
bahaushe1:

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful."
(QS. Al-A'raaf 7: Verse 157)

Indeed Jesus (pbuh) was given a scripture by Allaah .

"[Jesus] said, Indeed, I am the servant of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet."
(QS. Maryam 19: Verse 30)

If Jesus (pbuh) was not given a scripture as you claimed, what is the source of the books you parade as Gospels ?

Islam was never forced on anybody. If you are referring to Jihad then kindly read the history of early Muslims you will find the basis for that .

Allaah's name is Allaah. To Him belongs the most beautiful names and attributes of completeness and perfection. He is to be described only by the names (99) and attributes He called and described Himself.
Re: Is Jesus God? by bahaushe1: 11:37am On Nov 19, 2017
lovingJehovah:
I am glad that you believe that he was sent down (from heaven).
What is the definition of Scripture?
Where is the scripture that he was sent down with?
Was Moses also send down?
If not, how did he receive his own scripture?
What language is the word, Al-A'raaf?
Do you speak that language?

You dogged my questions only to turn around and ask more questions.

Show me where I made reference to"sent down".

Scripture is a legal code given to messengers of Allaah with which they judge among their people. It prescribe all religious obligations and form code of conduct for daily life of the people of that messenger.

The name of the scripture of Jesus (phbu) is Gospel. It doesn't matter where it is now because it is not the legal code of the nation of Muhammad (pbuh). We are only required to believe that it was sent down to Jesus (pbuh) by Allaah.

None of the Prophets of Allaah was "sent down" from heaven apart from Prophet Adam (pbuh). They were all chosen from among their people. They are well known to their people with established lineage.

Allaah sends His scriptures to His messengers through angel Gabriel. This is the main way through which all of them received their scriptures.

And finally, A 'raaf means heights, rocks, mountains.
Re: Is Jesus God? by lovingJehovah: 12:37pm On Nov 19, 2017
Here is the question you said that I tried to skip.
If Jesus (pbuh) was not given a scripture as you claimed, what is the source of the books you parade as Gospels ?
I answered you initially. Jesus himself is the word. He came from Heaven. He lived with Jehovah God and is the firstborn of all creation. Everything was created through him. And the words in the Bible were written down by men inspired by God to write things of ancient times and of the future. These men wrote their own mistakes as well. Does the Koran contain the mistakes of Mohammed?

Show me where I made reference to"sent down".
Below is an excerpt from your comment. I emboldened the answer to your question.
bahaushe1:
"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down "with" him - it is those who will be the successful."
I guess you just broke the code of the Muslim brotherhood. Am I seeing a sword coming to your neck? LOL(jest)

Scripture is a legal code given to messengers of Allaah with which they judge among their people. It prescribe all religious obligations and form code of conduct for daily life of the people of that messenger.
Why does a legal code contain 'history' of the people? Not relevant! Did someone mix something up?

The name of the scripture of Jesus (phbu) is Gospel. It doesn't matter where it is now because it is not the legal code of the nation of Muhammad (pbuh). We are only required to believe that it was sent down to Jesus (pbuh) by Allaah.
In what form was it sent down (Tablet, book or manuscript)?

Allaah sends His scriptures to His messengers through angel Gabriel. This is the main way through which all of them received their scriptures.
Before Jesus, who were the prophets after Moses?
How many angels were named in the koran?

And finally, A 'raaf means heights, rocks, mountains.
I didn't ask for the meaning of the word. I asked for the Etymology or the language of origin of that word.
bahaushe1:


You dogged my questions only to turn around and ask more questions.

Show me where I made reference to"sent down".

Scripture is a legal code given to messengers of Allaah with which they judge among their people. It prescribe all religious obligations and form code of conduct for daily life of the people of that messenger.

The name of the scripture of Jesus (phbu) is Gospel. It doesn't matter where it is now because it is not the legal code of the nation of Muhammad (pbuh). We are only required to believe that it was sent down to Jesus (pbuh) by Allaah.

None of the Prophets of Allaah was "sent down" from heaven apart from Prophet Adam (pbuh). They were all chosen from among their people. They are well known to their people with established lineage.

Allaah sends His scriptures to His messengers through angel Gabriel. This is the main way through which all of them received their scriptures.

And finally, A 'raaf means heights, rocks, mountains.
Re: Is Jesus God? by bahaushe1: 1:53pm On Nov 19, 2017
lovingJehovah:
Here is the question you said that I tried to skip.
If Jesus (pbuh) was not given a scripture as you claimed, what is the source of the books you parade as Gospels ?
I answered you initially. Jesus himself is the word. He came from Heaven. He lived with Jehovah God and is the firstborn of all creation. Everything was created through him. And the words in the Bible were written down by men inspired by God to write things of ancient times and of the future. These men wrote their own mistakes as well. Does the Koran contain the mistakes of Mohammed?

Show me where I made reference to"sent down".
Below is an excerpt from your comment. I emboldened the answer to your question.

I guess you just broke the code of the Muslim brotherhood. Am I seeing a sword coming to your neck? LOL(jest)

Scripture is a legal code given to messengers of Allaah with which they judge among their people. It prescribe all religious obligations and form code of conduct for daily life of the people of that messenger.
Why does a legal code contain 'history' of the people? Not relevant! Did someone mix something up?

The name of the scripture of Jesus (phbu) is Gospel. It doesn't matter where it is now because it is not the legal code of the nation of Muhammad (pbuh). We are only required to believe that it was sent down to Jesus (pbuh) by Allaah.
In what form was it sent down (Tablet, book or manuscript)?

Allaah sends His scriptures to His messengers through angel Gabriel. This is the main way through which all of them received their scriptures.
Before Jesus, who were the prophets after Moses?
How many angels were named in the koran?

And finally, A 'raaf means heights, rocks, mountains.
I didn't ask for the meaning of the word. I asked for the Etymology or the language of origin of that word.

If those men wrote down their own mistakes then a religion that is rooted in those mistakes is certainly not a religion of truth.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) didn't make any mistake in transmitting Quran from angel Gabriel to his nation.

The reference of ".......light sent down......" refers to the Quran. And Allaah refer to all His scriptures as 'light' to world because they provide guidance to people of sound mind.

The stories of previous people in Quran were careful selected and narrated for their spiritual significance. The future events serve as either warnings or as proof of the miraculous nature of the Quran.

The nature or form in which Gospel was revealed to Jesus (pbuh) I do not know and knowing is not of a spiritual significance. Allaah knows the form in which He sent the Gospel to His servant and messenger Jesus (pbuh).

Prophets of Allaah after Prophet Moses (pbuh): David (pbuh), Solomon (pbuh), Elias (pbuh), Zachariah (pbuh), John (pbuh).

How many angles named in Quran? I do not know.

Etymology of the A'raaf? I do not know.
Re: Is Jesus God? by Nobody: 2:13pm On Nov 19, 2017
lovingJehovah:
Your illustration is absolutely bogus. You quoted Roman 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
The verse speaks of God alone and his attributes. Using water turning to ice as a comparison to Jehovah and Jesus in the trinity is absolutely inappropriate. That verse gives no credence to your thought. Man was not created in 3 bodies. We have a body and a spirit according to the Bible. Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit.

It is not wrong to wrong to tell someone about God by using water but you were not doing that. You were rather comparing God and Jesus to water and ice. Be honest! That was why I said that you could have used a biblical example to make your illustration more fitting. I gave you verses quoted by Jesus himself. Jesus knew of water before he used those examples because they align better to his teachings. It is not just appropriate as I explained earlier. The Bible never taught that.

You brought up the holy ghost and that is why i asked you of the difference between the Holy spirit and the holy ghost. What do you mean by calling the question a distraction?
You said that you baptize in the name of the holy spirit so I asked for the name. You should be able to give answers to things that you mention in your quotes.


first of all I never man has three bodies.
Secondly, thank God you agree that I could tell somebody about God by using what he has created so on what basis is my explanation of trinity using water wrong? I should use scriptures to give examples? I don't understand. The question you should ask is ' does the scriptures support Trinity teaching?' Then we can start from there.
Ephesians 4:4 is not talking of human body .
OK the holy spirit and holy ghost are the same. What's your point exactly? Christians are baptised in the name of Jesus.
Re: Is Jesus God? by Nobody: 2:14pm On Nov 19, 2017
lovingJehovah:
Your illustration is absolutely bogus. You quoted Roman 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
The verse speaks of God alone and his attributes. Using water turning to ice as a comparison to Jehovah and Jesus in the trinity is absolutely inappropriate. That verse gives no credence to your thought. Man was not created in 3 bodies. We have a body and a spirit according to the Bible. Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit.

It is not wrong to wrong to tell someone about God by using water but you were not doing that. You were rather comparing God and Jesus to water and ice. Be honest! That was why I said that you could have used a biblical example to make your illustration more fitting. I gave you verses quoted by Jesus himself. Jesus knew of water before he used those examples because they align better to his teachings. It is not just appropriate as I explained earlier. The Bible never taught that.

You brought up the holy ghost and that is why i asked you of the difference between the Holy spirit and the holy ghost. What do you mean by calling the question a distraction?
You said that you baptize in the name of the holy spirit so I asked for the name. You should be able to give answers to things that you mention in your quotes.


first of all I never said man has three bodies.
Secondly, you agree that I could tell somebody about God by using what he has created so on what basis is my explanation of trinity using water wrong? I should use scriptures to give examples? I don't understand. The question you should ask is ' does the scriptures support Trinity teaching?' Then we can start from there.
Ephesians 4:4 is not talking of human body .
OK the holy spirit and holy ghost are the same. What's your point exactly? Christians are baptised in the name of Jesus.
Re: Is Jesus God? by Nobody: 2:16pm On Nov 19, 2017
Peacefullove:


if the question is not relevant, on what basis do you trinitarians arrive at 1st person , 2nd person , 3rd person of Trinity ... what influenced the positioning ?
base on the bible.
Re: Is Jesus God? by Nobody: 2:18pm On Nov 19, 2017
Peacefullove:


animals are also body soul and spirit , are you telling me they are in the image of God ??
Animals are not created in the image of God. The Spirits of animals is different from that of man.
Re: Is Jesus God? by Nobody: 2:20pm On Nov 19, 2017
achorladey:

Trinity
The Trinity is the Christian doctrine that deals with and describes the nature of God. The doctrine asserts the following:
There is one and only one God.
God eternally exists in three distinct persons.
The Father is God, the Son is God, and the
Holy Spirit is God.
The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father, the Father is not the Spirit, etc.

Tritheism
Tritheism is the belief in three distinct gods

Keywords under both definition.......... three distinct persons..........three distinct gods............that's key
yea tritheism and trinity is different, three distinct person but one God.
Re: Is Jesus God? by lovingJehovah: 5:23pm On Nov 19, 2017
bahaushe1:

If those men wrote down their own mistakes then a religion that is rooted in those mistakes is certainly not a religion of truth.
Well, it would be a very impossible task for God to give us the laws of angels or to use the angels as examples for men. Through the mistakes of these men, we are able to scrutinize our actions and see how we can go wrong. Those are perfect examples for humans because no one is perfect enough to be called holy. We pride in the grace of our heavenly father knowing that he forgives our errors if we are remorseful just as he did to other faithful men of old. Jesus said that he came for the sinners, and that is what most of us were before repenting.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) didn't make any mistake in transmitting Quran from angel Gabriel to his nation.
can you explain what you mean by "transmitting"?

The reference of ".......light sent down......" refers to the Quran. And Allaah refer to all His scriptures as 'light' to world because they provide guidance to people of sound mind.
The Bible contains that message also. What really was sent by angel Gabriel, the Koran or the message? What is the meaning of the word QU'RAN? I want to know the origin. When the angel gave Muhammed, what name did he call it?

The stories of previous people in Quran were careful selected and narrated for their spiritual significance. The future events serve as either warnings or as proof of the miraculous nature of the Quran.
takes me back to your first comment. If you cherry-pick someone's biography, what you told is a big fat lie. Half truth is also a lie, have you ever heard that saying?
It shows why the Bible is honest because it tells us of the weaknesses of those men that we admire. For example, we know that Moses committed murder, he rebelled against God and that was why he didn't enter the promised land. If your Koran hides fragments of the truth, that makes it a lie.

The nature or form in which Gospel was revealed to Jesus (pbuh) I do not know and knowing is not of a spiritual significance. Allaah knows the form in which He sent the Gospel to His servant and messenger Jesus (pbuh).
Knowing that opens the door to the key about your Koran and your religion. If you know how Muhammed and Moses was given you should also know this. Muslims accept whatever they are told by their Imam, but they question people of other religions about the source of faith. You should ask your Imam or Muhaddith. Your Imam is human, question him for answers. One Imam visited my neighbour to expel demons early this year and I asked him questions. I never knew that Muslims practiced exorcism. I am still shocked. I still question Muslims affiliation to certain animals of prey (falcon, Cheetah, eagle etc).

Prophets of Allaah after Prophet Moses (pbuh): David (pbuh), Solomon (pbuh), Elias (pbuh), Zachariah (pbuh), John (pbuh).
Solomon married 700 wives but your Koran says four. Why the change? Is the message from a different angel? If you believe in all these prophets, where then are the manuscripts that they wrote(according to you, were given by angel Gabriel)? Why does the Bible have more specific details regarding these people and their locations than the Koran that you claim was given to you by 'an angel'?
Were these people prophets or kings? Do you know the date or era when they lived?


How many angles named in Quran? I do not know.
These are things that you should be familiar with. You say that you have a book given to you by 'an angel', shouldn't you treasure it? Chances are that you are a graduate and have read and defended so many books to obtain your degree. How, then, do you find it difficult to defend the Koran?
Can you ask your Muhaddith these questions and probably get the answers from him?

Etymology of the A'raaf? I do not know.
A'raaf is the seventh sura of the Koran. This is an Arabic word. Arabic did not spread until the mid 7th century which was almost 600 years after the death of Jesus Christ. Following the time of all the prophets, why did it take so long for another prophet to come after Jesus? Would God leave his people for over 500 years without sending a prophet? Guess what, all these prophets that you mentioned above all came from one kingdom, Israel and spoke the same language, Hebrew. So, if angel Gabriel had been transmitting the light to them in same manner, Why would he suddenly fly to Saudi Arabia to give a contrasting message to Mohammed and in a different language?
Very few people understood Arabic at that time. Arabic was forced on people and taught in Masjid. You, the one I am corresponding with might not speak Arabic, yet you publicly quote words that you cannot deeply understand or defend.

Now hear this, Muhammed was able to spread Islam because the Roman empire fell shortly before he was born. The Bible prophesied about this fall in the book of Daniel. He took advantage of that void in power to establish a movement. At that time Christ's followers had been scattered abroad even as far as Egypt. There are still relics of that era to prove it. There are Christians in Egypt called the Coptic and they were followers of Jesus right before Muhammed was born and after. True Christians were persecuted and murdered, so Muhammed capitalized on that opportunity to rampage the Middle east, Asia and Africa with his brutally enforced movement which is known as Islam today. He wanted to take over Europe but the intensity of the Arab rising was doused by the Catholic Inquisition. The rise of the British also dealt a major blow the Arabs and Islam. Up to this very day they still have eyes to take over America and Europe. I am sure that you must have been taught that in your Masjid.
David, Abraham or Moses would not have been a part of such a movement. Recall that Moses left Egypt but did not force the Egyptians to speak his language or serve his God. Abraham lived with the Canaanites but did not force them to worship his God. David lived in the middle of his enemies, the philistines, Assyria etc but did not take their lands or force them to serve his God, Jesus did not do such a thing. Why then should Muhammed be a different message? And after the brutality, why is it still called a "religion of peace"?
Why wasn't his act of sleeping with an 8 year old recorded in the Koran?
Re: Is Jesus God? by lovingJehovah: 6:57pm On Nov 19, 2017
my point is that using water turning into ice to depict Jesus turning into Jehovah is ludicrous. John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener".
You may want to say that the vine can turn into a gardener, so to speak. How indecorous that sounds to the ears alone.

A ghost is the same as a spirit? May I know the Greek word for ghost?
This is derailing the truth slightly. The Bible never spoke of holy ghost. Just in case you need a definition of ghost, I will copy and paste it here below:
Ghost: "an apparition of a dead person which is believed to appear or become manifest to the living, typically as a nebulous image".
FYI, the Bible only spoke about the Holy spirit and not the holy ghost. You KJV seems outdated. You may get a recent version to see the corrections made.

The Bible does not support the trinity doctrine. It never taught that. The KJV made a heretic insertion of 1 John 5:7 and other Bible translations have exposed the heretics for what they are.
It would be a long ride for you to attempt to prove a non-existent doctrine.

.
solite3:
first of all I never said man has three bodies.
Secondly, you agree that I could tell somebody about God by using what he has created so on what basis is my explanation of trinity using water wrong? I should use scriptures to give examples? I don't understand. The question you should ask is ' does the scriptures support Trinity teaching?' Then we can start from there.
Ephesians 4:4 is not talking of human body .
OK the holy spirit and holy ghost are the same. What's your point exactly? Christians are baptised in the name of Jesus.
Re: Is Jesus God? by lovingJehovah: 6:58pm On Nov 19, 2017
can you explain how it is different?
solite3:
Animals are not created in the image of God. The Spirits of animals is different from that of man.
Re: Is Jesus God? by lovingJehovah: 10:51am On Nov 20, 2017
You shouldn't attack anyone. Jesus advised us to preach in Matthew 24:14, not to attack. The point is that the doctrine of the trinity cannot be totally proven by anyone even when you apply some logic and back it up with Bible verses. The truth is the truth and no matter how deep you sink it, the crystals will sparkle from any depth. I have met theologians who tried to prove the trinity. Sadly, the end of the explanation is always "God is a mystery", "You cannot understand the nature of God with your physical minds" etc.
I always wonder if they, who are of same mortal minds like me, feel deep in their hearts that they are angels to have been able to understand God better.
You cannot blame people that much because the revered religious men of today who are supposed to dish out the proper spiritual food to people pay paramount attention to things that are financially beneficial. So, you have an assignment in Matthew 28:19-20. @Ferisidowu do you do that?
Ferisidowu:
Though this is a big issue a lot of Christians were thought this doctrine when they were very small ... They grew up and yet never questioned all they had learnt .... If it isn't that this thread is for a particular topic I'd have attacked them too because some of them can't even defend the OBVIOUS FACT THAT JESUS IS GOD yet they could recite some Creed as if it were some ritual .... This doctrine isn't bogus to understand, pray take a Bible and a concordance ... The thing with some Christians is that they are afraid that some things or some doctrines they held unto will change .......well at least they would Stop holding or believing doctrines blindly don't be afraid of your views being changed at least all FUNDAMENTAL DOCTRINES CAN BE PROVED FROM THE BIBLE WITHOUT A SINGLE argument ...,..
PLS LETS BE PRAYERFUL AND STUDIOUS AND NOT BE AFRAID OF THE TRUTH. ...

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Re: Is Jesus God? by Peacefullove: 2:36pm On Nov 21, 2017
solite3:
Animals are not created in the image of God. The Spirits of animals is different from that of man.

Explain please .

am waiting

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