PaChukwudi44:


Reproduced here .Please kindly show me where I said so

Maybe because the white people are practising Christianity better than you. They came here and gave us free education,free hospitals etc.Their ministers left the comfort of their home in Europe to spread the faith here while observing austere living .Our brothers today are doing the very reverse of what this people did.Exploiting the people and teaching man-made doctrines claiming there are from God.

Brood of vipers claiming to be men of God

So in ur opinion dat is a reson why they can collect tithe but Nigerian pastors mustn't, well Jesus even said a prophet is without honor in among his household

salvation101:
i mean they were working. They too worked under the Egyptians before their exodus so how were dey different before that day dey were separated cos dey chose to stand on the side of the Lord.. Inheritance was shared after God had separated them.

Jesus!!! so dey were working and earning salaries like ur pastor is doing abi so servitude is wht u called working
slavery is now defined as freedom in ur dic.

just accept that u dont knw wht u are talking abt.

PaChukwudi44:


did you even bother reading that link?
It gave you thooks of the Totah as thus

TORAH (The Law):
•Bereishith (In the beginning...) (Genesis)
•Shemoth (The names...) (Exodus)
•Vayiqra (And He called...) (Leviticus)
•Bamidbar (In the wilderness...) (Numbers)
•Devarim (The words...) (Deuteronomy)

you must be joking.. Or u r a barefaced liar. I stated clearly that torah meant all the book the jew considerd to be the inspired words of God starting from tge laws of moses cos dat was d first Torah. The jews considers all tge books in todays old testament as torah nd i gave u a link why pretend likeu didn't see it in black and white

lonikit:


she doesn't even knw the meaning. her understanding of Levites and pastors proved that she is ignorance of the concept.
half baked Christians everywhere.

a full baked Christian dat does even know that torah encompasses alll the book in the old testament..

salvation101:
you must be joking.. Or u r a barefaced liar. I stated clearly that torah meant all the book the jew considerd to be the inspired words of God starting from tge laws of moses cos dat was d first Torah. The jews considers all tge books in todays old testament as torah nd i gave u a link why pretend likeu didn't see it in black and white

so that is wht the apostles used to teach the gospel of Christ??

lonikit:


Jesus!!! so dey were working and earning salaries like ur pastor is doing abi so servitude is wht u called working
slavery is now defined as freedom in ur dic.

just accept that u dont knw wht u are talking abt.

wait you are saying the levites never worked? . So under servitude dey didn't work? Before the Pharoah dat oppressed dem came into power dey didn't work? Dat my bro is very shallow

[quote author=salvation101 post=62642221]
U r entitled to ur opinion.. Alot of you are hypocrites nevertheless. The attacks has been on Pentecostal churches cos dey are black skinned like you where as no Pentecostal church collect more money from their congregants like orthodox who even collect tithes and several offerings in a single service. I see u all praising d pope and other of them cos dey are white men and not Nigerians like u... Many av come nd gone but we will still pay our tithes [/quote

I don't think you've read any of my comments. I am not pro Catholic in any way. Go and read through my replies on this topic and you'll know my stance. By the way Pentecostals are also kind in huge numbers in the Bible belt region of the US. Sadly the workings of the modern day church are way ahead of you. If privileged, you'll stand 100 feet from any of your Pentecostal preachers and that's as far as you'll get to know about them. The rest of the info you receive is based on media. They aren't called media ministries for no reason. Do yourself, the favour, go through my comments on this topic and you'll know you aren't talking to someone on even your apostle Suleiman's level. Sulieman etc can not walk into a room where Reinhard, Hinn, creflo, Joyce, Copeland etc are in as I do. He'll have to stand outside till he's called and he'll prostrate.

salvation101:


Maybe because the white people are practising Christianity better than you. They came here and gave us free education,free hospitals etc.Their ministers left the comfort of their home in Europe to spread the faith here while observing austere living .Our brothers today are doing the very reverse of what this people did.Exploiting the people and teaching man-made doctrines claiming there are from God.

Brood of vipers claiming to be men of God

So in ur opinion dat is a reson why they can collect tithe but Nigerian pastors mustn't, well Jesus even said a prophet is without honor in among his household

so practising Christianity better than you means that one can receive tithes? re you sure you are okay? I have been arguing with you for hours here saying there is nothing like tithes under Christendom yet you are now lying that I said that whites should receive tithes while blacks shouldnt

salvation101:
a full baked Christian dat does even know that torah encompasses alll the book in the old testament..

torah does not encopass all the books of the old testament please.Quit advertising your ignorance

lonikit:


so that is wht the apostles used to teach the gospel of Christ??

exactly.. According to history the new testament canon first existed 105AD long after the apostles had died..according to Act 17:11. The berean Christians went home daily to search the scriptures to confirm if wat paul preached to dem was true. There was no matt-revelation as at that time

PaChukwudi44:


torah does not encopass all the books of the old testament please.Quit advertising your ignorance

ok u r more knowledgeable than the jews.. I give up on u den. Bye

salvation101:
exactly.. According to history the new testament canon first existed 105AD long after the apostles had died..according to Act 17:11. The berean Christians went home daily to search the scriptures to confirm if wat paul preached to dem was true. There was no matt-revelation as at that time

the new testament canon did not exist by 105 CE.This is a barefaced lie.I am very conversant with church history

salvation101:
site ur souce then and tell us when

the Christian canon was decided by the synod of hippo in 393 CE.This was later ratified by the councils of carthage in 397 CE AND 419 CE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synod_of_Hippo

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3816.htm

PaChukwudi44:

the new testament canon did not exist by 105 CE.This is a barefaced lie.I am very conversant with church history

site ur souce then and tell us when. I even made a mistake it was 170AD they compiled the first new testament canon

Gotquestion.com
Question: "How and when was the canon of the Bible put together?"

Answer: The term “canon” is used to describe the books that are divinely inspired and therefore belong in the Bible. The difficulty in determining the biblical canon is that the Bible does not give us a list of the books that belong in the Bible. Determining the canon was a process conducted first by Jewish rabbis and scholars and later by early Christians. Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing. It was simply a matter of God’s convincing His human followers which books should be included in the Bible.

Compared to the New Testament, there was much less controversy over the canon of the Old Testament. Hebrew believers recognized God’s messengers and accepted their writings as inspired of God. While there was undeniably some debate in regards to the Old Testament canon, by A.D. 250 there was nearly universal agreement on the canon of Hebrew Scripture. The only issue that remained was the Apocrypha, with some debate and discussion continuing today. The vast majority of Hebrew scholars considered the Apocrypha to be good historical and religious documents, but not on the same level as the Hebrew Scriptures.

For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.

The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in AD 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In AD 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with one book of the Apocrypha) and 26 books of the New Testament (everything but Revelation) were canonical and to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (AD 393) and the Council of Carthage (AD 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.

The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.

salvation101:
site ur souce then and tell us when

Gotquestion.com
Question: "How and when was the canon of the Bible put together?"

Answer: The term “canon” is used to describe the books that are divinely inspired and therefore belong in the Bible. The difficulty in determining the biblical canon is that the Bible does not give us a list of the books that belong in the Bible. Determining the canon was a process conducted first by Jewish rabbis and scholars and later by early Christians. Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing. It was simply a matter of God’s convincing His human followers which books should be included in the Bible.

Compared to the New Testament, there was much less controversy over the canon of the Old Testament. Hebrew believers recognized God’s messengers and accepted their writings as inspired of God. While there was undeniably some debate in regards to the Old Testament canon, by A.D. 250 there was nearly universal agreement on the canon of Hebrew Scripture. The only issue that remained was the Apocrypha, with some debate and discussion continuing today. The vast majority of Hebrew scholars considered the Apocrypha to be good historical and religious documents, but not on the same level as the Hebrew Scriptures.

For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.

The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in AD 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In AD 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with one book of the Apocrypha) and 26 books of the New Testament (everything but Revelation) were canonical and to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (AD 393) and the Council of Carthage (AD 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.

The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.

My dear sister.The moratorium canon is not the canon you are using.I think you need to study this things before engaging in any argument on it

Different church fathers argued over what books should be considered canon.It was until a church council was held that the canon established.

PaChukwudi44:


My dear sister.The moratorium canon is not the canon you are using.I think you need to study this things before engaging in any argument on it

That is the first canon and wat we call the complete new testament today didn't exist till about 393AD.. It is worthy of note that the men God used didn't av much controversy with the old testament as dey did with the new. It took alot of debates before some of the books were accepted as scripture and may others were rejected wen dey didn't meet scriptural standard

PaChukwudi44:
Different church fathers argued over what books should be considered canon.It was until a church council was held that the canon established.

sir we need facts. Site ur reference to any canon dat existed before moratoria

salvation101:

U r entitled to ur opinion.. Alot of you are hypocrites nevertheless. The attacks has been on Pentecostal churches cos dey are black skinned like you where as no Pentecostal church collect more money from their congregants like orthodox who even collect tithes and several offerings in a single service. I see u all praising d pope and other of them cos dey are white men and not Nigerians like u... Many av come nd gone but we will still pay our tithes

This is why the modern day church would remain backwards. Everything that happens is classed as a spiritual attack based on the conditioning that has taken place to programme people. Based on this view, would I be right to say Hollywood is under a massive spiritual attack. Christians sometimes can have such a myopic and narrow minded view of life that they don't know when they are entrapped by doctrine of men. I am very sure some people in Hollywood are thinking of Hollywood as a place under a massive spiritual attack with all the recent revelations about movie stars and directors. As I said, sheeple don't even know when they have been programmed .. they have standard predictable responses based on their programmer.

salvation101:
sir we need facts. Site ur reference to any canon dat existed before moratoria

MY DEAR SISTER IAM NOT TELLING YOU THAT THE MURATORIAN CANON DID NOT EXIST IN 170CE.I ONLY EXPLAINED TO YOU THAT THE CHRISTIAN CANON WE USE TODAY IS NOT THE MURATORION CANON.THE MARCION CANON EVEN EXISTED BEFORE THE MURATORIAN CANON.THE FACT REMAINS THAT THESE CANONS WERE NOT EVENTUALLY RECOGNISED BY THE CHURCH.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muratorian_fragment

salvation101:

That is the first canon and wat we call the complete new testament today didn't exist till about 393AD.. It is worthy of note that the men God used didn't av much controversy with the old testament as dey did with the new. It took alot of debates before some of the books were accepted as scripture and may others were rejected wen dey didn't meet scriptural standard

THERE WERE DISGREEMENT IN BOTH THE OLD AND THE NEW TESTAMENT CANON.THAT IS WHY PROTESTANTS ARE USING 39 BOOKS AND THE CATHLICS 46 WHILE SOME OTHER CHURCHES HAVE UP TO 50 IN THE OT CANON

Maximus82:


This is why the modern day church would remain backwards. Everything that happens is classed as a spiritual attack based on the conditioning that has taken place to programme people. Based on this view, would I be right to say Hollywood is under a massive spiritual attack. Christians sometimes can have such a myopic and narrow minded view of life that they don't know when they are entrapped by doctrine of men. I am very sure some people in Hollywood are thinking of Hollywood as a place under a massive spiritual attack with all the recent revelations about movie stars and directors. As I said, sheeple don't even know when they have been programmed .. they have standard predictable responses based on their programmer.

you were here worshipping American Pentecostal pastors (who still collect tithe).. I am a proud sheeple. Thanks goatle.

PaChukwudi44:


THERE WERE DISGREEMENT IN BOTH THE OLD AND THE NEW TESTAMENT CANON.THAT IS WHY PROTESTANTS ARE USING 39 BOOKS AND THE CATHLICS 46 WHILE SOME OTHER CHURCHES HAVE UP TO 50 IN THE OT CANON

the catholics use apocrpha books that even the jews dont consider to be scripture.. Those books are not in jewish torah.

salvation101:
the catholics use apocrpha books that even the jews dont consider to be scripture.. Those books are not in jewish torah.

IT WOULD HAVE BEENN MORE APPROPRIATE TO ASCERTAIN WHEN THE JEWISH CANON WAS FORMED.WHEN CHRISTIANITY AROSE IN THE EARLY FIRST CENTURY AND STARTED USING SIMILAR BOOKS LIKE THEM,THE JEWISH COUNCIL OF JAMNIA HELD IN 100CE SELECTED THE 39 BOOKS IN TODAY'S PROTESTANT OT.THEY EQUALLY REJECTED JESUS AND THE ENTIRE NT.

WHAT PROTESTANTS ARE USING IS WHAT I WILL CALL A HYBRID CANON.THEY ARE USING SCRIPTURES FROM BOTH THE JEWISH COUNCIL OF JAMNI AND THE CATHOLIC SYNOD OF HIPPO.THE PICKED THE OT FROM THE JEWISH CANON AND THE NT FROM THE CATHOLIC CANON

PaChukwudi44:


IT WOULD HAVE BEENN MORE APPROPRIATE TO ASCERTAIN WHEN THE JEWISH CANON WAS FORMED.WHEN CHRISTIANITY AROSE IN THE EARLY FIRST CENTURY AND STARTED USING SIMILAR BOOKS LIKE THEM,THE JEWISH COUNCIL OF JAMNIA HELD IN 100CE SELECTED THE 39 BOOKS IN TODAY'S PROTESTANT OT.THEY EQUALLY REJECTED JESUS AND THE ENTIRE NT.

WHAT PROTESTANTS ARE USING IS WHAT I WILL CALL A HYBRID CANON.THEY ARE USING SCRIPTURES FROM BOTH THE JEWISH COUNCIL OF JAMNI AND THE CATHOLIC SYNOD OF HIPPO.THE PICKED THE OT FROM THE JEWISH CANON AND THE NT FROM THE CATHOLIC CANON

that is not true. The jews only recognized 24books as Torah, the 12 minor prophets is just a book in the Hebrew hence we have 39 as dey stand as individual books in our scripture.. There were other books known as Talmud wch comprised of Ribinic interpretations and some books on revelations but the jews were divided about it.. All the jews agreed about the 24 books the extra was where dey disagreed.

salvation101:
that is not true. The jews only recognized 24books as Torah, the 12 minor prophets is just a book in the Hebrew hence we have 39 as dey stand as individual books in our scripture.. There were other books known as Talmud wch comprised of Ribinic interpretations and some books on revelations but the jews were divided about it.. All the jews agreed about the 24 books the extra was where dey disagreed.

I asked you to study dear.The 24 books of the jewish canon is same as the 39 books of the protestant canon.Some of the books are joined together in the jewish canon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh

PaChukwudi44:


I asked you to study dear.The 24 books of the jewish canon is same as the 39 books of the protestant canon.Some of the books are joined together in the jewish canon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh

i stated that exactly in d post u quoted. I guess u didn't read tru

salvation101:
you were here worshipping American Pentecostal pastors (who still collect tithe).. I am a proud sheeple. Thanks goatle.

I don't worship them. It clearly shows you do not read and all you do is speed stuff out. You haven't proven a single word based point on this thread. Sadly you lack the confidence, the character and the know how to defend a topic way outside your area of understanding. I bet you couldn't even go to God today and ask him show you if you got it wrong on the tithe. Sheeple is a follower of the doctrines of men and not necessary those of Christ.

Maximus82:


I don't worship them. It clearly shows you do not read and all you do is speed stuff out. You haven't proven a single word based point on this thread. Sadly you lack the confidence, the character and the know how to defend a topic way outside your area of understanding. I bet you couldn't even go to God today and ask him show you if you got it wrong on the tithe. Sheeple is a follower of the doctrines of men and not necessary those of Christ.

ill suggest you look into the mirror first. Only one individual answering questions from how many of you. U should be ashamed of ursef cos d best u could do is keep calling me a sheeple, no tangible point. Ur arguments very shallow reeks of ignorance of the Bible nd historical facts. Wen u av done more studies quote me again lets continue. For now, i see u really need a break

[quote author=salvation101 post=62646966] ill suggest you look into the mirror first. Only one individual answering questions from how many of you. U should be ashamed of ursef cos d best u could do is keep calling me a sheeple, no tangible point. Ur arguments very shallow reeks of ignorance of the Bible nd historical facts. Wen u av done more studies quote me again lets continue. For now, i see u really need a break [/quote


Far from it,.I can clearly see you are having a horrible day recieving proper correction left right and centre. mention your Nigerian pastor who is your mentor and I'll arrange a lunch for you with them. The ones you look at on TV and pray to just touch their shoes. From all angles, you are really having bad day on Nairaland. I recommend you deactivate your account. This may actually be the lord speaking to you through wisdom principles. Hopefully you'll listen to him this time and stop yapping. I know I sound authoritative and that's because even in your so called field of knowledge, you really have no idea who you are dealing with. The so called preachers you defend and haven't seen are folks I stroll with whenever. You could loose your faith if you knew their view on sheeple.like you. Do not take this personal, but those at the very top see sheep like you who defend them as fools. Not being rude, I'm just being honest.

Maximus82:
...

bla bla bla bla. Judas issariot feasted on the same table with christ but satan still had him... Even if u are associate with the man i consider as my mentor late Ken E Hagin (who believed in tithing) i still do not consider you intelligent enough to be an authority on any biblical subject cos u reek of pride. Its ur input that should determine if you should be listened to not who u r claiming to be on a faceless forum..

salvation101:
bla bla bla bla. Judas issariot feasted on the same table with christ but satan still had him... Even if u are associate with the man i consider as my mentor late Ken E Hagin (who believed in tithing) i still do not consider you intelligent enough to be an authority on any biblical subject cos u reek of pride. Its ur input that should determine if you should be listened to not who u r claiming to be on a faceless forum..

Your flesh has greatly come out with each chat. I can assure you, you'll soon deactivate your account and I recommend you do. Prayerfully ask God to show you if you have missed the plot. The church is being cleansed and those of us in the know can assure you that those who have fleeced the church for ages are about being cleansed out if it. Just because E Hagin believed in tithes does not mean he is right. I've followed Hagin for years, however learn to filter ministries. His doctrines on confession have created the so called extremes in the word of faith movement that sadly have turned confessions into works unknowingly. You are not confessing enough etc etc. I've deslth with the Hagin ministry. He was an honest man and if you notice his son has been sidelined. Prior to his death he wrote a book called the Midas Touch which I recommend you read, he also called the other top names of the Pentecostal word of faith movement to a meeting to inform them that they were going in error but they refused to listen and some refused to attend this meeting of his. The all claim son of Kenneth E Hagin but they refused his words on their financial recklessness. I respect E Hagin, but not all that he wrote was a 100%. Learn to filter the preacher irrespective of who he or she is. Filter them in love and adjust your life accordingly. I've got probably all of E having books and read them in detail. Find a few pics for ref. Apparentlly Feb Idahosa to the system his dad set in place which were not a 100% right. The church is about to be shaken in line with the cleansing that takes place first in the church. Be blessed, seek God yourself.. would like to know what church you attend, but I can assure you 90% of so called preachers are there for the money. I was like you years ago until I got to the top, saw a clearer view, had to read the word with a pure mind and let God speak to me. As I said, close to 90% of people who have worked at the top with your televangelist leave the faith because of the madness they see. I can't tell most of it as people become suicidal etc. They loose all hope .. focus on Christ. Read the word without a preconceived mindset. Ask God if you really are what is classed as a sheeple (one who follows doctrines of men) and ask for his help. Be blessed. You have the right heart but your lack of knowledge of the word and workings of the church make you the perfect sheeple to be fleeced. When you get to the top, you either challenge it and be labelled a demon, join it or leave the faith, that's the standard outcome.

Maximus82:


Your flesh has greatly come out with each chat. I can assure you, you'll soon deactivate your account and I recommend you do. Prayerfully ask God to show you if you have missed the plot. The church is being cleansed and those of us in the know can assure you that those who have fleeced the church for ages are about being cleansed out if it. Just because E Hagin believed in tithes does not mean he is right. I've followed Hagin for years, however learn to filter ministries. His doctrines on confession have created the so called extremes in the word of faith movement that sadly have turned confessions into works unknowingly. You are not confessing enough etc etc. I've deslth with the Hagin ministry. He was an honest man and if you notice his son has been sidelined. Prior to his death he wrote a book called the Midas Touch which I recommend you read, he also called the other top names of the Pentecostal word of faith movement and informed them that they were going in error but they refused to listen and some refused to attend his meeting. I respect E Hagin, but not all that he wrote was a 100%. Learn to filter the preacher irrespective of who he or she is. Filter them in love and adjust your life accordingly. Apparently Feb idahosa made changes to the system his dad set in place which were not a 100% right. The church is about to be shaken in line with the cleansing that takes place first in the church. Be blessed, seek God yourself.. would like to know what church you attend, but I can assure you 90% of so called preachers are there for the money. I was like you years ago until I got to the top, saw a clearer view, had to read the word with a pure mind and let God speak to me. As I said, close to 90% of people who have worked at the top with your televangelist leave the faith because of the madness they see. I can't most of it as people become suicidal etc. They loose all hope .. focus on Christ. Read the word without a preconceived mindset. Ask God if you really are what is classed as a sheeple (one who follows doctrines of men) and ask for his help. Be blessed. You have the right heart but your lack of knowledge of the word and workings of the church make you the perfect sheeple to be fleeced. When you get to the top, you either challenge it as be labelled a demon, join it or leave the faith, that's the standard outcome.

Rev Hagin has was always against extremism in all area he always talked about balancing scriptures. I have read Midas touch where he talked about biblical principles for prosperity and i have most of his books in softcopy...his son w hagin can never be like him just like Joel Osteen no matter how hard is tries cant be like his father even john hagee son can never be like his father. There is always that difference wen someone starts a ministry from the scratch and tru trials and many tests eventually succeed in the ministry and someone who just get to the top by chance or privilege. No man of God is perfect hence Christ is our example. I still maintain Kenneth Hagin stance on tithing not as a requirement to get to heaven but as a revelation to biblical prosperity