OkCornel:


I'm very sure the Catholic church Bishops and Pope quoted this scripture to Martin Luther as well...

If Martin Luther had chickened out... All Christians would have been paying money (penance) for the forgiveness of their sins.

Cheers

Salvation and, consequently, eternal life are not earned by good deeds but are received only as the free gift of God's grace through the believer's faith in Jesus Christ as redeemer from sin

DBestDoc:


You are disrespecting God by saying you are paying him some sums. Desist from this, ignorance won't be an excuse.

If you say you are paying your tithe to your pastor or his church, your mistake may be forgiven. Never is there a place where God or Jesus or the apostles commanded we give the almighty God our weak Naia. Respect yourself and stop dragging God into your church Doctrine.

Acidosis:


Martin Luther did not spread heresy. He only preached the message of Christ which says;



In those days, majority do not have access to any written book (Bible), hence, the staunch acceptance of whatever the pope says.

We are in a different era today where everyone with a brain, an eye and android phone can pick up the bible and study. Today, we have over 1000 denominations in Nigeria alone, all practising different versions of Christianity according to their own understanding.

See, as far as you're not breaking any law of the land, you're free to practice whatever version of Christianity without anyone shaming anyone and calling them sheeple for simply believing in tithing or investing massively in the Kingdom business.

This is the same way we condemn deeper life folks for rejecting trousers; it is the same way we insult MFM for praying against enemies.

Daddy Freeze can never be Martin Luther of our time. A lot of Churches have long rejected the idea of tithing years before Freeze was born. The Christendom is so wide that we have the freedom to identify with any Church without rubbishing the collective body of Christ on Twitter and in the presence of God's enemies.

KENZINCO:
and this is exactly the problem.
You just imagine a problem for someone and make the imaginary problem a visible problem for yourself . that is the problem . you think a particular person has brainwashed some people , yet you are fooling yourself around fools who are exploiting your foolishness to make themselves more money and fame on the internet

Emmanuel1999:
i will be very glad if sum1 answer this question...
What if we pay tithe to a pastor with a church of 100 capacity and instead of taking care of the widows, he builds a church of 1000 capacity(to grow the church and welcome more brothers) are we going to say it is a sin or the pastor is an pastorpreneur...or he did well...

OkCornel:


It's interesting to see that Freeze is a Hypocrite, but when you twist the TRUTH to support a false doctrine (that tithe is cash or gold and silver) ...what do you call that?

You subtly quoted NLT and MSG translations of the Bible whereas, you of all people should know that the first Bible interpreted from Latin and Greek Septuagint is the KJV (King James Version)

Now let me quote the KJV version of the verses you stated here and [color=#006600]show me where Tithe is paid on generic income...rather than crops and livestock.

[b]Matthew 23:23King James Version (KJV)

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


Luke 18:12King James Version (KJV)

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Note that Luke 18:12 is about a zealous observer of the Law who has gone beyond paying tithes on crops and livestock.
Unless you want to use a zealot's basis for tithing as the generic basis for paying tithes which is against the requirements of the Law...please ride on and lead others into error as well...

Before you rush to include Gold and Silver OR Money as part of titheable items..kindly make reference to what GOD ALMIGHTY has defined tithes to be

Deuteronomy 14 King James Version (KJV)

22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.

24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the Lord thy God hath blessed thee:

25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose:

26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:

29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Does a Pastor that owns land and landed property, Jets and all sorts qualify to be a Levite that has no inheritance? What gives them the scriptural right to collect tithes in monetary form?

wirinet:


And true Christian pastor would not cajole and issue threats to members to pay tithes to build a 1000 capacity church, he would simple be very truthful. He would ask for donations and free will offerings from his 100 capacity members ( he might even ask them to go on fund raising drive), in order to fund the new 1000 capacity church. That was how all old generation churches ( catholic, Methodist, Anglican, etc ) were built.

Emmanuel1999:
i will be very glad if sum1 answer this question...
What if we pay tithe to a pastor with a church of 100 capacity and instead of taking care of the widows, he builds a church of 1000 capacity(to grow the church and welcome more brothers) are we going to say it is a sin or the pastor is an pastorpreneur...or he did well...

petra1:


Firstly tithes are given to God not for widows .

Leviticus 27:30
And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the Lord.

KreativGenius:



I trust you.

Let me add this maybe it may inspire something.

I know of a popular church, i looked at their church spendings and noticed 15M, 20M, 12M for medical expenses for their pastors who had become old,sick and worn out, ask them 6 years ago to give scholarships for students to study medicine and co, they would not, they now spend heavily on ....OMG..Tosin, my spirit is angry, i'll stop here

OkCornel:


The annoying part is that Pastorpreneurs have tricked people into thinking tithe is 10% of their monthly salary. Whereas the Bible/Torah clearly states that it's 10% of Harvested crops and livestock.

Anybody giving 10% of their salary is doing voluntary donation to God's work, but they've been tricked into thinking they're "tithing"


Big scam I tell ya

petra1:


Wrong! Geneva bible came before kjv and There were about 5 translations even before the Geneva bible



We know what kjv says , I only quoted the other for your own understanding.



You brought gold and silver in . People gave money value for tithes and offering under the law period. Get. A clue from Abraham.



The problem with anti tithers is that they only dwell on the minor at the expense of the major.

Read my thread . There were 3 tithes . Tithe to God. Tithe for the poor and tithe for vacation . I explained it here :https://www.nairaland.com/4169634/error-daddy-freeze




Over 90% of pastors in major churches are volunteers like you who have their jobs and businesses . They are not entitled to support from church funds. They rather put their money in the work .in CEC ,redeemed ,winners ,deeper life etc . Only few pastors who are made to resign and work full time that are given allowances . Kindly get your facts right

Acidosis:


Martin Luther did not spread heresy. He only preached the message of Christ which says;



In those days, majority do not have access to any written book (Bible), hence, the staunch acceptance of whatever the pope says.

We are in a different era today where everyone with a brain, an eye and android phone can pick up the bible and study. Today, we have over 1000 denominations in Nigeria alone, all practising different versions of Christianity according to their own understanding.

See, as far as you're not breaking any law of the land, you're free to practice whatever version of Christianity without anyone shaming anyone and calling them sheeple for simply believing in tithing or investing massively in the Kingdom business.

This is the same way we condemn deeper life folks for rejecting trousers; it is the same way we insult MFM for praying against enemies.

Daddy Freeze can never be Martin Luther of our time. A lot of Churches have long rejected the idea of tithing years before Freeze was born. The Christendom is so wide that we have the freedom to identify with any Church without rubbishing the collective body of Christ on Twitter and in the presence of God's enemies.

OkCornel:


Let me look for Geneva Bible and Quote then;

Matthew 23:23

1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

23 ¶ [a]Woe be to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: for ye tithe mint, and anise, and cummin, and leave the weightier matters of the law, as judgment, and mercy and fidelity. These ought ye to have done, and not to have left the other.

[b]Luke 18:12
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

12 I fast twice in the week: I give tithe of all that ever I possess.

Like I've stated earlier...there's nowhere God instructed that tithes should be paid in monetary form.

1) If the GOs and Pastors have other businesses they do, the scripture in Deutronomy 14 states that Levites are beneficiaries of tithes because
they do not have any inheritance in the Land.
How does Levites with no inheritance automatically translate into GOs and Pastors with Landed properties and Jets and flashy cars who are
now demanding for tithes? What gives them the scriptural rights into hoodwinking people to pay monetary tithes?

2) Animal sacrifices have occurred even before the Law, and as a Principle...it even transcends the Law. Please show me where Jesus
condemned animal sacrifice, and tell us why you are not doing animal sacrifice if Jesus Himself never condemned it?

petra1:


Even going by the literal translation of what you quoted . What do you understand by possession . It simply refers to worth what you own. Cash and kind . Can grain make up all you possess? . Abraham gave tithes of all



Let me ask you .How does a dog seller give his tithe or offering knowing it's an unclean animal




Most pastors are volunteers or lay pastors . They have their jobs or business .



Shadows in the law are fulfilled in christ . Burnt offering or blood sacrifice was a sin offering which was a shadow of christ . Tithe was never a shadow of anything . It's an eternal principle just as offering ,alms giving ,prayer ,fasting etc

OkCornel:


My dear, Luke 18v12 is a zealot's perspective on tithing. The zealot has gone beyond the requirements of the law to justify his self righteousness. Are you now using the standard of a zealot to replace God's standard requirement of what should really be tithed?

If you insist on Matthew 23 v 23, hope you know that the Law was in full force by then as Jesus had not fulfilled the Law.
If you are using Matthew 23 v 23 to justify tithing...in that context...why aren't you doing animal sacrifice or keeping the sabbath (Saturday) day holy?

petra1:


Why are you giving offering and alms

OkCornel:

Bro, I am giving at my discretion and not because of any "offering" obligations under the Law.
Sacrificial giving as directed by the Holy Spirit and the requirements of the New Covenant (Jesus Christ) is my benchmark.
Kindly answer my questions now that I have answered yours...
And you have not answered how Pastors with landed properties, luxurious cars and jets are now the Levites without inheritance that should stand on the pulpit to ask for tithes...
Thank you.

OkCornel:


Bro, I am giving at my discretion and not because of any "offering" obligations under the Law.

Sacrificial giving as directed by the Holy Spirit

and the requirements of the New Covenant (Jesus Christ) is my benchmark.[/b]

Kindly answer my questions now that I have answered yours...

And you have not answered how Pastors with landed properties, luxurious cars and jets are now the Levites without inheritance that should stand on the pulpit to ask for tithes...
Thank you.

Emmanuel1999:

owk tanks then how will the tithe get to God does he have an account...when he said when i was hungry u didnt feed me... He neva meant himself he meant the needy

mickeymimi:
Pastors will be sayin sow seed of faith to challenge God .,,... I read bible n found out that "seed" never refers to money,,,it refers to Gods word ,

2 Corinthians 9:10 (KJV)
Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness

petra1:


That's freewill offering the principle was From the old Testament as well . It's an eternal principle . So there no New Testament giving . Giving is giving based on the old principle



What requirement of the New Testament ?



What's the question



The similarity is not about the tribes . But rather the responsibility Levites are dedicated full time to the ministry . Just as some pastors are workers are dedicated to full time ministry .

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Elhven so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Pastors who make money or have a job don't require support from church funds but anyone who serve fully in ministry deserves suooort ,allowance ,salary etc . Be it a staff ,singer ,widow ,pastor etc .

petra1:


That's freewill offering the principle was From the old Testament as well . It's an eternal principle . So there no New Testament giving . Giving is giving based on the old principle



What requirement of the New Testament ?



What's the question



The similarity is not about the tribes . But rather the responsibility Levites are dedicated full time to the ministry . Just as some pastors are workers are dedicated to full time ministry .

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Elhven so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Pastors who make money or have a job don't require support from church funds but anyone who serve fully in ministry deserves suooort ,allowance ,salary etc . Be it a staff ,singer ,widow ,pastor etc .

plainbibletruth:

I doubt if Petra1 will give you direct answers to your questions.

He wants to continue to believe that tithing is REQUIRED under the present dispensation of grace. He is still not quite decided though, whether to stand on the tithing of the Law or stick to his "eternal principle" angle.

It will be interesting to see him answer CLEARLY.

Emmanuel1999:

u didnt even answer the questions... i neva said the pastor coerced them to pay tithe... Just like hw u find it cool nt to pay tithe dy r also pple hu find it cool to pay tithe... And if u r been forced it does nt mean every one is been forced... Pls in my church we are nt force can u kindly tell me hw dy force pple.... Do dy hold guns to thier head or dy drag thier purse with them?

OkCornel:


Based on the bolded...I acknowledge the fact that these people must survive, and that is where sacrificial giving and sharing from the congregants comes in so that no one will lack.

The fact that these Pastors and those who are called full time into the ministry should eat does not justify twisting the scriptures into deceiving people to part with 10% of their monthly salary (a.k.a. gold and silver) under the guise of "tithing"

I am not against giving to the altar...I am against the false doctrine of compulsory "monetary tithe" extortion

OkCornel:



If you insist on Matthew 23 v 23, hope you know that the Law was in full force by then as Jesus had not fulfilled the Law.

These are my questions;
1.) If you are using Matthew 23 v 23 to justify tithing...in that context...why aren't you doing animal sacrifice or keeping the sabbath (Saturday) day holy?

2.) How does Pastors with landed properties, luxurious cars and jets qualify to be the Levites without inheritance that should stand on the pulpit to ask for tithes?

3.) Please show a scripture where God instructed tithes to be paid in monetary form.
Thank you

petra1:


Wrong !

2 Corinthians 9:10 (KJV)
Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness

petra1:


When you give to a minister ,it's not for his survival , you're the one getting blessed . The freewill sacrificial giving is a different thing entirely . There are different kinds of giving . Tithes ,offering ,seed,alms ,honor for parents etc we must do all.



It's rather the non givers who twist scriptures to excuse their conscience .



It's God institution . You give to God 10% of what he had blessed you with . God never changed it nor replaced it .right from the days of Abraham .