salvation101:
i av nothing to prove to you or anybody as long as u choose to be dishonest by ignoring my questions.. If u don't answer mine, i wont answer urs.. "Its called fairness "

Peacefullove:


Huh ? Huh? Busted ! So u have no knowledge of the language used in writing your bible?

what did I just hear ?

The Hebrew word for soul is Nephesh, and yes it appeared in that verse ma . So Darby is right .

the question stands

aigboeben:
Were the other translations wrong?

aigboeben:
Were the other translations wrong?

Peacefullove:


I told you the result of this thread will Answer your question .

If you are so keen on that, Why not open another thread ... Don't let us digress from the topic at hand .

its looking at the core doctrine of Christianity, Salvation by Jesus through his death

Peacefullove:


Teachings of Christianity, he came to die for mankind's sin .

he ( Jesus ) himself . not Body of Jesus .



As defined by someone on this thread , The real person ...

So am asking if the real person called Jesus died or not ? or he himself didn't die just his body died

salvation101:
wen u r ready for us to continue, den u will do d needful

aigboeben:

For the period he was dead

was he active outside the physical ( bodily ) realm ?

What did he mean when he told the guy on the cross that he would be with him in paradise that day?

Peacefullove:


Its okay . Let the guys continue .

So far you were not able to prove anything instead your post raised questions you refuse to reply .

I didn't create a question for you, It was a result of what you posted

Peacefullove:


Dead in the actual sense of the word ?



To be active is to be alive , Didn't you said he was dead for the period ?



But did he went to Paradise that day ? don't forget u already said he was dead for that period

salvation101:
how is it deviating? Answer in ur opinion if Abraham is in d grave or in Paradise, simple

Peacefullove:
kindly tell me what you think about this verse of the Christian Bible.
Do the whole man die or only his body dies ? . Consider the said verse.



"Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ' Father into your hand I entrust my spirit ' ' After he said this, he died."

You will notice that I underlined the word " He" there is a reason for that and that's exactly why U need to answer the next question

Who does the Pronoun " He" died ; represents ?

a. Jesus Christ DIED

b. only Body dies

C. I dont know


your response ? to validate if the whole of man dies or just his body .

cc : howdy

Salvation101

aigboeben

Ferisidowu



Pastors of religion forum, your attention is needed . Did Jesus really Die for sins ?

.

Ferisidowu:
Peacefullove

Anyways we aren't pretenders, before we delve deep I ask humbly that this post be read and digested by the OP cos I wonder why one would bring a question or challenge yet, wouldn't read people's answer to comprehension.

1) we don't pretend to ourselves that we know everything,. (unlike the JWs who becloud themselves with the notion that they understand all scriptures and all doctrines, EVEN WHEN BIBLE SAYS WE KNOW IN PART, they unlike us KNOW IN FULL)

I Admit that this is a doctrine is hardly understood yet we don't disturb ourselves with it as if it were the doctrine of justification ( am not saying it isn't important) ....

Now

“The LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.” Gen. 2:7

Referring to the physical body Solomon states “For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.” Eccl. 3:19-20

Is the uncopreal or (breath_spirit (soul)) also from the ground?

He then states in Ecclesiastes. 12:6-7 when speaking of both the body and spirit “ Remember him-before the silver cord is severed, or the golden bowl is broken; before the pitcher is shattered at the spring, or the wheel broken at the well, and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. (NIV)

If a man dies, shall he live again? Job 14:14
From our experiences in life it is easy for us to understand the truth that when a person dies, his body begins its decay back into dust. But what about a man's spirit? Where does it go at death? This study presents a couple of possible answers derived from Scripture. Then it answers the most critical question: "What must I do to be saved from my sins and receive forgiveness and eternal life?"



WHERE WILL YOU GO WHEN YOU DIE?

Surely the greatest comfort for us as we face the end of our days on this earth is the knowledge of where we will go when we die. What will happen to us? Will we still exist even without a physical body? The answers to these questions can only be answered by God and I believe He has answered them in His word to us, the Bible. We are not left in the dark about the unseen world that awaits us.

So where does a person go when he dies? There are several ideas from different theological perspectives but one of the most logical ones, based on reasoning from several scriptures, is that all people go to Hades when they die. Hades is understood to be the unseen abode of the spirits of the dead as they await the return of the Lord and the resurrection. Consider these scriptures and then follow them to their reasoned conclusion:

1. Luke 23:43 - Jesus said to the thief on the cross “Today you will be with me in Paradise.” So Jesus went immediately to Paradise when he died.

2. Acts 2:27,31 “For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption … he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.” Jesus died and while his physical body reposed in the tomb, he (his soul) went to Hades (the unseen world of the dead). He did not remain in Hades, however. On the third day he returned from Hades, being raised from the dead.

3. Luke 16 and the story of the rich man and Lazarus - "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom … Abraham said, … between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us. ”

We see here that Paradise was not the same as Hades, but rather one of two compartments located within Hades. Lazarus died and went to “Abraham’s bosom”. That should correspond to Paradise where the thief on the cross went when he died. The rich man died and went to Hades, but he was in torment and not Paradise. There was a division between the two places, Torment and Paradise, so that no one could pass from one to the other.

4. The reasoned conclusion is that all the spirits of all who died went to Hades, the place of the dead. Some (the forgiven, the just, the righteous) were in a good situation and some (the unforgiven, the unjust, the evil) were in a bad situation.

5. One day, Jesus will return to raise the bodies of those who died, both the saved and the lost ("Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.” John 5:28,29) and then He will judge all men "because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." Acts 17:31).
6. The lost (those in the torment side of Hades) will go to their eternal punishment (Hell) but the saved (those in the Paradise side of Hades) will go to their eternal reward in Heaven. “And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." – (Matthew 25:46).

The conclusion is the result of logically reconciling the various verses that speak about the destiny of people when they die. There is no clear, unified statement in the Bible.

I would like to suggest the possibility, that, based on various scriptures, this scenario changed dramatically when Jesus arose from the dead.
I would suggest that since the resurrection of Jesus, the souls of the saved who die go directly to heaven instead of going to Hades. According to this idea, all the saved who had already died and were in the Paradise side of Hades, left Hades and went with Jesus to Heaven. The lost remain in Hades awaiting the Day of Judgment. Since the resurrection, those Christians who die now go directly to heaven instead of going to Hades. If correct, this interpretation could explain several Scriptures:

Before reading these scriptures, though, we must recognize that, in order to understand what the Bible says, we must understand the words used. Usually, the best way to define a word is to see how it is used in the Bible.

DEATH- the cessation of life. Physical death is defined as the physical body ceasing to function - heart, lungs, brain, etc.

James 2:26 – “the body without the spirit is dead”. Death is when the spirit abandons the body.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 “Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.”

2 Peter 1:13, 14,15 “Yes, I think it is right, as long as I am in this tent, to stir you up by reminding you, knowing that shortly I must put off my tent, just as our Lord Jesus Christ showed me. Moreover I will be careful to ensure that you always have a reminder of these things after my decease.”

Luke 23:46 “And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, ‘Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.' Having said this, He breathed His last.”

GRAVE -is the tomb or something that marks the tomb, that is, the place where the dead body is placed.

HADES -from the Greek word “aidos” meaning “not seen” or “not known”. It is the unseen world of the spirits of those who are dead. It corresponds to the Hebrew word “sheol”.

Matthew 11:23 "And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.”

Matthew 16:18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.”

Luke 16:23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.”

Acts 2:27 “For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.”

Acts 2:31 "he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.”
Revelation 1:18 "I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.”

Revelation 6:8 “So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.”

Rev 20:13,14 “The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

SHEOL
Gen 37:35 “And all his sons and all his daughters arose to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted, and he said, ’For I shall go down into the grave to my son in mourning.’ Thus his father wept for him.”

Num 16:33 “So they and all those with them went down alive into the pit; the earth closed over them, and they
perished from among the assembly.”

Job 17:16 “Will they go down to the gates of Sheol? Shall we have rest together in the dust?"

Psalm 49:15 “But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah”

Prov 9:18 “But he does not know that the dead are there, That her guests are in the depths of hell.”

Isaiah 14:9 "Hell from beneath is excited about you, To meet you at your coming; It stirs up the dead for you, All the chief ones of the earth; It has raised up from their thrones All the kings of the nations.”

Isaiah 28:15 “Because you have said, ‘We have made a covenant with death, And with Sheol we are in agreement. When the overflowing scourge passes through, It will not come to us, For we have made lies our refuge, And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves.’"

Jonah 2:2 “And he said: "I cried out to the LORD because of my affliction, And He answered me. ‘Out of the belly of Sheol I cried, And You heard my voice.’”

Ezekiel 32:21 “The strong among the mighty Shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with those who help him: 'They have gone down, They lie with the uncircumcised, slain by th esword.'


Some erroneously translate it as “hell”. All of the references above have the word “aidos” (hades) or its Old Testament equivalent “sheol”

HELL - from the Hebrew “geenna” meaning the valley of Hinnon or valley of lamentation. This was a valley outside the city of Jerusalem where the Jews sacrificed their children to the god Moloch, throwing them into the fiery furnace. The New Testament uses the word to describe the eternal destiny of the damned but never for the present state of the dead.

Now, if it be true that, since the resurrection, Christians who die now go directly to heaven instead of going to Hades, this could explain several Scriptures:

1. Matthew 16:18 - Jesus promised “…I will build my church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.” Hades is seen as a type of prison. That means that those in Hades are not free to leave at will. A dead person cannot return to life by his own will power. Imagine Hades as a place with doors to enter and to leave, but the exit door or gate was closed. Jesus promised that the doors of Hades would not prevail against the church (the saved people). If today, the gates of Hades do not prevail against the church, then the church is not held bound or prisoner there. Christians who pass on are not held captive in the place of the dead. When Jesus left Hades on the third day, he left the exit doors open on the good side of Hades (Paradise).

2. Ephesians 4:8,9 - speaking of the resurrection and ascension of Jesus, “When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive…” Jesus died, was buried, descended to Hades, but was resurrected and ascended to heaven, taking with him the saved who had been held captive in Hades. Imagine Jesus exiting Hades, leaving the gates open on thegood side and the saved of Hades leaving with him, also going up to Heaven.

3.All this agrees with the desire of Paul (Philippians 1:23) “to depart and be with Christ.” His hope, upon dying, was not to go to Hades where Jesus is no longer to be found. To be with Christ, Paul would have to go to Heaven, where Christ is. See the same hope in 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 and 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10.

4. In the sixth seal of Revelation 6:9, John saw the souls of martyred Christians that were under the altar and that altar was in front of God’s throne in heaven (Revelation 8:3). These martyrs were not in Hades but in heaven.

5. Jesus promised that those who live and believe in him would never die. (John 11: 25,26). Since the resurrection, those who live and believe in Jesus don’t die! Even though their physical bodies quit working and have to be discarded, their souls or spirits do not go to the place of the dead (Hades) but go directly to Heaven to be with the Christ who declared, “I am the way, the truth and the life” (John 14:6).

6. If the saved in Christ who already died are with him in heaven, then I Thessalonians 4:14 makes sense when it says that when Jesus returns, he will bring in His company those who sleep in him. The souls of Christians, when their physical bodies die, go to be with Jesus in heaven where they will remain until His coming. They will return with him and receive, at the resurrection, their new, glorious, immortal bodies.

7. In 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, Paul spoke of a man who was caught up to the third heaven, that is, to Paradise. For the Jews, in the Bible, the first heaven meant the atmosphere, the second heaven meant outer space and the third heaven was God’s dwelling place. The third heaven, God’s dwelling place, is here called Paradise, the same word Jesus used with the repentant thief on the cross (“Today, you will be with me in Paradise”). It is as if Jesus, leaving the Paradise side of Hades, transferred Paradise from Hades to Heaven. Before the resurrection, Paradise was a part of Hades but is now a part of Heaven.

8.This may explain why Steven, dying for the gospel (Acts 7:54-60), said “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit”. When he died, his request was granted - Jesus received his spirit. Today, the spirit of Steven is in heaven with Jesus.

And so the true Christian, today, at the moment of his death, may also say “Lord, Jesus, Receive my spirit.” trusting full well that He will.



Whichever may be the correct answer to the question concerning the immediate destiny of a person who dies, the eternal destiny of every person is either heaven or hell. The most critical question, then, has to be "What must I do to be saved eternally?" He who finds the answer to that question will be faced with a serious choice to make.

Barristter07:


I must commend your effort ay handling this question , I also hope the OP would read and say his view point

Your post tries to equate Soul with Spirit ( my opinion ), Also it pictures that the Spirit of a man carries the Man's thought process or personality , Can we prove this in light of Psalm 146:4 which says thought of a man perish at death , not that it is Continued by the spirit , also , if the spirit of a man is a personality, Why wasn't Jesus in heaven the very day he died since he prayed for his spirit to return to his Heavenly Father ?

salvation101:
exactly...

Christ himself suffered when he died for you, and with that one death he paid for your sins. He was not guilty, but he died for people who are guilty. He did this to bring all of you to God. [b] in his physical form he was killed, but he was made alive by the Spirit. And by the Spirit he went and preached to the spirits in prison.[/b]Those were the spirits who refused to obey God long ago in the time of Noah. God was waiting patiently for people while Noah was building the big boat. And only a few—eight in all—were saved in the boat through the floodwater.
1 Peter 3:18‭-‬20 ERV

Peacefullove:
kindly tell me what you think about this verse of the Christian Bible.
Do the whole man die or only his body dies ? . Consider the said verse.



"Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ' Father into your hand I entrust my spirit ' ' After he said this, he died."

You will notice that I underlined the word " He" there is a reason for that and that's exactly why U need to answer the next question

Who does the Pronoun " He" died ; represents ?

a. Jesus Christ DIED

b. only Body dies

C. I dont know


your response ? to validate if the whole of man dies or just his body .

cc : howdy

Salvation101

aigboeben

Ferisidowu



Pastors of religion forum, your attention is needed . Did Jesus really Die for sins ?

.

Peacefullove:


Sir, are you telling me if a man dies .. the whole of him dies NOT just ordinary body ?

prinzfavian:

Yes the whole of him dies.... Eccl 9:5
No other part goes on living after a person dies...
When a man dies his spirit returns to God who gave it at (gen 2:7) and his flesh returns to the dust.... Eccl 12:7.

Man is a soul... and since man dies, it means soul dies... Even the Bible confirms that a soul do dies at ezekiel 18:4,20 and be destroyed @ acts 3:23..... Even animals are referred to as souls (numbers 31:28)
Please reason along, if the soul were to be immortal why do we come across verses of the Bible that uses the term "living soul"... Wouldn't that be repitition of words or tautology... Since the soul is said to always be living... Why the reference to a" living soul"?... So this proves that the soul is not immortal, instead it shows that for a man to die, it's his spirit or breath that needs to be taken out of him (psalm 104:29)... There is no even mention of Man having a soul in that verse, just breathe.
So, don't get it twisted d soul isn't what a man has, it's what a man is... The soul is made up of flesh and spirit (gen 2:7).

Julivas:


Op, I want to believe that you know the truth.
Before answering your question, what's do understand by saying death of human being?

If your answer is the same as is generally accepted , then Jesus Christ died.......but glory to God, he rose up again to complete the work of salvation.
Hope you get it.

Ferisidowu:
Peacefullove

Anyways we aren't pretenders, before we delve deep I ask humbly that this post be read and digested by the OP cos I wonder why one would bring a question or challenge yet, wouldn't read people's answer to comprehension.

1) we don't pretend to ourselves that we know everything,. (unlike the JWs who becloud themselves with the notion that they understand all scriptures and all doctrines, EVEN WHEN BIBLE SAYS WE KNOW IN PART, they unlike us KNOW IN FULL)

I Admit that this is a doctrine is hardly understood yet we don't disturb ourselves with it as if it were the doctrine of justification ( am not saying it isn't important) ....

Now

“The LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.” Gen. 2:7

Referring to the physical body Solomon states “For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.” Eccl. 3:19-20

Is the uncopreal or (breath_spirit (soul)) also from the ground?

He then states in Ecclesiastes. 12:6-7 when speaking of both the body and spirit “ Remember him-before the silver cord is severed, or the golden bowl is broken; before the pitcher is shattered at the spring, or the wheel broken at the well, and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. (NIV)

If a man dies, shall he live again? Job 14:14
From our experiences in life it is easy for us to understand the truth that when a person dies, his body begins its decay back into dust. But what about a man's spirit? Where does it go at death? This study presents a couple of possible answers derived from Scripture. Then it answers the most critical question: "What must I do to be saved from my sins and receive forgiveness and eternal life?"



WHERE WILL YOU GO WHEN YOU DIE?

Surely the greatest comfort for us as we face the end of our days on this earth is the knowledge of where we will go when we die. What will happen to us? Will we still exist even without a physical body? The answers to these questions can only be answered by God and I believe He has answered them in His word to us, the Bible. We are not left in the dark about the unseen world that awaits us.

So where does a person go when he dies? There are several ideas from different theological perspectives but one of the most logical ones, based on reasoning from several scriptures, is that all people go to Hades when they die. Hades is understood to be the unseen abode of the spirits of the dead as they await the return of the Lord and the resurrection. Consider these scriptures and then follow them to their reasoned conclusion:

1. Luke 23:43 - Jesus said to the thief on the cross “Today you will be with me in Paradise.” So Jesus went immediately to Paradise when he died.

2. Acts 2:27,31 “For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption … he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.” Jesus died and while his physical body reposed in the tomb, he (his soul) went to Hades (the unseen world of the dead). He did not remain in Hades, however. On the third day he returned from Hades, being raised from the dead.

3. Luke 16 and the story of the rich man and Lazarus - "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom … Abraham said, … between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us. ”

We see here that Paradise was not the same as Hades, but rather one of two compartments located within Hades. Lazarus died and went to “Abraham’s bosom”. That should correspond to Paradise where the thief on the cross went when he died. The rich man died and went to Hades, but he was in torment and not Paradise. There was a division between the two places, Torment and Paradise, so that no one could pass from one to the other.

4. The reasoned conclusion is that all the spirits of all who died went to Hades, the place of the dead. Some (the forgiven, the just, the righteous) were in a good situation and some (the unforgiven, the unjust, the evil) were in a bad situation.

5. One day, Jesus will return to raise the bodies of those who died, both the saved and the lost ("Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.” John 5:28,29) and then He will judge all men "because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." Acts 17:31).
6. The lost (those in the torment side of Hades) will go to their eternal punishment (Hell) but the saved (those in the Paradise side of Hades) will go to their eternal reward in Heaven. “And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." – (Matthew 25:46).

The conclusion is the result of logically reconciling the various verses that speak about the destiny of people when they die. There is no clear, unified statement in the Bible.

I would like to suggest the possibility, that, based on various scriptures, this scenario changed dramatically when Jesus arose from the dead.
I would suggest that since the resurrection of Jesus, the souls of the saved who die go directly to heaven instead of going to Hades. According to this idea, all the saved who had already died and were in the Paradise side of Hades, left Hades and went with Jesus to Heaven. The lost remain in Hades awaiting the Day of Judgment. Since the resurrection, those Christians who die now go directly to heaven instead of going to Hades. If correct, this interpretation could explain several Scriptures:

Before reading these scriptures, though, we must recognize that, in order to understand what the Bible says, we must understand the words used. Usually, the best way to define a word is to see how it is used in the Bible.

DEATH- the cessation of life. Physical death is defined as the physical body ceasing to function - heart, lungs, brain, etc.

James 2:26 – “the body without the spirit is dead”. Death is when the spirit abandons the body.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 “Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.”

2 Peter 1:13, 14,15 “Yes, I think it is right, as long as I am in this tent, to stir you up by reminding you, knowing that shortly I must put off my tent, just as our Lord Jesus Christ showed me. Moreover I will be careful to ensure that you always have a reminder of these things after my decease.”

Luke 23:46 “And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, ‘Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.' Having said this, He breathed His last.”

GRAVE -is the tomb or something that marks the tomb, that is, the place where the dead body is placed.

HADES -from the Greek word “aidos” meaning “not seen” or “not known”. It is the unseen world of the spirits of those who are dead. It corresponds to the Hebrew word “sheol”.

Matthew 11:23 "And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.”

Matthew 16:18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.”

Luke 16:23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.”

Acts 2:27 “For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.”

Acts 2:31 "he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.”
Revelation 1:18 "I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.”

Revelation 6:8 “So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.”

Rev 20:13,14 “The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

SHEOL
Gen 37:35 “And all his sons and all his daughters arose to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted, and he said, ’For I shall go down into the grave to my son in mourning.’ Thus his father wept for him.”

Num 16:33 “So they and all those with them went down alive into the pit; the earth closed over them, and they
perished from among the assembly.”

Job 17:16 “Will they go down to the gates of Sheol? Shall we have rest together in the dust?"

Psalm 49:15 “But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave, For He shall receive me. Selah”

Prov 9:18 “But he does not know that the dead are there, That her guests are in the depths of hell.”

Isaiah 14:9 "Hell from beneath is excited about you, To meet you at your coming; It stirs up the dead for you, All the chief ones of the earth; It has raised up from their thrones All the kings of the nations.”

Isaiah 28:15 “Because you have said, ‘We have made a covenant with death, And with Sheol we are in agreement. When the overflowing scourge passes through, It will not come to us, For we have made lies our refuge, And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves.’"

Jonah 2:2 “And he said: "I cried out to the LORD because of my affliction, And He answered me. ‘Out of the belly of Sheol I cried, And You heard my voice.’”

Ezekiel 32:21 “The strong among the mighty Shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with those who help him: 'They have gone down, They lie with the uncircumcised, slain by th esword.'


Some erroneously translate it as “hell”. All of the references above have the word “aidos” (hades) or its Old Testament equivalent “sheol”

HELL - from the Hebrew “geenna” meaning the valley of Hinnon or valley of lamentation. This was a valley outside the city of Jerusalem where the Jews sacrificed their children to the god Moloch, throwing them into the fiery furnace. The New Testament uses the word to describe the eternal destiny of the damned but never for the present state of the dead.

Now, if it be true that, since the resurrection, Christians who die now go directly to heaven instead of going to Hades, this could explain several Scriptures:

1. Matthew 16:18 - Jesus promised “…I will build my church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.” Hades is seen as a type of prison. That means that those in Hades are not free to leave at will. A dead person cannot return to life by his own will power. Imagine Hades as a place with doors to enter and to leave, but the exit door or gate was closed. Jesus promised that the doors of Hades would not prevail against the church (the saved people). If today, the gates of Hades do not prevail against the church, then the church is not held bound or prisoner there. Christians who pass on are not held captive in the place of the dead. When Jesus left Hades on the third day, he left the exit doors open on the good side of Hades (Paradise).

2. Ephesians 4:8,9 - speaking of the resurrection and ascension of Jesus, “When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive…” Jesus died, was buried, descended to Hades, but was resurrected and ascended to heaven, taking with him the saved who had been held captive in Hades. Imagine Jesus exiting Hades, leaving the gates open on thegood side and the saved of Hades leaving with him, also going up to Heaven.

3.All this agrees with the desire of Paul (Philippians 1:23) “to depart and be with Christ.” His hope, upon dying, was not to go to Hades where Jesus is no longer to be found. To be with Christ, Paul would have to go to Heaven, where Christ is. See the same hope in 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 and 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10.

4. In the sixth seal of Revelation 6:9, John saw the souls of martyred Christians that were under the altar and that altar was in front of God’s throne in heaven (Revelation 8:3). These martyrs were not in Hades but in heaven.

5. Jesus promised that those who live and believe in him would never die. (John 11: 25,26). Since the resurrection, those who live and believe in Jesus don’t die! Even though their physical bodies quit working and have to be discarded, their souls or spirits do not go to the place of the dead (Hades) but go directly to Heaven to be with the Christ who declared, “I am the way, the truth and the life” (John 14:6).

6. If the saved in Christ who already died are with him in heaven, then I Thessalonians 4:14 makes sense when it says that when Jesus returns, he will bring in His company those who sleep in him. The souls of Christians, when their physical bodies die, go to be with Jesus in heaven where they will remain until His coming. They will return with him and receive, at the resurrection, their new, glorious, immortal bodies.

7. In 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, Paul spoke of a man who was caught up to the third heaven, that is, to Paradise. For the Jews, in the Bible, the first heaven meant the atmosphere, the second heaven meant outer space and the third heaven was God’s dwelling place. The third heaven, God’s dwelling place, is here called Paradise, the same word Jesus used with the repentant thief on the cross (“Today, you will be with me in Paradise”). It is as if Jesus, leaving the Paradise side of Hades, transferred Paradise from Hades to Heaven. Before the resurrection, Paradise was a part of Hades but is now a part of Heaven.

8.This may explain why Steven, dying for the gospel (Acts 7:54-60), said “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit”. When he died, his request was granted - Jesus received his spirit. Today, the spirit of Steven is in heaven with Jesus.

And so the true Christian, today, at the moment of his death, may also say “Lord, Jesus, Receive my spirit.” trusting full well that He will.



Whichever may be the correct answer to the question concerning the immediate destiny of a person who dies, the eternal destiny of every person is either heaven or hell. The most critical question, then, has to be "What must I do to be saved eternally?" He who finds the answer to that question will be faced with a serious choice to make.

salvation101:
you are dodging my question yet u seek answers from me, be honest at least and answer my question.. Where do you think Abraham is right now? In d grave where his sons buried him or in paradise?

salvation101:
the Bible says the lifr of the flesh is in d blood where did u get soul from.. Soul is a different part of a man... Body is one, soul is one and spirit is one... Flesh is body

prinzfavian:

Stop getting this wrongly, Soul as used in the Bible has a traditional rendering of the Hebrew word neʹphesh and the Greek word psy·kheʹ. In examining the way these terms are used in the Bible, it becomes evident that they basically refer to
(1) people, (Ge 2:7, Num 31:28, 1 Pe 3:20)
(2) animals, (Ge 1:20, Num 31:28) or
(3) the life that a person or an animal has. (eccl 3:18-20)
In contrast to the way that the term “soul” is used in many religious contexts, the Bible shows that both neʹphesh and psy·kheʹ, in connection with earthly creatures, refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal. In many translations, these original-language words have most often been rendered, using such terms as “life,” “creature,” “person,” “one’s whole being,”... Ecclesiastes 3:19 helps us to see that Man and animal are same in the sense that they both have one spirit not soul, and both have same outcome when they die... So if a dog doesn't have an immortal soul that goes on living after it has died, how can a man have?...
Man doesn't have a soul, Man is a soul (gen 2:7)
Soul isn't immortal cos It can dies (Ezekiel 18:4,20)

aigboeben:

Good explanation. But is man a soul or a spirit? Because if man is a soul and the soul dies, with what does he face eternity? Remember, what he posseses in eternity is who he really is

aigboeben:

You didn't answer my questions? Could Jesus have lied about what he said to the guy ?

JesusPeople:


The real man is a spirit, and he has a soul and he lives in a body

prinzfavian:

Abraham is in his grave resting,just as those that died before and after him is too (ecclesiastes 9:5),he is awaiting resurrection as promised @John 5:28.... There won't be any reason for resurrecting him, if he is already alive now...

aigboeben:

You have not provided answer to my question. Let me add some more :
1)Which part of Man goes to Paradise (if he makes it) after his death?
2) In Genesis 2vs7 what does the breath of God stand for?
3) If indeed as the scriptures have it in Ezekiel , the soul dies then is the soul only useful here on Earth?
4) Is the soul a material or immaterial part of Man?

aigboeben:

Is his grave Abraham's bossom? What exactly is Abraham's bossom?

prinzfavian:


I already did boss, but I'll answer these ones too...

1). Before we can deduce in what form man will be in paradise, we first need to know the location of this paradise... Is it on earth or in heaven, because if it's heaven... Then flesh and blood can't survive there (1cor 15:50)...automatically, man's form or being has to be spiritual... That is, man will be a spirit....
But according to history, the precious paradise we had wasn't in heaven but here on Earth (gen 2:8, 9, 15)... So it's reasonable to conclude that the location of paradise will be here on Earth (psalms 37:11)....and if that's the case, the form of Man will be the way it is now, A soul, only that we will be perfect just the way Adam was before he sinned.

2). The breath of God there stands for the "spirit", that's why it's said at ecclesiastes 12:7 to return to God who gave it at Genesis 2:7.

3) Well, according to the same scripture, a soul consist of flesh and spirit, and hence can die (Ezekiel 18:4,20)...and flesh and blood can't survive in heaven (1 cor 15:50).... It's logical to say, being a soul is perfect only for earthly conditions.... No wonder why the angels in the past first had to become souls by taking up materialised bodies for them selves before coming down to earth... (Ge 6:1-4, Jude 6).

4). Soul is not a part of Man but man himself.... It's spirit and flesh that is part of Man.