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African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. / African Militaries - Discussed And Dissected / What Countries Have The Weakest Militaries In Africa? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by 61mech: 6:35pm On Feb 09, 2018 |
You're spot-on about the maintenance issue needing to be resolved first. However, newer aircraft designs are much less maintenance intensive than older models. Grippen for example, requires much less ground crew and hours. The Embraer also have 2 engines compared to 4 even though they're jets. Not to sure if that will offset the slightly higher maintenance cost of jet engines. Contrary to popular belief, jet engines do fine on unpaved rough airfields. It has more to do with engine placement and landing gear. After all, a turboprop is also a type of jet engine and can get damaged when ingesting debris. Embraer stated that it can land on the the maximum (worst) semi-prepared runway defined by MIL-A-008866B and, for soft field operations, perform 10 passes at a CBR 4 airfield (loose fine sand or soft clay). C-17's also do it routinely. Another advantage of the KC-390 is that it comes with air refueling built in, whereas a c-130 is a specialized model. Air refueling would be a game changer for how we operate in Africa. Imagine if we could have had Grippens in the air over Bengui in a few hours. The KC-390 is actually quite a bit cheaper than the new C130 as well. I we were clever about it, we could get them to co-develop the Marlin air-air missile with us like we did with the Darter as part of the deal to buy some KC-390's. Marlin would probably not happen without co-funding. That Antonov is something else though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZbF2OrNkhE patches689: 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 8:41pm On Feb 09, 2018 |
61mech: patches689: 1) DoD has only extracted a commitment from Treasury to look at the UN re-imbursement going back directly to the SANDF (rumour is they'll do it and the cut in real inflationary terms will be equal to this; so no change); 2) Kevin Wakefield at Armscor is trying to get SAFAIR and others to comply with UN tender regs, as Ethiopian Airlines has done spectacularly; 3) Despite the Brazilians painting one of the KC-390 in our colours, no way are we going for it - they tried to tie A-Darter funding to Denel participating in the technical phase, but that ship sailed when they wouldn't budge on the engine for our requirements; 4) There's a standing offer from the Yanks on the C-130J Super Herc (which we should accept if govt limits its ambition to a regional role); 5) If govt decides we play a continental role, the only heavy-lifters we can afford are only propfans from Ukraine and Russia (I myself am partial to Denel's industrial participation in the westernised AN-7X programme), with the following orbat: a) Heavy Lift/air to air refuelling/transport/EW&C2; b) Medium Lift/ Maritime/ Paratrooping/transport/E&C INT; c) Light Lift / paratrooping/C2 6) I'm gonna get slaughtered for this: I can't see affording an Oryx replacement but an extensively modified and expensively improved Eastern bird, if new; a) We could resuscitate our heavy chopper capability with 2nd hand EDA Chinooks; b) Cheaply replace Oryx with EDA Black Hawks. All in all, choppy seas ahead. 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by tdayof(m): 12:32am On Feb 10, 2018 |
2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Sizzorkay: 3:11am On Feb 10, 2018 |
God bless that man, the fact that he said this publicly to the other guy's face, showed balls of steel lol, African leaders need to stop prostrating all over the Western world lol. Now you've said it, turn those words into action. And before asking those in foreign lands to come home, government also needs to do it's part. Nice speech. Hopefully other leaders see this and learn something from it, Oyinbos aren't gods, they just care more about one another than we do about ourselves. Working together is key. tdayof: |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 6:37am On Feb 10, 2018 |
tdayof: Amazing speech. Hope it turns into action though. |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by tdayof(m): 8:36am On Feb 10, 2018 |
Sizzorkay: In Africa, there are various potentials. The avenue to showcase those potential is what we lack and that's due to the government. Our leaders should put more action. Developed countries spend alot on R& and other technological capabilities. Half of that money may go into a project that fails or technological innovations that won't go into use but will serve only as technological demonstrators. China closed her border to avoid importing some goods prior it's it's development. Now, China is a technological developed country. If our leaders can invest money in meaningful projects and not some damn projects like buying cars and some rubbish. We should talk less and take more actions. |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Xbee007(m): 9:07am On Feb 10, 2018 |
Syria just shot down an Israeli Fighter jet. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/10/israeli-fighter-jet-shot-down-by-syrian-fire-says-military 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by tdayof(m): 9:12am On Feb 10, 2018 |
Xbee007: Israel has a record of launching a repraisal attack. Syria would be getting ready for that. |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by lionel4power(m): 3:56pm On Feb 10, 2018 |
just 1 f-16... I think they'll start shooting down more and more. 3 Likes
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by 61mech: 6:02pm On Feb 10, 2018 |
Good to see there's some movement on some of the problems we discussed. Truth be told, Embrear would never change engine options for the small nr. of aircraft the SAAF would order. Doesn't make any financial sense. I'm a huge fan of the AN-70, but Im afraid that bird will die in the nest. There's just no way I see it ever going into production without the Russians ordering. The Ukrainians are just not able to build financing or arms deal offsets into any offer. Unfortunately that's what's slowly killing SA's own arms industry. We are unable to put together big arms deal because of this even though our products and engineering is on par with anything coming out of Europe. The AN-70 might sell, but not nearly enough to make it financially viable. Airbus says it has to get to 300 units with the A-400 to turn that bus around (no pun intended). Anyone buying the Antonov aircraft will be screwed when it eventually goes out of limited production along with its spare parts. Rooivalk is a good case study in all the problems with poor countries trying to compete with the big boys that have the backing of governments with deep pockets. Even when the product is superior. They Brazilians have the same problem in that regard. That's why I think we should be working together with them to bring our products to market. A-Darter is good example of this. That missile would have never made it to production without Brazil participating. This type of cooperation was actually what built most of our defense industry when SA and Israel worked together. frumentius: 3 Likes |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by patches689: 7:36pm On Feb 10, 2018 |
61mech: This. Frankly, we should just bite the bullet and get C-130's - I beleive the Americans are offering them at the same price they sell them to the USAF, while we allready maintain the capacity to operate and maintain them. If the economy turns around in the next decade, we could still pick up a couple (3-5) A400's for limited strategic lift, that would be enough to drop an entire Para battalion in one flight and resupply it with 185, 000 tonnes of gear in another. For reference, the entire battle of Bangui only lead to the consumption of 10 tonnes of ammunition. Frankly, the SANDF needs to focus on two things: Sepula/Vistula and the Oryx issue. Rooivalk 2.0 should be put to bed, it hurts to say it but it is what it is. There is no shortage of attack helos in the world and there are many things we could better do; work on Hind's, jump in with the Indians on their attack helo etc etc etc In terms of what gets used the most priority should be on protected mobility, mobility and the helo question. Regardless of what the future conflict looks like, those three things are essential for any SANDF success. I am also starting to sour on the Navy getting the OPV's, Helmoeds argument regarding the issue is, excuse the pun, watertight. 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 9:14am On Feb 11, 2018 |
Nigerian Air Force Gulma UAV 4 Likes
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 9:15am On Feb 11, 2018 |
Nigerian Army Ara MRAP Impressive beast 4 Likes
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 9:16am On Feb 11, 2018 |
Nigerian army PF2 LAV 5 Likes
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 9:18am On Feb 11, 2018 |
Nigerian Air Force Regiment training 7 Likes
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 9:22am On Feb 11, 2018 |
Nigerian Navy SBS insertion techniques 5 Likes
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by kikuyu1(m): 2:05pm On Feb 11, 2018 |
61mech: So finally,the Oryx is on the way out! That design lasted over 5 decades-the first prototype flew in 65. I really like your redesign,the bigger engines and longer tail;in life, though everything is eventually replaced. This Groot Koos borrows the Hind concept,a mixed gunship and battle taxi,though she's def large to be duelling with raggedy arse 14.5 mm armed militias. How far is the GK? I hope its more than just a workable design for now. |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by kikuyu1(m): 2:13pm On Feb 11, 2018 |
patches689: I feel your pain! I was also an admirer but global realities make the sale of a heavy gunship very very difficult! I know how the Brit army sale was sabotaged by the US-that's just how they roll at this level. If you remember I actually advocated for a Rooivalk lite,a simpler more basic thus cheaper version. 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by patches689: 4:39pm On Feb 11, 2018 |
kikuyu1: Problem with a light is then that you are competeing either with the Tiger (and French tricks) or the converted light-helicopters which will always be even cheaper. |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 4:52pm On Feb 12, 2018 |
For a non-state actor, the Iraqi Peshmerga are really good at getting SA stuff that falls off the back of a truck . 3 Likes
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by obonomaa: 2:00am On Feb 13, 2018 |
GH 5 Likes
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by obonomaa: 2:04am On Feb 13, 2018 |
GHA 5 Likes
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by medic555(m): 8:39am On Feb 13, 2018 |
please generals in the house i have been silently following this thread but one thing baffles me who trains this sbs commandos because they you look like the best trained and equipped of all fighting forces |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by golfsierra: 10:21am On Feb 13, 2018 |
GSU RECCE AP RDU
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by golfsierra: 10:22am On Feb 13, 2018 |
RDU RBPU
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by QuietMynd: 7:22pm On Feb 13, 2018 |
They were trained by the British special forces medic555: |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by patches689: 6:19am On Feb 14, 2018 |
frumentius: That feel when the Peshmerga have better personal equipment than the SANDF. Couple of things - is the SANDF looking into doing something about a modern plate carrier? Pat 83 and our BPVs are great and all, but it would be nice to see something that can do both. In sure you are aware of how much I like the new British system being phased in - I love the idea of a single scalable system. Helmets too, it seems we are still using the old M87 helmet - a big, clunky and ageing design which, most worryingly, seems to poorly fit the SANDFs new demographics (too big). The fact that it needs a separate cover to provide its cammoflauge is another problem - just another thing to worry about and lose. Also, surprised countries deployed in Somalia haven't gotten the Neopaw, it would be an exellent tool for stopping VBIEDs. You wouldn't need that many - it wouldn't have to be a standardized section weapon - just enough to equip various access points around bases and FOBs, we are talking a couple hundred at most. |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by kikuyu1(m): 9:13am On Feb 14, 2018 |
Slightly off-topic,but not by much. Saffas,what's the exact situation with Zuma? He's being asked to leave by the ANC but is staying put-WTF!? What's Ramaphosa's attitude to defence and security? Is he aware of the need to increase spending especially given SA's wider continental role? Does he acknowledge the existence of outside forces wishing to balkanise SA via local and/or regional proxies and thus the need for an effective military? Patches869,mikecza,saengine,frumentius what can you tell us? |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by kikuyu1(m): 9:22am On Feb 14, 2018 |
I've just seen the Israeli Spear in action and I'm having a rethink! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OrlIIiZJJk Fyi,the typical recoil force of a 120 mm mortar is up to `15 tonnes-how will the vehicle suspension absorb that force indefinitely? How many rounds will it fire before the suspension and frame fall apart? Go to 0.40. The man'f says :Spear uses an innovative recoil system that reduces the recoil and allows the mortar to be fired from lighter (under six ton) vehicles. The ”soft recoil” system reduces the force of the recoil over 90 percent. The rate of fire is also reduced a bit (from 20 to 16 rounds a minute) but with the use of GPS guided shells this is less of a factor.https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htart/20140529.aspx I'd be happier if it had supporting hydraulic arms to lift and stabilise the vehicle like other mobile arty systems. |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by 61mech: 3:10pm On Feb 14, 2018 |
I think a Denel got it just right with the RG-31 MMS / AGRAB. Its heavier, has spades and has a armored cab in case the crew get caught by counter battery fire. The French Caesar is probably the worst when it comes to recoil damage. Take a look at some of the Youtube vids. Especially the ones where they fire full charge. That chassis would not hold up in full on combat. It's fine when you just run it in exercises where you don't really push it hard, but in combat you might have to fire so much at max range you can shoot the barrel out. Take the recent USMC artillery missions in Syria for instance. Compare the Caesar to the T-5-52's spade system. One of them were designed by engineers who knows what sustained fire missions in conventional combat look like. Look at around the 50s mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frPm70dTrhk kikuyu1: 2 Likes |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 4:56pm On Feb 14, 2018 |
Exactly Mike. Ma Deuce has served well but it's time to retire. MikeCZA: |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by 61mech: 5:42pm On Feb 14, 2018 |
Looks like they are using 12.7mm in the vid? Could they have a caliber conversion in mind for cheaper training ? Or maybe you can field convert it to 12.7mm for longer range. Vid says you can do it with a barrel swap, but I'm not sure if the bolt-face and extractor would work on both calibers. Frumentum: |
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