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Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by budaatum: 11:34pm On Apr 14, 2018 |
superhumanist:Thank you. Now butter, refute that and I might seriously entertain your op. |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by budaatum: 11:35pm On Apr 14, 2018 |
Butterflyleo:You are speaking about an abstract known in religion that is called god! |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Butterflyleo: 11:36pm On Apr 14, 2018 |
darkchild64: For the third and final time Dummy. Science is based on empirical proofs limited to this universe. God exists OUTSIDE our universe which is why he is called THE UNCAUSED CAUSE AND THE IMMUTABLE MOVER How do you even reason? |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Nobody: 11:36pm On Apr 14, 2018 |
Butterflyleo: why are you pained ? is it my fault that you cannot describe how this you nameless "God" created the universe, or you know that giving us an explanation of how he created the universe would make us spot the "God" you are referring to. After you would be claiming that you are intelligent,you want to engage atheists,mtchewww |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by budaatum: 11:37pm On Apr 14, 2018 |
Butterflyleo:Are you seriously not directing the above to yourself? |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Butterflyleo: 11:37pm On Apr 14, 2018 |
budaatum: Please stick to the OP or risk a ban for derailing. I am talking about scientific laws and arguments which support an intelligent purposeful origin or creator of the effect we see today and call our universe. |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by budaatum: 11:39pm On Apr 14, 2018 |
Butterflyleo:I guess you've just about summed it up nicely. I can't help but smh. |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Butterflyleo: 11:39pm On Apr 14, 2018 |
darkchild64: So unless I mention the God I am referring to you atheists cannot disprove my argument? Are you saying atheists are retards? 1 Like |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by MuttleyLaff: 11:44pm On Apr 14, 2018 |
darkchild64:Abide by OP's rule and piece of advice to stick to "God" darkchild64:SMH. You must that desperate to, in an open and unashamed manner twist: "No one can describe beyond conventional wisdom how "God" created the universe" into "no one knows how "God" created the universe" 1 Like |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Butterflyleo: 11:46pm On Apr 14, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff: You saw that too. |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by vaxx: 11:47pm On Apr 14, 2018 |
[quote author=budaatum post=66717286] Your question was rather meaningless since no one has decided a I needs the permission of another driver to drive a car. In fact, all one needs is a car key, and the know how, provided the car is legally ones.you do not get the analogy? i doubt . my analogy was based on hierarchical system, you are a car driver who needs a permission from another car driver who in turn will depend on another driver till infinity. so actually you may have the key with the car yet you cannot drive because you still depend on another driver instruction(see it like a driver in a loose bus terminal). i do not want to make the analogy more brain tasking . lets live it this way. The uncaused causer is not an axiom. It is an hypothesis at best and has not been proven to be true or valid in anyway whatsoever!what we can see tells us that phenomena are at some point causeless. Things happen for absolutely no reason (at least sub-atomically), and that filters up over time. And please, the topic being discussed is difficult in its own right. Don't further complicate things by not being clear in your writing or you will open yourself to be misunderstood.can you be more clear at this point. do you mean you cannot grasp my drift? am ready to make it clearer |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Dalam0n: 11:50pm On Apr 14, 2018 |
Butterflyleo: You presented your opinion not evidence. If you have scientific proof you won't be here. You just gave your poor opinion about science. Imagine you calling the big bang a hypothesis, even a fool knows that the big bang is a theory and not a hypothesis. You don't know that but you are claiming scientific knowledge. 1 Like |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Nobody: 11:55pm On Apr 14, 2018 |
Butterflyleo:that is not what I said,all I asked you to do was to tell us how "God" created the universe, when science comes up with any conclusion it must have methods to arrive at that you want to prove that "God" exists using science,and I am offering you the opportunity to be scientific HOW DID GOD CREATE THE UNIVERSE ? I am not asking you of the name of the "God" p.s quit the cursing already,I thought you were a Christian and the bible says that calling someone bad names would take you to hell,abi you no dy fear hell again 1 Like |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Butterflyleo: 12:01am On Apr 15, 2018 |
Dalam0n: I hear. Can you not refute the OP with your RICH opinion of science? I would really love to read that for once. |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by MuttleyLaff: 12:13am On Apr 15, 2018 |
darkchild64:"God" is not just as scientific as the next scientist but is more How many times do you want it repeated that God created the universe not much different to how, Bill Gates, created the world's largest software business, Microsoft, using a combination of knowledge and method(s)? darkchild64:Good, we can have a sigh of relief darkchild64:"Are you saying atheists are retards?" - Butterflyleo © Where, how and when is the cursing in the above question asked? It isnt amusing crying wolf when none's in sight. darkchild64:Playing the accusation card and doing the "bible says..." in the style of the infamous accuser, a bit too early, arent you now 1 Like |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by vaxx: 12:14am On Apr 15, 2018 |
frank317:i do not think it is all about Christianity only, even pagan, atheist everybody regardless of their faith and knowledge often justify the believes, wanting to ascertain or establish that their beliefs as real knowledge, not just that, and in doing so we nominate something else outside the premises as a justifier . we back it up or use it to support it. for instance Muslim back up the VALIDITY OF quran using ALLAH and that is their real knowledge status. for example , i believe the water is colorless, i justify it by looking at the water and i observed it is colorless.so if my observation is questioned, which means i have to also justify my observation( for example, how do i know that what i observed in the water is indeed colorless)and we repeat this infinitely, will it not become problem? in fact it will indeed turn to knowledge problem. read more on the concept called knowledge problem in philosophy online. |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by danvon(m): 12:57am On Apr 15, 2018 |
Dalam0n:If you believe in a deist God shouldn't there be for all measure a deist devil? |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Gggg102(m): 2:49am On Apr 15, 2018 |
Butterflyleo: The first cause could also be an unintelligent force. It could be like gravity but different. it might not be omnipotent, good/bad, requiring of worship. The first cause doesn't need to be self aware or conscious/intelligent .. it only needs to be the first cause. it could also be multiple uncaused causes that resulted in the universe. First cause isn't necessarily God/a God. 1 Like |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by budaatum: 2:51am On Apr 15, 2018 |
vaxx:I do get your analogy vaxx, it just doesn't make sense. You say I need permission from another driver who in turn needs permission from another driver till infinity. If that is the case, then we'd just have to keep asking permission from another driver till we give up and just find another means of getting to where we want to get to. And that will apply as long as we continue to need the permission of another driver. If however, at some point of asking another driver, I can get tired of asking another driver and just jump in the car and drive it, then I mustn't have needed the permission in the first place and shouldn't have bothered with the rule to begin with. So which is it, do I need any permissions to drive the car or could I just say "to hell with it", jump in the car and drive off? What I'm saying is, write clearly so you can be understood! 1 Like |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by budaatum: 3:05am On Apr 15, 2018 |
vaxx:One can justify anything one wants if one tried hard enough. Some people justify blowing up those who don't believe what they believe, for instance, but not many would agree with their justification now, or would we? The fact is that one's justifications can be based on one's subjective viewpoint, which basically amounts to "because I said so", and which is what butter is attempting to do on here. He is bound to hit against someone else's subjective "because I said so too", as he seems to have done. It is the reason we ask for evidence beyond "because I said sos"! |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Gggg102(m): 3:29am On Apr 15, 2018 |
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Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by budaatum: 3:38am On Apr 15, 2018 |
Butterflyleo:If this were true, I wonder then why you then attempt to use "empirical proofs [sic] limited to this universe" to prove a thing "exists OUTSIDE our universe". Have you just not, in one more swoop amongst many, proved that your thread is baseless, and just pointless clickbait? 2 Likes |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Dalam0n: 6:33am On Apr 15, 2018 |
Butterflyleo: You don't even know basic science yet you are yapping thrash. How can someone that says the big bang is a hypothesis engage in any serious scientific talk? All what you've stated are arguments you copied from other apologist that have been debunked already. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Dalam0n: 6:36am On Apr 15, 2018 |
danvon: God is n idea and the deist created theirs. Deist don't believe in the devil generally. They only believe in a non intervention creator God that create the universe. |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by frank317: 6:55am On Apr 15, 2018 |
Butterflyleo: Uncaused cause still admits that God is caused. It simply means that God exists on his own, it does not mean he has no begining? Since u are relying on science can u give a scientific prove of how God is uncaused? Where is outside the universe? Has science seen a place known as outside the universe? Is that where a community of Gods exists or wherw only one God lives? I think the universe is the uncaused cause |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Nobody: 6:56am On Apr 15, 2018 |
Gggg102:very good point,from what the op is saying what he terms "God" is the first cause that was UNCAUSED,but then why should we start assuming that "the first cause" is a being,going by the op the only thing we know about the first cause is that it was "the UNCAUSED CAUSE,the IMMUTABLE MOVER" is that enough for us to describe "the first cause" as a being that must be worshipped, which is obviously what the whole "God" idea is. My opinion about this is simple,maybe there was a first cause,an UNCAUSED CAUSE as butterflyleo would say,which began everything hence you won't be entirely wrong if you say this "first cause" created the universe, however this "first cause" doesn't necessary have to be a being with human characteristics like Yahweh and Zeus,it doesn't have to have a nature,it doesn't have to be tangible,it doesn't have to be anything we know as GOD!!!! the "first cause",is merely " the first cause" because that is the only thing we know about it and funny enough it is an assumption 1 Like |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by frank317: 7:00am On Apr 15, 2018 |
Butterflyleo: Whats this? Are u reall that scared of me? Have i said anything that deserve this? |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Nobody: 7:04am On Apr 15, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff:since you want it this way alright tell us exactly how "God" created the universe,I am not satisfied with your answer,tell us the method(s) he used,stop bringing the Bill Gates comparison because the methods and steps he took in creating the software is known,his source of knowledge is also known,so tell us more about how "God" used this thing you call "knowledge" to create the universe,and the "method" he used |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by frank317: 7:05am On Apr 15, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff: So for this thread, we should assume the bible is a lie? |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Butterflyleo: 7:07am On Apr 15, 2018 |
Gggg102: I have already tackled this earlier so would not want to waste my energy with typing a new response. I will simply quote my earlier comment. There is an uncaused cause and a very intelligent one at that because infinite regression is nullified scientifically when it comes to the origin of the universe and even you support that the universe has an origin since you say you believe in the big bang. |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by frank317: 7:09am On Apr 15, 2018 |
Butterflyleo: Does this scientific law and arguement supports that there is a creator thatbis uncaused? |
Re: Proof Of God. Scientifically Derived. by Butterflyleo: 7:09am On Apr 15, 2018 |
budaatum: Yes I can use the empiricism of science to prove that the law of motion, argument from causality and gravity had an intelligent cause which triggered their effects. And of course intelligence is only attributable to a being and not an inanimate object. You would do well to read the OP again for sake of clarity. 1 Like |
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