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Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by 9inches(m): 3:27am On Apr 17, 2018 |
brocab: You got caught dude. I told you earlier you can copy something and expatiate on it to make your point,but not copying almost someone's entire argument. ![]() ![]() |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by 9inches(m): 4:10am On Apr 17, 2018 |
brocab: Just 1hour ago, Lizzie made new video for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF9wyXW-CxA |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 4:31am On Apr 17, 2018 |
![]() 9inches: |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 4:36am On Apr 17, 2018 |
{1 Timothy 3:15} say's nothing about your Church-Lizzie, you need to grow up, and listen to facts not fiction.. 9inches: |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by 9inches(m): 5:10am On Apr 17, 2018 |
brocab:So what does it say if not that the Church is God's household and the pillar and foundation of truth? |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 5:14am On Apr 17, 2018 |
Ha ha ha-now this is funny-man read your bible, If "1 Timothy is about Old testament, then who gave Lizzie the authority to preach the gospel? Lizzie needs to go back to kindergarten and learn how to glue and paste. {1 Timothy 2:12} "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." Paul wrote to Timothy to encourage him in his responsibility for overseeing the work of the Ephesian church and possibly the other churches in the province of Asia {1 Timothy 1:3} This letter lays the foundation for ordaining elders {1 Timothy 3:1-7} provides guidance for ordaining people into offices of the church. {1 Timothy 3:8-13} In essence, 1 Timothy is a leadership manual for church organization and administration. {1 Timothy 2:5, 1 Timothy 2:12, 1 Timothy 3:1-2, 1 Timothy 4:9-10, 1 Timothy 6:12} "Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses." The Tradition Paul wrote were the first letter Paul wrote to Timothy, Paul begins the letter by urging Timothy to be on guard for false teachers and false doctrine. However, much of the letter deals with pastoral conduct warnings about false teachers, and the church’s responsibility toward single members, widows, elders, and slaves. All throughout the letter, Paul encourages Timothy to stand firm, to persevere, and to remain true to his calling. in Christ.. So in your case-Lizzie know it all-it won't matter how much the bible shows you, you will never see it coming-stop reading comic books. 9inches: |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 5:19am On Apr 17, 2018 |
If it said the Catholic Church-then I wouldn't have an argument, but sadly for you, the argument remains. 9inches: |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by 9inches(m): 5:35am On Apr 17, 2018 |
brocab: Which part of her argument or the bible verses do you want to argue against? |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by 9inches(m): 5:39am On Apr 17, 2018 |
brocab:So do you believe now that the Church is God's household and the pillar and foundation of truth and without the Church you would not have had the bible you have now? |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by Nobody: 11:43am On Apr 17, 2018 |
[ quote author=9inches post=66719044]No one laid hands on you, so like all your pastors, you have no authority to lead a church or act as a commissioned authority. All the apostles were laid hands on. The apostles in turn laid hands on anyone they were sending to lead the Church or evangelize. That chain of laying of hands continued till this day. So unless an authority laid hands on you, you are not officially commissioned by Jesus Christ to represent Him as a clergy and so can not become an authority on your own.who laid hands on the Apostles? What has laying of hands got to do with authority to preach? Who laid hands on Paul to have the right to preach who are the church? How do you know the church teaching are in line with scripture? A catholic knows nothing about scriptures. There is nothing wrong in scrutinizing what Paul or Timothy preaches using scripture. In fact those that did it were called noble. If you don't scrutinize your church teachings from scripture you are foolish. @bolded, the answer to that is Catholics! Because the Gospel was preached not to the early Christians. Jesus gathered a group of men, taught, prepared them and commanded them to go and preach the Gospel. He did not leave them any book; he did not ask them to write any book. The apostles only wrote out of necessity, and what they wrote were mostly reminders of what they already preached orally. This means that the people who received both the oral and written teaching have more knowledge and understanding of the message than those whose knowledge are limited to the written message only.what did Jesus and the apostles preach if not the gospel? The apostle only at wrote out of necessity this is a lie. Jesus didn't need to give them a book because they already have and the holy ghost will write more for them. No book of the bible is by mans initiative. You in deceit. This below is why the apostles wrote. 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: For almost 400 years, the Christians of those days had no bible to refer to. Therefore, the Church that Jesus Himself had set up had to primarily transmit His Word orally (some rare individual manuscripts did exist, but were mainly limited to Churches, and not considered divinely inspired as sacred scripture until 382 AD).this is a lie, they early Christians already hand the old testament and already recognised the letters of the apostles as scripture So without the bible you would still have the Catholic Church, but without the Catholic Church you would never have bible. It's easy to understand, the Church has existed before the bible [gospel] was written and subsequently compiled.this is the common lie with your cult group. So the Roman catholic church wrote the bible? The bible that even Daniel read! Hence you can change it. So the roman cultolic church gave moses the law, created God and form Jesus? . Although the Pharisees were custodians of the law they never boasted that they gave the law. They are a lot better than you. Which part of the bible did ur cult bring? 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 1 Like |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 1:14pm On Apr 17, 2018 |
I am not interested.. {Matthew 7:6} “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces. I do hope you know what the above is saying to you Liz>your full time rejections against the Word of God, is casting you further away from the truth. 9inches: |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 1:40pm On Apr 17, 2018 |
Is this now a trick question? I believe Christ is the head of the Church-but He is not the head of your Church only.. I believe there are true believers, that preaches Christ inside the Catholic Church-but I don't believe you are any of them. I believe you need to repent, and cry out unto the Lord, and ask Him to forgive you. I believe you are standing alone-at a cross road, not knowing which direction to go. I believe the Lord's calling you-but the desires of your heart, had blinded you. I believe you have time-seek and you will find, knock and it will be open, ask, and it will be given, say's the Lord.. 9inches: 1 Like |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by 9inches(m): 5:42am On Apr 19, 2018 |
solite3:While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then, completing their fasting and prayer, they laid hands on them and sent them off (Acts 13:2-3). You do not require laying of hands to be able preach ordinarily; lay faithfuls surely can preach to one another. But authorization is required to lead a Church (which includes preaching, indoctrination, reproof, correction, instruction, forgiving sins, offer the Sacrifice (Luke 22:19) and dispense the various sacraments (Matthew 28:18; John 20:22, 23). For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands (2 Timothy 1:6). Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery [body of elders] (1 Timothy 4:14). Laying of hands is a gesture used in the Old Testament to signify the transmission of authority from Moses to Joshua (Num 27:18-23, Deut 34:9). The early Christian community used it as a symbol of installation into an office, eg. the Seven (Acts 6:6) and Paul and Barnabas (Acts 13:3). To fulfill their exalted mission, the apostles were endowed by Christ with a special outpouring of the Holy Spirit coming upon them, and by the laying of hands they passed on to their auxiliaries the gift of the Spirit, which is transmitted down to our day. who are the church?The Church is God's household and the pillar and foundation of truth. The fact that we don’t have any writings from Jesus, or that he didn’t hand-write the Bible on his own is not a big problem for Catholics. While the Bible is essential, it is not the only means of transmitting the Faith from one generation to the next. For this, Jesus established his Church, which Apostle Paul calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim 3:15). This is why Jesus chose his disciples and groomed them. They would be the method of transmission. How do you know the church teaching are in line with scripture?We know this because the scripture came from the Church. It was members of the Body of Christ (the Church) that wrote the scripture (NT); their followers down the line through generations compiled the books and decided which written text makes up the bible and which text does not. So, without the Church you would not have had the bible you have now; at best, you might have a tiny portion of it. And of course, the authors wrote more or less a summary of what they already preached orally. There is nothing wrong in scrutinizing what Paul or Timothy preaches using scripture. In fact those that did it were called noble. If you don't scrutinize your church teachings from scripture you are foolish.Of course. I never said anything on the contrary. A catholic knows nothing about scriptures you kinda have a point there. Some, no!... actually, a lot of catholics know nothing about scriptures. View it this way: a lot of kids from wealthy families do not go through the "normal" grind the average kids go through. This is because their parents have done more than enough hardwork, gathered enough resources to be able to provide most of their needs, and so the kids are often than not, prone to abuse of privilege. They also tend be vulnerable when they are exposed to the "real world" of the average kids. But here's the clincher, some of the wealthy kids who do not take their privileged background for granted, and who put in some extra work on their own generally tend to do better than the average kids, while the many who take theirs for granted tend to fall even below the average kids. In this analogy, the Wealthy parents = the Mother Church (a.k.a Catholic Church). what did Jesus and the apostles preach if not the gospel? The apostle only at wrote out of necessity this is a lie.Tell me you did not intentionally edit my comment. I said "the Gospel was preached not read to the early Christians. Yes, the apostles only wrote out of necessity. For example, Jude (in Jude 1:3) writes, "Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints." You might ask, what necessitated this appeal? Here's why: "For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed—ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ" (Verse 4). And how do I know they have already been taught? Here: "I wish to remind you, although you know all things, that [the] Lord who once saved a people from the land of Egypt later destroyed those who did not believe" (Verse 5). Pay attention here! "In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them. "Jesus didn't need to give them a book", not because they already have the Old Testament (that would not be enough. The OT is not Gospel); nor because the holy ghost will write more for them (the Holy Spirit, just like Jesus himself did not write anything)... Jesus didn't need to give them a book because Jesus had already prepared them and commanded them to go and preach the Gospel. There was no command from Jesus to write the Gospel. What's important is to preach the Gospel whether written or unwritten. This below is why the apostles wrote.2 Timothy 3:16 is not the point of argument here. The argument was (is) bordered on "Church vs Scripture". I was asked who would know about God if there is no bible, and my reply was the group of people who received the oral teachings of the apostles and passed it down from generation to generation. These group of people know everything in the bible and more! @bolded, you don't pay attention. Now read slowly: 9inches:There have always been disagreements and contestation on which books are divinely inspired and which are not. Some books were were believed to be inspired, but did not make up the bible. For example, the Bible speaks of many different prophets who heard the word of God (Gad in 1 Samuel 22:5, Nathan in 2 Samuel 7:2, Ahijah in 1 Kings 11:29, to name a few). Acts 11:26 speaks of prophets who came from Jerusalem into Antioch. The Bible also speaks of female prophetesses such as Miriam (Exodus 15:20), Deborah (Judges 4:4), and Anna (Luke 2:36), among others. All of these people, given the title as “prophet” or “prophetess” in the Bible were no doubt-inspired by God, but their material was not canonized. Not that there's something wrong with their message. No. It's because the Councils of Hippo and Carthage weighted the already existing books and letters believed to have been divinely inspired, against a strict set of criteria, namely: 1. Apostolic Origin - attributed to and/or based on the preaching/teaching of the first-generation apostles (or their closest companions). 2. Universal Acceptance - acknowledged by all major Christian communities in the Mediterranean world (by the end of the fourth century). 3. Liturgical Use - read publicly along with the OT when early Christians gathered for the Lord's Supper (their weekly worship services). 4. Consistent Message - containing theological ideas compatible with other accepted Christian writings (incl. the divinity and humanity Jesus). Do you know that Martin Luther removed some parts of the Scripture that have always been in the bible? For example, he included the deuterocanonicals in his first German translation. They can also be found in the first King James Version (1611) and in the first Bible ever printed, the Guttenberg Bible in 1450s. In fact, these books were included in almost every Bible until the Edinburgh Committee of the British Foreign Bible Society removed them in 1825. this is the common lie with your cult group. So the Roman catholic church wrote the bible? The bible that even Daniel read!Yet another ignorant blubbering. May you receive sense to be able to understand. Oga, Scripture is the content of God's word and the Bible is the source that contains it. Therefore, the Bible is a work of Scripture, and not vice versa. Even the Bible itself mentions many other works of scripture that it does not contain. So yes, the Church has existed before the gospels were written and the bible compiled.
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Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by 9inches(m): 5:47am On Apr 19, 2018 |
brocab:Right, you're not interested. Stop misquoting the scripture out of ignorance. Fear God, go and learn the Word of God my friend. |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by 9inches(m): 6:06am On Apr 19, 2018 |
brocab:I don't think so. You don't have answer me; answer it for yourself. That's even better. I believe Christ is the head of the Church-but He is not the head of your Church onlyThere is no more than one church my friend. Accept the truth and live. "I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one" (John 17:22). That was Jesus talking to His Father in Heaven. "...and on this rock I will build My church" (Matt 16:18). The Lord purchased the church "with his own blood" (Acts 20:28). Christ is "the head of the body, the church" (Colossians 1:18). "And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all" (Ephesians 1:22-23). Stop hardening your heart to the Word of God, the traditions of the Apostles and the early Christians. Abandon your Martin Luther's tradition. “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts, as you did in the rebellion" (Hebrews 3:15). I believe there are true believers, that preaches Christ inside the Catholic ChurchGreat! Amen! I believe you need to repent, and cry out unto the Lord, and ask Him to forgive you.Sure, I always do that. I believe the Lord's calling you-but the desires of your heart, had blinded you.hmm.. I greet you oga prophet. ![]() I believe you have time-seek and you will find, knock and it will be open, ask, and it will be given, say's the Lord..Amen. We all do. |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 11:54am On Apr 19, 2018 |
Don't casts your peals before swine, Lizzie keep on lying-you will keep on dying. 9inches: |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by Jpierre: 12:14pm On Apr 19, 2018 |
I have searched ryt round, finding a Catholic single lady is very hard now in Nigeria they are all taken or forming taken. |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 12:19pm On Apr 19, 2018 |
Just like you-I need to be dumbfounded-I need to be a lost cause, I need my head red-I need to cast my peals before swine, I need to follow tradition, I need to be saved in the Catholic Church, I need to walk away from God-I need to bow down before statues of Mary, I need to pray to dead saint's, I need to accept I am not reading bible truth. And what tops it off, I need to be friends with Lizzie. I say it again-I am not interested about 9 inches bragging about Lizzie, or visa versa, Lizzie bragging about 9 inches. 9inches: |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by Ubenedictus(m): 7:49pm On Apr 19, 2018 |
9inches:lol just liked her channel 1 Like |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 10:54pm On Apr 19, 2018 |
If you really like Lizzie then prove it by praying for her' to bring her back to Christ! Leaving God' behind to follow after another , isn't her best choice! She left the Church to become a sun worshipper, bowing down to other god's-hail Mary Mother of God. "Yes we all like Lizzie..She needs to be saved, and come into the knowledge of Christ, knowledge comes from the Word of God. {Proverbs 2: 5-7} Then you will discern the fear of the LORD And discover the knowledge of God. For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding. He stores up sound wisdom for the upright; He is a shield to those who walk in integrity,… {Proverbs 19:1} Better is a poor man who walks in his integrity Than he who is perverse in speech and is a fool. Ubenedictus: |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 12:16am On Apr 20, 2018 |
Do you really believe hating someone with a passion will draw you closer to God? "Hail Mother of God I repent, Holy Mother forgive me, I don't think so-you are a lost soul-trying to work your way into heaven-you believe there is one God, good, even the demons believe and tremble.{James 2:19} 9inches:Lizzie's new way of Praying "Hail Mother of God I repent, do you actually believe a priest have the same authority, as Jesus, He is the only one who can forgive sins. Do you believe praying Holy Mother forgive me, for I have sinned against you-and your Church-will wash your sins away-you had left God for this, I pray-Mother of God, my Mediator between myself and God, for I am your servant, Holy Mary Mother of God I bow down to thee. Lizzie you claim to know the scriptures, but do you honestly believe repenting to your priest is repenting to God: at the same time, You had left God for this-your new method of praying is only traditional hogwash created by Catholic's that still practice pagan religion, Catholic's that worships Lucifer under Oath. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1VyVQQdaDQ 9inches: |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by 9inches(m): 2:19am On Apr 20, 2018 |
brocab:Stop trying to pivot. No one is asking you to befriend Lizzie. Go and learn the truth, stop living in denial. Learn your bible, stop reading it like a novel. |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by 9inches(m): 2:44am On Apr 20, 2018 |
Ubenedictus:She has come a long way to her conversion this Easter. Great asset for Catholic apologetics. |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by 9inches(m): 2:50am On Apr 20, 2018 |
brocab:Just hear yourself out ranting as if a young lady beat you up. Go and learn the Word of God. You are wasting your learning time here. |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 1:02pm On Apr 20, 2018 |
A young lady beating me up-that young lady is beating you up-My learning time is interesting, Lucifer sits in the Vatican, while Pope Francis sits on his left, listen I know, its killing you, to hear the truth, but don't worry there's more.. 9inches: |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 1:32pm On Apr 20, 2018 |
Since you believe you are the master bible reader-then you should answer questions with ease. {John 19:26-27} When Jesus saw His mother and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Woman, here is your son.” Then He said to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” So from that hour, this disciple took her into his home.… Now we know Jesus was talking to John, and as you believe you are the master bible reader-then you should be able to answer-where in scripture does it say, behold John bow down to your Mother, and Mother stand as Queen above John? Second question master reader, where in scripture did Jesus command Peter, Paul the apostles with her children to bow down before Mary while she lived? We already know what your answer is; the apostles taught this through tradition before the bible was written.. 9inches: |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by Nobody: 10:42pm On Apr 21, 2018 |
[quote author=9inches post=66836039]Paul didn't receive authorisation from men for his ministry, he was specifically called by the holy ghost. The church can choose but that of God superceeds it. Laying of hands was used to impart gift needed for services the authorisation comes from God. So tell me who lay hands on peter? John or the apostles? For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands (2 Timothy 1:6).It was not only the apostles that receive the spirit Mary the mother of Jesus for example also received the holy spirit. Laying of hands was not a rule in itself there were many who received the spirit without the Apostles laying hands on them. The Church is God's household and the pillar and foundation of truth. The fact that we don’t have any writings from Jesus, or that he didn’t hand-write the Bible on his own is not a big problem for Catholics. While the Bible is essential, it is not the only means of transmitting the Faith from one generation to the next. For this, Jesus established his Church, which Apostle Paul calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim 3:15). This is why Jesus chose his disciples and groomed them. They would be the method of transmissionread very well I didn't ask u what is the church but WHO are the church? The bible is not just a means but it is the inspiration of God. You cant compare the direct source from here say. Catholism is a cult, the reason ur church cannot stand the bible alone is because it exposes it. All psedochristian organization has this same this attribute. ] We know this because the scripture came from the Church. It was members of the Body of Christ (the Church) that wrote the scripture (NT); their followers down the line through generations compiled the books and decided which written text makes up the bible and which text does not. So, without the Church you would not have had the bible you have now; at best, you might have a tiny portion of it. And of course, the authors wrote more or less a summary of what they already preached orally.. @ church scriptures didn't come from the church. With or without people we would still have the scriptures. The Jews gave you the old testament which Jesus and the apostles used doesn't mean whatever they do or say is correct . The bible is self evident that any book not part of it would be exposed. It wasn't men that gave me the scriptures but God. God's invisible hands protected and preserves it. your members are ignorant of scriptural truth including you. If they knew they would quit roman catholism and seek God. Of course ur cult wouldn't have it so, so they blind your eyes. There is nothing like mother church! Do just make empty assertions back it up from the bible. Tell me you did not intentionally edit my comment. I said "the Gospel was preached not read to the early Christians. Yes, the apostles only wrote out of necessity. For example,the writers of the bible wrote as the holy spirit moved them. The holy spirit had a mission and that is to create the bible. "Jesus didn't need to give them a book", not because they already have the Old Testament (that would not be enough. The OT is not Gospel); nor because the holy ghost will write more for them (the Holy Spirit, just like Jesus himself did not write anything)... Jesus didn't need to give them a book because Jesus had already prepared them and commanded them to go and preach the Gospel. There was no command from Jesus to write the Gospel. What's important is to preach the Gospel whether written or unwritten.There was no command to write the scripture need did solomon or David receive a command to write. Why would Jesus do that? It is the job of the holy Spirit 2 Timothy 3:16 is not the point of argument here. The argument was (is) bordered on "Church vs Scripture". I was asked who would know about God if there is no bible, and my reply was the group of people who received the oral teachings of the apostles and passed it down from generation to generation. These group of people know everything in the bible and more!the scripture predates the church, the scripture has always been the sole means of determining truth. Jesus upheld so, the apostles also. So who is roman catholic church to want to override it. Those books you claimed were inspired why didn't Jesus or the apostles mention it. When compared with the ones Jesus read was it in agreement? The prophecy in those books does it relates to Jesus? Jesus said all scripture bear witness of him? These and many more would determine if it was inspired or not otherwise it is an apocryphal. 1 Like |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by 9inches(m): 2:01am On Apr 24, 2018 |
brocab:Lol. Are you making an argument? |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by 9inches(m): 2:07am On Apr 24, 2018 |
brocab:where in scripture does it say, behold John do not bow down to your Mother, and Mother do not stand as Queen above John? Second question master interpreter, where in scripture did Jesus command Peter, Paul the apostles with her children to not bow down before Mary while she lived? We don't know what your answer is, so maybe you can answer that? |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by 9inches(m): 5:33am On Apr 24, 2018 |
solite3:False! Jesus called Paul, not the Holy Ghost (Acts 9:5). And even though he was called or chosen by God, he has to be commissioned for the job he is to perform. Laying of hands did not start during the times of the apostles, it has been the customary Jewish way of designating persons for a task and invoking upon them the divine blessing and power to perform it since the Old Testament times. With the laying of hands a man, whether he is ordained a deacon, priest, or bishop, inherits 2000 years of incredible Christian heritage and the awesome responsibility of being a public voice of the Church and a custodian of the Gospel of Jesus Christ through Word and Sacrament. You now agree that laying of hands imparts the gift needed for one to be able to officially perform one's calling; that people are called for different purposes or vocations in the church, which means that the laying of hands imparts different gifts for different vocations or callings; and that without such gift, one cannot officially perform his calling in the church. That's my whole point! During laying on of hands, the Church’s authority, given to her by Jesus Christ, is passed on, and the ability to validly perform one's role is given. NB: It is so important to understand that the Holy Spirit comes to us in many ways over our lives - from prayer, when we ask for faith or conversion, in baptism when we are united to the one Body of Christ (the Church), and of course in the laying on of hands for vocational callings. Acts 8:4-24 We see from this passage that this authority to convey the Holy Spirit to converts by the laying on of hands is not granted to everyone. Despite being a deacon, Philip did not have it that is why the Apostles (Peter and John) had to come down from Jerusalem. This act of the Apostles, to go out and confirm what Phillip has done shows that, even at the very early stages of the Church, there was authority and hierarchy. We see from this passage that after one is baptized, one must also be Confirmed/commissioned. One must also have hands laid on them by someone with authority to do so, by an Apostle. In our modern times this must be done by the successor of an Apostle - a Bishop. Did you notice anything? The people baptized by Phillip did not receive the Holy Spirit until Peter and John arrived from Jerusalem (Acts 8:16). "And then Peter and John laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit" (Acts 8:17). But wait! These are converts; didn’t they get the Holy Spirit when they converted? Wasn’t it the Holy Spirit that caused their conversion in the first place? Notice, there is nothing here about the converts saying the "Sinner’s Prayer" and being saved once or always, by their faith alone. But we surely know that Baptism conveys the Holy Spirit for we saw it descend upon Jesus at his baptism, we heard Peter preach "baptism now saves you" (1 Peter 3:21), and we know Christ would not command baptism if it was a meaningless ineffectual ritual. So we can be very confident to say that these Samarian converts received the Holy Spirit at least twice already (at their conversion and baptism). However, the passage tells us that the Holy Spirit is then conveyed to the converts by Apostles by the laying on of hands. We also know that Peter received the Holy Spirit when he was baptized, and again when Jesus gave him the power to forgive sins, and again at Pentecost. Mary received the Holy Spirit at the Incarnation, and again at Pentecost. It is a good and holy thing to have the Holy Spirit come into our lives as often as we can. But when you talk about laying of hands, then the Holy Spirit through someone with authority grants the receiver special gift for such role or vocation. You can also see how Simon Magus the sorcerer (Acts 8:9-24), who was baptized by Phillip after believing the Word of God from Phillip, tried to purchase this power of the Holy Spirit from Apostles Peter and John. They of course refuse him. Pay attention here: the fact that Simon seeks to purchase this power even after his baptism shows the special this power/authority of laying hands can only be granted by the Apostles, and that they could pass it on to whomever they chose to.[/quote] |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by 9inches(m): 6:15am On Apr 24, 2018 |
solite3:Who are the Church We the Gentiles who are now fellow citizens with the holy ones (Israelites, God's special people [Deut 7:6, Deut 14:2, Rom 9:4]) and members of the household of God (angels [Hebrews 12:22-23]) are the different members of the Body of Christ - the Church [Col 1:24, 1 Cor 12:27-28, Rom 12:4-5]; the Apostles and the prophets are the foundation (Rev 21:14); Christ is the Head, or Cornerstone (or foundation stone or keystone) [Isaiah 28:16]. Key Points (Ephesians 23-32) The church is Christ's bride. (Ephesians 4:15) "Rather, living the truth in love, we should grow in every way into him who is the head (of the church), Christ, from whom the whole body (the church), joined and held together by every supporting ligament (different gifts and functions), with the proper functioning of each part, brings about the body’s (church's) growth and builds itself up in love. Just so you understand it easier, the church already existed and have been teaching by oral tradition before the New Testament was written, not the other way round. The church through the apostles produced the NT scripture as part of her role in evangelization. The protestant mantra is to take the product of the church (NT) while disregarding and discrediting the church whose product they use. If the church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15), how then can someone or group of people exist outside the church and still claim to teach the truth? How absurd! I am not arguing the inspiration of the bible. The argument is whether what the apostles wrote (NT scripture) and what they preached orally (oral tradition) carry the same weight. Maybe it hasn't crossed your mind that even the NT scripture was oral tradition (most of which has been taught orally by the apostles) before it was written down to become NT scripture. Therefore, the NT is a product of the oral tradition which protestants think they can do away with and still teach the truth. @ church scriptures didn't come from the church. With or without people we would still have the scriptures.Men sat around the table, argued among themselves endlessly and fought, to give you what you call bible today. It's different from the argument of God's inspiration of the scripture. The bible you posses now came from an earthly authority which represents God. Only in islam you can peddle such belief that a text came directly from God. How can you pick up the bible which the successors of the apostles collected, sorted and canonized; and run with it without considering the successors of the apostles who collected, sorted and canonized it. Tell me, how can you claim a more accurate knowledge of that bible than those successors of the apostles? Christ himself is the truth, and that Christ being the foundation stone (cornerstone, keystone) of the church (Ephesians 2:20), that makes the church the foundation of truth (1 Tim 1:15). It essentially means you can't find truth outside the church. Now, do you still wonder why there are over 33,000 denominations who are struggling with truth. Can you unabashedly say Christ recognizes these 33,000 churches? Can you say they are all one church, one Body with Christ as the Head? Think! Again, the foundation of the church is the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone (foundation stone). The cornerstone (or foundation stone or setting stone) is the first stone set in the construction of a masonry foundation, important since all other stones will be set in reference to this stone, thus determining the position of the entire structure - Wikipedia. John 6:61 - "Does this shock you": https://www.catholic.com/index.php/magazine/print-edition/the-pillar-of-truth your members are ignorant of scriptural truth including you. If they knew they would quit roman catholism and seek God. Of course ur cult wouldn't have it so, so they blind your eyes.@bolded, simple research would have saved you this embarrassment you just caused yourself. Now I have quoted you and it stays here till internet eternity! The Church is considered to be a mother to its members because it is the Bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:21-33, Revelation 19:7, Galatians 4:26). Apostle Paul sees it for what it is - the Bride of Christ, the Mother from whose womb of grace each of us was born to a new life a life of Sonship. "I wanted you to know, how people ought to behave in God's family that is, in the Church of the living God, which holds the truth and keeps it safe" (I Tim. 3:15). So Yes, holy Mother Church proclaims, declares, explains and keeps the truth safe from the reach of the Enemy. Keep reveling in your naivety and arrogance, attacking the Body of Christ,the pillar and foundation of truth; don't go and read church history from Christ to when you got your bible. the writers of the bible wrote as the holy spirit moved them. The holy spirit had a mission and that is to create the bible. There was no command to write the scripture need did solomon or David receive a command to write. Why would Jesus do that? It is the job of the holy Spirit.@bolded, "Do [you] just make empty assertions, back it up from the bible." the scripture predates the church, the scripture has always been the sole means of determining truth. Jesus upheld so, the apostles also. So who is roman catholic church to want to override it.The Old testament scripture predates the church, while the church predates the New Testament scripture. However, Paul enjoined the Thessalonians to "stand firm and hold fast to the teachings" that were passed on to them, whether by letter (scripture) or by word of mouth (orally transmitted). See what you and your fellow protestants are missing? He emphasized on the oral tradition because that was the modus operandi of preaching the gospel (not OT). The scripture they had was the OT, hence the need to hold on to the oral teachings in combination with the scripture. Jesus read only the Old Testament scripture; He and His disciples taught the New testament even before the first book of the testament was written by one of the apostles many years of oral teaching after his death. Again, my explanation was very clear: 9inches: |
Re: Pentecostal Getting Married To A Catholic by brocab: 6:43am On Apr 24, 2018 |
It's killing you! Because you know what you preach doesn't exist.. 9inches: |
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