9inches:
Lol. Are you making an argument?

brocab:
It's killing you! Because you know what you preach doesn't exist..

brocab:
We know you stay with us, because you are finely learning the truth. Stick around, because the truth will set you free, Christ had led you here for a purpose, don't fight it, enjoy it, everyone learns, and everyone benefits.

9inches:
I'm glad you're learning. Keep at it.

I just finished going through all your comments so far and I can see how much light I have shown on the Luther lies and how much you have shifted in your belief of Luther. Keep working on it and pray with sincere heart. You would only damage your conscience by telling yourself what you believe is not bad when you have admitted to some extent how wrong your belief is.

9inches:
I hope you are still researching what I have exposed you to. Don't give up. I know it's hitting you like a thunderbolt; that'swhat truth does, especially when you have been living Luther's lie all your life. Be courageous, tell yourself the truth instead of posturing and deceiving yourself. You can never go back to your ignorance because I have exposed you to the light. If you do not keep walking towards the truth I have pushed you to, I doubt you would feel as comfortable. Be courageous! May God be with you.

brocab:
I am happy we are both learning! And I am happy for you, Just sometimes you do make sense-most times you don't-but this is part of learning, I have never heard anybody such as yourself so focus on Martin Luther, is their a hate book written in the Catholic Church somewhere? Is my name written in it too?

brocab:
No the stuff you have given me to search is boring, I didn't learn anything positive, and I found none of it lines up with the Word of God, it's more focus on story telling-just theories, I found the hand doesn't know what the fingers are doing, I found the Catholic Church claims to be universal, universal could mean everybody in one Church combined.
But the problem with my search is, I found that the universal Church had separated themselves from other individuals in the same Church.
Most Catholic's believe bowing down to statues, helps them to believe the spirit in those statue's are watching over them-most believe as long as they have a statue of a saint or baby Jesus or Mary or a crucifix cross, God's is looking after them.
While others say they don't bow down nor kiss the feet of these stone images, like others do.
I then read, most Catholic's don't even know the bible, let alone reading it, most say the bible is not convincing enough, most Catholic's go to Church because of a family tradition, or others wait until Easter, Christmas or special holiday's each year.
Most believe as long as they believe they had a good life-and they asked a priest to forgive their sins, they have a ticket into Heaven.
Many claim they were saved through infant baptism, many say they were saved by a savour, but others haven't the slightest idea who saved them, many say" my savour-but never say the savour.
So as I read through these sites you have given me, I find this-who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. {Which is the Word of God}
And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.
It seems the Catholic Church is loosing it's flavor-the Church that continual's to separated inside the house of God is a Church without a backbone without a leg to stand on, is a house without a solid foundation a house that's built on sand:

9inches:

Like I said, it's okay to get information (criticisms) from non authentic Catholic websites and sources, but make sure you get the real Catholic teaching from Catholic sources.

9inches:
Pick any topic, let's say "Catholics worship idols" for example.

9inches:
No there's no hate book written in the Catholic Church. Infact, the Catholic Church always refers to other churches as our "separated brethren" because Christ died for everyone. I already told you not to take my word for it; do your own research on the truth and be sincere to your conscience so when you find what is true,you don't reject it out of pride or arrogance. If someone is lying to you, he would never want you to investigate what he was telling you.

Pick any topic, let's say "Catholics worship idols" for example. Look for the pentecostal teaching on that, and then check Catholic teaching from authentic Catholic website,and compare using your brain and conscience. Good luck!

brocab:
So the sites you have given me, are not real sites..
And my search is a waste of time-and of course I didn't learn anything positive, because the universal Church is divided-the fingers don't connect to the hand, and the hand is not connected to the forearm.
This must be the many reasons why the Catholic Church is calling for Martin Lutherings to return, because the universal Church is divided against each other.
As I read through these sites you have given me, these same sites you are now rejecting, is full of story telling people confused, having built their life foundation on tradition, rather then built their house on the rock. {Which is the Word of God}
And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.
It seems the Catholic Church is loosing it's flavor-the Church that continual's to separated inside the house of God is a Church without a backbone, it's a house divided against each other, it's a house without solid ground, it's a house that's built in the flesh, without the Spirit..

brocab:
Then why all the insults about Martin Luther-by you, if you believe the Catholic Church haven't a hate book, then you must have a hate book written on your heart..

The only good luck I receive about this matter is, that most Catholic's believe bowing down to statues, helps them to believe the spirits in those statue's are watching over them-most believe as long as they have a statue of a saint. a baby Jesus or Mother Mary or a crucifix cross, it's spirit is looking after them.
Do you even believe in the spirit realm-demons come and go-through open doors, and what a prefect way-is through statues-Satan come in as the spirit of light..
3 children of Patmos, told their story of Mary standing above them-telling a story such as this, they mentioned the 3 would have long lives, 2 died earlier then they predicted fell short-one finished her days inside the Catholic Church, she became a saint after she died according to the Catholic tradition-this story would feed a family for as long as it takes, One child seen a light, the other heard a voice, and the other saw nothing, this was the great deception, this story took the believers by surprise, witnesses claim, they saw something-either a bright light or coloured lights spinning around them, this was a UFO sighting, which again the Catholic Church had taken all the credit for it, to raise more money.

9inches:
Telling truth about Martin Luther is not insult.

Again, use Catholic sources because you keep mis-characterizing what the catholic church teaches. It only keeps you arguing against your own argument because you are not arguing the opposing argument of the other person.

9inches:
The sites are real. You click, it opens; you search for any information you need. If the topic you are looking for is not there, tell me and I will give you more sources.

9inches:
Telling truth about Martin Luther is not insult.

Again, use Catholic sources because you keep mis-characterizing what the catholic church teaches. It only keeps you arguing against your own argument because you are not arguing the opposing argument of the other person.

Octaves:
going through some of your exchanges with brocab. I applaud your persistence but its no use trying to pull an unwilling person out of a ditch. they will always stick to the limited information they've been indoctrinated with. even the Bible they are thumping about, they don't even know well. I'd advise you let the argument rest. if he wants to continue living in the Luther lies, let him continue

quote author=9inches post=66976550]
Who are the Church
We the Gentiles who are now fellow citizens with the holy ones (Israelites, God's special people [Deut 7:6, Deut 14:2, Rom 9:4])
and members of the household of God (angels [Hebrews 12:22-23])
are the different members of the Body of Christ - the Church [Col 1:24, 1 Cor 12:27-28, Rom 12:4-5];
the Apostles and the prophets are the foundation (Rev 21:14);
Christ is the Head, or Cornerstone (or foundation stone or keystone) [Isaiah 28:16].

Key Points
(Ephesians 23-32) The church is Christ's bride.
(Ephesians 4:15) "Rather, living the truth in love, we should grow in every way into him who is the head (of the church), Christ, from whom the whole body (the church), joined and held together by every supporting ligament (different gifts and functions), with the proper functioning of each part, brings about the body’s (church's) growth and builds itself up in love.

Just so you understand it easier, the church already existed and have been teaching by oral tradition before the New Testament was written, not the other way round. The church through the apostles produced the NT scripture as part of her role in evangelization. The protestant mantra is to take the product of the church (NT) while disregarding and discrediting the church whose product they use. If the church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15), how then can someone or group of people exist outside the church and still claim to teach the truth? How absurd!

I am not arguing the inspiration of the bible. The argument is whether what the apostles wrote (NT scripture) and what they preached orally (oral tradition) carry the same weight. Maybe it hasn't crossed your mind that even the NT scripture was oral tradition (most of which has been taught orally by the apostles) before it was written down to become NT scripture. Therefore, the NT is a product of the oral tradition which protestants think they can do away with and still teach the truth.

Men sat around the table, argued among themselves endlessly and fought, to give you what you call bible today. It's different from the argument of God's inspiration of the scripture. The bible you posses now came from an earthly authority which represents God. Only in islam you can peddle such belief that a text came directly from God.

How can you pick up the bible which the successors of the apostles collected, sorted and canonized; and run with it without considering the successors of the apostles who collected, sorted and canonized it. Tell me, how can you claim a more accurate knowledge of that bible than those successors of the apostles?

Christ himself is the truth, and that Christ being the foundation stone (cornerstone, keystone) of the church (Ephesians 2:20), that makes the church the foundation of truth (1 Tim 1:15). It essentially means you can't find truth outside the church. Now, do you still wonder why there are over 33,000 denominations who are struggling with truth. Can you unabashedly say Christ recognizes these 33,000 churches? Can you say they are all one church, one Body with Christ as the Head? Think!

Again, the foundation of the church is the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone (foundation stone).

The cornerstone (or foundation stone or setting stone) is the first stone set in the construction of a masonry foundation, important since all other stones will be set in reference to this stone, thus determining the position of the entire structure - Wikipedia.

John 6:61 - "Does this shock you": https://www.catholic.com/index.php/magazine/print-edition/the-pillar-of-truth

@bolded, simple research would have saved you this embarrassment you just caused yourself. Now I have quoted you and it stays here till internet eternity! The Church is considered to be a mother to its members because it is the Bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:21-33, Revelation 19:7, Galatians 4:26). Apostle Paul sees it for what it is - the Bride of Christ, the Mother from whose womb of grace each of us was born to a new life a life of Sonship. "I wanted you to know, how people ought to behave in God's family that is, in the Church of the living God, which holds the truth and keeps it safe" (I Tim. 3:15). So Yes, holy Mother Church proclaims, declares, explains and keeps the truth safe from the reach of the Enemy.
Keep reveling in your naivety and arrogance, attacking the Body of Christ,the pillar and foundation of truth; don't go and read church history from Christ to when you got your bible.

@bolded, "Do [you] just make empty assertions, back it up from the bible."

The Old testament scripture predates the church, while the church predates the New Testament scripture. However, Paul enjoined the Thessalonians to "stand firm and hold fast to the teachings" that were passed on to them, whether by letter (scripture) or by word of mouth (orally transmitted). See what you and your fellow protestants are missing? He emphasized on the oral tradition because that was the modus operandi of preaching the gospel (not OT). The scripture they had was the OT, hence the need to hold on to the oral teachings in combination with the scripture.

Jesus read only the Old Testament scripture; He and His disciples taught the New testament even before the first book of the testament was written by one of the apostles many years of oral teaching after his death.

Again, my explanation was very clear:

brocab:
Telling your truth, is not always the best move-personally Martin Luther done nothing to you, the story of Martin Luther came directly from Catholic Tradition, 'books, but still he is a brother in Christ-If tradition told me to judge your mother by a book cover, would it be an insult to believe everything I was told by it, or would I end up being a gossip and busybody causing fiction about your mother among the Christians.
Baby Christians are people who never seem to move on, because they stay focus on the gossip, "Think" is it better to forgive then forget-and move on to our next chapter in life: Martin Luther is old news! How many old past Popes' priest that committed crimes against humanity, how about sexual crimes, and still the Catholic Church keeps them under guard in coffins laying in the Vatican under lock and key, and still they are classed as saints.
I didn't come on this forum to argue from other sites-I came here to witness-if you have a problem with that, and you prefer me to leave, well my answer, is, like this: If you don't like it, move on, and find somewhat truth elsewhere" I came here to write the truth, everything I write in scripture is bible truth, it's either you accept it, or just get a life elsewhere, and allow someone else to come along and find it in their hearts to study bible truth..
Always remember we aren't all the same, and you will come up against bible believers, such as I, traditions were made to keep the Church stable, every Church have rules and regulations, traditions is what Paul taught to the Church-And because you actually believe I don't know Christ, because I don't follow your traditions; "Think" before casting the first stone-to be truthful, your messages are damaging no-one is into religious tradition, tradition can not save us, like you believe, "There's only one savour and that's Christ..

brocab:
I will give you the best source to focus yourself on, it's called the bible, maybe you should be focusing more about Christ who can save you, then traditions that can't save you.

solite3:
The body of Christ do not include angels and old testament saint. Its not surprising you do not know what the church

solite3:
read very well I didn't ask u what is the church but WHO are the church?

The bible is not just a means but it is the inspiration of God. You cant compare the direct source from here say.

Catholism is a cult, the reason ur church cannot stand the bible alone is because it exposes it. All psedochristian organization has this same this attribute.

@ church scriptures didn't come from the church. With or without people we would still have the scriptures.
The Jews gave you the old testament which Jesus and the apostles used doesn't mean whatever they do or say is correct .
The bible is self evident that any book not part of it would be exposed.

It wasn't men that gave me the scriptures but God. God's invisible hands protected and preserves it.

your members are ignorant of scriptural truth including you. If they knew they would quit roman catholism and seek God. Of course ur cult wouldn't have it so, so they blind your eyes.
There is nothing like mother church! Do just make empty assertions back it up from the bible.

the writers of the bible wrote as the holy spirit moved them. The holy spirit had a mission and that is to create the bible. There was no command to write the scripture need did solomon or David receive a command to write. Why would Jesus do that? It is the job of the holy Spirit.

the scripture predates the church, the scripture has always been the sole means of determining truth. Jesus upheld so, the apostles also. So who is roman catholic church to want to override it.
Those books you claimed were inspired why didn't Jesus or the apostles mention it.
When compared with the ones Jesus read was it in agreement? The prophecy in those books does it relates to Jesus? Jesus said all scripture bear witness of him? These and many more would determine if it was inspired or not otherwise it is an apocryphal.

9inches:
All of these people, given the title as “prophet” or “prophetess” in the Bible were no doubt-inspired by God, but their material was not canonized. Not that there's something wrong with their message. No. It's because the Councils of Hippo and Carthage weighted the already existing books and letters believed to have been divinely inspired, against a strict set of criteria.

9inches:

I have read more than the bible, so I understand the bible better. Keep checking the sites I showed you so you can continue to unlearn the lies you have been living.

9inches:

You are not a bible believer because you do not understand the bible. It's like a primary school dropout reading Applied Mechanics textbook; there's no way for him to understand it since nobody taught him through it. That's the predicament protestants are into. It would serve you best if you learn the bible the proper and and most accurate way - learning from the masters (the people who learnt from the Apostles).

brocab:
Of course you do-you are better than the rest of us who daily studies our bibles. We can't forget you are Catholic, and Catholic's claim to know God without the Spirit of the Lord...

brocab:
And again, no-one knows God more then you, no-one knows the bible neither, only the Catholic's know the in's and out's about Christ..
The only way to know Christ is through Church Catholic tradition.

No-one is like the Catholic's who claim to know everything there is to know about Christ-tradition tells us to pray through the rosaries, tradition tells us to follow Mary and the saint's, tradition tells us to bow and kiss the feet of statues, tradition tells us Mary is our mediator. Catholic tradition tells us Paul preached tradition of the above.
Not even the bible can agree with the above traditions according to scripture.
The Born again bible study believers don't know Christ-not like the Catholic's do through tradition..
And you expect the world to believe you, tradition sin had also caused priest to molest Children, traditions that isn't found anywhere in the bible are worldly traditions.
To be honest if we were to follow Catholic traditions, no-one, I repeat, no-one would go into heaven to be with the Lord.

9inches:
Thanks for patronizing but that's not my claim nor that of the church.

Those are not called traditions. They are called doctrines. Now you see why I keep telling you how ignorant it is to mis-characterize argument you don't fully understand. I hope you use this opportunity to go read up on doctrines, dogmas, sacred traditions and sacred scriptures.

9inches:
You are a liar. Catholics don't claim that. We claim that the Holy Spirit is well alive in the Church and that Christ is the head of the church. Everything outside the church is man made.

brocab:
If you really like Lizzie then prove it by praying for her' to bring her back to Christ! Leaving God' behind to follow after another , isn't her best choice! She left the Church to become a sun worshipper, bowing down to other god's-hail Mary Mother of God.
"Yes we all like Lizzie..She needs to be saved, and come into the knowledge of Christ, knowledge comes from the Word of God.
{Proverbs 2: 5-7} Then you will discern the fear of the LORD And discover the knowledge of God. For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding. He stores up sound wisdom for the upright; He is a shield to those who walk in integrity,…
{Proverbs 19:1} Better is a poor man who walks in his integrity Than he who is perverse in speech and is a fool.

brocab:
So Paul didn't teach tradition-everything I had written is now indoctrinated, in which bible are they indoctrinated-obviously it isn't written in the KJ's.
And obviously Catholic tradition and the bible are not the same-you are no different to the JW's, they also have there hidden agenda's in their bible, that they believe is true to them.
Someone gave the Catholic's authority to change the Word of God-some-one had added tradition, assuming Paul taught a tradition under the secret society act's, and now claiming it is indoctrinated? "Obviously it isn't written in the bible.
By the knowledge I have received from you-is that Paul and the disciples taught the Catholic Church these indoctrinated traditions, the Catholic's believe the information was given to the Catholic Church by God Himself, they believe keeping these traditions under lock and key away from the world, man will never destroy it.
Obviously the Catholic's have also put God in a closet, and still, the Catholic's, haven't any Idea where they can find God, remembering by my own experiences, I myself couldn't find God in the Catholic Church either.
The major difference between Bible-believing Christians and Catholics, is that Catholics believe whatever the priests tell them; but genuine, born-gain, Bible-believing Christians SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES-where the Catholic's fail to do.. {John 5:39}

9inches:
Thanks for patronizing but that's not my claim nor that of the church.

Those are not called traditions. They are called doctrines. Now you see why I keep telling you how ignorant it is to mis-characterize argument you don't fully understand. I hope you use this opportunity to go read up on doctrines, dogmas, sacred traditions and sacred scriptures.

brocab:
Now who's lying, you really don't know the bible-you really believe God is talking about the Catholic Church-and not the body of believers.
Still claiming everything outside the Catholic Church is man made-the Holy Spirit no longer ruins in temples made by man, He lives in temples built up by God...
God is the God of the living.
God ruins in the body of believers, Jesus calls His Church..This has nothing to do with a Catholic Church made of brick and mortar.

9inches:
Maybe it has everything to do with 33,000 different churches (bodies of Christ)?

Ubenedictus:


Lizzie is already saved, she has repented, she believes and has been baptized, now she has also received the apostolic faith and she is now in the church Christ established, worshipping the triune God in the communion of saints. In the Church building made of brick and mortar the catholic's believe Christ established:

she has knowledge of the truth, she has knowledge of Christ, the Way the Truth and the life and she has come to the church he established, " the Pillar and bulwark of truth ".


if you managed to watch her videos you would see she studies the scripture and also hold firmly to the tradition just as the Bible says.