Moneywomen17:
the family of the guy in contention oduduwa where he became king and died and was buried said he is from oke-Ora but u who probably just heard of him from online say he is some foolish lost Benin prince. A lot of people distort history according to ur own ogiamen family of bini he said ur oba is a Yoruba migrant the bini historian that most of u try to shamelessly say his mother is Yoruba also buttress a lot of the things yoruba say. Ooni seats on the stool of oduduwa not the bini man so how is Ooni his son when the Ooni is the legitimate ruler of the seat of his father why the bini king is just ruling another stool which is not oduduwa own. Ur oba of bini came to ife and he was shown where his ancestors were buried including the first oba oranmiyan. This is ife not bini. Anyway am done arguing

Nice one ! I am even a direct patrilineal descendant of Oranmiyan. We are here to shot up liars. We aren't from Igodomigodo. Proudly of my ancestor called as Odua or Odudua,the worshiper of Eledumare.

Wealthandjobs:

Call it nationwide tour so that you can have a good night sleep at night but this visit is different from any other "tour". Nowhere else will the Oba of Benin visit that he would be taken to where his biological ancestors are buried and told the story of his origin.
You are clearly not from the Benin Royal family and that's why you don't know how very important this visit is to the Benin Royal family.
The next time you want to argue or lie about the history of Benin,remember to make a distinction between the history of the Benin Royal family which is Yoruba and the history of the rest of you from Benin but not from the Benin Royal family.
God bless you

That guy na Edo, not Bini.

steveosaz:


You are just making a mockery of all you are trying to propose Stop confusing dates. What happened in Benin after Oranmiyan is not essentially disputed, what happened under the Ogiso dynasty is also not in contention. What you yorubas are dubiously trying to confuse yourselves with is what happened in the interregnum of the current line of kings and the Ogiso. Olokun, Ogun, ifa, no one disputes they were from I've including ogboni. However, while you jokers are unable to clearly state where Oduduwa came from, the Bini's can and have.

Tell all the lies you can, it doesn't change a thing about what we have achieved in the past.
Learn to streamline your arguments rather than beating around the bush.

Is there any prominent ruler or progenitor in Yoruba history, male or female, that has not been immortalized? None! That in itself is a record that serves as reference marker. Where is Ekaledharan in the list? No where.

Where is he in the Edo list of pantheons. Somewhere in La-La land....lost forever!

We need to put a MISSING PERSON notice out for Ekaladheran. Maybe Buhari will help us find him.

steveosaz:
Stop disgracing your tribe abeg!!!
Within the Nigeria of today, there is no single ethnic entity that has the number of enemies the Igbo have. At least Nnamdi KANU helped increase that number.
Hausa na una nemesis
Fulani, Igbo enemy.
Yoruba, Igbo enemy.
Efik, Igbo enemy
Ibibio, Igbo enemy.
Urhobo, Igbo enemy.
Itsekiri, Igbo enemy.
Edo, Igbo enemy.
Ijaw, Igbo enemy.

Even the Israel you jokers claim to come from, they did DNA analysis and confirmed that they have no similarities with you guys - REJECTED!!!

SOUTH AFRICA is doing xenophobia against you people.
INDONESIA is hanging you like chickens everyday for drugs.
CHINA has Igbo people in prison as if na football match una go watch there.

Even here in Nigeria, you still hate yourselves. Ozubulu massacre.

Meanwhile, you are internally displaced and wouldn't stay at home roaming all the corners of the country that's why you easily fall victim when crisis occurs.

The other day, Arewa youths gave you fools quit notice, your elders started begging up and down like fools.

Before that, Fashola deported so many of your back to you landlocked, crime infested region.

Again, the Oba of Lagos, Akiolu threatened that some of you would perish in the lagoon. - What a tribe!

All these things are happening to you and would continue happening to you because of the stupidity of your likes.

Don't be carried away by this game being played here by the Edos and yorubas. It has always been like this, but in reality, both groups remain friends.

But who can be a friend to greedy Igbo's?

The entire south east is an IDP camp. That's why you people still refer to Lagos as no mans land.

Nna, go sell market abeg. You lack common sense.

Chimo! Warris dis? See finishing at its peak. Ekpa, e don do! Pity am small.....you don reset that boy's brain too much!

Y0ruba:


1. Yes, you will find several texts on this on googlebooks. Many of the Ife works have been dated to 10th C while Bini have been mostly around 15th C. For Ife, look up Ade Obayemi’s works; for Benin, look up PC Lloyd & Bradbury’s works. For a somewhat comparative study, see Suzanne Preston Blier, Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c.1300

2. Early Yoruba scholars agreed that Ife was a foremost Yoruba kingdom/empire that controlled vast lands until Owu and Oyo emerged. Ife was known for its monarchy & trade. Frobenius recorded to have heard of Ife in as far as Mali when he wrote his work between 1910 & 1913. However, archeologists have unearthed Ife glass beads in Mali & modern day Burkina Faso. This politico-economic status of Ife influenced the expansionist actions of Ife princes & commoners in other towns where they led or played important political roles. Most Ife princes/commoners who went to other towns met peoples and socio-political structures on ground - for example there was Oloyo who founded Oyo whose position Oranmiyan assumed for a shortwhile to stabilize the kingdom, same thing he did in Bini. Ajero, Alara, Owa Obokun, Ogboru, Maye, Alaketu, Onipopo, Orangun & so on subsumed systems on ground. Oranmiyan did the same in Bini when he warred with a certain Bini group - if he was ‘invited’, how come he had difficulty ruling them? Have you also wondered why Ife was a major bead trading center (like Lagos is right now) and Bini use beads royally, something not produced in their domain?

I’ll go now.

Cheers and pardon typos.

Ife was the earliest Yoruba city as you said but Benin city was before Ife.
Please stop the bullshit about Oranmiyan founding Benin. Benin existed long before Oranmiyan came.

Nobody can say for certain if Benin went to ask Ife for a king or Oranmiyan as a descendant of Oduduwa/Izoduwa the exiled Benin prince came back to forcefully take back his fathers throne.

Does it matter if beads are produced locally in Ife or Lagos? Benin was very wealthy and advanced so can buy anything it needs from anywhere.
Early Europeans traded with African natives but it doesn’t mean the Africans were superior to the Europeans becos we produced pepper or spices.

Truth is Benin conquered and ruled Yoruba during when Benin was an empire.

Wealthandjobs:

If you are not from the Benin Royal family,then,sincerely this is not your business.It is the business of the Yoruba.
The Ooni is not having any ceremony or event yet the whole paraphernalia of office and the Oba of Benin whose office I hold in high esteem, went to dobale in Ile Ife says it all.
The Benin Royalty is Yoruba,that may not be true for the subjects of the Oba of Benin.
That's why it's only the heads of the departed Oba of Benin that is buried in Ile Ife.

The Yoruba story about Oduduwa is extremely thin on substance. What we have is wrapped largely in myths, parables, and folktales. In fact, the most generous way to describe the story is that the Yoruba do not know anything about their highly revered progenitor. Oduduwa himself left a tell tale evidence of his ancestry in his lifetime. He reserved a special seat in his palace for his ancestors, which only the Bini monarch can sit on even now. No other human, whether Arab, Eskimo, Alaafin, Ooni, or Yoruba, (bleached or not), can sit on the seat. Despite this vivid evidence that has survived through the centuries, some Yoruba historians still claim that he was from somewhere in Arabia."

davidnazee:


Ife was the earliest Yoruba city as you said but Benin city was before Ife.
Please stop the bullshit about Oranmiyan founding Benin. Benin existed long before Oranmiyan came.

Nobody can say for certain if Benin went to ask Ife for a king or Oranmiyan as a descendant of Oduduwa/Izoduwa the exiled Benin prince came back to forcefully take back his fathers throne.

Does it matter if beads are produced locally in Ife or Lagos? Benin was very wealthy and advanced so can buy anything it needs from anywhere.
Early Europeans traded with African natives but it doesn’t mean the Africans were superior to the Europeans becos we produced pepper or spices.

Truth is Benin conquered and ruled Yoruba during when Benin was an empire.

There is an Oranmiyan shrine, there is Oduduwa shrine, how come no one can find any shrine for this missing Ekaladheran/Izoduwa?

Wealthandjobs:

Call it nationwide tour so that you can have a good night sleep at night but this visit is different from any other "tour". Nowhere else will the Oba of Benin visit that he would be taken to where his biological ancestors are buried and told the story of his origin.
You are clearly not from the Benin Royal family and that's why you don't know how very important this visit is to the Benin Royal family.
The next time you want to argue or lie about the history of Benin,remember to make a distinction between the history of the Benin Royal family which is Yoruba and the history of the rest of you from Benin but not from the Benin Royal family.

God bless you

Ignorance is truly bliss. But what do we call deliberate ignorance?

You need to stop adjusting the goal post OK. Ooni the stranger is telling stories about post Oduduwa events. Meanwhile Oba is telling stories about pre Oduduwa events.

Oba is ooni's father and the Ooni knows that.
You can keep masturbating to your self indulging ignorance.

Oduduwa is and would always be Ekaladerhan, the banished Bini prince.

BabaRamota1980:


Is there any prominent ruler or progenitor in Yoruba history, male or female, that has not been immortalized? None! That in itself is a record that serves as reference marker. Where is Ekaledharan in the list? No where.

Where is he in the Edo list of pantheons. Somewhere in La-La land....lost forever!

We need to put a MISSING PERSON notice out for Ekaladheran. Maybe Buhari will help us find him.

Stop embarrassing yourself. What would Ekaladerhan be doing in a list of so called 'Yoruba kings' when you can't even spell the name?
For the mention, Izoduwa or Oduduwa or Ekaladerhan is not a yoruba person and cannot be found among your so called Yoruba kings.

However, he is well recognized in Bini folklore. You cannot tell a man his history better than the man himself.
The immediate past Oba of Benin, Erediauwa wrote his book titled 'I remain sir, your obedient servant' wherein he established these facts, put clarity to so many issues hitherto veiled in opacities.
He clearly and chronologically identified Bini kings from Ogiso Owodo to Ekaladerhan/Oduduwa to Oranmiyan to Eweka I to himself.

Just as it was when an Edo prince, Ado was made king over Lagos, that was how under similar circumstances Izoduwa was made ruler over Ife. The Oba still remains Ooni's father.

OlaoChi:
but who is in a better position to speak on oduduwa? His family in Ife or people who just heard about him in Bini?

Well nobody was there all we can do is gather the left over pieces of information and set them together

Bro, you can do better than that? Oduduwa family members in Ife? Even amongst the yorubas, such hogwash wouldn't sell. And when did some random, unknown dude become an authority in this subject? Anyway, that tells much about how you yorubas came up with all manner of conjectures and conjugation about Oduduwa and your history where both princes and slaves all put pen to paper and scribbling down fallacies, fantacies and outright lies all in the name of history telling. You can now see why you people have so many versions of Oduduwa's origin and are practically unable to streamline them. This is the latest addition to the stable. Una well-done oo. LooooL.

Y0ruba:


1. Yes, you will find several texts on this on googlebooks. Many of the Ife works have been dated to 10th C while Bini have been mostly around 15th C. For Ife, look up Ade Obayemi’s works; for Benin, look up PC Lloyd & Bradbury’s works. For a somewhat comparative study, see Suzanne Preston Blier, Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c.1300

2. Early Yoruba scholars agreed that Ife was a foremost Yoruba kingdom/empire that controlled vast lands until Owu and Oyo emerged. Ife was known for its monarchy & trade. Frobenius recorded to have heard of Ife in as far as Mali when he wrote his work between 1910 & 1913. However, archeologists have unearthed Ife glass beads in Mali & modern day Burkina Faso. This politico-economic status of Ife influenced the expansionist actions of Ife princes & commoners in other towns where they led or played important political roles. Most Ife princes/commoners who went to other towns met peoples and socio-political structures on ground - for example there was Oloyo who founded Oyo whose position Oranmiyan assumed for a shortwhile to stabilize the kingdom, same thing he did in Bini. Ajero, Alara, Owa Obokun, Ogboru, Maye, Alaketu, Onipopo, Orangun & so on subsumed systems on ground. Oranmiyan did the same in Bini when he warred with a certain Bini group - if he was ‘invited’, how come he had difficulty ruling them? Have you also wondered why Ife was a major bead trading center (like Lagos is right now) and Bini use beads royally, something not produced in their domain?

I’ll go now.

Cheers and pardon typos.

The question you should be asking is.....If Oronmiyan was a conqueror as you guys pictured him in Benin, why could he not stay to rule his conquered subjects.Why would he abandon his unborn child in the midst of his enemies and disappear never to return to Benin.




Also, i think you have heard of coral beads and how is it was in Benin. The beads we use here are not from Ife, those yoruba beads don't hold sway here...coral beads are what hold sway here and we got them from Europe. I don't know where you got the idea from that beads where not made here. The Obas of Benin made a strict policy to control beads and place high regard for coral beads above all hence any that seemed to counter coral beads where usually dealt with. Infact the bead control was even harder than the control for Leopard skin.

https://www.ogwacommunity.org/about-ogwa/

Y0ruba:


1. Yes, you will find several texts on this on googlebooks. Many of the Ife works have been dated to 10th C while Bini have been mostly around 15th C. For Ife, look up Ade Obayemi’s works; for Benin, look up PC Lloyd & Bradbury’s works. For a somewhat comparative study, see Suzanne Preston Blier, Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c.1300

2. Early Yoruba scholars agreed that Ife was a foremost Yoruba kingdom/empire that controlled vast lands until Owu and Oyo emerged. Ife was known for its monarchy & trade. Frobenius recorded to have heard of Ife in as far as Mali when he wrote his work between 1910 & 1913. However, archeologists have unearthed Ife glass beads in Mali & modern day Burkina Faso. This politico-economic status of Ife influenced the expansionist actions of Ife princes & commoners in other towns where they led or played important political roles. Most Ife princes/commoners who went to other towns met peoples and socio-political structures on ground - for example there was Oloyo who founded Oyo whose position Oranmiyan assumed for a shortwhile to stabilize the kingdom, same thing he did in Bini. Ajero, Alara, Owa Obokun, Ogboru, Maye, Alaketu, Onipopo, Orangun & so on subsumed systems on ground. Oranmiyan did the same in Bini when he warred with a certain Bini group - if he was ‘invited’, how come he had difficulty ruling them? Have you also wondered why Ife was a major bead trading center (like Lagos is right now) and Bini use beads royally, something not produced in their domain?

I’ll go now.

Cheers and pardon typos.

Ife’s significance is greatly underplayed then

I used to think the benin’s Birthed that civilization or it came from the Far East

But you have presented some interesting points

Thanks again

Moorish:


Ife’s significance is greatly underplayed then

I used to think the benin’s Birthed that civilization or it came from the Far East

But you have presented some interesting points

Thanks again

Exactly!

And this is the consequence of over ‘awo’. Everything is shrouded in mytsic powers and to tap into these information requires being a part of this and that which also places a limit on information one can share in the end after being initiated and taking oath not to speak under the pain of death. This has a bad effect on detailed history of Ife.

The Eluyemis, Fasogbons, Makinde & Historians/Archeologists of Ife origins had to initiate into several things in Ife from where they were able to access information which they put in black and white along with other sources as required.

So i have been seeing a particular picture of the supposed burial sites of all Benin kings. Well lets try and be logical here. Over here in the South, we all know that the burial site of kings are kept secret even from family members. Some princes don't even have any idea where it is. I remember an Oghara Prince telling us that his father coprse had been beheaded and he doesnt even know the burial site. He is not suppose to even know at all. This is among the Uhrobos of Delta state. If we are to go by the fact the Ooni say Oba Ado is his son, is it not a let down that he shows commoners the burial place of one of his greatest sons. How many Ife indigines know the burial sites of all dead Oonis? if the Ooni has a burial site for Oba Ado as been showed here, it means the Ooni should have similar site for the Aalafin of Oyo and his other sons. Can the Ooni show us these sites also? if these other sons of Oduduwa dont have burial sites in Ife, why does Oba Ado has? and if they do and we cant see them, why then can we see that of Oba Ado? Secrecy is one of the features of kingship and lots of it matters.

All dead Obas of Benin are buried here in Ogbe but no one knows the exact location. No Bini man can come out to tell you, they dont even know it. I will give you some exeptions to these rule
1. Oba Omonoyan (oronmiyan) He did not die in Benin,he died in the yorubalands where he was born.
2. Oba Ewuare the Great was bureid at his mother village at Esi near Udo. He requested this himself
3. Oba Ehengbuda, He died by drowning in the coastal waters of Lagos.
4. Oba Ovonramwen, he died and was buried in Calabar.

Speaking of Oba Ovonramwen, i have tried searching for pictures of his burial site or grave in calabar i have not really seen any. Maybe if i visit calabar i will have the opportunity of seeing it, but if there is none, i will be dissapointed because if the Efiks of Calabar that are far away can at least show courtsey in keeping the burial site of a king from distant kingdom secret, i wonder why a father would choose to change the burial site of one of his sons to a public spectacle.


Below is the picture of the Burial site of Queen Bilikisu Sungbo of Oke-eri in Ogun state. Compare this to the supposed burial site or resting place for Kings of the great benin kingdom who they rank as 3rd in the list of yoruba kings.


Now see the original picture of the supposed burial site of Kings of Benin before it was even painted. you have a drainage running through. see dirty everywhere....i consider this an insult and a stain to the name Benin.

odigbosky:





The question you should be asking is.....If Oronmiyan was a conqueror as you guys pictured him in Benin, why could he not stay to rule his conquered subjects.Why would he abandon his unborn child in the midst of his enemies and disappear never to return to Benin.




Also, i think you have heard of coral beads and how is it was in Benin. The beads we use here are not from Ife, those yoruba beads don't hold sway here...coral beads are what hold sway here and we got them from Europe [b][/b]I don't know where you got the idea from that beads where not made here. The Obas of Benin made a strict policy to control beads and place high regard for coral beads above all hence any that seemed to counter coral beads where usually dealt with. Infact the bead control was even harder than the control for Leopard skin.

https://www.ogwacommunity.org/about-ogwa/

1. The question should be, as I stated before, if Oranmiyan was indeed a son of an Ekhalederan and was invited, why then did he have to fight a group in Bini in order to be allowed to settle?

2. Also, if they indeed had a lost prince and knew Oranmiyan as his son - their son. How come he had problems ruling?

3. Deductions show that Oranmiyan was not invited and neither was there a lost prince. Bini had political crisis and he sought to cash in on it like he did in Oyo as a result of Oloyo’s political problems. Oranmiyan’s exploit in Bini was a failed Ife-expansionist agenda. The same exploits a number of Ife warrior-esque people tried see Maye & Sigbunsin in Ibadan, Derin Ologbenla at Oke Igbo & Ondo etc.

4. You have missed the whole point. Bead use in Bini royally did not start until around 15th century. Have you looked at Ife arts dated to as far back as 10th century and the heavy use of beads? This is a food for thought, take the time to eat it.

davidnazee:


Ife was the earliest Yoruba city as you said but Benin city was before Ife.
Please stop the bullshit about Oranmiyan founding Benin. Benin existed long before Oranmiyan came.

Nobody can say for certain if Benin went to ask Ife for a king or Oranmiyan as a descendant of Oduduwa/Izoduwa the exiled Benin prince came back to forcefully take back his fathers throne.

Does it matter if beads are produced locally in Ife or Lagos? Benin was very wealthy and advanced so can buy anything it needs from anywhere.
Early Europeans traded with African natives but it doesn’t mean the Africans were superior to the Europeans becos we produced pepper or spices.

Truth is Benin conquered and ruled Yoruba during when Benin was an empire.

1. Ehen, please provide references to peered review articles of Archeology to back your claim up and I will concede. Several studies abound on Ife, Owo, Esie and Bini arts and guess what? Ife is regarded as the oldest of all. However, I will wait to learn something new from you. So please, share references.

2. Your point about bead seemed very aggressive. I was talking about the importance of bead use in the palace at different stages. Ife used it first and Benin adopted it royally much later when coral beads flooded coastal trades.

3. Benin became an Empire around 17th century, the same time Oyo had already reached its peak of expansion. How again did Bini conquer Yoruba? Owo is Yoruba’s border town to Bini but Bini never conquered Owo, it could not. Bini only occupied pockets of areas, small areas. It was not a military power outside of Edoid groups & their areas such as Esan, Auchi & so on. Outside Edo areas, it was not a power.

[quote author=Y0ruba post=67175495]


1. The question should be, as I stated before, if Oranmiyan was indeed a son of an Ekhalederan and was invited, why then did he have to fight a group in Bini in order to be allowed to settle?

2. Also, if they indeed had a lost prince and knew Oranmiyan as his son - their son. How come he had problems ruling?

3. Deductions show that Oranmiyan was not invited and neither was there a lost prince. Bini had political crisis and he sought to cash in on it like he did in Oyo as a result of Oloyo’s political problems. Oranmiyan’s exploit in Bini was a failed Ife-expansionist agenda. The same exploits a number of Ife warrior-esque people tried see Maye & Sigbunsin in Ibadan, Derin Ologbenla at Oke Igbo & Ondo etc.




My first answer is for your first two questions.
1. Have you ever come across the name Evian, he was the one in charge of Benin during the period of the absence of the monarchy, the same way obaseki was in charge when Oba Ovonramwen was deposed. He was choosen by the Edionisen to rule. Read about how the name Ogiamen ccame about. What actually caused the journey to ife, was when Evian wanted to make his son succeed him as king the Edionisen resisted. So when Oronmiyan came he met an already established authority presiding in Benin. The city had two factions, those who where loyal to Evian and those who wanted primogeniture to continue. If Oromiyan had conquered Benin, why could he not enter the main palace or collect the royal stool. The person whoever fought a war with Ogiamen's descendant was Oba Ewedo. Oronmiyan could not even stay in Benin, because the authority in charge made life for him difficult, he had to go back because there cant be two captains in a ship. Oronmiyan did not fight a single battle in Benin.


For your 3rd deduction, i would ask, if Oronmiyan attempted to cash in on the political crisis in Benin but failed rather than him being invited, why was his son Eweka not killed by Evian and his descendant. Because it would have been very easy to kill the child of the enemy who fought with you.

For your 4th deduction, i did not question the origins or years of existence of the ife bead but what i said was that Benin had knowledge of this art and made local beads here i gave you a link, maybe you didnt read it. For you to say Benin started using beads in the 15th century is wrong. Read about Oba Ohen. It was Oba Ewuare in the 15th century who made bead so sacred and elevated its importance in Benin after he was exposed to coral beads during trade with early portuguese. It is said that him being the first who had contact with the whites, told the Benin people he collected the beads from Olokun the god of the sea after defeating him. Hence coral beads belonged to him only as a prize for defeating Olokun. Subsequently all other Obas made coral beads so relevant and placed it above locally made ones.

Y0ruba:


1. Ehen, please provide references to peered review articles of Archeology to back your claim up and I will concede. Several studies abound on Ife, Owo, Esie and Bini arts and guess what? Ife is regarded as the oldest of all. However, I will wait to learn something new from you. So please, share references.

2. Your point about bead seemed very aggressive. I was talking about the importance of bead use in the palace at different stages. Ife used it first and Benin adopted it royally much later when coral beads flooded coastal trades.

3. Benin became an Empire around 17th century, the same time Oyo had already reached its peak of expansion. How again did Bini conquer Yoruba? Owo is Yoruba’s border town to Bini but Bini never conquered Owo, it could not. Bini only occupied pockets of areas, small areas. It was not a military power outside of Edoid groups & their areas such as Esan, Auchi & so on. Outside Edo areas, it was not a power.

I cant say which is older between Ife and Benin, but i have already talked about the whole Bead issue. Now i will respond to your 3rd point. Imperial Benin became evident during the reign of Oba Ewuare the Great and this was in the late 14th century. If Benin was not imperial, i wonder what they were doing in Lagos. Try read from the official website of the Ekiti state govenrment about how Benin expansion got there and how it influenced many kingship tussles there till date. Go and read about the history of Akure when she came under Benin and how it influenced their kingship, just use google and read stuffs written by your kinsmen themselves. Even in owo, which is 1 hr 30 mins from Benin was under the empire. Yes there numbers of rebellion but that is expected, that is what makes up an empire. The same way Dahomey was a constant rebellious nation to Oyo so we had with other people here. Sentiments outside bro, the south had only two empires, Oyo and Benin.

odigbosky:
So i have been seeing a particular picture of the supposed burial sites of all Benin kings. Well lets try and be logical here. Over here in the South, we all know that the burial site of kings are kept secret even from family members. Some princes don't even have any idea where it is. I remember an Oghara Prince telling us that his father coprse had been beheaded and he doesnt even know the burial site. He is not suppose to even know at all. This is among the Uhrobos of Delta state. If we are to go by the fact the Ooni say Oba Ado is his son, is it not a let down that he shows commoners the burial place of one of his greatest sons. How many Ife indigines know the burial sites of all dead Oonis? if the Ooni has a burial site for Oba Ado as been showed here, it means the Ooni should have similar site for the Aalafin of Oyo and his other sons. Can the Ooni show us these sites also? if these other sons of Oduduwa dont have burial sites in Ife, why does Oba Ado has? and if they do and we cant see them, why then can we see that of Oba Ado? Secrecy is one of the features of kingship and lots of it matters.

All dead Obas of Benin are buried here in Ogbe but no one knows the exact location. No Bini man can come out to tell you, they dont even know it. I will give you some exeptions to these rule
1. Oba Omonoyan (oronmiyan) He did not die in Benin,he died in the yorubalands where he was born.
2. Oba Ewuare the Great was bureid at his mother village at Esi near Udo. He requested this himself
3. Oba Ehengbuda, He died by drowning in the coastal waters of Lagos.
4. Oba Ovonramwen, he died and was buried in Calabar.

Speaking of Oba Ovonramwen, i have tried searching for pictures of his burial site or grave in calabar i have not really seen any. Maybe if i visit calabar i will have the opportunity of seeing it, but if there is none, i will be dissapointed because if the Efiks of Calabar that are far away can at least show courtsey in keeping the burial site of a king from distant kingdom secret, i wonder why a father would choose to change the burial site of one of his sons to a public spectacle.


Below is the picture of the Burial site of Queen Bilikisu Sungbo of Oke-eri in Ogun state. Compare this to the supposed burial site or resting place for Kings of the great benin kingdom who they rank as 3rd in the list of yoruba kings.


Now see the original picture of the supposed burial site of Kings of Benin before it was even painted. you have a drainage running through. see dirty everywhere....i consider this an insult and a stain to the name Benin.

1. Ife indigenes know the burial site of the remainings of an Ooni. It is called ‘Igbo Odi’ and there’s a family in charge of it.

2. Orun Oba Ado was the spot from where Oranmiyan left. Not the entirety of Olubini’s corpse was brought back but minor parts like hair, nails and such. I will attach a screenshot of a book & also note the reference attached. The fact was recorded by Colonial District Officers. You may go to the archives to dig it up too.

3. Early Alaafin of Oyos died in battles. Alaafins leading wars did not stop until the days of Abiodun or Atiba, I think.

4. We can see that of Oba Ado because the family in charge of that burial spot made sure it was not abandoned. A good number of families have abandoned the reason they are chiefs in Ife.

odigbosky:




I cant say which is older between Ife and Benin, but i have already talked about the whole Bead issue. Now i will respond to your 3rd point. Imperial Benin became evident during the reign of Oba Ewuare the Great and this was in the late 14th century. If Benin was not imperial, i wonder what they were doing in Lagos. Try read from the official website of the Ekiti state govenrment about how Benin expansion got there and how it influenced many kingship tussles there till date. Go and read about the history of Akure when she came under Benin and how it influenced their kingship, just use google and read stuffs written by your kinsmen themselves. Even in owo, which is 1 hr 30 mins from Benin was under the empire. Yes there numbers of rebellion but that is expected, that is what makes up an empire. The same way Dahomey was a constant rebellious nation to Oyo so we had with other people here. Sentiments outside bro, the south had only two empires, Oyo and Benin.

You are stretching your luck.

Bini occupied pocket places not a stretch of land.

Empires are known to stretch evenly with the seat of power playing the nucleus. Benin could not conquer Owo & skipped to Ekitilands but failed. You should read books & not websites. Benin’s efforts in Ekiti area failed as a result of the far distance between Ekiti & Bini. When armies go to Ekiti to raid, they hardly ever receive support to entrench their rule and mostly always had to kust settle in with the more populous locals who reassert their independence. Until a new Bini king emerges and another army is raised again, the circle went over and over again.

Bini left so many areas between her & Lagos but came to Lagos Island to settle on a minute patch of land which was given to it out of recognized Bini & Yoruba connections NOT conquest. Did you even know Bini tried to take Epe & was badly defeated?

As for Akure, they had interactions including trade with Bini. Bini invaded once and left. The same way Ilesa had interactions with Bini. And Akure throne was revitalized by Ilesa throne. If you did not know, original Yoruba kings regarded themselves as brothers but Alaafin, Owa Ilesa & Olu Bini had a special relationship amongst them. They saw each other as blood brothers and they were tight with one another historically. Hence, Bini did not occupy Akure which is an offshoot of Ilesa throne.

Empires are not occupied in pockets. You do not skip A to D then occupy E, skip F to J then conquer K. This is what Bini ‘Empire’ was like. Do you know in the academia, History & Archeology to be exact, Bini is referred to as a Kingdom is literatures and not an Empire? Did you know it was because Bini did not fit into the bill of an empire?

On Wikipedia, as edited by Bini people, which has now been taken down. It was written that Bini ‘empire’ occupied Onitsha, Obalende & Lagos Island & Parts of present day Ondo state. Do you know how many towns are between Bini & Obalende/Lagos Island which Bini was unable to touch? Do you know how many towns are between Bini & Onitsha? Which were not under Bini? Do you know how many towns are between Bini & ‘present day Ondo state’ which were independent? Was this how empires in world history operated?

Y0ruba:


1. Ife indigenes know the burial site of the remainings of an Ooni. It is called ‘Igbo Odi’ and there’s a family in charge of it.

2. Orun Oba Ado was the spot from where Oranmiyan left. Not the entirety of Olubini’s corpse was brought back but minor parts like hair, nails and such. I will attach a screenshot of a book & also note the reference attached. The fact was recorded by Colonial District Officers. You may go to the archives to dig it up too.

3. Early Alaafin of Oyos died in battles. Alaafins leading wars did not stop until the days of Abiodun or Atiba, I think.

4. We can see that of Oba Ado because the family in charge of that burial spot made sure it was not abandoned. A good number of families have abandoned the reason they are chiefs in Ife.

Thank you for your answers.
Now, can we see images of the burial sites of dead Oonis, i believe you can get us a picture for that. Secondly if the district colonial officers took note of this, meaning they should have witnessed a time when a part of the Oba of Benin was sent to ife. If we are to go by that explanation, meaning you are indirectly saying the body part of Oba Ovonranmwen Nogbaisi who died in 1914 in calabar was sent to Orun Oba Ado in ife. Please can you provide proofs. Also, you just gave the excuse that most Alafin died in battles, sir, what was the position of the Orekankamfo in old Oyo. Also, kings dying in battle fields is not a genuine excuse for their bodies not being sent home for burial unless in extreme cases where the bodies couldn't be recovered. Also you only made reference to only the Alafin of Oyo, what about other children of Oduduwa.
Lastly, can you please tell me the name of the book you uploaded. Thank you very much.

author=odigbosky

1. We are saying the same things. He was not invited and neither was he a ‘son’. It was a failed expansionist attempt.

2. Was Owomika allowed to move his palace to where it is now? Was he not a ruler in the outskirts? And did the king who moved the palace not face stiff opposition?

3. You do not get it. Ogiso were not known to have used beads. In fact, excavations from the supposed location of Ogiso palace yielded nothing at all, not one single material was found. Ife was a bead making center, it had international bead trade, Ooni’s used beads heavily, Oranmiyan went from Ife the bead making & trading center where only Kings wore beads and then all of a sudden, in Bini, the kings who are descendants of Oranmiyan began using beads and placed premium on it. Get it now?

Y0ruba:



You are stretching your luck.

Bini occupied pocket places not a stretch of land.

Empires are known to stretch evenly with the seat of power playing the nucleus. Benin could not conquer Owo & skipped to Ekitilands but failed. You should read books & not websites. Benin’s efforts in Ekiti area failed as a result of the far distance between Ekiti & Bini. When armies go to Ekiti to raid, they hardly ever receive support to entrench their rule and mostly always had to kust settle in with the more populous locals who reassert their independence. Until a new Bini king emerges and another army is raised again, the circle went over and over again.

Bini left so many areas between her & Lagos but came to Lagos Island to settle on a minute patch of land which was given to it out of recognized Bini & Yoruba connections NOT conquest. Did you even know Bini tried to take Epe & was badly defeated?

As for Akure, they had interactions including trade with Bini. Bini invaded once and left. The same way Ilesa had interactions with Bini. And Akure throne was revitalized by Ilesa throne. If you did not know, original Yoruba kings regarded themselves as brothers but Alaafin, Owa Ilesa & Olu Bini had a special relationship amongst them. They saw each other as blood brothers and they were tight with one another historically. Hence, Bini did not occupy Akure which is an offshoot of Ilesa throne.

Empires are not occupied in pockets. You do not skip A to D then occupy E, skip F to J then conquer K. This is what Bini ‘Empire’ was like. Do you know in the academia, History & Archeology to be exact, Bini is referred to as a Kingdom is literatures and not an Empire? Did you know it was because Bini did not fit into the bill of an empire?

On Wikipedia, as edited by Bini people, which has now been taken down. It was written that Bini ‘empire’ occupied Onitsha, Obalende & Lagos Island & Parts of present day Ondo state. Do you know how many towns are between Bini & Obalende/Lagos Island which Bini was unable to touch? Do you know how many towns are between Bini & Onitsha? Which were not under Bini? Do you know how many towns are between Bini & ‘present day Ondo state’ which were independent? Was this how empires in world history operated?

You made me laugh with your reply. So the British had to conquer all of europe, down to india and africa before she could be called an empire. Oh, i wonder why the spaniards did not conquer portugal, france and germany before heading to south america or why did they not conquer thailand, cambodia, before settling in the Phillipines. Now, regarding all your imperial knowledge, can you relate those qualities of an ideal empire to Oyo.

odigbosky:


Thank you for your answers.
Now, can we see images of the burial sites of dead Oonis, i believe you can get us a picture for that. Secondly if the district colonial officers took note of this, meaning they should have witnessed a time when a part of the Oba of Benin was sent to ife. If we are to go by that explanation, meaning you are indirectly saying the body part of Oba Ovonranmwen Nogbaisi who died in 1914 in calabar was sent to Orun Oba Ado in ife. Please can you provide proofs. Also, you just gave the excuse that most Alafin died in battles, sir, what was the position of the Orekankamfo in old Oyo. Also, kings dying in battle fields is not a genuine excuse for their bodies not being sent home for burial unless in extreme cases where the bodies couldn't be recovered. Also you only made reference to only the Alafin of Oyo, what about other children of Oduduwa.
Lastly, can you please tell me the name of the book you uploaded. Thank you very much.

The proof is in the archives, bro. See the reference? It was witnessed & recorded by F. H Rosedale the Ife Colonial District Officer who then relayed it to the British Commissioner in Oyo in 1916. It is in Oyo file at the archives, you will find more data there.

Of course I can get you new pictures of the aesthetically revamped spot.

Are Ona Kakanfo was a recent development. Regardless, during the Fulani wars, Alaafins had to go out to fight.

Ife as 6 quarters occupied by over 300 compounds. Each child of Oduduwa are tied to certain compounds and perform their rituals there. Bini just happened to be tied to Orun Oba Ado spot & the family in-charge whose compound is on the same street the palace Oduduwa occupied is situated at and it is in Ilare. Alaafin is tied to Akogun & Eredunmi in Okerewe - other Yoruba kings have their sites, compounds & attendant rituals connecting them too.

Y0ruba:


1. We are saying the same things. He was not invited and neither was he a ‘son’. It was a failed expansionist attempt.

2. Was Owomika allowed to move his palace to where it is now? Was he not a ruler in the outskirts? And did the king who moved the palace not face stiff opposition?

3. You do not get it. Ogiso were not known to have used beads. In fact, excavations from the supposed location of Ogiso palace yielded nothing at all, not one single material was found. Ife was a bead making center, it had international bead trade, Ooni’s used beads heavily, Oranmiyan went from Ife the bead making & trading center where only Kings wore beads and then all of a sudden, in Bini, the kings who are descendants of Oranmiyan began using beads and placed premium on it. Get it now?

You forget we had close to about 38 ogisos. Bro, that is a long list on its own and you didn't mention the ogiso palace. Please Owomika had his palace at Usama. If you have been to Benin you would have known how close USama is to the present palace ground. It is very close bro, and both palace are situated at Ogbe. Oba Ewedo after defeating Ogiamen's descendant moved from Usama into the present palace ground. Bro he did not face any oppostion, he had just defeated his opposition in a battle. Usama is the place all Benin Obas are crowned because that was the place Oronmiyan was crowned.
Concerning the beads, i will do more research on it also. i think you should do same also, there are so many things to learn

odigbosky:



You made me laugh with your reply. So the British had to conquer all of europe, down to india and africa before she could be called an empire. Oh, i wonder why the spaniards did not conquer portugal, france and germany before heading to south america or why did they not conquer thailand, cambodia, before settling in the Phillipines. Now, regarding all your imperial knowledge, can you relate those qualities of an ideal empire to Oyo.

Despite your logic here being unapplicable considering your references are inter-continental, I’ll take you on the ride nonetheless.

The British conquered her immediate environment and spread out to New world, then India and Africa. And at the time it was the world’s unrivaled naval power that threw its weight around Western Europe.

Spain conquered her environment and spread out when it was an imperial power. At a point, Spain ruled Italy and was stretching. This was around the Age of Discovery.

During Renaissance & Reformation, France was tearing German states apart and was consolidating itself as an empire in the long haul.

Ottoman conquered its environment and spread its tentancle into Eastern & Western Europe ans North Africa.

Oyo Empire conquered Western Yorubalands and took immediate towns of Popo, Sabe, Alaketu and Dahomey and then moved on to Togo next.

An empire is not surrounded by independent states while having dependencies far off in pocket places. Na kingdom be that.

odigbosky:



You forget we had close to about 38 ogisos. Bro, that is a long list on its own and you didn't mention the ogiso palace. Please Owomika had his palace at Usama. If you have been to Benin you would have known how close USama is to the present palace ground. It is very close bro, and both palace are situated at Ogbe. Oba Ewedo after defeating Ogiamen's descendant moved from Usama into the present palace ground. Bro he did not face any oppostion, he had just defeated his opposition in a battle. Usama is the place all Benin Obas are crowned because that was the place Oronmiyan was crowned.
Concerning the beads, i will do more research on it also. i think you should do same also, there are so many things to learn

Make I reach house send you snap shot of Egbarevba’s work on political struggles between Oba & certain Bini groups. You may know the details but I’ll share them nonetheless.

ACF Ryder had this to say about Ogiso’s period being true. Look at sentence with superscript 2 & the footnote appended to it.

[quote author=odigbosky post=67176335][/quote]


Absolutely untrue. Oranmiyan didn't met Adimula( Oduduwa) on throne,which knocked off your point. Secondly, naturally in the ancient IFE , after consultation of IFA , princes with pedigree lives to explore new ground and places,so did Oranmiyan and princes before he was even born. Such as Fagbamila Orangun Ila, Owu, Obokun, Olalomi etc . Secondly, Owomika couldn't have been killed because, where he( Oranmiyan) settled down were warriors who came with him from ILE IFE and protected the child as well as the loyalist Igodomigodo warriors. Thirdly, IFE beads existed before Bini's because Bini itself was a Yoruba captured enclave and introduction of Yoruba kingly system as well as genealogy record took firm root in Bini . And it was after Oranmiyan left before his grandson conquered the other stretch part of Aka/ Igodomigodo. Fourthly, Oranmiyan had to leave because IFA was the path to all Princes and other hunters migration to anywhere in Yorubaland. Lastly, below is the picture of excavated beads at Olokun site in ILE IFE,which dated back to over 1000 years ago.

Cheers

odigbosky:



You forget we had close to about 38 ogisos. Bro, that is a long list on its own and you didn't mention the ogiso palace. Please Owomika had his palace at Usama. If you have been to Benin you would have known how close USama is to the present palace ground. It is very close bro, and both palace are situated at Ogbe. Oba Ewedo after defeating Ogiamen's descendant moved from Usama into the present palace ground. Bro he did not face any oppostion, he had just defeated his opposition in a battle. Usama is the place all Benin Obas are crowned because that was the place Oronmiyan was crowned.
Concerning the beads, i will do more research on it also. i think you should do same also, there are so many things to learn

Is Usama originally part of Uselu?

steveosaz:


Bro, you can do better than that? Oduduwa family members in Ife? Even amongst the yorubas, such hogwash wouldn't sell. And when did some random, unknown dude become an authority in this subject? Anyway, that tells much about how you yorubas came up with all manner of conjectures and conjugation about Oduduwa and your history where both princes and slaves all put pen to paper and scribbling down fallacies, fantacies and outright lies all in the name of history telling. You can now see why you people have so many versions of Oduduwa's origin and are practically unable to streamline them. This is the latest addition to the stable. Una well-done oo. LooooL.

steveosaz:


Can you now see that evm from your own postulations, you don't have a clue where that Oduduwa chap came from(that's from Yoruba angle).

The Bini claim is totally independent of what you guys are contending here.

I don't belong to those family lineages that are custodians of oduduwa. It is in Ife you would find them, so all i can say as to 'clues' are what i read
like Y0ruba stated, there is so much secrecy involved and only those initiated are privileged but many yorubas are christians or muslims who frown upon such so it is understandable that many versions would be going around. It is left to you to decide who is right - the yoruba muslims and christians who want to attach themselves to where their religion is coming from or the Yoruba traditionalists who actually practically live to protect this knowledge

Y0ruba:


1. Ehen, please provide references to peered review articles of Archeology to back your claim up and I will concede. Several studies abound on Ife, Owo, Esie and Bini arts and guess what? Ife is regarded as the oldest of all. However, I will wait to learn something new from you. So please, share references.

2. Your point about bead seemed very aggressive. I was talking about the importance of bead use in the palace at different stages. Ife used it first and Benin adopted it royally much later when coral beads flooded coastal trades.

3. Benin became an Empire around 17th century, the same time Oyo had already reached its peak of expansion. How again did Bini conquer Yoruba? Owo is Yoruba’s border town to Bini but Bini never conquered Owo, it could not. Bini only occupied pockets of areas, small areas. It was not a military power outside of Edoid groups & their areas such as Esan, Auchi & so on. Outside Edo areas, it was not a power.

You sound like the white men who distorts truth for their self gain.
It’s common knowledge Benin was the first kingdom to grow into an empire. Benin saw the birth and death of Oyo empire.

Benin Empire ruled over Yoruba lands east of Ife while Oyo took western Yoruba lands. Only Ife was left independent because of its spiritual and religious status.

FYI I will say it again; Ekiti, ondo, owo and Lagos were all vassal states under Benin.

No amount of ur lies can ever change that.

Y0ruba:


1. Ife indigenes know the burial site of the remainings of an Ooni. It is called ‘Igbo Odi’ and there’s a family in charge of it.

2. Orun Oba Ado was the spot from where Oranmiyan left. Not the entirety of Olubini’s corpse was brought back but minor parts like hair, nails and such. I will attach a screenshot of a book & also note the reference attached. The fact was recorded by Colonial District Officers. You may go to the archives to dig it up too.

3. Early Alaafin of Oyos died in battles. Alaafins leading wars did not stop until the days of Abiodun or Atiba, I think.

4. We can see that of Oba Ado because the family in charge of that burial spot made sure it was not abandoned. A good number of families have abandoned the reason they are chiefs in Ife.

Reading this comedy of errors made one crack up real hard. Probabilities upon probabilities is what you call your source of history?

'(Some say only his head)' can you imagine that? Some say it's the entire corpse others say only the head and this chap^^ went further to add his own fallacy when he said hairs and fingernails - jeez! This is someone sitting under a tree and simply writing history off his own imagination.

'Whenever a Benin Prince brought the remains of his predecessor(which no knows whether its the compete corpse or the head or fingernails and hairs), he also sought sanction from Ile Ife for his own succession'. This is where it leaves no one on doubt that this writer is a comedian of first grade. It would have made sense to had it been that was said of maybe the Alaafin of Oyo or any other king who usually go through a certain selection, but certainly not the Obaship of Benin. The Tradition in Benin has always been a hereditary monarchy such that only the heir apparent or crown prince who must also the the first male son of the king has the exclusive right of inheritance of the throne. Its a right bestowed exclusively by birth and not due to any non existing approval from Ife. The question then should be; in a situation where Ife rejects the crown prince, who then do they appoint? This has never been alluded to by anyone conversant with the working of the traditional stool in Benin and this writer was at best hallucinating.

Yet still, the mystery of all these back and forth arguments isn't in post Oduduwa Ife-Benin era but in the pre Oduduwa era of both cities, and that's where the Edo oral tradition clearly has an upper hand in logic and sensibility.

But as for this writer, his work is just garbage. A literary work based on too many conjectures is not good for reference - no authority.