bpalace:

Are you for real? Can you pick and interpret heart murmurs? Oh, my gwad... U ppl are crazy.

Hw do u diagnose arrhythmia or dysrythmia?

bpalace:

Oga, they don't produce drugs in hospitals... I don't know why ppl will study pharmacy in Nigeria and choose to dispense drugs as a living... Fight to contribute more in management of patients in nigeria

Clearly ur outdated. Compounding are done in hospitals

bpalace:

Are you for real? Can you pick and interpret heart murmurs? Oh, my gwad... U ppl are crazy.

This is a childish question

MOST and by that I mean over 99% of doctors cannot do this anyone saying otherwise is a liar or fraud


Anyway what is the diagnostic reliability of such "murmur interpretation" in an era of modern imagery and other technology

frankpro27:


Hw do u diagnose arrhythmia or dysrythmia?

The last time I check, arrhythmia is not a disease. A doctor can not make a diagnosis of arrhythmia. Doctors make diagnosis of disease not symptoms or sign.... arrhythmia is a sign not a diagnosis
pls check it up

frankpro27:


Hw do u diagnose arrhythmia or dysrythmia?

The last time I checked, arrhythmia is not a disease. A doctor can not make a diagnosis of arrhythmia. Doctors make diagnosis of disease not symptoms or sign.... arrhythmia is a sign not a diagnosis
pls check it up

Amarabae:
Hahahahahahaha.
Am I surprised?NO.
My time in Nigeria is rounding up, time to move out,
Just let my baby clock 1.
Any co graduate nurse should save up money and leave this pit toilet of a country.
You will know your real value outside.
Let the malaria and typhoid specialists continue to deceive themselves in the name of NMA.
The real doctors are outside the country,
Local champions
.

Even when you finally leave this country, you'll still be under the subjugation of doctors. They're your bosses and as a nurse you'll forever continue to serve as a sperm receptacle and extra for them.

It's your destiny. It's the reality. Get used to it.

SLYX:


All this nonsense typing, is it about the foolish Nigerian doctors that know nothing. Why do you think President Buhari had to travel for medical check up outside. It's crystal clear that Nigerian doctors are not worth it at all. I have first hand experience of how doctors in teaching hospitals managed my mom's health almost to death. Just one visit to a Turkish hospital, all their wrong diagnosis were revealed. And today my mom is alive and strong. I rather die than submit myself to be treated by a Nigerian doctor

Undiluted brutality

Freddonance:



The last time I checked, arrhythmia is not a disease. A doctor can not make a diagnosis of arrhythmia. Doctors make diagnosis of disease not symptoms or sign.... arrhythmia is a sign not a diagnosis
pls check it up

Actually there are several arrhythmia diagnoses

e.g SVT, VT. AF Paroxysmal Tachycardia etc.

THEY ARE diagnoses, no argument
Your argument is akin to saying epilepsy is not a diagnosis

However such grandstanding is not relevant to the discussion here. Most doctors are not cardiologists and have nothing to do with arrhythmias. The only relevance to the discussion would be how much does an arrhythmia patient bring into the business and how should that be shared.

Let us not get into technical issues of medicine it is quite childish

kowalsky:



Even when you finally leave this country, you'll still be under the subjugation of doctors. They're your bosses and as a nurse you'll forever continue to their serve as a sperm receptacle and extra for them.

It's your destiny. It's the reality. Get used to it.

Not true a nurse is more likely to become CEO in the NHS than a doctor in the UK

aribisala0:


Actually there are several arrhythmia diagnoses

e.g SVT, VT. AF Paroxysmal Tachycardia etc.

THEY ARE diagnoses, no argument
Your argument is akin to saying epilepsy is not a diagnosis

However such grandstanding is not relevant to the discussion here. Most doctors are not cardiologists and have nothing to do with arrhythmias. The only relevance to the discussion would be how much does an arrhythmia patient bring into the business and how should that be shared.

Let us not get into technical issues of medicine it is quite childish

I think I understand you better now

I read most comment here and I just laughed.how many young pharmacist do you see in the hospital,After their internship most go into industrial and community practice and why is this so? Because of all these unnecessary tussle for power by these egocentric doctors, why would I stay in a hospital and earn 120k when I can earn 5* of that in a moment,stock my premise,add my mark up, provide quality services,good counselling skills, treat some minor ailement that doesn't require going to the hospital.

You all doctors can wallow with your 200k and above salary, but don't look down on any pharmacist,

mysteryman2014:


I thought it is called the health system, so everyone has a role to play. The ego trip of some doctors like you are not helping matters.

Everyone has his own calling, yours does not give u the right to rough shoulder other professionals in the system

There is a cry for doctors shortage in UK, sweden, Germany, and UAE. Have ever wondered why there's no such cry for lab scientist and pharmacists. Do the maths, Doctors are the most important in the equation in the health sector and they'll always be in high demand the world over. Thats just how the life is, nothing will change it. If anyone hates it, then go back to school and study Medicine.

optm:
it didnt tk oda professionals years and their training wasn't capital intensive? hw ignorant can one b nd yet spew trash in confidence

Please do tell how "capital intensive" nursing or being a hospital porters is? Are the requirements for these roles equally or more stringent than that of Medicine & Surgery? Do you have any freaking idea how difficult it is to become a doctor (and this is coming from an engineer)? You folks in JOHESU need to get real cos there can NEVER be any equality between you folks and Doctors. It is the simple reality. Wake up.

aribisala0:
Not true a nurse is more likely to become CEO in the NHS than a doctor in the UK

I'm going to act as if this claim is authentic. I'm sure you picked it up from one random blog site, but no wahala.


This is where you guys get the whole NMA JOHESU tussle wrong. First Nigeria doesn't operate a CEO oriented clinical practice - which at it's foundations is segmented with power divided among composite groups. i.e power is decentralized and even though a nurse heads the hospital, she does so for purely managerial purposes. She's a CEO.

Nigeria operates a heriarchal medical system. The CMD's power supercedes every other entity that be both managerially and clinical. He/she can overturn any decision whether patient care decision or otherwise regardless of any prevailing circumstance.


It makes no sense for a med lab scientist. Or nurse. To wield such power. A pharmacist I can agree. But never the former two. They were by every factual basis, not trained to supercede the medical authority of a doctor. Doctors undergo all training a nurse takes. They're trained to be med lab scientists. But the former two are limited by their scope of training. Whoever is responsible for this limitation, justifiable or not, is none of my business.


It follows that they at every point in time stay supervised by an mbbs holder. It's the same scenario in the military with commissioned and non-commissioned officers. The mbbs degree is different from the b.nsc or b.sc degree awarded to nurses and mls.

I say it once again. They're not the same.

Amarabae:

Ask them why many doctors are opening pharmacy in order to make some money

Seriously....and that is already changing.

They won't be able to do that very soon.

6inches:
I read most comment here and I just laughed.how many young pharmacist do you see in the hospital,After their internship most go into industrial and community practice and why is this so? Because of all these unnecessary tussle for power by these egocentric doctors, why would I stay in a hospital and earn 120k when I can earn 5* of that in a moment,stock my premise,add my mark up, provide quality services,good counselling skills, treat some minor ailement that doesn't require going to the hospital.

You all doctors can wallow with your 200k and above salary, but don't look down on any pharmacist,

Those who know, know

kowalsky:



Even when you finally leave this country, you'll still be under the subjugation of doctors. They're your bosses and as a nurse you'll forever continue to their serve as a sperm receptacle and extra for them.

It's your destiny. It's the reality. Get used to it.

This isn't fair bro....

MrBigiman:


Codiene is banned, go and a smoke cow dung for now and free me. I have no business with Johesu by the grace of the Almighty God. And God will not allow me work in any of those teaching hospitals IJN. I earn 3 times more than the nurse where I am, and 2 times more than the pharmacist. Affliction will not drag me to the shithole called Government hospital. This I pray in Gods name and power. Amen!

Mr boaster please can you also tell us how many lives you have saved without the assistance of the Pharmacist and nurses you work withmy guy you are too lousy and chronically uncultured for someone that supposedly handle people's health..just wait till you make ground breaking achievements in medicine before you beat your chest..l still maintain that doctors are the major setback in our health sector as they practically throw their Hippocratic oath to the trash for unnecessary ego-triggered self aggrandizement... l pity those boasting about doctors' superiority to Pharmacists and Nurses out of ignorance..soon Nigerians will prefer the option of foreign medical trips(for the rich) or Tradomedical care (for the average and poor) than to present themselves to a bunch of self serving underqualified people parading as Nigerian doctors..Apologies to the exceptional ones within the NMA...make me angry
and l will be forced to publish the apology from a popular teaching hospital whose so called consultants were found wanting in the death of a relative..nonsense...in fact l will appeal that henceforth all wrong prescriptions by the almighty doctors be put in the public domain with the full identities of the prescribers to show Nigerians that many of Nigerian doctors are grossly deficient and are too proud to admit and learn...Mind you mr boaster there are very young Pharmacists that are very successful for their age and years of experience and can pay you double whatever you earn in that your Private hospital or NGO...Be humble and let others live their lives....something tells me you are a jobless doctor or one of those earning #50,000 in one corner

kowalsky:



Are all of you mad or there's snake dancing in your head.

Read that write up very well. NMA agreed to Johesu pay increase the major bone of contention is Johesu's systemic orchestration of a power usurping mechanism.

They want to be on the same level in terms of power and authority in the hospital. Imagine a nurse being a consultant. Consultant in what the hell I may ask. They feel it's a political appointment without realizing that consultants earn that rank by going through a strenuous stretch of training and exams. More demanding than medical school itself.

Nurses and the rest of the rejects (yes they're rejects, 99% of them wanted medicine and couldn't get it because their father's were poor or because they lacked the intellect) want to sit in their offices, bang doctors, grow fat and then become consultants.

What nonsense! No where in the world does this kind of fuckery comes up. If the federal government dares to cave in to their requests. Expect a lot of people to die cause no way will a doctor be in the same hospital where a nurse is CMD. It doesn't happen anywhere else in the world and Nigeria will not be the first.

Nonsense!

With the kind of submission you are making, I have only disdain for your crass immaturity and insufferable ignorance.

With the verbiage you are spewing, what makes you different from a stark illiterate?

kowalsky:



I'm going to act as if this claim is authentic. I'm sure you picked it up from one random blog site, but no wahala.


This is where you guys get the whole NMA JOHESU tussle wrong. First Nigeria doesn't operate a CEO oriented clinical practice - which at it's foundations is segmented with power divided among composite groups. i.e power is decentralized and even though a nurse heads the hospital, she does so for purely managerial purposes. She's a CEO.

Nigeria operates a heriarchal medical system. The CMD's power supercedes every other entity that be both managerially and clinical. He/she can overturn any decision whether patient care decision or otherwise regardless of any prevailing circumstance.


It makes no sense for a med lab scientist. Or nurse. To wield such power. A pharmacist I can agree. But never the former two. They were by every factual basis, not trained to supercede the medical authority of a doctor. Doctors undergo all training a nurse takes. They're trained to be med lab scientists. But the former two are limited by their scope of training. Whoever is responsible for this limitation, justifiable or not, is none of my business.


It follows that they at every point in time stay supervised by an mbbs holder. It's the same scenario in the military with commissioned and non-commissioned officers. The mbbs degree is different from the b.nsc or b.sc degree awarded to nurses and mls.

I say it once again. They're not the same.

.

It makes no sense for a med lab whatever to wield such power you say? What if he set up the business or hospital as a company and owns it ? and is able to offer better services at lower cost than the federal hospital? That is capitalism, in serious places he could put in a bid and be given a franchise and become CEO. We will move in that directon because of one thing ,MONEY!

Doctors too have to pay more attention to money. What is actually bringing in or taking out money and how to manage that. That particular skilll is not taught to doctors in their training and to pretend otherwise is hubris.
If Dangote was the CEO of a hospitall would that be absurd?

If you want to argue with a Pharmacist about who should head the hopsital base your argument on your knowledge of accounting, operations,Cash Management, Project Managment. Workforce Planning not asking silly and immature questions about disease and treatment.
Any person who has matured in a hospital workforce environment who is entrepreneurial could manage a Hospital without need to be of a specifc technical background

frankpro27:


Nd a pharmacist got his on a platter of gold. Shut ur mouth already. Thr is no much difference bw a pharm.D holder Nd a medical doctor. A pharmacist can do all except surgery. Bt also, a doctor can't compound or produce drugs. What do doctors knw about drugs pls.

Haaaaaa......
This one has gone mad ooo

aribisala0:

.

It maes no sense for a med lab whatever to wield such power you say? What if he set up the business or hospital as a company and owns it ? and is able to offer better services at lower cost than the federal hospital? That is capitalism in serious places he could put in a bid and be give a franchise and become CEO. We will move in that directon because of one thing ,MONEY!

Doctors too have to pay more attention to money. What is actually bringing in or taking out money and how to manage tthat. That particular skilll is not taught to doctors in their training and to pretend otherwise is hubris.
If Dangote was the CEO of a hospitall would that be absurd?

You're not getting my point.

If a med lab scientist sets up a hospital and I work for him. Sure I'm under his jurisdiction as per work schedule and job conditions but not under his authority when it comes to patient care and treatment. That's the ways it works in the UK you cited an that's fairly normal.


But if JOHESU's demand eventually go through. They especially the nurses will at some point have medical superiority over doctors. That's just wrong.

kowalsky:



You're not getting my point.

If a med lab scientist sets up a hospital and I work for him. Sure I'm under his jurisdiction as per work schedule and job conditions but not under his authority when it comes to patient care and treatment. That's the ways it works in the UK you cited an that's fairly normal.


But if JOHESU's demand eventually go through. They especially the nurses will at some point have medical superiority over doctors. That's just wrong.

No I am struggling.What is medical superiority? What does that mean?

aribisala0:
This is a childish question

MOST and by that I mean over 99% of doctors cannot do this anyone saying otherwise is a liar or fraud


Anyway what is the diagnostic reliability of such "murmur interpretation" in an era of modern imagery and other technology

The question is not childish perhaps u may not know how important it is...
Most doctors shd be able to pick mumurs and attempt grading them...
The pointer is to know when to refer the patient to a specialist... Cardiologist.... Not a consultant pharmacist..

frankpro27:


That's the problem. U guys always think dat j knw it all Nd others ar dumb. Aside surgery, a hospital will run perfectly well without a doctor. Take that to the bank.

Funny
That's y we have quacks about who claim to be doctors

frankpro27:


Clearly ur outdated. Compounding are done in hospitals

Chief, u are in Nigeria pls, compounding ke? Which hospital...? Pls apply in emzor and make ur money, produce drugs, do research works and be happy... I would do so if I were u.

frankpro27:


Hw do u diagnose arrhythmia or dysrythmia?

Lol... Funny question? DM, if u wanna learn

ocelot2006:


Please do tell how "capital intensive" nursing or being a hospital porters is? Are the requirements for these roles equally or more stringent than that of Medicine & Surgery? Do you have any freaking idea how difficult it is to become a doctor (and this is coming from an engineer)? You folks in JOHESU need to get real cos there can NEVER be any equality between you folks and Doctors. It is the simple reality. Wake up.

is it only nursing nd hospital portals dt mk up johesu? besides u hv no idea on d rigors dey go tru in bcoming one as u do nt hv a first hand experience in d training demands in these professions u term a walk over

bpalace:

The question is not childish perhaps u may not know how important it is...
Most doctors shd be able to pick mumurs and attempt grading them...
The pointer is to know when to refer the patient to a specialist... Cardiologist.... Not a consultant pharmacist..

It is childish and irrelevant. Of wht importance is knowledge of how to deal with murmurs crucial to any managerial or executive function within a hospital or series of hospitals. Hospitals are not about doctors alone why don't we have a conversation about technical issues of hospital airconditioning systems advantages and disadvantages , or talk about the cleaning and sanitary arrangements and infection control. We do not act like little chidren wanting our interest to be everyone else's interest. This is a collaboration and often the best managers tend to be nondoctors because they are humble and wthout the petulant and ugly sense of entitlement that "MBBS HOLDERS" possess.
The task of managing a hospital is very different from treating a murmur as different as it is from the task of cleaning an incontinent patient bth of course very honourable roles.

Amarabae:

Look at a hungry accountant talking.
Go to the street and see many jobless accountancy graduates.
Even an auxiliary nurse who is a quack has more job opportunities than many accountancy graduates.
Keep quiet pls.
Who knows una.
All professional courses in johesu are respected more than accountants,
Can you talk when a pharmacist introduce himself in public,
Even as a graduate nurse, I am respected in the society far than you.
Have a sit pls.
This post is about those in the health sector.
You are not needed here.
Accountant my foot!

amarabae, how far u now
I taught u are more clued before Jor.

and so., what if he is an accountant,
so u don't even have respect for other professionals aside health about,

now it's obvious u would have actually done worse to johesu if u av been a doctor..

see hatred .. chai..

beside wen are u leaving this country Biko, a friend of mine in one health tech just graduated as a nurse , Biko she's looking for who she can replace..

bpalace:

Chief, u are in Nigeria pls, compounding ke? Which hospital...? Pls apply in emzor and make ur money, produce drugs, do research works and be happy... I would do so if I were u.

Why do these Nairaland doctors display so much ignorance. I am ashamed on your behalf

How will you give a child with pulmonary hypertension say 15mg of Sildenafil once or twice daily for 1 month and the available form is the 100mg tablets? And this child needs to take it in suspension form.
I know you will tell me to just divide the tablets...

Elueme:

I wish u could digest the NMA position before posting this crap..
NMA is not against pay rise for anybody but ask that relativity be sacrosanct according to international best practice.. A doctor with several academic battering and fellowship struggle cannot be on same salary scale with a nurse or pharmacist.. forget the age and all, the quality of service isn't same irrespective of how old one has been in service. We must learn to respect professionalism in this country.
Johesu was formed to hang up against the doctors in the health sector because they feel with their strength they can arm twist the government.. Some of it's demands ate briddled with ego, jealousy and desire to reap where one didn't sow. The door is wide open for any who wishes to study medicine. No following short cut, go back to school and be accorded same status.

God bless you.Dont know why people find it difficult to digest write ups before putting up a comment.NMA isn't stopping salary increment for other health workers. Anyone that wants to earn like a doctor should also be a doctor.