dokxavi:

I know this already.
We can now agree that pharmacists with fellowship with the required knowledge can be called "consultants". It does not weaken my practice,it strengthens it as I can seek superior advice from a colleague pharmacist,if necessary. I make recommendations based on that advice.

Please don't misunderstand medical doctors, they are,in the most, liberal and allow outside input.They just want that input to be superior and of utility. Doctors are already trained to seek second or third opinions for the good of the client and in the Hippocratic oath,it says seek knowledge. I know all doctors refer patients beyond their limits of knowledge (no man knows or has it all) to better qualified or equipped colleagues.That input must be advanced for the good of the patients, I am certain that's the position of the NMA.

In fact,that is one of the bedrocks of the medical doctors' field.

Good! We are all lords in our chosen profession
A physician is the alpha in medical diagnosis,drawing treatment plans...
A pharmacist is the chief when it comes to drugs and drug related matters
Everyone is superior in his or her fields

The only way a doctor can maintain an edge over others is to upgrade.MBBS alone won't do it .You must have SKILLS that other do not have.

Treating chronic conditions like epilepsy, asthma , High BP, are areas that increasingly other professional will compete for.
Same for acute conditions like malaria. With modern technology this will only intensify

Yes there is a turf war goin on. The way to fight is is not by bluff and bullying but to convince the market.
I do not see much future for the MBBS only cadre because many others can do what they do cheaper.

DABMarkNig2019:
Lagos is a progressive state. The government said it approved the consultancy status for pharmacists in line with international best practices.
I hope this will put an end to the crises in the nation's health system

This is a great development.

No one should waste time responding to anyone not okay with this development. Medical doctors are ordinary civil servants just like pharmacists and nurses and so on. They are employees just like these other professionals, and as employees it borders on arrogance and hubris to seek to determine the career direction and height of other members of other professionals. And as for those medics weeping that things are much better outside the country than in the country for them, they should take their leave and go. We will not miss them. Let us see whether they can do over there half of the messed up things they do here in Nigeria. News flash: it's not only doctors that things are better for abroad. As a private tutor in London almost then ten years ago I was earning as much as £30 per hour: in Nigeria you don't earn that even as a doctor. Neither is it only medical doctors that are leaving the country in droves. Engineers are leaving. Nurses are leaving. Pharmacists are leaving.... even jobless people are. So, you should imbibe some decorum and spare us the self-pity.

If anyone is not okay with the way things are, take your leave. Fact: we have more than ten medical doctors are willing and ready to fill up your post. In fact, at the moment we have too many jobless doctors going around doing private practice that fetch them about 50k per month. So, you intent on leaving I join you in hoping that your visa be granted soon, it will allow more grateful and younger medical doctors to have access to the job you do not appreciate.

This country has produced about 25,000 pharmacists since inception. Out of this, only about 14,000 pharmacists are currently registered and working in Nigeria. About 11,000 having either left the country or have decided to not practice as pharmacist. Out of the 14,000 registered pharmacists rendering services to over 180 million Nigerians, more than half of them are working in Lagos alone. (In fact, the whole 14,000 are not enough to service Lagos state.) What this means is that we have less than 7,000 pharmacists servicing all other states in Nigeria. A simple arithmetic will give you the ratio of population to a pharmacist in Nigeria (about 13,000 to 1 pharmacist); let us now compare this with the idea ratio. In other words, pharmacists are in a lot shorter supply than medical doctors. And we indeed have better reason to leave this country than many others. But many of us have decided to return and build this country, if we do not build our own country, no one will do it for us. And we will not stay in this country and watch and accommodate some arrogant persons seeking to decide how much we can achieve in our own profession.

The summary of the message is this: If anyone, medical doctor or pharmacist or carpenter, is not satisfied with the situation of things in Nigeria and is not ready and willing to endure and build this country with all other patient and well-meaning Nigerians, such individual should take his leave and stop constituting nuisance for everyone here. Take your certificates and licenses and go abroad. No one will prevent you from leaving. But in this Nigeria that we have here, every group of professionals has the right and must strife towards increasing specialization in order to bring the best out of each profession. A servant has no authority to stop the rising of another.

PS: Please, those reacting should not come up with the s.illy argument asking me to go and take a JAMB form to study medicine. Some of us hate medicine as a course because we find it too limiting especially for those greatly endowed in physical sciences.

aribisala0:
The only way a doctor can maintain an edge over others is to upgrade.MBBS alone won't do it .You must have SKILLS that other do not have.

Treating chronic conditions like epilepsy, asthma , High BP, are areas that increasingly other professional will compete for.
Same for acute conditions like malaria. With modern technology this will only intensify

Yes there is a turf war goin on. The way to fight is is not by bluff and bullying but to convince the market.
I do not see much future for the MBBS only cadre because many others can do what they do cheaper.

Lol. Lol. Compete for treating cases? So funny.



What is this one spewing? (Somebody give me that meme).

Obviously, if he is a medical personnel,he has never worked in a hospital.Roles never coalesce,everybody on his lane.

A trained pharmacist will never accept a prescription from another pharmacist or medical laboratory scientist or physiotherapist or nurse,for instance.Drugs are poisons and as a good pharmacist knows,it could be the end or rescue of a patient's life,without even considering the presenting illness.A pharmacist will not admit a patient with a nurse for treatment. Only doctors and nurses can write prescriptions. A pharmacist can offer a doctor better alternatives via superior knowledge not by ego.I repeat some doctors can embarass a pharmacist in terms of knowledge of drugs and formulations.


Roles vary. Stay in your (consulting)pharmacy, stay in your (consulting) laboratory, Lol.


Doctors will be in the consulting rooms or surgical theatres with their nurse colleagues and will seek your pharmacist input if necessary for the good of the patient.This obtains already.It's like any other workplace, the shortest route to social isolation at work is offering unsolicited advice. You be God.


Doctors have homes they go to after work as they know hospitals is not the beginning and end of their lives.They earn what they earn to take care of life and living just like others.

bizme:


This is a great development.

No one should waste time responding to anyone not okay with this development. Medical doctors are ordinary civil servants just like pharmacists and nurses and so on. They are employees just like these other professionals, and as employees it borders on arrogance and hubris to seek to determine the career direction and height of other members of other professionals. And as for those medics weeping that things are much better outside the country than in the country for them, they should take their leave and go. We will not miss them. Let us see whether they can do over there half of the messed up things they do here in Nigeria. News flash: it's not only doctors that things are better for abroad. As a private tutor in London almost then ten years ago I was earning as much as £30 per hour: in Nigeria you don't earn that even as a doctor. Neither is it only medical doctors that are leaving the country in droves. Engineers are leaving. Nurses are leaving. Pharmacists are leaving.... even jobless people are. So, you should imbibe some decorum and spare us the self-pity.

If anyone is not okay with the way things are, take your leave. Fact: we have more than ten medical doctors are willing and ready to fill up your post. In fact, at the moment we have too many jobless doctors going around doing private practice that fetch them about 50k per month. So, you intent on leaving I join you in hoping that your visa be granted soon, it will allow more grateful and younger medical doctors to have access to the job you do not appreciate.

This country has produced about 25,000 pharmacists since inception. Out of this, only about 14,000 pharmacists are currently registered and working in Nigeria. About 11,000 having either left the country or have decided to not practice as pharmacist. Out of the 14,000 registered pharmacists rendering services to over 180 million Nigerians, more than half of them are working in Lagos alone. (In fact, the whole 14,000 are not enough to service Lagos state.) What this means is that we have less than 7,000 pharmacists servicing all other states in Nigeria. A simple arithmetic will give you the ratio of population to a pharmacist in Nigeria (about 13,000 to 1 pharmacist); let us now compare this with the idea ratio. In other words, pharmacists are in a lot shorter supply than medical doctors. And we indeed have better reason to leave this country than many others. But many of us have decided to return and build this country, if we do not build our own country, no one will do it for us. And we will not stay in this country and watch and accommodate some arrogant persons seeking to decide how much we can achieve in our own profession.

The summary of the message is this: If anyone, medical doctor or pharmacist or carpenter, is not satisfied with the situation of things in Nigeria and is not ready and willing to endure and build this country with all other patient and well-meaning Nigerians, such individual should take his leave and stop constituting nuisance for everyone here. Take your certificates and licenses and go abroad. No one will prevent you from leaving. But in this Nigeria that we have here, every group of professionals has the right and must strife towards increasing specialization in order to bring the best out of each profession. A servant has no authority to stop the rising of another.

PS: Please, those reacting should not come up with the s.illy argument asking me to go and take a JAMB form to study medicine. Some of us hate medicine as a course because we find it too limiting especially for those greatly endowed in physical sciences.

I love your submission. This is it,but you don't need to hate to say your opinion.

Amarabae:
Just go, nobody will miss you . Stop making noise above leaving Nigeria

U too?, it's well with Naija jare

Lagos state has once again set the pace for positive development and growth in the health sector. Pharmacists in hospital practice who had gone through the West Africa post-graduate college of pharmacy as far back as 15 years ago and even more, finally have positions to occupy commensurate to their qualifications.

The Federal and other states should follow suit.

This is cheery news to all lovers of progress, and only the pained will seek to dictate regulations for a profession that is not theirs.

dokxavi:
Lol. Lol. Compete for treating cases? So funny.



What is this one spewing? (Somebody give me that meme).

Obviously, if he is a medical personnel,he has never worked in a hospital.Roles never coalesce,everybody on his lane.

A trained pharmacist will never accept a prescription from another pharmacist or medical laboratory scientist or physiotherapist or nurse,for instance.Drugs are poisons and as a good pharmacist knows,it could be the end or rescue of a patient's life,without even considering the presenting illness.A pharmacist will not admit a patient with a nurse for treatment. Only doctors and nurses can write prescriptions. A pharmacist can offer a doctor better alternatives via superior knowledge not by ego.I repeat some doctors can embarass a pharmacist in terms of knowledge of drugs and formulations.


Roles vary. Stay in your (consulting)pharmacy, stay in your (consulting) laboratory, Lol.


Doctors will be in the consulting rooms or surgical theatres with their nurse colleagues and will seek your pharmacist input if necessary for the good of the patient.This obtains already.It's like any other workplace, the shortest route to social isolation at work is offering unsolicited advice. You be God.


Doctors have homes they go to after work as they know hospitals is not the beginning and end of their lives.They earn what they earn to take care of life and living just like others.

You are ignorant and proud . It is very funny
Nurses,physiotherapists,psychologists, Nutritionists etc have clinics with caseloads which they manage independently in the UK US and elsewhere.
There are thousands of SPECIALIST nurse prescribers who see patients independently and issue prescriptions.


You stay in your little bubble of ignorance and think you know everything
fact is there will be Consultant Nurses,physios, Speech therapists,Ocupational therapists ,psychologists and so on in Nigeria and doctors cannot veto that. If they need medical advice they will go to a doctor or vice vrsa
Health care does not mean "doctor" there are several other clinicians who can solve problems without any input from a doctor

PharmAlfred:


Thank you for your question. This is why we should talk less, ask more questions and learn more. First, your observation about your pharmacist colleague is not true. He must have done a whole a lot in a space of 5-7years to earn that fellowship.

There are different specialties in the college. Your pharmacist colleague could have done the administrative programme. Pharmacists who work in the hospital, will do the clinical programme. And within the clinical programme, there are sub -specialties. So you see, not every consultant pharmacist will work in the hospital. My friend, just be a bit more open minded, you will be dazed by the quality of work some pharmacists are doing in our hospitals.

Again, to become a consultant means to know more in a given field or specialty. It requires acquiring advanced skills and competence. So anybody can be a consultant.
The argument becomes flawed when physicians lay claim to the sole right of being called consultants.

You can ask any other questions or concerns that you may have.

You very very correct, as my wife did same program for 3 years, after spending like 10yrs in clinical pharmacy

Welcome development.
Doctors are always paranoid over pharmacists in Nigeria, that's why they are fighting against that very versatile and prestigious profession but they will keep failing.
That's how they are trying to bully our nursing profession because it's mostly dominated by women,
Medlab, pharmacy guys will deal with them
.
They should come and start awarding nurses consultancy role.
Oriaku Amarachi
Consultant in pepper dem nursing.

.
But seriously, consultancy in pharmacy will be of great and positive benefit to the health sector.

I have laughed so much today!

Nigerian doctors can be ignorant sha! I know researchers (scientists and engineers) who receive so much grants for medical research without a medical degree or visiting the four walls of a hospital or interfacing with patients.

The world is evolving and everyone has a role to play!

I read a funny thread previously where doctors where asking other health professionals if they could use certain equipment or not. A young Physics professor will build medical diagnostics devices based on acoustic waves and Nigerian doctors should know anyone would be able to use it if trained properly (So, doctors are somewhat like technicians in other people's world).

So please shift abeg, the world does not revolve round you.

Advancement of human race is in all fields, arts and social science included.

Naikkie:
I have laughed so much today!

Nigerian doctors can be ignorant sha! I know researchers (scientists and engineers) who receive so much grants for medical research without a medical degree or visiting the four walls of a hospital or interfacing with patients.

The world is evolving and everyone has a role to play!

I read a funny thread previously where doctors where asking other health professionals if they could use certain equipment or not. A young Physics professor will build medical diagnostics devices based on acoustic waves and Nigerian doctors should know anyone would be able to use it if trained properly (So, doctors are somewhat like technicians in other people's world).

So please shift abeg, the world does not revolve round you.

Advancement of human race is in all fields, arts and social science included.

Doctors are not somewhat like technicians,doctors are technicians.

Eldorado14:


ooh...you have now accepted but you were there bringing out one silly scenario and deep down you,you knw what is obtainable according to "international best practices" you all av been screaming.
One question...if you knew this,why then are you people deceiving the public when you know the duties of a consultant pharmacists according to "international best practices"?

Another one...why do you REALLY want to stop this "international best practices" coming to play in the Nigeria health sector if you really want the GOOD OF THE PATIENT?

Oh, no!

[quote author=omojeesu post=67515810]Very soon this will happen:

A doctor prescribes then the consultant pharmacist says prescription is wrong or not good enough. She becomes teacher and reviewer of doctor's diagnosis determined prescription....you can guess the outcome.

You point to international best practice. When it comes to Nigeria it's another ball game. Our corruption and near insanity exploits the IBP for selfish reasons.


Satan wants to finish our health system![/quote
]stop assuming, wait until it happens

MrBigiman:
I weep for this Country. Consultancy for what?, for getting old and close to retirement. Patients will be further Decieved and will die like fowls. A Pharmacist sees a naïve patients, instead of claiming to be a pharmacist, will say I am a consultant, the gullible patient, thinking he means medical specialist may end that session is morbidity or mortality. Shame really, but we are in a confirmed shit hole though.

Consultancy is an English word, I don't want to school you further, please do more research on the various meanings of the word consultant... Don't talk like an illiterate

[quote author=Ang88 post=67529087][/quote]
Collaboration is the word, no one is seen as a know it all, Health care shouldnt be left in the hands of doctors only, infact they won't be able to pull it off alone, patients sadly would be at the recieving end, lots of minute medication/medical errors, inadequate SOPS have sent many to their early grave in this part of the world.

dokxavi:
Lol. Lol. Compete for treating cases? So funny.



What is this one spewing? (Somebody give me that meme).

Obviously, if he is a medical personnel,he has never worked in a hospital.Roles never coalesce,everybody on his lane.

A trained pharmacist will never accept a prescription from another pharmacist or medical laboratory scientist or physiotherapist or nurse,for instance.Drugs are poisons and as a good pharmacist knows,it could be the end or rescue of a patient's life,without even considering the presenting illness.A pharmacist will not admit a patient with a nurse for treatment. Only doctors and nurses can write prescriptions. A pharmacist can offer a doctor better alternatives via superior knowledge not by ego.I repeat some doctors can embarass a pharmacist in terms of knowledge of drugs and formulations.


Roles vary. Stay in your (consulting)pharmacy, stay in your (consulting) laboratory, Lol.


Doctors will be in the consulting rooms or surgical theatres with their nurse colleagues and will seek your pharmacist input if necessary for the good of the patient.This obtains already.It's like any other workplace, the shortest route to social isolation at work is offering unsolicited advice. You be God.


Doctors have homes they go to after work as they know hospitals is not the beginning and end of their lives.They earn what they earn to take care of life and living just like others.

I Beg to differ, when it comes to drugs, regimen, dose, interactions, etc, doctors have a myopic knowledge, infact the reverse is the case, many doctors have been embarrassed, they all run to take shelter in their clinical meetings.... Only humble and exposed doctors who are actually smart keep pharmacists and med lab scientist as close friends with great relationship, because they know they can confirm stuffs, discuss, argue objectively without hate or strife from these other professional friends whenever the need arise

dokxavi:


I love your submission. This is it,but you don't need to hate to say your opinion.

Pardon my anger. The 'hate of medicine' used in my post isn't meant to equate 'hate of medical doctors'. It's more like saying, "I hate cooking", but then I love food and I can't live without eating food which is a product of the very thing I hate. That is, cooking. The same way I engage the services of private medical consultants to handle issues in my family (medical consultants in the public setting are simply a case, they are more human in private setting). The same way I hate medicine as a course of study and as a career path. Or differently phrased, I hate myself studying medicine or pursuing a career as a medic, simply because by so doing I would be jettisoning something that I like infinitely more than medicine--pharmacy with all its accommodation of physical and basic sciences.

Jman06:
A pharmacist can't take orders from physicians on drug related matters rather a physician should take orders from pharmacists on ISSUES RELATING TO DRUS AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. That's international best practices!

The way we are going about this, our patients would bear the brunt, it's a pity because of our environment, our laws, even our regulatory bodies have contributed one way or another to these brouhaha... Health care should be seen as a collaborative effort, it's a pity doctors are fighting Pharmacists, Nurses, MED LAB scientists and vice versa... Wish the younger generation stops all these fightings, position juggling, hatred and work together to build a better Health system in Nigeria for Nigerians. Thanks.. Pharm Sam

phaamsaam:

The way we are going about this, our patients would bear the brunt, it's a pity because of our environment, our laws, even our regulatory bodies have contributed one way or another to these brouhaha... Health care should be seen as a collaborative effort, it's a pity doctors are fighting Pharmacists, Nurses, MED LAB scientists and vice versa... Wish the younger generation stops all these fightings, position juggling, hatred and work together to build a better Health system in Nigeria for Nigerians. Thanks.. Pharm Sam

Honestly, I hope they stop the unnecessary fights. But if they fail to stop, then they should be ready to start receiving a dose of their own medicine from other professionals in the healthcare team.

I think unlike those of us in Pharmacy who are taught to respect other healthcare professionals, Nigerian medical doctors obviously do not have such training. Rather they are trained to be disrespectful to others. Over the years, pharmacists have been keeping quiet and taking all their rubbish. That our quietude has been misconstrued for cowardice by the physicians, hence we have got to fight now!

All we are saying is that all healthcare professionals should be allowed to grow and not suppressed by the medical doctors. That is why JOHESU is on strike.

It is heart breaking to me when i see people reason this way.
What is housemanship/Internship after acquiring a medical degree?
You Think the nurses go there to play. You think it is only doctors that read, others go there to count patients abi?
Liberate other professionals and give them equal opportunities. Residency program for pharmacist too to upgrade is not a bad idea. It is nice to see you stating that other pharmacist outside have to acquire more qualification before they can acquire the consultancy title. Check and you will find out many of these professionals already have higher degrees which doctors have blocked and made irrelevant in civil service. Only their residency program which is totally free and exclusive to them counts.

MrBigiman:


The Consultant Pharmacist abroad is not the same in Nigeria. If u get to level 15, u automatically are given consultant pharmacist with the new Memo shown with proof. Consultant pharmacist in the UK specialize in a particular branch, earn a PHD there and become advocates and guard of safe standards in that aspect eg Oncology. So a hard working 32yrs old can become a Consultant. The one here is saying if u get old in the service and attain level 17 then u are a full Consultant pharmacist, do they look the same. What about internship after BSC Nursing is that best international practice too. Very big shame.

Jman06:
Honestly, I hope they stop the unnecessary fights. But if they fail to stop, then they should be ready to start receiving a dose of their own medicine from other professionals in the healthcare team.

I think unlike those of us in Pharmacy who are taught to respect other healthcare professionals, Nigerian medical doctors obviously do not have such training. Rather they are trained to be disrespectful to others. Over the years, pharmacists have been keeping quiet and taking all their rubbish. That our quietude has been misconstrued for cowardice by the physicians, hence we have got to fight now!

All we are saying is that all healthcare professionals should be allowed to grow and not suppressed by the medical doctors. That is why JOHESU is on strike.

Some people always spew nonsense thinking they are making sense.. Be ready, keep fighting them. funny enough, those doctors will not come to ur pharmacy to implore you to treat them but u will always meet them to treat u, by that time u will know who is & should be respected. ganging up against a particular group isn't an assurance of victory but a hope of the timid.

Instead of thinking of how to create peaceful environment conducive enough for everyone in the hospital u are here wallowing in self pity.

Doctors are not the problem of the health sector. JOHESU isn't either. the problem of the health sector is greed borned of out of hatred for doctors.

Freddonance:





Some people always spew nonsense thinking they are making sense.. Be ready, keep fighting them. funny enough, those doctors will not come to ur pharmacy to implore you to treat them but u will always meet them to treat u, by that time u will know who is & should be respected. ganging up against a particular group isn't an assurance of victory but a hope of the timid.

Instead of thinking of how to create peaceful environment conducive enough for everyone in the hospital u are here wallowing in self pity.

Doctors are not the problem of the health sector. JOHESU isn't either. the problem of the health sector is greed borned of out of hatred for doctors.

I don't see medical doctors! Instead, they look for me whenever they need drugs. Even my siblings get the best of healthcare from me whenever they are sick. Take note!

Medical doctors are the architect of the professional rivalry in the healthcare system. It's only in Nigeria that a doctor would want to open a pharmacy without employing a superintendent pharmacist, they would train quacks as nurses and call them "auxiliary", they would employ a science lab technologist as medical lab scientist. At the end of the day, they would send many innocent nigerians to their early graves. So, my friend, if you want peace to reign in the health sector, stop usurping other people's roles.

So, it actually pains you when the heat is directed at you.
Stop giving others what you cannot take if you really desire peace. Otherwise, prepare to have a dose of your own medicine.

aribisala0:
The only way a doctor can maintain an edge over others is to upgrade.MBBS alone won't do it .You must have SKILLS that other do not have.

Treating chronic conditions like epilepsy, asthma , High BP, are areas that increasingly other professional will compete for.
Same for acute conditions like malaria. With modern technology this will only intensify

Yes there is a turf war goin on. The way to fight is is not by bluff and bullying but to convince the market.
I do not see much future for the MBBS only cadre because many others can do what they do cheaper.

A doctor will always have his place.....
The edge is simply the doctor knows something about everything.....
Most other allied professionals have restricted knowledge as it pertains medicine...
No patient comes to the hospital complaining of hypertension or malaria or asthma....
A symptom or sign brought them.....
Headache could be anything.....
So also is breathlessness or fever....
It would be foolish to think all fever is malaria....
Or to think all epigastric pain is due to peptic ulcer....
That is why in all acute condition, a patient must be refered to the doctor....
That ability to conceptualize clinical scenario and nip it to specific disease condition is what defines a medical doctor....
Something even a robot or AI can't do....
I agree chronic medical condition can be refered to other disciplines.....
I even believe other allied professionals will do a better job at long term care of patients with chronic medical conditions than doctors.......
Why should a doctor bother himself with a patient with long term stroke....
He should see his physiotherapist, stroke specialist nurse, speech n language therapist n dietician if he's got problem with swallowing.....
Such patient should only be refered back to the clinician if he's got an acute on chronic medical condition....

Now as per naija health matter....
Naija doctors are just being blinded by extreme n unnecessary ego problem.....
Nigerian doctors need help to carry out their function satisfactorily.....
They just don't know it.....
I'll write a detailed exposition on this matter sometime later....

Amarabae:
Welcome development.
Doctors are always paranoid over pharmacists in Nigeria, that's why they are fighting against that very versatile and prestigious profession but they will keep failing.
That's how they are trying to bully our nursing profession because it's mostly dominated by women,
Medlab, pharmacy guys will deal with them
.
They should come and start awarding nurses consultancy role.
Oriaku Amarachi
Consultant in pepper dem nursing.

.
But seriously, consultancy in pharmacy will be of great and positive benefit to the health sector.

I'm a doctor....
But seriously I don't see anything wrong in consultancy position in other professions....
In UK there's even consultant clinical physiologist in the hospital....

My fear is other profession desire it just because of the prestige of being called a consultant not the responsibility attached to it ...
Here in UK, consultants work like hell, they see their patients everyday....
They are always on ground n it's important u make urself visible at all times....
Except if u are off duty....
They even teach junior doctors n present topics....
Specialist nurses both in hospital n in the community are also hardworking n can be counted on to contribute to patient's care if need be.....
They do a lot for patient's with chronic medical conditions....
If consultants n specialists in whatever profession in naija are forced to work in exact manner, I doubt if those position will be desirable....
Although it will really go a long way to help patients...

SIRTee15:


I'm a doctor....
But seriously I don't see anything wrong in consultancy position in other professions....
In UK there's even consultant clinical physiologist in the hospital....

My fear is other profession desire it just because of the prestige of being called a consultant not the responsibility attached to it ...
Here in UK, consultants work like hell, they see their patients everyday....
They are always on ground n it's important u make urself visible at all times....
Except if u are off duty....
They even teach junior doctors n present topics....
Specialist nurses both in hospital n in the community are also hardworking n can be counted on to contribute to patient's care if need be.....
They do a lot for patient's with chronic medical conditions....
If consultants n specialists in whatever profession in naija are forced to work in exact manner, I doubt if those position will be desirable....
Although it will really go a long way to help patients...

confirm...Mrbigiman, come and see ur fellow doc..he has confirmed that consultant pharmacist and other consultants WORK IN THE HOSPITAL.
Like I said, what you know best in doing is deceiving the public instead of improving ursef.

Back to you Sirtee, do not worry yourself on the fact that other consultant would not like to work..i believe there will be a strict rule and regulation for all to follow...leave it for the professional bodies in charge.

Eldorado14:


confirm...Mrbigiman, come and see ur fellow doc..he has confirmed that consultant pharmacist and other consultants WORK IN THE HOSPITAL.
Like I said, what you know best in doing is deceiving the public instead of improving ursef.

Back to you Sirtee, do not worry yourself on the fact that other consultant would not like to work..i believe there will be a strict rule and regulation for all to follow...leave it for the professional bodies in charge.

SIRTee15, with all due respect, has said his own. His assertion did not negate my point. Consultancy as Johesu is fighting for is not the same as is internationally obtainable. For example if he really is in the UK, he knows that Radiologist approve radiological investigations and radiographers are ordered to carry it out at the radiologists approval. If it's not approved the FY2 doctors which I get he is can walk up to the radiologist and impress on him why the test should be done. Radiographers in Nigeria say they are Autonomous. If not for the Police, they last year entered hospitals and harrased Doctors doing sonography.

Lets call a spade a spade.

MrBigiman:


SIRTee15, with all due respect, has said his own. His assertion did not negate my point. Consultancy as Johesu is fighting for is not the same as is internationally obtainable. For example if he really is in the UK, he knows that Radiologist approve radiological investigations and radiographers are ordered to carry it out at the radiologists approval. If it's not approved the FY2 doctors which I get he is can walk up to the radiologist and impress on him why the test should be done. Radiographers in Nigeria say they are Autonomous. If not for the Police, they last year entered hospitals and harrased Doctors doing sonography.

Lets call a spade a spade.

First I'm not F2....
Foreign trained doctors don't join the medical cadre at foundation level, except u are yet to complete ur housemanship from ur home country.....
I didn't fully grasp ur analogy but u don't need radiologist approval to get basic investigation done....
U talk to the radiologist in cases of MRI, urgent CT, intervention radiology or u need him to report an x-ray....
Why do u need a radiologist approval to order CXR....
just send the form to the x-ray department n the radiographer gets it done... .
I'm sure u don't submit routine x-ray forms to radiologist in nigeria.....

Here I know radiographers report x-ray and they do have consultant radiographers....
I see their names on CXR report quite often without any radiologist addendum....
Sincerely, I'm not really sure to what extent is their scope of work n how much autonomy they have.....
The other day, I met a naija female radiographer in the dept n we spoke.....
She told me they have an independent dept n her HOD is a radiographer. I can't really verify such claim but it's irrelevant anyway....
NHS has a different structure when compared to naija hospitals.....
Managers run n control things here not health professionals, so the post of HOD or whatever doesn't hold much power when compared to naija.....
Everybody including consultants are answerable to managers.....
But one thing I know is radiographers in uk are more engaged when it comes to clinical duties...
They even perform echocardiography which I initially thought was exclusive to cardiologist....

SIRTee15:


First I'm not F2....
Foreign trained doctors don't join the medical cadre at foundation level, except u are yet to complete ur housemanship from ur home country.....
I didn't fully grasp ur analogy but u don't need radiologist approval to get basic investigation done....
U talk to the radiologist in cases of MRI, urgent CT, intervention radiology or u need him to report an x-ray....
Why do u need a radiologist approval to order CXR....
just send the form to the x-ray department n the radiographer gets it done... .
I'm sure u don't submit routine x-ray forms to radiologist in nigeria.....

Here I know radiographers report x-ray and they do have consultant radiographers....
I see their names on CXR report quite often without any radiologist addendum....
Sincerely, I'm not really sure to what extent is their scope of work n how much autonomy they have.....
The other day, I met a naija female radiographer in the dept n we spoke.....
She told me they have an independent dept n her HOD is a radiographer. I can't really verify such claim but it's irrelevant anyway....
NHS has a different structure when compared to naija hospitals.....
Managers run n control things here not health professionals, so the post of HOD or whatever doesn't hold much power when compared to naija.....
Everybody including consultants are answerable to managers.....
But one thing I know is radiographers in uk are more engaged when it comes to clinical duties...
They even perform echocardiography which I initially thought was exclusive to cardiologist....

Sirtee,
Well sir...you are well exposed, we need your type at the NMA leadership who will not be EGOSTIC and NON-CHALLLANT like the ones will have here parading themselves as doctors.

I also like the fact that you pionted out that in the UK that the managers in the hospital are not even medical docs or any health worker.Maybe you need to enligtened ur fellow docs here. eg Mrbigiman

Eldorado14:


Sirtee,
Well sir...you are well exposed, we need your type at the NMA leadership who will not be EGOSTIC and NON-CHALLLANT like the ones will have here parading themselves as doctors.

I also like the fact that you pionted out that in the UK that the managers in the hospital are not even medical docs or any health worker.Maybe you need to enligtened ur fellow docs here. eg Mrbigiman

SirTee15 is not a Medical Doctor but an imposter that life will fish out in due time. He shot himself on the foot big time by moving purulent stuff and skewing the narrative. Judgement day awaits all Johesu and Johesu sympahtizer who distort a clear narrative. Johesu will be proscribed and their leaders sent on exile like Nnamdi Kanu. Mark my words and know that u heard it exclusively first.

Mr Bigiman.

MrBigiman:


SirTee15 is not a Medical Doctor but an imposter that life will fish out in due time. He shot himself on the foot big time by moving purulent stuff and skewing the narrative. Judgement day awaits all Johesu and Johesu sympahtizer who distort a clear narrative. Johesu will be proscribed and their leaders sent on exile like Nnamdi Kanu. Mark my words and know that u heard it exclusively first.

Mr Bigiman.

your case is pathetic!

aribisala0:
The only way a doctor can maintain an edge over others is to upgrade.MBBS alone won't do it .You must have SKILLS that other do not have.

Treating chronic conditions like epilepsy, asthma , High BP, are areas that increasingly other professional will compete for.
Same for acute conditions like malaria. With modern technology this will only intensify

Yes there is a turf war goin on. The way to fight is is not by bluff and bullying but to convince the market.
I do not see much future for the MBBS only cadre because many others can do what they do cheaper.

Thats why drs in the western world go for residency immediately they are done with MBBCh/MBBS. Pharmacists are handling some of these chronic ailments as they should be managed. Its up to the drs now to handle more complicated or specialist cases.
Pharmacy residency is also something doctors are fighting so hard in nigeria just like the Pharm. D degree and it shouldnt be so. The plan has been drawn long time ago as far back as 1996 when Abacha was the head of state and facilities like JUTH, ABUTH, LASUTH, LUTH, UCH, UDUTH, UMTH, UNTH and so many other tertiary hospitals are ready to commence the training but for setbacks form the forum of CMDs who of course are medical doctors. Just imagine what the net benefits will be to our health care system and even our medical colleagues.
The health field is continously evolving and physicians must accept the fact that the dispensers of yesterday are today's clinicians...Governments and policy makers in the west know this and it's the reason why there can be no ward rounds without the pharmacists being part of the team.