Battle of supremacy.who is to be blamed for the brouhaha. is it the so called hospitals assistant aides or the doctorsthat are claming boss over other medical profession.The face out btw this two entities only shows how selfish and inhuman we are in africa ,especially Nigeria

asuustrike2009:

1.salary and grade disparity

Now, let's examine this.

Comparing grade levels and the different salary schemes of doctors and health workers, we will see thus:

GRADE LEVEL 10 - CONMESS 01 - CONHESS 09
GRADE LEVEL 12 - CONMESS 02 - CONHESS 10
GRADE LEVEL 13 - CONMESS 03 - CONHESS 11
GRADE LEVEL 14 - CONMESS 04 - CONHESS 12
GRADE LEVEL 15 - CONMESS 05 - CONHESS 13
GRADE LEVEL 16 - CONMESS 06 - CONHESS 14
GRADE LEVEL 17 - CONMESS 07 - CONHESS 15

A fresh doctor graduate doing his housemanship AND an allied health professional fresh from school doing his internship are both employed on Grade Level 10. This is equivalent to CONMESS 01 for the doctor and CONHESS 09 the health professional.

After that, they both move to Grade Level 12.
Note that there is no Grade Level 11 in the Nigerian Civil Service.
So this Grade Level 12 is naturally equivalent to CONMESS 02 for the doctor and CONHESS 10 for the health professional.

Now, about 5 to 6 years ago, JOHESU went on strike for increased payment and went to court and insisted that since non-health Civil Servants were skipping or jumping Grade Level 11, that they themselves should be allowed to skip CONHESS 10 to CONHESS 11. Making reference to the table above, this means that in jumping from CONHESS 09 to CONHESS 11, a JOHESU person jumps from Grade Level 10 to Grade Level 13.
Doctors kicked against this and said it was illegal and not obtainable in the civil service. But they called doctors all sorts of names.
In the end, the court granted them the skipping they were asking for.

So for a JOHESU person, after CONHESS 09, instead of moving to CONHESS 10, he moves straight to CONHESS 11(Grade Level 13) while the doctor with whom he is supposed to be on the same grade level remains at CONMESS 02(Grade Level 12).

This was what made medical doctors to also go on their own STRIKE about 2 years later and told the FG, that since JOHESU was skipping CONHESS 10, that doctors should be allowed to skip CONMESS 02 to CONMESS 03 so as to equalize the civil service grade level with JOHESU. After several to and fro with the government and several strikes by the doctors, the FG finally granted them to be skipping CONMESS 02 to CONMESS 03.

This is what JOHESU saw and now they are agitating again for increased pay saying they are being cheated. They are just mentioning salary increase now because there is no other loophole in the civil service grade level that they can manipulate.

The only time doctors warned the FG against complying with their agitation about salary increase was when they wanted to skip CONHESS 10. Since then, as far as salary is concerned, the only thing that doctors have always said is that if JOHESU's salaries are increased, then doctors' salaries have to be increased as well.

Ask them if any of the above is false.
Ask them if there is something I said up there that is a lie.

Then come back and tell me how doctors are being unfair to them.

nobilis:


Now, let's examine this.

Comparing grade levels and the different salary schemes of doctors and health workers, we will see thus:

GRADE LEVEL 10 - CONMESS 01 - CONHESS 09
GRADE LEVEL 12 - CONMESS 02 - CONHESS 10
GRADE LEVEL 13 - CONMESS 03 - CONHESS 11
GRADE LEVEL 14 - CONMESS 04 - CONHESS 12
GRADE LEVEL 15 - CONMESS 05 - CONHESS 13
GRADE LEVEL 16 - CONMESS 06 - CONHESS 14
GRADE LEVEL 17 - CONMESS 07 - CONHESS 15

A fresh doctor graduate doing his housemanship AND an allied health professional fresh from school doing his internship are both employed on Grade Level 10. This is equivalent to CONMESS 01 for the doctor and CONHESS 09 the health professional.

After that, they both move to Grade Level 12.
Note that there is no Grade Level 11 in the Nigerian Civil Service.
So this Grade Level 12 is naturally equivalent to CONMESS 02 for the doctor and CONHESS 10 for the health professional.

Now, about 5 to 6 years ago, JOHESU went on strike for increased payment and went to court and insisted that since non-health Civil Servants were skipping or jumping Grade Level 11, that they themselves should be allowed to skip CONHESS 10 to CONHESS 11. Making reference to the table above, this means that in jumping from CONHESS 09 to CONHESS 11, a JOHESU person jumps from Grade Level 10 to Grade Level 13.
Doctors kicked against this and said it was illegal and not obtainable in the civil service. But they called doctors all sorts of names.
In the end, the court granted them the skipping they were asking for.

So for a JOHESU person, after CONHESS 09, instead of moving to CONHESS 10, he moves straight to CONHESS 11(Grade Level 13) while the doctor with whom he is supposed to be on the same grade level remains at CONMESS 02(Grade Level 12).

This was what made medical doctors to also go on their own STRIKE about 2 years later and told the FG, that since JOHESU was skipping CONHESS 10, that doctors should be allowed to skip CONMESS 02 to CONMESS 03 so as to equalize the civil service grade level with JOHESU. After several to and fro with the government and several strikes by the doctors, the FG finally granted them to be skipping CONMESS 02 to CONMESS 03.

This is what JOHESU saw and now they are agitating again for increased pay saying they are being cheated. They are just mentioning salary increase now because there is no other loophole in the civil service grade level that they can manipulate.

The only time doctors warned the FG against complying with their agitation about salary increase was when they wanted to skip CONHESS 10. Since then, as far as salary is concerned, the only thing that doctors have always said is that if JOHESU's salaries are increased, then doctors' salaries have to be increased as well.

Ask them if any of the above is false.
Ask them if there is something I said up there that is a lie.

Then come back and tell me how doctors are being unfair to them.

Now tell if this disparity isn't obvious.

nobilis:


Now, let's examine this.

Comparing grade levels and the different salary schemes of doctors and health workers, we will see thus:

GRADE LEVEL 10 - CONMESS 01 - CONHESS 09
GRADE LEVEL 12 - CONMESS 02 - CONHESS 10
GRADE LEVEL 13 - CONMESS 03 - CONHESS 11
GRADE LEVEL 14 - CONMESS 04 - CONHESS 12
GRADE LEVEL 15 - CONMESS 05 - CONHESS 13
GRADE LEVEL 16 - CONMESS 06 - CONHESS 14
GRADE LEVEL 17 - CONMESS 07 - CONHESS 15

A fresh doctor graduate doing his housemanship AND an allied health professional fresh from school doing his internship are both employed on Grade Level 10. This is equivalent to CONMESS 01 for the doctor and CONHESS 09 the health professional.

After that, they both move to Grade Level 12.
Note that there is no Grade Level 11 in the Nigerian Civil Service.
So this Grade Level 12 is naturally equivalent to CONMESS 02 for the doctor and CONHESS 10 for the health professional.

Now, about 5 to 6 years ago, JOHESU went on strike for increased payment and went to court and insisted that since non-health Civil Servants were skipping or jumping Grade Level 11, that they themselves should be allowed to skip CONHESS 10 to CONHESS 11. Making reference to the table above, this means that in jumping from CONHESS 09 to CONHESS 11, a JOHESU person jumps from Grade Level 10 to Grade Level 13.
Doctors kicked against this and said it was illegal and not obtainable in the civil service. But they called doctors all sorts of names.
In the end, the court granted them the skipping they were asking for.

So for a JOHESU person, after CONHESS 09, instead of moving to CONHESS 10, he moves straight to CONHESS 11(Grade Level 13) while the doctor with whom he is supposed to be on the same grade level remains at CONMESS 02(Grade Level 12).

This was what made medical doctors to also go on their own STRIKE about 2 years later and told the FG, that since JOHESU was skipping CONHESS 10, that doctors should be allowed to skip CONMESS 02 to CONMESS 03 so as to equalize the civil service grade level with JOHESU. After several to and fro with the government and several strikes by the doctors, the FG finally granted them to be skipping CONMESS 02 to CONMESS 03.

This is what JOHESU saw and now they are agitating again for increased pay saying they are being cheated. They are just mentioning salary increase now because there is no other loophole in the civil service grade level that they can manipulate.

The only time doctors warned the FG against complying with their agitation about salary increase was when they wanted to skip CONHESS 10. Since then, as far as salary is concerned, the only thing that doctors have always said is that if JOHESU's salaries are increased, then doctors' salaries have to be increased as well.

Ask them if any of the above is false.
Ask them if there is something I said up there that is a lie.

Then come back and tell me how doctors are being unfair to them.

Now tell if there is no disparity here in the picture below
Secondly why NMA don't want other health workers to climb? Someone gave an unbiased analysis why NMA is at log with Johesu.

asuustrike2009:

Now tell if there is no disparity here in the picture below
Secondly why NMA don't want other health workers to climb? Someone gave an unbiased analysis why NMA is at log with Johesu.

Hahahahahahahahahaha.
This is extremely funny.

I can't believe that I just spent my time and energy trying to explain something to you and you still chose to believe propaganda.
It is obvious that Nigerians deserve these JOHESU people and their lies.

The agency that is in charge of paying salaries of Nigerians in the federal Civil service is the National Salaries, Income and Wages Commission.
At least, if you're really interested in finding out the truth, all it would have taken you is to go to the website of the Commission to find out the actual salaries these two groups of people are being paid, or at least Google CONHESS and CONMESS Salary Scales. They are not hidden. They are all over the internet. If you search for the actual salaries, you will find it and do the comparison yourself. I didn't want to post the actual salaries here because I expected you to do that one by yourself and because I didn't want it to look like I doctored the figures. But obviously you're too lazy to do your own research by yourself. And you're choosing to believe the erroneous figures that JOHESU fed to TVC News.


I thought that in trying to reason with you on this issue, you would base your arguments on facts but I have seen that you're choosing to base your opinions on propaganda to further mislead people.

Where is the disparity you're talking about?
I spent time explaining this thing to you.
During internship, everybody is on GL 10.
After internship, the next step is GL12. About half a decade ago, JOHESU got a court ruling that allowed them to skip to GL13 while doctors remained on GL12. This made doctors to go on strike and ask that they should allowed to skip to GL13 too. The FG finally agreed that doctors should skip to GL13.
JOHESU saw this and now, they are asking for another salary increase and they are calling it disparity.
So where did the disparity come from?
Or are you saying that while JOHESU people skip to GL13 after internship, that doctors should not be allowed to skip to GL13 too after housemanship?
Is that what you're saying?

The FG is not using a new salary scale to pay doctors. It is the same salary scale it has been using for close to 10 years now. It's not as if the FG just manufactured a new salary structure. Yet JOHESU has not complained of disparity till now because they are just looking for a way to force the FG to increase their salaries and they don't mind doing that by feeding the public with lies and sadly, the Nigerian public believes them.
All the while they were going on strike in the last 10 years, they never talked about "disparity" until because that's the only propaganda tool they have. Or did the disparity just materialize overnight?

If you actually want to know the truth, do your research and find out what these actual salaries are because THOSE FIGURES YOU POSTED ARE TOTALLY FALSE.

Or are you saying that doctors and non-doctors should be paid the same thing?
Because a lawyer and a court clerk are paid the same thing, right?
Or because a lecturer and graduate assistant are paid the same thing, right?
Or because an engineer and a technician are paid the same thing, right?

Secondly, when you say doctors don't want other health workers to climb, I want to know, where exactly are they climbing to? Explain what you mean by that?
Or you still want to toe the path of lies and propaganda.
If that's what you want to do, if you just want to base your arguments on the lies you and JOHESU people feed the public, then please, don't bother quoting me again.

nobilis:


Hahahahahahahahahaha.
This is extremely funny.

I can't believe that I just spent my time and energy trying to explain something to you and you still chose to believe propaganda.
It is obvious that Nigerians deserve these JOHESU people and their lies.

The agency that is in charge of paying salaries of Nigerians in the federal Civil service is the National Salaries, Income and Wages Commission.
At least, if you're really interested in finding out the truth, all it would have taken you is to go to the website of the Commission to find out the actual salaries these two groups of people are being paid, or at least Google CONHESS and CONMESS Salary Scales. They are not hidden. They are all over the internet. If you search for the actual salaries, you will find it and do the comparison yourself. I didn't want to post the actual salaries here because I expected you to do that one by yourself and because I didn't want it to look like I doctored the figures. But obviously you're too lazy to do your own research by yourself. And you're choosing to believe the erroneous figures that JOHESU fed to TVC News.


I thought that in trying to reason with you on this issue, you would base your arguments on facts but I have seen that you're choosing to base your opinions on propaganda to further mislead people.

Where is the disparity you're talking about?
I spent time explaining this thing to you.
During internship, everybody is on GL 10.
After internship, the next step is GL12. About half a decade ago, JOHESU got a court ruling that allowed them to skip to GL13 while doctors remained on GL12. This made doctors to go on strike and ask that they should allowed to skip to GL13 too. The FG finally agreed that doctors should skip to GL13.
JOHESU saw this and now, they are asking for another salary increase and they are calling it disparity.
So where did the disparity come from?
Or are you saying that while JOHESU people skip to GL13 after internship, that doctors should not be allowed to skip to GL13 too after housemanship?
Is that what you're saying?

The FG is not using a new salary scale to pay doctors. It is the same salary scale it has been using for close to 10 years now. It's not as if the FG just manufactured a new salary structure. Yet JOHESU has not complained of disparity till now because they are just looking for a way to force the FG to increase their salaries and they don't mind doing that by feeding the public with lies and sadly, the Nigerian public believes them.
All the while they were going on strike in the last 10 years, they never talked about "disparity" until because that's the only propaganda tool they have. Or did the disparity just materialize overnight?

If you actually want to know the truth, do your research and find out what these actual salaries are because THOSE FIGURES YOU POSTED ARE TOTALLY FALSE.

Or are you saying that doctors and non-doctors should be paid the same thing?
Because a lawyer and a court clerk are paid the same thing, right?
Or because a lecturer and graduate assistant are paid the same thing, right?
Or because an engineer and a technician are paid the same thing, right?

Secondly, when you say doctors don't want other health workers to climb, I want to know, where exactly are they climbing to? Explain what you mean by that?
Or you still want to toe the path of lies and propaganda.
If that's what you want to do, if you just want to base your arguments on the lies you and JOHESU people feed the public, then please, don't bother quoting me again.

Am sure you didn't read other issues raised you centre on salary alone .There were other issues raised why didn't you respond to those one why centre on salary?

asuustrike2009:

Am sure you didn't read other issues raised you centre on salary alone .There were other issues raised why didn't you respond to those one why centre on salary?

Oga sir,
I remember I told you to list ALL the ways that doctors were being unfair to JOHESU.
And the only thing you mentioned was "salary and grade disparity" and that is why I focused on that.

I am waiting for you to list your other points.

Anyone you mention, I'm here to present you with accurate facts just like I have presented you with accurate facts regarding the issue of "salaries and grade disparity" that you mentioned.

nobilis:


Oga sir,
I remember I told you to list ALL the ways that doctors were being unfair to JOHESU.
And the only thing you mentioned was "salary and grade disparity" and that is why I focused on that.

I am waiting for you to list your other points.

Anyone you mention, I'm here to present you with accurate facts just like I have presented you with accurate facts regarding the issue of "salaries and grade disparity" that you mentioned.

OK. You were able to explain in detail and sound convincing but there is another issue they raised. This has to do with health worker having the title consultant,why can't they attain that status at there should be job description?

This is actually false
A fresh graduate of nursing enter at GRADE LEVEL 8 - CONHESS 7
While a fresh graduate of other health workers doing their internship enter at GRADE LEVEL 9 - CONHESS 8.
So what u are saying is false. Make accurate findings bf misleading people

Now, let's examine this.

Comparing grade levels and the different salary schemes of doctors and health workers, we will see thus:

GRADE LEVEL 10 - CONMESS 01 - CONHESS 09
GRADE LEVEL 12 - CONMESS 02 - CONHESS 10
GRADE LEVEL 13 - CONMESS 03 - CONHESS 11
GRADE LEVEL 14 - CONMESS 04 - CONHESS 12
GRADE LEVEL 15 - CONMESS 05 - CONHESS 13
GRADE LEVEL 16 - CONMESS 06 - CONHESS 14
GRADE LEVEL 17 - CONMESS 07 - CONHESS 15

A fresh doctor graduate doing his housemanship AND an allied health professional fresh from school doing his internship are both employed on Grade Level 10. This is equivalent to CONMESS 01 for the doctor and CONHESS 09 the health professional.

After that, they both move to Grade Level 12.
Note that there is no Grade Level 11 in the Nigerian Civil Service.
So this Grade Level 12 is naturally equivalent to CONMESS 02 for the doctor and CONHESS 10 for the health professional.

Now, about 5 to 6 years ago, JOHESU went on strike for increased payment and went to court and insisted that since non-health Civil Servants were skipping or jumping Grade Level 11, that they themselves should be allowed to skip CONHESS 10 to CONHESS 11. Making reference to the table above, this means that in jumping from CONHESS 09 to CONHESS 11, a JOHESU person jumps from Grade Level 10 to Grade Level 13.
Doctors kicked against this and said it was illegal and not obtainable in the civil service. But they called doctors all sorts of names.
In the end, the court granted them the skipping they were asking for.

So for a JOHESU person, after CONHESS 09, instead of moving to CONHESS 10, he moves straight to CONHESS 11(Grade Level 13) while the doctor with whom he is supposed to be on the same grade level remains at CONMESS 02(Grade Level 12).

This was what made medical doctors to also go on their own STRIKE about 2 years later and told the FG, that since JOHESU was skipping CONHESS 10, that doctors should be allowed to skip CONMESS 02 to CONMESS 03 so as to equalize the civil service grade level with JOHESU. After several to and fro with the government and several strikes by the doctors, the FG finally granted them to be skipping CONMESS 02 to CONMESS 03.

This is what JOHESU saw and now they are agitating again for increased pay saying they are being cheated. They are just mentioning salary increase now because there is no other loophole in the civil service grade level that they can manipulate.

The only time doctors warned the FG against complying with their agitation about salary increase was when they wanted to skip CONHESS 10. Since then, as far as salary is concerned, the only thing that doctors have always said is that if JOHESU's salaries are increased, then doctors' salaries have to be increased as well.

Ask them if any of the above is false.
Ask them if there is something I said up there that is a lie.

Then come back and tell me how doctors are being unfair to them.

[/quote]

And FYI, d doctors are planning to go on strike after Friday, June 1st.
Let's see wat the minister would do about dat

At this point in this JOHESU strike, i wish to ask NMA/FG/FMoH the following questions and i wish to have answers to them. So many things looks so confusing and they are looking like children playing with sand:

1. NMA and some Doctors initially claims that Doctors are not on strike and work is going on without any hitch. Infact, that they have been trained to handle all including mopping of the hospital floor, cleaning the toilets, etc. So,
a. Why are some groups saying Nigerians are dying that JOHESU should resume?
b. Are the dying Nigerians dying in the hands of Doctors on duty?

2. NMA/FMoH/FG now wants to compel JOHESU to resume.
a. NMA, why do you want FG to compel JOHESU to resume by all means if you own the 'most important service' to the patient?
b. Why is FMoH/NMA finding all means to employ Locum professionals- the ones you have called all manner of names on the media. Why why why do you want to employ Locum staff who are not relevant to the patients?

3. Court Order. Why is the Court order which compels JOHESU members to return to work suddenly become sacrosanct in the hands of FMoH that JOHESU leaders are now threatened with imprisonment?
Why was nobody imprisoned when about 10 Court judgements in favor of JOHESU were trashed my members of NMA?
I need to pause here to make a few comments:
a. Dont forget that work is going on steadily in all the Hospitals.
b. Dont forget that these JOHESU people are not relevant to health services.
Why would you threaten someone if you do not have a do-or-die interest? Yes, i am asking...i need answers.
So, please answer my question in a simple clear term. Is there something threatening you by this strike action?
If i say my wife is useless and i send her packing, why should i be asking here father to compel here back home. Is something wrong with me upstairs?...still wondering

4. FG/FMoH Sir, is there any just reason for you to adjust CONMESS by 50% and you want to adjust CONHESS by only 25%, 15% or even nothing?
Is it not clear to you Sir?
You upgraded N100 to N150, but you dont wish to upgrade N60 to N90, you want it to be N75 or less. Why do you desire to do such injustice to that guy earning less?
Why are you saying his N90 will suddenly be equivalent to the N150 that your friend is getting?
Why is it that N90 suddenly becomes a threat to your padi's N150 that you are threatening hell and brimestone?

5. Is something wrong with a black man upstairs? Pls answer me...
I am ashamed...
Monkeys?...Shitholes?

asuustrike2009:

OK. You were able to explain in detail and sound convincing but there is another issue they raised. This has to do with health worker having the title consultant,why can't they attain that status at there should be job description?

Cool.

Let's examine what the word "consultant" means.

According to the Cambridge dictionary, a consultant is someone who advises people on a particular subject matter.

You are aware that the hospital exists because of the patient. And when a patient comes to a hospital, he comes to see a doctor to get medical advice or opinion about his illness and find out what he can do to get better.
In other words, the patient comes to the hospital to consult the doctor.
It is the doctor that advises the patient on his diagnoses, the extent of his illness, the pathways that need to be taken for him to get better and the possible outcomes for each of those pathways. It is the doctor, not any other person.
Yes, every health worker in the hospital is working for good and positive outcomes for the patient, but it is the doctor that the patient comes to the hospital to consult.

The title "Consultant" is not an automatic title.
It is not gotten by number of years spent in the civil service as JOHESU tells the public. It is gotten after a number of years spent after graduation receiving post graduate training.
But JOHESU is claiming that it should be given to them based on the number of years they have spent in civil service.

Take note, there are two pathways for doctors who are pursuing clinical practice after graduation.

A doctor can either choose one area of medicine to specialize in and then undergo the necessary specialist training required in that area. This training takes a minimum of 5 years. That is, after the doctor has graduated from medical school, done his housemanship and NYSC, he goes back to receive training for nothing less than 5 more years in the area he has chosen. When he completes this training, he becomes a Fellow and then will be appointed a consultant in that his chosen area by a hospital.

If not, a doctor can choose to enter the Civil Service. These are the group of doctors we call Medical Officers. Now, this group of doctors will never become consultants and will never take part in any benefits of being a consultant. Even if they remain in the Civil Service for 100 years, they will never become consultants because they did not receive any specialist training.

Doctors are not saying that other health workers cannot be consultants. But the fact remains that they cannot be consultants in a hospital. That is why if you google the term "HOSPITAL CONSULTANT", all the responses you get will tell you that a hospital consultant is a physician/surgeon who has completed his specialist training.
Google it now and see for yourself.

When they talk about posts like consultant pharmacists and consultant nurses, they talk about international best practices. But these positions are invariably new all over the world And in all the places where there are consultant nurses or consultant pharmacists, they are not hospital appointments. These consultants have their offices and positions which are independent of hospital leadership positions. They exist as experts of pharmacy or of nursing in a particular field or in a particular geographical location who can be consulted by other nurses or pharmacists and even patients too. They also provide nursing and pharmacy services to places like nursing homes, homes for the aged, mental health institutions, etc. But not in the hospital. You can check for yourself.

But in Nigeria, they want to be consultants in hospitals.
This is not because they want to improve patient healthcare because there is no existing loophole in the hospital cycle of patient healthcare that needs to be filled. As things are currently, there is nothing else they will be doing in hospitals other than what they are currently doing except they now want to take up the duties of doctors as well and chase doctors away from hospitals.

So, don't be deceived. It is not about improving Healthcare. It is about money.
They want to be called consultants just because there is an allowance called Specialist Allowance that consultant physicians/surgeons are paid.
And when they are finally made consultants, they will demand that they should be paid that Specialist Allowance too.

Remember I told you that the consultant position is not gotten by the number of years spent in civil service but by receiving specialist training.
When doctors kept on reminding them of that fact, they now stopped agitating for it based on number of years in civil service. They now started using another route.
They now started attempting to establish post-graduate colleges where they will spend few weeks or few months and when they come out, they will now say they have received specialist training and demand that they be appointed consultants.

Find out the facts for yourself.

nobilis:


Cool.

Let's examine what the word "consultant" means.

According to the Cambridge dictionary, a consultant is someone who advises people on a particular subject matter.

You are aware that the hospital exists because of the patient. And when a patient comes to a hospital, he comes to see a doctor to get medical advice or opinion about his illness and find out what he can do to get better.
In other words, the patient comes to the hospital to consult the doctor.
It is the doctor that advises the patient on his diagnoses, the extent of his illness, the pathways that need to be taken for him to get better and the possible outcomes for each of those pathways. It is the doctor, not any other person.
Yes, every health worker in the hospital is working for good and positive outcomes for the patient, but it is the doctor that the patient comes to the hospital to consult.

The title "Consultant" is not an automatic title.
It is not gotten by number of years spent in the civil service as JOHESU tells the public. It is gotten after a number of years spent after graduation receiving post graduate training.
But JOHESU is claiming that it should be given to them based on the number of years they have spent in civil service.

Take note, there are two pathways for doctors who are pursuing clinical practice after graduation.

A doctor can either choose one area of medicine to specialize in and then undergo the necessary specialist training required in that area. This training takes a minimum of 5 years. That is, after the doctor has graduated from medical school, done his housemanship and NYSC, he goes back to receive training for nothing less than 5 more years in the area he has chosen. When he completes this training, he becomes a Fellow and then will be appointed a consultant in that his chosen area by a hospital.

If not, a doctor can choose to enter the Civil Service. These are the group of doctors we call Medical Officers. Now, this group of doctors will never become consultants and will never take part in any benefits of being a consultant. Even if they remain in the Civil Service for 100 years, they will never become consultants because they did not receive any specialist training.

Doctors are not saying that other health workers cannot be consultants. But the fact remains that they cannot be consultants in a hospital. That is why if you google the term "HOSPITAL CONSULTANT", all the responses you get will tell you that a hospital consultant is a physician/surgeon who has completed his specialist training.
Google it now and see for yourself.

When they talk about posts like consultant pharmacists and consultant nurses, they talk about international best practices. But these positions are invariably new all over the world And in all the places where there are consultant nurses or consultant pharmacists, they are not hospital appointments. These consultants have their offices and positions which are independent of hospital leadership positions. They exist as experts of pharmacy or of nursing in a particular field or in a particular geographical location who can be consulted by other nurses or pharmacists and even patients too. They also provide nursing and pharmacy services to places like nursing homes, homes for the aged, mental health institutions, etc. But not in the hospital. You can check for yourself.

But in Nigeria, they want to be consultants in hospitals.
This is not because they want to improve patient healthcare because there is no existing loophole in the hospital cycle of patient healthcare that needs to be filled. As things are currently, there is nothing else they will be doing in hospitals other than what they are currently doing except they now want to take up the duties of doctors as well and chase doctors away from hospitals.

So, don't be deceived. It is not about improving Healthcare. It is about money.
They want to be called consultants just because there is an allowance called Specialist Allowance that consultant physicians/surgeons are paid.
And when they are finally made consultants, they will demand that they should be paid that Specialist Allowance too.

Remember I told you that the consultant position is not gotten by the number of years spent in civil service but by receiving specialist training.
When doctors kept on reminding them of that fact, they now stopped agitating for it based on number of years in civil service. They now started using another route.
They now started attempting to establish post-graduate colleges where they will spend few weeks or few years and when they come out, they will now say they have received specialist training and demand that they be appointed consultants.

Find out the facts for yourself.

Your paragraph got me laughing . I think NMA need to throw more light on this to the general public. Thank you for explaining

asuustrike2009:

Your paragraph got me laughing . I think NMA need to throw more light on this to the general public. Thank you for explaining

Do you still have more items on your list against doctors?

nobilis:


Hahahahahahahahahaha.
This is extremely funny.

I can't believe that I just spent my time and energy trying to explain something to you and you still chose to believe propaganda.
It is obvious that Nigerians deserve these JOHESU people and their lies.

The agency that is in charge of paying salaries of Nigerians in the federal Civil service is the National Salaries, Income and Wages Commission.
At least, if you're really interested in finding out the truth, all it would have taken you is to go to the website of the Commission to find out the actual salaries these two groups of people are being paid, or at least Google CONHESS and CONMESS Salary Scales. They are not hidden. They are all over the internet. If you search for the actual salaries, you will find it and do the comparison yourself. I didn't want to post the actual salaries here because I expected you to do that one by yourself and because I didn't want it to look like I doctored the figures. But obviously you're too lazy to do your own research by yourself. And you're choosing to believe the erroneous figures that JOHESU fed to TVC News.


I thought that in trying to reason with you on this issue, you would base your arguments on facts but I have seen that you're choosing to base your opinions on propaganda to further mislead people.

Where is the disparity you're talking about?
I spent time explaining this thing to you.
During internship, everybody is on GL 10.
After internship, the next step is GL12. About half a decade ago, JOHESU got a court ruling that allowed them to skip to GL13 while doctors remained on GL12. This made doctors to go on strike and ask that they should allowed to skip to GL13 too. The FG finally agreed that doctors should skip to GL13.
JOHESU saw this and now, they are asking for another salary increase and they are calling it disparity.
So where did the disparity come from?
Or are you saying that while JOHESU people skip to GL13 after internship, that doctors should not be allowed to skip to GL13 too after housemanship?
Is that what you're saying?

The FG is not using a new salary scale to pay doctors. It is the same salary scale it has been using for close to 10 years now. It's not as if the FG just manufactured a new salary structure. Yet JOHESU has not complained of disparity till now because they are just looking for a way to force the FG to increase their salaries and they don't mind doing that by feeding the public with lies and sadly, the Nigerian public believes them.
All the while they were going on strike in the last 10 years, they never talked about "disparity" until because that's the only propaganda tool they have. Or did the disparity just materialize overnight?

If you actually want to know the truth, do your research and find out what these actual salaries are because THOSE FIGURES YOU POSTED ARE TOTALLY FALSE.

Or are you saying that doctors and non-doctors should be paid the same thing?
Because a lawyer and a court clerk are paid the same thing, right?
Or because a lecturer and graduate assistant are paid the same thing, right?
Or because an engineer and a technician are paid the same thing, right?

Secondly, when you say doctors don't want other health workers to climb, I want to know, where exactly are they climbing to? Explain what you mean by that?
Or you still want to toe the path of lies and propaganda.
If that's what you want to do, if you just want to base your arguments on the lies you and JOHESU people feed the public, then please, don't bother quoting me again.

This is so wrong
stop spreading falsehood. Asuustrike don't believe his lies o. Others do their interns at grade level 9, while doctors do thiers at grade level 10, not the same grade level as he falsely claimed. That difference in level of entering grade alone ensure relativity

nobilis:


Cool.

Let's examine what the word "consultant" means.

According to the Cambridge dictionary, a consultant is someone who advises people on a particular subject matter.

You are aware that the hospital exists because of the patient. And when a patient comes to a hospital, he comes to see a doctor to get medical advice or opinion about his illness and find out what he can do to get better.
In other words, the patient comes to the hospital to consult the doctor.
It is the doctor that advises the patient on his diagnoses, the extent of his illness, the pathways that need to be taken for him to get better and the possible outcomes for each of those pathways. It is the doctor, not any other person.
Yes, every health worker in the hospital is working for good and positive outcomes for the patient, but it is the doctor that the patient comes to the hospital to consult.

The title "Consultant" is not an automatic title.
It is not gotten by number of years spent in the civil service as JOHESU tells the public. It is gotten after a number of years spent after graduation receiving post graduate training.
But JOHESU is claiming that it should be given to them based on the number of years they have spent in civil service.

Take note, there are two pathways for doctors who are pursuing clinical practice after graduation.

A doctor can either choose one area of medicine to specialize in and then undergo the necessary specialist training required in that area. This training takes a minimum of 5 years. That is, after the doctor has graduated from medical school, done his housemanship and NYSC, he goes back to receive training for nothing less than 5 more years in the area he has chosen. When he completes this training, he becomes a Fellow and then will be appointed a consultant in that his chosen area by a hospital.

If not, a doctor can choose to enter the Civil Service. These are the group of doctors we call Medical Officers. Now, this group of doctors will never become consultants and will never take part in any benefits of being a consultant. Even if they remain in the Civil Service for 100 years, they will never become consultants because they did not receive any specialist training.

Doctors are not saying that other health workers cannot be consultants. But the fact remains that they cannot be consultants in a hospital. That is why if you google the term "HOSPITAL CONSULTANT", all the responses you get will tell you that a hospital consultant is a physician/surgeon who has completed his specialist training.
Google it now and see for yourself.

When they talk about posts like consultant pharmacists and consultant nurses, they talk about international best practices. But these positions are invariably new all over the world And in all the places where there are consultant nurses or consultant pharmacists, they are not hospital appointments. These consultants have their offices and positions which are independent of hospital leadership positions. They exist as experts of pharmacy or of nursing in a particular field or in a particular geographical location who can be consulted by other nurses or pharmacists and even patients too. They also provide nursing and pharmacy services to places like nursing homes, homes for the aged, mental health institutions, etc. But not in the hospital. You can check for yourself.

But in Nigeria, they want to be consultants in hospitals.
This is not because they want to improve patient healthcare because there is no existing loophole in the hospital cycle of patient healthcare that needs to be filled. As things are currently, there is nothing else they will be doing in hospitals other than what they are currently doing except they now want to take up the duties of doctors as well and chase doctors away from hospitals.

So, don't be deceived. It is not about improving Healthcare. It is about money.
They want to be called consultants just because there is an allowance called Specialist Allowance that consultant physicians/surgeons are paid.
And when they are finally made consultants, they will demand that they should be paid that Specialist Allowance too.

Remember I told you that the consultant position is not gotten by the number of years spent in civil service but by receiving specialist training.
When doctors kept on reminding them of that fact, they now stopped agitating for it based on number of years in civil service. They now started using another route.
They now started attempting to establish post-graduate colleges where they will spend few weeks or few months and when they come out, they will now say they have received specialist training and demand that they be appointed consultants.

Find out the facts for yourself.

liar! A pathetic one at that. Fear God now! who told u pharmacist want consultancy based on year of service, for your information their is west African post graduate college of pharmacist, after which a graduate from the sch become a fellow and then a consultant, does this mean year of service to u?

I initially took u serious, until I I saw ur deceit.

Anyway, Lagos state has approved the consultancy cadre for pharmacist u shud go and revoke it. liar.

asuustrike2009:

Your paragraph got me laughing . I think NMA need to throw more light on this to the general public. Thank you for explaining

Eeyah! I see the guy has caught u in his web of lies, he is a liar. pls, read my posts and see where I burst his lies.

Nobilis, I dare u to counter what i have posted, liar, it's only the ignorant public u can fool not enlightened one like me.

counter it, am patiently waiting. pathetic liar

@sogodihno one of the arguments is that Corpa doctors enter the same grade with Johesu staff and that they earn more than other health workers on that grade. How true is this?

asuustrike2009:
@sogodihno one of the arguments is that Corpa doctors enter the same grade with Johesu staff and that they earn more than other health workers on that grade. How true is this?

No, it's a lie. Nysc Doctor are paid base on grade 10 which is their CONMESS 1 and others(Pharm, physio,lab sci apart from nurses)) are paid base on grade 9 which is equal to their CONHESS 8.
They dont enter the same grade even at NYSC level.

asuustrike2009:
@sogodihno one of the arguments is that Corpa doctors enter the same grade with Johesu staff and that they earn more than other health workers on that grade. How true is this?

A fresh graduate of nursing enter at GRADE LEVEL 8 - CONHESS 7
While a fresh graduate of other health workers (pharmacists, radiographers, medical lab scientists and Physiotherapists) doing their internship enter at GRADE LEVEL 9 - CONHESS 8.
A fresh medicine graduate doing his housemanship enters at GRADE LEVEL 10 which is equivalent to CONHESS 9. So relativity has already been established from the entry point because of the extra 1yr in school.

sogodihno:


No, it's a lie. Nysc Doctor are paid base on grade 10 which is their CONMESS 1 and others(Pharm, physio,lab sci apart from nurses)) are paid base on grade 9 which is equal to their CONHESS 8.
They dont enter the same grade even at NYSC level.

OK.
The only mistake I made is in the grade level of entry. And I'm sorry for that misinformation.

Doctors doing housemanship enter at grade level 10 which is equivalent to CONHESS 09 or CONMESS 01, other health workers enter at grade level 9 which is equivalent to CONHESS 08 or grade level 8 which is equivalent to CONHESS 07.

This, I gathered, is because of the number of years spent in school.
Doctors spend upwards of 6 years in school, that's why they are started on Grade Level 10.
The health workers that are started on Grade Level 9 spent 5 years in school.
And those that are started on Grade Level 8 spent 4 years in school.

This is to ensure relativity in salaries which is obtained everywhere in the world.

Is there any other thing I wrote there that is false?

After NYSC, everyone should proceed serially along the grade levels but you guys decided you want to jump from CONHESS 09 to CONHESS 11 And yet you expect doctors not to jump as you people have jumped.

Those members of JOHESU that start at CONHESS 07, why are you people not agitating for them to also start at CONHESS 08 so that it will all be uniform since you people know what is good.

But you people want to enter service with maintenance of relativity and then turn around to destroy that relativity along the line. Normally, with the arrangement, after NYSC, health workers should start on Grade Level 10 while doctors should start on Grade Level 12 (this is because there is no Grade Level 11 in Civil Service).
But you guys saw that 10-12 difference and it pained you people so much and you people now asked the FG to allow you people to jump Grade Level 12 to land on Grade Level 13 so that relativity will be abolished. And you people don't want doctors to jump Grade Level 12 and land on 13 as well.

Doctors never said your salaries should not be increased.
If you say it's a lie, show me where doctors rejected your request for salary increase.
And I can show you pictures of NMA circulars that even encouraged the government to increase your salaries.
Doctors are saying that however your salary increases will occur, that relativity in salaries must be maintained.

It is always about money with you people.
That is why your lab scientists want to increase the number of years they spend in school to 6 years. Not because it will add anything to the quality of their practice but just so that they can also be allowed to start at Grade Level 10 just like doctors.
You like using a roundabout way to achieve your aims so that it will be easy to deceive the common Nigerian.

sogodihno:


liar! A pathetic one at that. Fear God now! who told u pharmacist want consultancy based on year of service, for your information their is west African post graduate college of pharmacist, after which a graduate from the sch become a fellow and then a consultant, does this mean year of service to u?

I initially took u serious, until I I saw ur deceit.

Anyway, Lagos state has approved the consultancy cadre for pharmacist u shud go and revoke it. liar.

Keep lying to yourself.

You guys are agitating for Consultancy just so that you guys can also be paid the Specialist allowance that consultants are being paid.
You can tell yourself and the whole world that it is not true. But deep within you, you know that it is true.

If you try to deny it, then please tell us:

What will a consultant pharmacist do in a hospital that pharmacists are not doing already?
What will a consultant nurse do in a hospital that nurses are not doing already?

What exactly?

nobilis:


Keep lying to yourself.

You guys are agitating for Consultancy just so that you guys can also be paid the Specialist allowance that consultants are being paid.
You can tell yourself and the whole world that it is not true. But deep within you, you know that it is true.

If you try to deny it, then please tell us:

What will a consultant pharmacist do in a hospital that pharmacists are not doing already?
What will a consultant nurse do in a hospital that nurses are not doing already?

What exactly?

I don't have time to argue with u, since u are blinded with sentiment. u are not really intelligent as u think. who is a consultant? by the definition u gave earlier, a consultant is a person who give advise to people base on area of his specialty. if a pharmacist being a drug specialist wish to be a cosultant after further training in the same field, who the hell are u to say he cant? are u his employer? what's wrong with a pharmacist being a consultant? what does it take away from your own consultancy?

Anyway, i reiterate consultancy status has been approved for pharmacist in Lagos state and soon other States will follow, if u don't like it, go and use the lagoon. maybe consultant is your father's name. ignorant fellows and saddist. SMH.

sogodihno:


I don't have time to argue with u, since u are blinded with sentiment. u are not really intelligent as u think. who is a consultant? by the definition u gave earlier, a consultant is a person who give advise to people base on area of his specialty. if a pharmacist being a drug specialist wish to be a cosultant after further training in the same field, who the hell are u to say he cant? are u his employer? what's wrong with a pharmacist being a consultant? what does it take away from your own consultancy?

Anyway, i reiterate consultancy status has been approved for pharmacist in Lagos state and soon other States will follow, if u don't like it, go and use the lagoon. maybe consultant is your father's name. ignorant fellows and saddist. SMH.

Like I wrote in my earlier post on this issue, nobody said health workers cannot be consultants.
They can be consultants but not in a hospital.
And I recall I mentioned the situations where you find consultant pharmacists and nurses as obtained in other countries.

The term "hospital consultant" refers to medical doctors and to no other professionals.

And you refused to tell us what a consultant pharmacist or nurse will be doing in a hospital that is different from what pharmacists and nurses are doing now in terms of patient health care and wellbeing.

Just mention the different thing they will be doing.

But if there is nothing different that they will be doing, why do they want to be called consultants if it's not because of that specialist allowance?

nobilis:


Like I wrote in my earlier post on this issue, nobody said health workers cannot be consultants.
They can be consultants but not in a hospital.
And I recall I mentioned the situations where you find consultant pharmacists and nurses as obtained in other countries.

The term "hospital consultant" refers to medical doctors and to no other professionals.

And you refused to tell us what a consultant pharmacist or nurse will be doing in a hospital that is different from what pharmacists and nurses are doing now in terms of patient health care and wellbeing.

Just mention the different thing they will be doing.

But if there is nothing different that they will be doing, why do they want to be called consultants if it's not because of that specialist allowance?

with the aid of further training they do what they have been doing now better and more input in patients drug management. The point is with further training, better knowledge and more exposure and at the end it is the patient that benefit. is that too difficult for you to understand?

sogodihno:



with the aid of further training they do what they have been doing now better and more input in patients drug management. The point is with further training, better knowledge and more exposure and at the end it is the patient that benefit. is that too difficult for you to understand?

Like what na?
Stop using blanket terms to hoodwink the common Nigerian.

List the duties of a consultant pharmacist/nurse and tell us how they are different or how they are an improvement upon the duties of pharamcists/nurses in the hospital presently.

List them point by point.

That shouldn't be difficult for you.

nobilis:


Like what na?
Stop using blanket terms to hoodwink the common Nigerian.

List the duties of a consultant pharmacist/nurse and tell us how they are different or how they are an improvement upon the duties of pharamcists/nurses in the hospital presently.

List them point by point.

That shouldn't be difficult for you.

pls, read what I wrote earlier but slowly this time, since u don't comprehend fast. And pls, stop quoting me it's a wasted effort trying to debate with biased mind already. peace.

sogodihno:


pls, read what I wrote earlier but slowly this time, since u don't comprehend fast. And pls, stop quoting me it's a wasted effort trying to debate with biased mind already. peace.

I am biased and you are not biased, eh kwa?

So you are trying to tell us now that currently, you guys are not managing patients optimally the way you should do so.

You guys are waiting to be called consultants before you start bringing forth the optimum patient management criteria?
So you guys cannot optimize patient care without being called consultants?

Is that so?
Wow.
I never knew.

So basically, it is all about the title and the pecuniary benefit attached to it. And not even about the patient.

You guys are doing well.