MuttleyLaff:
SMH. Confused.com

It is called nuance and discernment. Unlike you, I seem to have the ability to separate different ideas and contexts contained in the same point.

It seems you cannot separate the symptom from the disease.

You seem to not understand that the disease behind a christian cursing someone to death spiritually is a hatred. You fail to see that it is hatred that pushes a christian to curse someone to death.

Hatred that is against the rule of nairaland.


Yet, you call me confused. You are delusional.

chemystery:
Someone is advising his deluded goons to stay away from replying atheists yet he wouldn't take his own advice. I pity those who take butterfly-lie-on serious

He never meant it. How can one ask a thread be ignored but call in all those you want to notice it?

The thread itself was bait to drag his cohorts out of the woodwork. Even long lost Sciencewatch has turned up to ignore the thread and I wouldn't be surprised to see kingebukasblog turn up to ignore it too at some point.

^^^^
||||||

@MuttleyLaff would you like to do the honours? I mean one hop above

Butterflyleo:


Smh you cannot even see that your very words echo and support mine. Look at your words below.

Subjective morality simply means that our morality is based on our society and our interactions with it. [b]It also simple means that there is no predefined morality like religious people believe, but that morality is fluid and is not set in stone[/b].

You simply said there is NO SET FOUNDATION To morality for those who have subjective morality.

When you say IT IS FLUID you mean it can be adjusted to suit INDIVIDUAL DEMANDS or COMFORTS.

So if I leave Nigeria and go to Netherlands then I can adjust my morality to suite those in Netherlands FREELY since my morality has no root and no foundation so I simply embrace whatever catches my fancy morally in Netherlands.

Thanks for supporting my words unawares.

Your lies are making you mad seriously. I said morality is not set in stone but in your usual lying ways you lied that I said there is no set foundation. Can you see how shameless you are and how you always twist and make things up to delude yourself?

Saying that morality isn't set in stone simply means that it varies not that it has no set foundation as you lied. You are shameless. Morality varies from.society to society that is why a man can marry 4 wives in Kano but will be jailed and seen as an evil person if he tries it in Sweden.

Saying that morality is fluid means it changes from period in time. Back in the days incest and slavery were considered normal in many societies, today they have been outlawed, that shows the fluidity of morality.

If you go to Saudi Arabia your morality will have to be based on that which the Saudi society has established. You can not go there and do your pig business because it is against their moral principles. You'll be arrested and jailed if you try it. You can NOT do what ever you want in any society you find yourself. You will always have to do what is acceptable withing the moral acceptable standard that is set by that society. No.matter how you want to rear pigs you will not be able to do it in Saudi Arabia.

dalaman:
It doesn't matter, it's nice to know that you consider it OK for a person to wish another person death because his beliefs was ridicule after warning people to stop.

How do you know it was a deterrent? How did it deter anyone? He truly wished us death and would have been happy if his wishes came true. But seems wishing people death over religious squabbles is fair game to you no wahala.

You guys should learn to stand for something. You can not claim to be what you are not and display ridiculous hypocrisy and expect anything but mockery.

"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble,
it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck
and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."
- Matthew 18:6

superhumanist:
It is called nuance and discernment. Unlike you, I seem to have the ability to separate different ideas and contexts contained in the same point.

It seems you cannot separate the symptom from the disease.

You seem to not understand that the disease behind a christian cursing someone to death spiritually is a hatred.
You fail to see that it is hatred that pushes a christian to curse someone to death.

Hatred that is against the rule of nairaland.

Yet, you call me confused. You are delusional.

"And whoever might cause to stumble one of these little ones believing in Me,
it is better for him rather if a heavy millstone is put around his neck,
and he has been cast into the sea."
- Mark 9:42

Butterflyleo:


But you are acting opposite atheism when you run to the bible and Jesus and use them as your yardstick despite claiming they are myths and do not exist?

Your hypocrisy is so blinding.

I am not using the bible as a yardstick. Just using the bible to point out your hypocrisy. You claim be a follower of Jesus but you always fail.to do that which he taught you. That only makes you a hypocrite that stands for nothing.

dalaman:


Your lies are making you mad seriously. I set morality is not set in stone but in your usual lying ways you lied that I said there is no set foundation. Can you see how shameless you are and how you always twist and make things up to delude yourself?

Saying that morality isn't set in stone simply means that it varies not that it has no set foundation as you lied. You are shameless. Morality varies from.society to society that is why a man can marry 4 wives in Kano but will be jailed and seen as an evil person if he tries it in Sweden.

Saying that morality is fluid means it changes from period in time. Back in the days incest and slavery were considered normal in many societies, today they have been outlawed, that shows the fluidity of morality.

If you go to Saudi Arabia your morality will have to be based on that which the Saudi society has established. You can not go there and do your pig business because it is against their moral principles. You'll be arrested and jailed if you try it. You can NOT do what ever you want in any society you find yourself. You will always have to do what is acceptable withing the moral acceptable standard that is set by that society. No.matter how you want to rear pigs you will not be able to do it in Saudi Arabia.

Morality isn't set in stone simply means it holds no foundation so ISNT SUSTAINABLE and can be altered AS THE SITUATION DEMANDS and this is why a homosexual who cannot practice it in Nigeria would fly to another country where it is legal and do so but come back to Nigeria and pretend that he isn't gay.

Your statement is far reaching and beyond your rather myopic view. If this was a legal argument, you would be clearly shown how extremely wide and far reaching your words are as against what you claim.

I just gave you one example through which it is far reaching.

The law isn't made for man but man for the law. If there were no men there would be no law so we are the ones who make the laws effectual or ineffectual.

What is attainable in one country may not be INDIVIDUALLY acceptable to everyone so people always look for what makes them comfortable. If someone derives his moral pleasure through killing, and he finds a way to circumvent the law or use the law to his advantage so he can derive his pleasure, HE WOULD INDIVIDUALLY do so regardless of whatever moral laws are prevalent in a land.

You really need to learn to do some deep thinking prior to making some rather ambiguous statements.

Butterflyleo:
^^^^
||||||

@MuttleyLaff would you like to do the honours? I mean one hop above

Am about popping out to valet my car
Give me an hour or two to be back. Soon come bro

LosVikingos:
I am a theist, but seriously, this thread is very irrational.

The title of the thread just showed the level of your hatred for atheists and atheism at large.

It is an insult, and very rude.

By not proving them wrong thereby concluding they have mental disorder.

It is as if you're just insulting yourself.

Butterflyleo
.

You will be most blessed. Please do not let us atheist get away lightly. I will follow you because I value your opinion. My hope is that your theism turns out to be Christian or Muslim.

dalaman:


I am not using the bible as a yardstick. Just using the bible to point out your hypocrisy. You claim be a follower of Jesus but you always fail.to do that which he taught you. That only makes you a hypocrite that stands for nothing.

The same Bible you claim is a myth is suddenly being used as an authority by you to point out hypocrisy? Amazing!

The same Jesus you claim NEVER EXISTED you are now calling someone a follower of? And claiming that person failed? And claiming that person was taught by the same Jesus who never existed?

I repeat, your hypocrisy is blinding.

MuttleyLaff:
"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble,
it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck
and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."
- Matthew 18:6

"And whoever might cause to stumble one of these little ones believing in Me,
it is better for him rather if a heavy millstone is put around his neck,
and he has been cast into the sea."
- Mark 9:42

Whenever a dishonest christian's argument is exposed as silly, the christian usually hides behind a bible quote to sound intelligent.

MuttleyLaff:

Please stop dragging in Jesus, whom you dont believe exist

Oh stop with the dishonesty already! Who says the criteria for mentioning Jesus is belief?

Butterflyleo:


The same Bible you claim is a myth is suddenly being used as an authority by you to point out hypocrisy? Amazing!

The same Jesus you claim NEVER EXISTED you are now calling someone a follower of? And claiming that person failed? And claiming that person was taught by the same Jesus who never existed?

I repeat, your hypocrisy is blinding.

Does the bible have to be an authority in order to use it to point out a hypocrisy? Man, you talk a lot of nonsense.

Must I believe in Buddhism or its doctrines to point out the hypocrisy of monks eating meat?

Must i believe in the Quran to use it point out the hypocrisy of certain muslims drinking?


Stop talking nonsense

MuttleyLaff:
Am about popping out to valet my car
Give me an hour or two to be back. Soon come bro

Which method?



Or this

[img]https:///media/7-28-2015/VA0E4n.gif[/img]

Or this

MuttleyLaff:


As far as you are concerned, Jesus is a figment of imagination, something imagined, like dalaman will put it

Humpty Dumpty is a figment of the imagination, but does one refuse to learn to sit securely on a wall because it is?

And we all read Animal Farm, a figment of the imagination, but do we therefore refuse to learn any lessons therein?

superhumanist:



Does the bible have to be an authority in order to use it to point out a hypocrisy? Man, you talk a lot of nonsense.

Must I believe in Buddhism or its doctrines to point out the hypocrisy of monks eating meat?

Must i believe in the Quran to use it point out the hypocrisy of certain muslims drinking?


Stop talking nonsense

This will be my first and obviously final response to you because I know that if I do not respond to you, you just might choke yourself out of the frustration of my continually ignoring you. So this reply is for the good of your health. Go ahead and heave a sigh of relief.

Now to the issue.

You make so many illogical comments its alarming.

Behold below.

hypocrisy
noun
the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.

Do you see anything in that definition?

For anybody to say another is a hypocrite then there must be A FOUNDATION to that claim and that foundation must be seen as an authority. If it isn't an authority then it would simply be either a delusional comment or a defamation of character.

There must FIRST be an existing standard before ANYONE can claim to have A HIGHER STANDARD of beliefs and there must be an existing noble belief before anyone can claim to have A MORE NOBLE BELIEF than is the case.

Do you believe in the standard of the bible or its credibility? No

Do you believe Jesus existed? No

So where is the foundation for your claim of hypocrisy using the same Bible and Jesus whom you say are myths and never existed?

I should not be teaching you simple logical approaches to things but you forced my hand.

Like I said, this would be my first and last response so screengrab it and frame it on your favourite wall section at home.

I am glad I added sense to your nonsense.

Butterflyleo:


Morality isn't set in stone simply means it holds no foundation so ISNT SUSTAINABLE and can be altered AS THE SITUATION DEMANDS and this is why a homosexual who cannot practice it in Nigeria would fly to another country where it is legal and do so but come back to Nigeria and pretend that he isn't gay.

Your statement is far reaching and beyond your rather myopic view. If this was a legal argument, you would be clearly shown how extremely wide and far reaching your words are as against what you claim.

I just gave you one example through which it is far reaching.

The law isn't made for man but man for the law. If there were no men there would be no law so we are the ones who make the laws effectual or ineffectual.

What is attainable in one country may not be INDIVIDUALLY acceptable to everyone so people always look for what makes them comfortable. If someone derives his moral pleasure through killing, and he finds a way to circumvent the law or use the law to his advantage so he can derive his pleasure, HE WOULD INDIVIDUALLY do so regardless of whatever moral laws are prevalent in a land.

You really need to learn to do some deep thinking prior to making some rather ambiguous statements.

Am tired of your empty talk. Morality isn't set in stone DOES NOT mean it hold no foundation. It simply means that it morality evolves and it isn't fixed. That is what it means.
And that is the reality of morality. Whether you want to kill people as an individual has NOTHING TO DO with the morality of the society. You can NOT DO what you want that is outside the established moral codes of conduct of a society and be termed moral. So long as it is outside what is morally established by the society it becomes immoral. You can set up a hidden pig farm in Saudia Arabia but that doesn't mean you aren'tdoing an immoral thing. It just means you've been able to hide and do what you want. It doesn't make it immoral. As long as the society is concerned you are doing an immoral act and if caught you'll face the consequences.

Butterflyleo:

You cannot claim anyone erred when the subject of their error does not exist to you. Where then did you manufacture their error from?

So, your behavior is deterdmined by the belief of others, and not by what you believe, right?

Butterflyleo:
Are you now a theist to judge a christian by their own book? A book you also claim is a myth and a figment of many human imaginations?

It is not judgement butter. And it is not "their own book" as anyone can buy and read one.

If anything, it says much more about the validity of your beliefs than the one you claim to believe in! You are being held up against the teachings, which anyone can go read up on, and have been found not to measure up!

Butterflyleo:


The same Bible you claim is a myth is suddenly being used as an authority by you to point out hypocrisy? Amazing!

The same Jesus you claim NEVER EXISTED you are now calling someone a follower of? And claiming that person failed? And claiming that person was taught by the same Jesus who never existed?

I repeat, your hypocrisy is blinding.

The bible I do not believe in is used by me to point out the hypocrisy of a chrosyian that BELIEVES in it. My belief in Jesus matters not so long as a person that believes Jesus exist and claims to follow him can not even do that which he claims to believe in.

Whether I believe Jesus exist or not matters not because many believe he exist and are his followers. I simply point out to them that they should learn to stand for what they claim they believe in. Some of your analogies are so lame and ridiculous.

My beliefs have nothing to do with a person that can not stand for anything.

dalaman:


Am tired of your empty talk. Morality isn't set in stone DOES NOT mean it hold no foundation. It simply means that it morality evolves and it isn't fixed. That is what it means.

Simply put, IT HOLDS NO FOUNDATION aka NO ANCHOR aka IT IS NOT FIXED ( You used the same term).

And that is the reality of morality. Whether you want to kill people as an individual has NOTHING TO DO with the morality of the society. You can NOT DO what you want that is outside the established moral codes of conduct of a society and be termed moral. So long as it is outside what is morally established by the society it becomes immoral. You can set up a hidden pig farm in Saudia Arabia but that doesn't mean you aren'tdoing an immoral thing. It just means you've been able to hide and do what you want. It doesn't make it immoral. As long as the society is concerned you are doing an immoral act and if caught you'll face the consequences.

I need to remind you again that before there were SOCIETIES there were FIRST people. The law did not come first, PEOPLE CAME FIRST. It is people who make the law effective or ineffective and the law is useless without people.

Even you cited the example of a hidden pig farm in Saudi Arabia. Did I not know it was morally against the law of the society yet I INDIVIDUALLY still went ahead with it because IT IS SOMETHING I AM COMFORTABLE WITH?

Remember in my last quote I talked about circumventing the law or using the law to my advantage? That is what your comment just supported too.

I work the law, the law does not work me. Man works the law and the law does not work man.

Meditate on this and you will realise the harsh truth.

Butterflyleo:


But you are acting opposite atheism when you run to the bible and Jesus and use them as your yardstick despite claiming they are myths and do not exist?

Where do you get this rubbish from? If I, an atheist, love my neighbour as much as I love myself, do not repay a slap with a slap and so on, do I stop being an atheist despite still not believing in gods?

Your weird view of atheism must be blinding you!

Butterflyleo:


This will be my first and obviously final response to you because I know that if I do not respond to you, you just might choke yourself out of the frustration of my continually ignoring you. So this reply is for the good of your health. Go ahead and heave a sigh of relief.

Now to the issue.

You make so many illogical comments its alarming.

Behold below.




Do you see anything in that definition?

For anybody to say another is a hypocrite then there must be A FOUNDATION to that claim and that foundation must be seen as an authority. If it isn't an authority then it would simply be either a delusional comment or a defamation of character.

There must FIRST be an existing standard before ANYONE can claim to have A HIGHER STANDARD of beliefs and there must be an existing noble belief before anyone can claim to have A MORE NOBLE BELIEF than is the case.

Do you believe in the standard of the bible or its credibility? No

Do you believe Jesus existed? No

So where is the foundation for your claim of hypocrisy using the same Bible and Jesus whom you say are myths and never existed?

I should not be teaching you simple logical approaches to things but you forced my hand.

Like I said, this would be my first and last response so screengrab it and frame it on your favourite wall section at home.

I am glad I added sense to your nonsense.

You are a LIAR! You picked just one definition of hypocrisy out of many and made a useless commentary on it. From Cambridge

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hypocrisy


a situation in which someone pretends to believe something that they do not really believe, or that is the opposite of what they do or say at another time:

How does this fit in with your nonsense commentary?

dalaman:


The bible I do not believe in is used by me to point out the hypocrisy of a chrosyian that BELIEVES in it. My belief in Jesus matters not so long as a person that believes Jesus exist and claims to follow him can not even do that which he claims to believe in.

You do not believe in the bible because it is a myth but somehow it ceases to be a myth and becomes an authority to be used to point out hypocrisy despite still being a myth? How very funny.

The same Jesus you say never existed suddenly begins to exist when you want to use him to say someone isn't following his teachings despite him not existing? . Another very funny illogicality.

Whether I believe Jesus exist or not matters not because many believe he exist and are his followers. I simply point out to them that they should learn to stand for what they claim they believe in. Some of your analogies are so lame and ridiculous

You cannot eat your cake and have it. When something does not exist as you claim Jesus does not then that means that NOTHING is where Jesus is supposed to be in your mind. So how can you use NOTHING to point out anything? My analogies are apt and very accurate.

You cannot build on nothing. You cannot accuse on nothinfg. You cannot point out ANYTHING with NOTHING..

My beliefs have nothing to do with a person that can not stand for anything

.

Your position is atheism and your belief is that Jesus never existed and that the bible is a myth. Its either this statement of claim from you is no longer seen as a fact by you which is why you break your own rules so flagrantly or you are indeed being a hypocrite. I would opt for the latter though.

Butterflyleo:

hypocrisy
noun
the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.

For anybody to say another is a hypocrite then there must be A FOUNDATION to that claim and that foundation must be seen as an authority.

Who told you that "foundation must be seen as an authority"? But let me play along.

A thief claims anytime one enters a house to rob someone, they must kill them. (By the statement, he sets up foundation, and authority for himself at least, that he must kill.)

The thief then enters a house to rob someone but decides not. (So he gets accused of hypocrisy.)

And all that applies regardless of the accuser not being a thief.

One does not have to be a Buddhist before one accuses a meat eating monk who preaches the non-eating of meat of hypocrisy butter!

dalaman:


You are a LIAR! You picked just one definition of hypocrisy out of many and made a useless commentary on it. From Cambridge

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hypocrisy


a situation in which someone pretends to believe something that they do not really believe, or that is the opposite of what they do or say at another time:

How does this fit in with your nonsense commentary?

How on earth do you even miss things that are so obvious in black and white? My God!

Your definition

a situation in which someone pretends to believe something that they do not really believe, or that is the opposite of what they do or say at another time:

BELIEVE SOMETHING is right there before you.

There must be a first belief prior to any belief being seen as MORE NOBLE BELIEF.


Before you say someone is against or acting opposite or does nor believe what he first said or believed, then you must have knowledge of what he first said or believed and hold it as true enough to be used as a yardstick to judge such a one.

Besides you also have the word PRETENDS in your definition. So how can you know he or she is pretending and a hypocrite if YOU do not also hold HIGH the beliefs you claim he has or is pretending against

So do you hold high the words of the bible or Jesus?

budaatum:

The great pity is that unbeknown to you, it would seem, your style of argument projects your mental state and if you could only see, you would find what you've written here applies to you.

But one need not bother about the forest in ones own eye, I suppose, when one can focus better on the twig in the eye of others.

Reminding myself!

Butterflyleo:


Simply put, IT HOLDS NO FOUNDATION aka NO ANCHOR aka IT IS NOT FIXED ( You used the same term).

Morality is not fixed simply means it is predetermined and not able to be changed and not that it has no foundation.

I need to remind you again that before there were SOCIETIES there were FIRST people. The law did not come first, PEOPLE CAME FIRST. It is people who make the law effective or ineffective and the law is useless without people.

Even you cited the example of a hidden pig farm in Saudi Arabia. Did I not know it was morally against the law of the society yet I INDIVIDUALLY still went ahead with it because IT IS SOMETHING I AM COMFORTABLE WITH?

Remember in my last quote I talked about circumventing the law or using the law to my advantage? That is what your comment just supported too.

I work the law, the law does not work me. Man works the law and the law does not work man.

Meditate on this and you will realise the harsh truth.

You can not do it legally and that is what matters. Ignorance is not an excuse to bridge the law. Not knowing that it is wrong to rear pigs in Saudi doesn't make it immoral there. That is my point. No matter how you want to rear pigs there you can not do it legally or morally.

dalaman:


Morality is not fixed simply means it is predetermined and not able to be changed and not that it has no foundation.

Morality isn't predetermined because man came before it. First you say it isn't fixed and is fluid next you say it is not able to be changed when it changes from society to society and Individual to individual. Its clear to see all over the world which is why we have sadists, rapists, serial killers, shooters, poachers, human rights abusers etc in every society. That is why laws are even broken because morality IS ALTERED individually to suit our comfort individually which unfortunately could also be against the law.

You can not do it legally and that is what matters. Ignorance is not an excuse to bridge the law. Not knowing that it is wrong to rear pigs in Saudi doesn't make it immoral there. That is my point.

It can be circumvented and done legally. I can take advantage of my fundamental rights and my respect for the fundamental rights of others which is why it was HIDDEN in the first place. Location and non proximity to human population could be my crack in the wall of the moral law of the land.

Besides a certain member of the Royal family in Saudi Arabia Prince Adel Al-Otaibi was arrested some time ago for trafficking pork meat in Israel. He was supposed to have a moral foundation in Saudi Arabia but his INDIVIDUAL COMFORT prevailed and he left Saudi for Israel to embark on what is prohibited in his own country which he should be upholding as a member of the royal family.

This further shows that your claim that morality cannot be changed is erroneous and INDIVIDUALS do so all the time simply because they have no foundation to theirs and like you, are being subjective about it.

By the way, pork trafficking is also illegal in Israel and only acceptable by law in the Christian minority but he not only broke the already known laws in Israel for his own INDIVIDUAL moral comfort but probably also went near Christians to get supplies which also went against his religious morality and made him also focus on his INDIVIDUAL comfort.

Butterflyleo:


How on earth do you even miss things that are so obvious in black and white? My God!

Your definition



BELIEVE SOMETHING is right there before you.

There must be a first belief prior to any belief being seen as MORE NOBLE BELIEF.


Before you say someone is against or acting opposite or does nor believe what he first said or believed, then you must have knowledge of what he first said or believed and hold it as true enough to be used as a yardstick to judge such a one.

Besides you also have the word PRETENDS in your definition. So how can you know he or she is pretending and a hypocrite if YOU do not also hold HIGH the beliefs you claim he has or is pretending against

So do you hold high the words of the bible or Jesus?

You are a joke. So if I see someone professing his love for a lady but his actions always show that he doesn't and I call him out. Does that mean that I have to believe in a higher standard before I can do that? What lame logic are you displaying?

You lot should seriously watch your mental health, paying attention to so much nonsense will really weigh down on you eventually.

Butterflyleo:


This will be my first and obviously final response to you because I know that if I do not respond to you, you just might choke yourself out of the frustration of my continually ignoring you. So this reply is for the good of your health. Go ahead and heave a sigh of relief.

Now to the issue.

You make so many illogical comments its alarming.

Behold below.




Do you see anything in that definition?

For anybody to say another is a hypocrite then there must be A FOUNDATION to that claim and that foundation must be seen as an authority. If it isn't an authority then it would simply be either a delusional comment or a defamation of character.

There must FIRST be an existing standard before ANYONE can claim to have A HIGHER STANDARD of beliefs and there must be an existing noble belief before anyone can claim to have A MORE NOBLE BELIEF than is the case.

Do you believe in the standard of the bible or its credibility? No

Do you believe Jesus existed? No

So where is the foundation for your claim of hypocrisy using the same Bible and Jesus whom you say are myths and never existed?

I should not be teaching you simple logical approaches to things but you forced my hand.

Like I said, this would be my first and last response so screengrab it and frame it on your favourite wall section at home.

I am glad I added sense to your nonsense.

As usual, my dishonest christian friend uses the most inappropriate definition of a word to beef up his argument.

You are full of crap.

Butterflyleo has finally run mad. See how the guy is just rambling nonsense.