dalaman:


You are a joke. So if I see someone professing his love for a lady but his actions always show that he doesn't and I call him out. Does that mean that I have to believe in a higher standard before I can do that? What lame logic are you displaying?

It means you FIRST had a belief in some level or some standard. So which do you have?

hopefulLandlord:
mention me now

LosVikingos, my fellow Madrid fan. I'm the one the above message referring to

However that I "love" ridiculing religious belief doesn't mean I'm not learning from the conversations. I'm of the strong opinion that religious beliefs especially god based ones are detrimental to the future of human race and any "benefit" people think religious belief gives to humans can be gotten elsewhere but humans are so attached to religious beliefs that they can't be arsed to finding out other sources of such benefits. I'll admit religious beliefs were very useful in time past but it has outlived its usefulness. I was not an Antitheist before and I just virtually became one recently, my debates with theists over the years and experiences combined with reading several books, checking out YouTube videos and frequent visits to "debatereligion" sub of reddit pushed me to Antitheism and made me conclude that religious belief are only useful for being ridiculed. Al religious beliefs are based on faith and faith in religious terms is very useless, idiotic, nonsensical and asinine cuz If you have enough "faith" you can literally hold any position, true or false. you can hold mutually exclusive positions too. infact if you start the foundation of anything with faith there's no limit to what you can claim.

Even when holding this belief I still try to learn and see if something sensible and consistent can be brought forward to counter my standpoint but its been disappointing so far as it all starts well and goes pearshaped from there

TL;DR: Religious faith is nonsense, illogical and stupid. it deserves to be treated with nothing less than contempt and ridicule. this I do with no apologies although I would never treat the religious humans themselves this way although some people can't separate themselves and their belief which makes any them interpret ridiculing them as ridiculing their belief, If a believer's " truth " is so fragile as to not stand up to any dissenting opinions then they should really be analyzing why they are so offended.
That I ridicule religious belief for the nonsense that they are doesn't mean I'm not learning or I'm not open to the possibility of being shown the error of my ways (if they can)

Hala Madrid

The way I see religion is so close to yours, but I am not an atheist

I am not an extremist, because I have read across so many religions, Why?, because I wanted to be sure if I am in the right path.(Muslim)

However, I realized an herbalist can be better than a Muslim, or a Christian.

In my view, religion is trying to teach people a good behavior to make everything good, but that is not the case today. Religion and Hypocrites and like 5&6

You can be a good person without being a Christian or a Muslim or be in any religious group sha.

what will happen hereafter is what I am trying to get exactly. Because something in me keeps telling me something actually is going to happen. (my view)

I believe in hereafter, I believe there can be an unseen forces whether as one or many controlling us. (just my view)

But, I agreed that neither Bible nor Qur'an is free of contradiction.

They were written by people who claimed it is by inspiration from above.


But still yet I am addicted to my religion, and I am ready to bear the outcome.

However, I can achieve what you expect from me as a human, everybody is my friend when it comes to religion and everything else.


____________________________________________________

Even though I don't think anything can change me, I am still open for discussion from anybody from any religion.

But note that whatever you see me write up there is my opinion only.. I can't prove it to anybody, but I believe in it, nd I'm fine with it.

Butterflyleo:


Morality isn't predetermined because man came before it. First you say it isn't fixed and is fluid next you say it is not able to be changed when it changes from society to society and Individual to individual. Its clear to see all over the world which is why we have sadists, rapists, serial killers, shooters, poachers, human rights abusers etc in every society. That is why laws are even broken because morality IS ALTERED individually to suit our comfort individually which unfortunately could also be against the law.

Morality isn't set in stone simply means it evolves and it is not fixed. I made a mistake, wanted to say it means it is not preterdermined and it is changeable.

We have rapist, poachers, human right abusers in every society and they are immorality people. They are NOT doing what is moral according to the laid out moral principles of those societiesthat is why they are outlawed and seen as criminals. What exactly is your point? That morality doesn't evolve or what? What is your point?

It can be circumvented and done legally. I can take advantage of my fundamental rights and my respect for the fundamental rights of others which is why it was HIDDEN in the first place. Location and non proximity to human population could be my crack in the wall of the moral law of the land.

Besides a certain member of the Royal family in Saudi Arabia Prince Adel Al-Otaibi was arrested some time ago for trafficking pork meat in Israel. He was supposed to have a moral foundation in Saudi Arabia but his INDIVIDUAL COMFORT prevailed and he left Saudi for Israel to embark on what is prohibited in his own country which he should be upholding as a member of the royal family.

This further shows that your claim that morality cannot be changed is erroneous and INDIVIDUALS do so all the time simply because they have no foundation to theirs and like you, are being subjective about it.

By the way, pork trafficking is also illegal in Israel and only acceptable by law in the Christian minority but he not only broke the already known laws in Israel for his own INDIVIDUAL moral comfort but probably also went near Christians to get supplies which also went against his religious morality and made him also focus on his INDIVIDUAL comfort.

You are just dancing and chasing your tail for nothing. As long as you are in Saudi Arabia you CANNOT rear pigs legally. It is immoral to rear pigs in Saudi Arabia but it is legal to do that in Texas. All this your empty talk as no nearing on what am saying. You can not rear pigs in Saudi Arabia legally and morally because it is against the laid out moral laws of the land. You can do it in Texas because it is not against the laid down moral laws of the land. Anything else you say is unnecessary commentary that has nothing to do with what am saying.

Butterflyleo:


It means you FIRST had a belief in some level or some standard. So which do you have?

Which standard do I need to have to show a person that professes love to another but is totally failing at it?

dalaman:


Morality isn't set in stone simply means it evolves and it is not fixed. I made a mistake, wanted to say it means it is not preterdermined and it is changeable.

We have rapist, poachers, human right abusers in every society and they are immorality people. They are NOT doing what is moral according to the laid out moral principles of those societiesthat is why they are outlawed and seen as criminals. What exactly is your point? That morality doesn't evolve or what? What is your point?




You are just dancing and chasing your tail for nothing. As long as you are in Saudi Arabia you CANNOT rear pigs legally. It is immoral to rear pigs in Saudi Arabia but it is legal to do that in Texas. All this your empty talk as no nearing on what am saying. You can not rear pigs in Saudi Arabia legally and morally because it is against the laid out moral laws of the land. You can do it in Texas because it is not against the laid down moral laws of the land. Anything else you say is unnecessary commentary that has nothing to do with what am saying.

You are still not getting it.

People make the law effective or not.

The reason why we have criminals is simply because PEOPLE SEEK THEIR OWN INDIVIDUAL LEVELS OF MORALITY which despite it being against the moral laws of the society, THEY STILL GO AGAINST IT FOR SAKE OF THEIR INDIVIDUAL COMFORT.

I am not arguing against morality but showing you how easily people personalise it thereby making it subjective and thus making them criminals.

My point is that subjective morality is individualized and when push comes to shove would not care about the moral laws of the land but if they can be circumvented or taken advantage of, then their comfort INDIVIDUALLY comes first and not the laws of whatever land.

Talking about Saudi or no Saudi I am not arguing about what can or cannot be done there, I simply showed you how subjective morality holds no foundation because it is selfish and self determinable depending on ones needs and how pressing they are.

You are actually the one confusing yourself in all this.

Your definition for subjective morality is wider than you originally thought and the mere fact that it is subjective clearly shows you that IT IS PERSONAL and not necessarily societal.

dalaman:


Which standard do I need to have to show a person that professes love to another but is totally failing at it?

You need to first have a standard that would show how he wouldn't fail. So which do you have?

johnydon22:
You lot should seriously watch your mental health, paying attention to so much nonsense will really weigh down on you eventually.

True!

LosVikingos:


Hala Madrid

The way I see religion is so close to yours, but I am not an atheist

I am not an extremist, because I have read across so many religions, Why?, because I wanted to be sure if I am in the right path.(Muslim)

However, I realized an herbalist can be better than a Muslim, or a Christian.

In my view, religion is trying to teach people a good behavior to make everything good, but that is not the case today. Religion and Hypocrites and like 5&6

You can be a good person without being a Christian or a Muslim or be in any religious group sha.

what will happen hereafter is what I am trying to get exactly. Because something in me keeps telling me something actually is going to happen. (my view)

I believe in hereafter, I believe there can be an unseen forces whether as one or many controlling us. (just my view)

But, I agreed that neither Bible nor Queen is free of contradiction.

They were written by people who claimed it is by inspiration from above.


But still yet I am addicted to my religion, and I am ready to bear the outcome.

However, I can achieve what you expect from me as a human, everybody is my friend when it comes to religion and everything else.


____________________________________________________

Even though I don't think anything can change me, I am still open for discussion from anybody from any religion.

But note that whatever you see me write up there is my opinion only.. I can't prove it to anybody, but I believe in it, nd I'm fine with it.

This sounds fair. Afterlife belief was one of the most difficult things to let go of on my journey to atheism cuz its been used throughout my life till then to cope with certain things especially the death of loved ones.
While I was a theist I lost my grandmother and she was one of the few humans I knew REALLY loved me and wasn't expecting anything in return for it. her love for me felt so real, so selfless that I can't gather coherent words to do it enough justice. I lost her as a teenager and I used the belief that I'd see her again when I die too to cope with the loss. I've also lost a few people too but my grandmother's hurt the most

When I dumped all religious belief including afterlife it was like my grandmother dying again! like she wasn't really dead before but became dead when I stopped believing I would see her again. it felt as though my dumping religion was what actually killed her! it hurt me for years and made my atheism much harder to accept but I'm over it now

I've also channelled my lack of belief in afterlife for something good, believing it all ends here has made me appreciate my loved ones more, thank them and tell them I love them, that I would be there for them if they need me and I'm capable of helping them. This gives a reciprocal effect as they also (try to) treat me the same way and makes our relationship a tight knit and loving extended family

Yes afterlife belief is something I very well understand the most of all religious ideologies cuz most people use it to cope with so many things so seeing someone say they feel there's something after this life makes me empathise with them

budaatum:
Humpty Dumpty is a figment of the imagination,
but does one refuse to learn to sit securely on a wall because it is?

And we all read Animal Farm, a figment of the imagination, but do we therefore refuse to learn any lessons therein?

Ogbele ooo
This chap is grasping at straws.

One is a figment of the imagination, the other is reality
One has nothing on you, the other has all of you
One doesnt know anything about you, the other knows everything about you.
One is fantasy, the other is real

budaatum, you're comparing apples with oranges mate

Butterflyleo:
@Muttleylaff

Behold this quote





Can you see what I am seeing?

Why don't you quote the whole thing? You see why people call you an hypocrite and lying master? SMH

MuttleyLaff:

budaatum, you're comparing apples with oranges mate

No I am not! And stop setting up a strawman argument no one is having with anyone. It is irrelevant in this discussion whether one sees either as a figment of the imagination, nor does it matter. One can still learn from either, or not. Moreso if one claims to have learnt from a thing, one should expect to be judged by the standard that thing sets!

And oneself does not have to abide by the standards that thing sets!

budaatum:
No I am not!
And stop setting up a strawman argument no one is having with anyone.
It is irrelevant in this discussion whether one sees either as a figment of the imagination, nor does it matter.
One can still learn from either, or not.
Moreso if one claims to have learnt from a thing, one should expect to be judged by the standard set by that thing!

And oneself does not have to abide by the standards that thing sets to do so!

You're mate!
Yes, you are

You started a strawman, I am wriggling out from

Why do you care what Jesus taught?
What's it got to do with you?
Why mention Jesus and His teachings, to score cheap points if you dont believe in Him, dont believe He exists, dont believe in who He is?
Only the Janus-faced pull stunts like that

HardMirror:
mr man shut the f up! You guys are worse than muslims you always paint evil. You have terribly wicked hearts but you want the world to see you as righteous. Hypocrites. There is nothing Jesus like about any of you. So just shut up.

Why don't your colleague who owns this forum make Muslim threads accessible.

Die if you're hard-core atheist.
Amen.

MuttleyLaff:
You behaved badly
You jumped on flamingREED's back, calling him colourful adjectives under the sun
Ridiculed his faith and labelled his God impotent

Are you afraid of death?

It is fair game, considering a prior warning about what will happen to anyone persisting in refusing to toe the line was given
You saw and read the warning before responding to it
It's like you had a death wish
You're like pesin wey go rub soak hinself in petrol, go stand beside barbeque, dey smoke cigarrette

"Igi ganganran ma gun mi loju, atokere la ti n wo"
loosely translated means
"Keep your distance from danger or potential curse"

flamingREED quote that you replied to was addressed only to HardMirror
Why you jumped on it, bothered not only to mention it but also to abuse flamingREED, I am still trying to grasp

Please stop dragging in Jesus, whom you dont believe exist

God bless you joor.
Amen.

flamingREED:


Why don't your colleague who owns this forum make Muslim threads accessible.

Die if you're hard-core atheist.
Amen.

This one that you are shouting "DIE, DIE DIE" up and down.............

Do you belong to "DIE BY HOLY GHOST FIRE MINISTRIES"?

superhumanist:


This one that you are shouting "DIE, DIE DIE" up and down.............

Do you belong to "DIE BY HOLY GHOST FIRE MINISTRIES"?

Probably belongs to MFM, all they do every service is kill the witches and enemies they've been killing every previous service.

bobowaja:
Why don't you quote the whole thing?
You see why people call you an hypocrite and lying master? SMH

What mattered was quoted
the rest werent, because they are irrelevant and inconsequential

You see, talking of telling the truth, answer these two questions now:
1/ Was there an advanced warning given by person in question, asking another person not to, anymore, toe a particular line of action?
2/ Did the person in question,
inform this other person, of the serious consequences if found to intentionally disregard or not pay attention to the cautionary advice given?

superhumanist:


If a religious person tells me that God will send thunder to kill me, I will take it seriously despite not believing in God because

a. There is hatred in the person towards me,
b. It is an insult, because the person thinks of me as an animal that needs some form of phyiscal punishment
c. It is against the rules of nairaland.


Points b and c are very important here on Nairaland. However, such common sense eludes you and some other christians such as butterflyleo, felixomor, sonofthunder and anas09

E pain am. You dey lucky say i no evoke your demons against you.

superhumanist:


This one that you are shouting "DIE, DIE DIE" up and down.............

Do you belong to "DIE BY HOLY GHOST FIRE MINISTRIES"?

End in the night
Like the fool in the Bible.

MuttleyLaff:
You're mate!

You started a strawman, I am wriggling out from

Why do you care what Jesus taught?
What's it got to do with you?
Why mention Jesus and His teachings, to score cheap points if you dont believe in Him, dont believe He exists, dont believe in who He is?
Only the Janus-faced pull stunts like that

I guess this is where your religion limits you. You assume one has to believe a thing before one learns from that thing. I am fortunately not that willing to be stupid and can take my learning from numerous sources without making any of them a god to believe in. But that aside.

Op has claimed he believes and worships Jesus and has set him up as his standard. He has also mentioned me in the title of the thread. All that gives one the right to question him and his standards. Though, this being a public forum, even that right is irrelevant, as one is free to post whatever one wishes, within the rules!

If your desire is to argue the figmentation of the imagination aspect of it, you might want to open a thread. You have no exclusive rights due to your religion, apart from being held up against your words to see if you actually measure up. And in this case, regardless of how much you and op wriggle, you failed!

frank317:


Demons are already dealing with u na... u know what i mean

Frank, You kill your first wife, no kill this one o. Dey demons wey dey inside you kill your first wife, dats why i dey warn you. Dem go strike again o.

Conquer those demons before it'll get out of hand o.

flamingREED:


Why don't your colleague who owns this forum make Muslim threads accessible.

Die if you're hard-core atheist.
Amen.

see a dead man wishing me death. We would all die, funny you could even be the first to go. I am sure by now you are wondering why none of us has died despite all your efforts. Lol

bobowaja:

Why don't you quote the whole thing? You see why people call you an hypocrite and lying master? SMH

Some things are obviously beyond your level of understanding,

This is the whole thing

a. There is hatred in the person towards me,
b. It is an insult, because the person thinks of me as an animal that needs some form of phyiscal punishment
c. It is against the rules of nairaland

Let me break it down for you.

A) There is hatred in the person towards me.

As an atheist such a mindset called hatred should not exist because you hold a subjective morality which is personal and you believe everyone holds a subjective morality ad objectivity does not exist to you. So where did "hatred" come from? The hatred you claim is someone else's subjective morality which is quite acceptable to you who is also subjective in morality so with what opposing world view do you use to term ANYTHING as hatred?

B) It is an insult, because the person thinks of me as an animal that needs some form of phyiscal punishment

Same with hatred, where did INSULT come from? Remember subjectivity?

Also it is on record that atheists do not believe in creationism as that would entail holding unto a divine being or deity so based on this, most if not all atheists would rather swing the way of evolution which terms all humans as ANIMALS. Based on this, he should not be upset when someone sees him as such after all, does he get upset when scientists call him same?

C) it is against the rules of nairaland.

There would be no nairaland if there was FIRST no US.

We came before nairaland and that means we were made for nairaland and not nairaland for us. The rules of nairaland are always circumvented due to subjectivity which is why people tend to deliberately mispell words censored by nairaland and against nairaland rules (something you also often do). So how can you a lawbreaker call another person a lawbreaker over something you are also guilty of?

Understood?

flamingREED:


End in the night
Like the fool in the Bible.

you are just typing rubbish. End in the night ko finish in the morning ni. Low iq dey dey worry you. Read the nonsense you typed and ask yourself if it makes sense to even a daft Arrow like you

Anas09:

E pain am. You dey lucky say i no evoke your demons against you.

hehehehehe!!!! Another Demon whisperer. Oshey baddest. Awon demon commander. Lol. Seems you folks are taking too much communion these days. Pls note that thing contains alchohol and seems you are drunk on it. With a minute, this is worse than what alcohol can do. Hope u aint smoking lizard poo.

Damn. This guys reality is crazier than Harry Potter's

Anas09:

E pain am. You dey lucky say i no evoke your demons against you.

Lol....see madness.

hopefulLandlord:


Probably belongs to MFM, all they do every service is kill the witches and enemies they've been killing every previous service.

foolish people. Always killing enemies. Makes me wonder if they know what true freedom is. Living in bondage of imaginary enemies

budaatum:

I guess this is where your religion limits you. You assume one has to believe a thing before one learns from that thing. I am fortunately not that willing to be stupid and can take my learning from numerous sources without making any of them a god to believe in. But that aside.

Op has claimed he believes and worships Jesus and has set him up as his standard. He has also mentioned me in the title of the thread. All that gives one the right to question him and his standards. Though, this being a public forum, even that right is irrelevant, as one is free to post whatever one wishes, within the rules!

If your desire is to argue the figmentation of the imagination aspect of it, you might want to open a thread. You have no exclusive rights due to your religion, apart from being held up against your words to see if you actually measure up. And in this case, regardless of how much you and op wriggle, you failed!

Where did I mention you in the title of the thread?

Is your moniker or name ATHEISM?

I specifically said the thread is a must read FOR ALL CHRISTIANS and not ALL ATHEISTS. Are you a Christian?

Besides the people I sent a cc to your moniker was not on the list so what lie are you spinning?

Reading a thing is different from responding to it. Claiming you have a right to respond to.my OP because I mentioned you there is a bold faced lie because I didn't.

You barged in despite the fact that you were not invited, nor mentioned, nor solicited to respond.

Was my OP a question that required an answer?

Butterflyleo:


Where did I mention you in the title of the thread?

I knew you'd ask. Yes, my name is atheist.

LosVikingos:


Hala Madrid

The way I see religion is so close to yours, but I am not an atheist

I am not an extremist, because I have read across so many religions, Why?, because I wanted to be sure if I am in the right path.(Muslim)

However, I realized an herbalist can be better than a Muslim, or a Christian.

In my view, religion is trying to teach people a good behavior to make everything good, but that is not the case today. Religion and Hypocrites and like 5&6

You can be a good person without being a Christian or a Muslim or be in any religious group sha.

what will happen hereafter is what I am trying to get exactly. Because something in me keeps telling me something actually is going to happen. (my view)

I believe in hereafter, I believe there can be an unseen forces whether as one or many controlling us. (just my view)

But, I agreed that neither Bible nor Qur'an is free of contradiction.

They were written by people who claimed it is by inspiration from above.


But still yet I am addicted to my religion, and I am ready to bear the outcome.

However, I can achieve what you expect from me as a human, everybody is my friend when it comes to religion and everything else.


____________________________________________________

Even though I don't think anything can change me, I am still open for discussion from anybody from any religion.

But note that whatever you see me write up there is my opinion only.. I can't prove it to anybody, but I believe in it, nd I'm fine with it.

you made a lot of sense. It makes sense to think the way you do. There could be more, who knows.

budaatum:

I knew you'd ask. Yes, my name is atheist.

The title says atheism and not atheist. So where did I mention you in the title as you alleged?

ATHEISM is a worldview

ATHEIST is A PERSON who has that worldview

So where did I mention you?