dalaman:


I've already shown you that there are conflicts. Do you day that there are conflicts?

Are the deeper life and Christ embassy views on female dressing for example in agreement with each other? Is the Young earth creationist view in agreement with the old earth creationist view? What about the anti tithe and pro tithe views? Are they all in agreement with each other?

What are you really on about?

You have shown me absolutely nothing but your PERSONAL OPINIONS.

For your proof to be taken seriously then you must show from the source how there are actually conflicts.

YOU ARE NOT THE CONVENER OF CHRISTIANITY. YOU ARE NOT THE SOURCE OF THEIR MORALITY. SO CANNOT SAY THEY HAVE CONFLICTS BECAUSE YOU ARE ALSO CONFLICTED.

Only their source can show this.

I have told you repeatedly that you cannot claim there are conflicts without proof from the source of the morals of Christianity which is either Jesus or the bible. So where is your proof?

Are you the source of the morals for Christianity for you to say there are conflicts?

You are just flogging yourself for failing and losing this argument woefully.

Can I see them now? Show them or be quiet. If you don't and can't then I would have to end this discussion.

ScienceWatch:
As usual, I commend your compassion and highly developed open mindedness in complex spiritual matters such as this VAXX.

But allow me to respectfully make a brief comment here.

That guy revealed that he is on a spiritual search and it seems that he wants to go forward.
Example: Forward is from no house to owning a house. Forward is from no job to having a job. Forward is no understanding of God to joining a spiritual institution/religion to learn, etc.

We can't go forward spiritually by consulting Atheists, that is a huge step backwards as is subtly explained in the incredible OP. BUTTERFLYLEO did a magnificent job of dismantling the very foundations of Atheism.


SALUTE !!

With all due respect atheism seems irrational. my opinion though. though they claim it is compatible with naturalism but i fear it offer no natural value. i will love to hear from atheist if been atheist comes with any natural value. i mean the ''objective verified evidence of the value'' in seun voice. At least we have all seen the charitable works of religion,schools,hospital etc even if it has come with is own flaws.

Butterflyleo:


You have shown me absolutely nothing but your PERSONAL OPINIONS.

For your proof to be taken seriously then you must show from the source how there are actually conflicts.

YOU ARE NOT THE CONVENER OF CHRISTIANITY. YOU ARE NOT THE SOURCE OF THEIR MORALITY. SO CANNOT SAY THEY HAVE CONFLICTS BECAUSE YOU ARE ALSO CONFLICTED.

Only their source can show this.

I have told you repeatedly that you cannot claim there are conflicts without proof from the source of the morals of Christianity which is either Jesus or the bible. So where is your proof?

Are you the source of the morals for Christianity for you to say there are conflicts?

You are just flogging yourself for failing and losing this argument woefully.

Can I see them now? Show them or be quiet. If you don't and can't then I would have to end this discussion.

You want to shift the direction to source. But I've given you many examples without any of your so called source.

I asked you questions instead of answering you are running empty commentary.

Are the moral claims on female dressing BTW christ embassy and deeper life are not in conflict? I've shown you clear Co flick and you are busy shouting and talking about some elusive source.

Anas09:

These are the kind of books you read and you'd expect me to pause and talk to you? No. We flow at different wave lengths. I read Biographies of great men like Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln. Alexander the Great, Winston Churchhill and the present American President Donald J. Trump. What made these men who they were and are.

Gerrout of here.

U read these kind of books and u are still like this... no hope for u

dalaman:


You want to shift the direction to source. But I've given you many examples without any of your so called source.

I asked you questions instead of answering you are running empty commentary.

Are the moral claims on female dressing BTW christ embassy and deeper life are not in conflict? I've shown you clear Co flick and you are busy shouting and talking about some elusive source.

Discussion closed. I gave you numerous chances to substantiate your claim but you clearly couldn't.

Next time do not make claims you cannot back up even from the very place you said is being conflicted.

Thanks

frank317:


U read these kind of books and u are still like this... no hope for u

It's one thing to read, quite another to understand.

shaybebaby:

Breakfast is served. Choke on it.
"Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone, and the six sequels that followed it, worked the kind of magic most publishers could only dream of, selling well over 450 million copies and turning their author into a billionaire. Inspiring a devotion among fans last seen around the time of Jesus Christ, Potter became a global phenomenon."

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/20-years-harry-potter-fuss/amp/

Shay, would you believe I was unable to read any of them to my utter chagrin? But from the little I've gotten, anecdotal mostly, I've severely missed out. I dream of making them available in Nigeria someday, as they weren't ard I feel still aren't widely available there yet. The oppobrium they would raise amongst the religious bent would be great marketing!

Butterflyleo:


Thoughts of good or evil did not just arrive. They are already prewired into our DNA. Something we did not influence.

That is not the perceived or generally accepted wisdom on the topic butter. It is widely understood that morals are learnt from ones society. You would also note the numerous teachers (Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, mothers, to name a few) who have come to teach morals to humans. They could hardly have been necessary if morals needed not be taught because they "are already prewired into your DNA".

budaatum:

That is not the perceived or generally accepted wisdom on the topic butter. It is widely understood that morals are learnt from ones society. You would also note the numerous teachers (Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, mothers, to name a few) who have come to teach morals to humans. They could hardly have been necessary if morals needed not be taught because they "are already prewired into your DNA".

You don't get it as well.

Anything alive is traced to DNA level. DNA responds to stimuli and everything in you exists due to your DNA coding.

Your brain functioning the way it is is due to the " wiring" of your DNA units which brought about your nerves etc in your brain.

Every action or reaction came PREWIRED.

Take it or leave it.

Without this prewiring nothing is taught or learned or understood.

I am done here.

Butterflyleo:


I am speaking about as a christian and not as AN EVERY DAY INDIVIDUAL. As Christians we cease to be just INDIVIDUALS because we are in this world BUT NOT OF THIS WORLD.

This means that our moral codes are not derived from here but came preset.

Besides even evolutionary scientists also tell us that moral responses were first on a genetic level prior to anything else so if these responses were not preset, on a genetic level how then would we know right from wrong without the Involvement of our DNA?

Well, the preset mode has not seemed to done many much good, is my view. And it seems God doesn't agree with it either, or why send the numerous prophets to teach what you claim is already set in your DNA?

Nor am I aware that any "evolutionary scientists also tell us that moral responses were first on a genetic level prior to anything else", and can hardly believe they would since even you say, "they also admit that the origin of DNA is still a mystery to them".

But I see you have called on your encyclopedia, vaxx to provide references. I await them.

Butterflyleo:


You don't get it as well.

Anything alive is traced to DNA level. DNA responds to stimuli and everything in you exists due to your DNA coding.

Your brain functioning the way it is is due to the " wiring" of your DNA units which brought about your nerves etc in your brain.

Every action or reaction came PREWIRED.

Take it or leave it.

Without this prewiring nothing is taught or learned or understood.

I am done here.

You are wrong butter. My brain does not function the way it is because my DNA prewired me to. I, buda, function the way I do because of the culture I imbibed and the learning I have done.

vaxx:
With all due respect atheism seems irrational. my opinion though. though they claim it is compatible with naturalism but i fear it over no natural value. i will love to hear from atheist if been atheist comes with any natural value. i mean the ''objective verified evidence of the value'' in seun voice. At least we have all seen the charitable works of religion,schools,hospital etc even if it has come with is own flaws.

Well said Sir VAXX.

The objective, verified scientific evidence of the objective VALUE of Atheism is extreme irrationality as is beautifully explained in this superb award winning OP by BUTTERFLYLEO.

budaatum:

Shay, would you believe I was unable to read any of them to my utter chagrin? But from the little I've gotten, anecdotal mostly, I've severely missed out. I dream of making them available in Nigeria someday, as they weren't ard I feel still aren't widely available there yet. The oppobrium they would raise amongst the religious bent would be great marketing!

Tut! Tut! Budaa, how remiss of you! I would say watch the movies but then again, movies based in books never do them justice.

Still, one of the notable points about the books and their success is that it is enjoyed by both adults and children alike. Also the story of the writer herself made their existence all the more remarkable.

If it continues in this vein, I reckon it may well outstrip bible sales in about a century.

Butterflyleo:


So you agree that THEY INTERPRET THE BIBLE and not their self derived subjective views.

You saying an individual's interpretation of the Bible is not their subjective view?

I wonder why individuals subjectively interpret much of it differently then?!

shaybebaby:

Tut! Tut! Budaa, how remiss of you! I would say watch the movies but then again, movies based in books never do them justice.

Still, one of the notable points about the books and their success is that it is enjoyed by both adults and children alike. Also the story of the writer herself made their existence all the more remarkable.

If it continues in this vein, I reckon it may well outstrip bible sales in about a century.

Yep, "Tut! Tut! Budaa" , indeed. They were published long after I lost patience for fiction really, a fact that saddens me immensely. And the movies felt like insults to the books, I being biased against a movie if a book were available. Hopefully, I'd get the time to listen to them on audio someday.

budaatum:

You are wrong butter. My brain does not function the way it is because my DNA prewired me to. I, buda, function the way I do because of the culture I imbibed and the learning I have done.

Then you must be a remarkable exception my dear.

Atheist deceptively punt the evolution of humans from apes knowing that that feat is exceptional.

Yet we realize that apes also have free will, many apes refused to "EVOLVE" because they knew they would have to mock their creator if they followed the crazy group of apes that decided to EVOLVE.
The OP written so beautifully BUTTERFLYLEO makes me wonder if the evolved apes are now really atheists ?

Butterflyleo:
Not by someone/ something in your context and view but by someone/ something beyond your view.

Thoughts of good or evil did not just arrive. They are already prewired into our DNA. Something we did not influence.

budaatum:
That is not the perceived or generally accepted wisdom on the topic butter. It is widely understood that morals are learnt from ones society. You would also note the numerous teachers (Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, mothers, to name a few) who have come to teach morals to humans. They could hardly have been necessary if morals needed not be taught because they "are already prewired into your DNA".

Butterflyleo:
You don't get it as well.

Anything alive is traced to DNA level.
DNA responds to stimuli and everything in you exists due to your DNA coding.

Your brain functioning the way it is is due to the " wiring" of your DNA units which brought about your nerves etc in your brain.

Every action or reaction came PREWIRED.

Take it or leave it.

Without this prewiring nothing is taught or learned or understood.

I am done here.

Butterflyleo, in a matter or subject like this, you'll have your work cut out with bud

The conscience bears conscious witness, to sense & know, what behaviour is right and what behaviour is wrong

Example: Father regularly fingering his daughter
or daughter regularly allowing father's little soldier to march upandan in the honeypot
There must be something wrong with the father's conscience, if he doesnt know he is behaving badly fingering his daughter
There must be something wrong with the daughter's conscience, if it is not pricked, for the daughter to somehow know that what her father is regularly doing, is wrong

This among other things, is what Butterflyleo is saying is encoded in our DNA

MuttleyLaff:




Butterflyleo, in a matter or subject like this, you'll have your work cut out with bud

The conscience bears conscious witness, to sense & know, what behaviour is right and what behaviour is wrong

Example: Father regularly fingering his daughter
or daughter regularly allowing father's little soldier to march upandan in the honeypot
There must be something wrong with the father's conscience, if he doesnt know he is behaving badly fingering his daughter
There must be something wrong with the daughter's conscience, if it is not pricked, for the daughter somewhat not know that her father is doing is wrong

This among other things, is what Butterflyleo is saying is encoded in our DNA

What you saying muttley? That the morals of the father and daughter described above is wired into their DNA provided they are Christians, as butter is saying?

vaxx:
With all due respect atheism seems irrational. my opinion though. though they claim it is compatible with naturalism but i fear it offer no natural value. i will love to hear from atheist if been atheist comes with any natural value. i mean the ''objective verified evidence of the value'' in seun voice. At least we have all seen the charitable works of religion,schools,hospital etc even if it has come with is own flaws.

Very true VAXX. Could it be that the reason atheists claim that they are compatible with naturalism, is because only the Atheists has evolved from fish and apes

budaatum:
What you saying muttley?
That the morals of the father and daughter described above is wired into their DNA provided they are Christians, as butter is saying?

The sense to know, what behaviour is right and what behaviour is wrong
Conscience, whoever you are, is hardwired in all

MuttleyLaff:




Butterflyleo, in a matter or subject like this, you'll have your work cut out with bud

The conscience bears conscious witness, to sense & know, what behaviour is right and what behaviour is wrong

Example: Father regularly fingering his daughter
or daughter regularly allowing father's little soldier to march upandan in the honeypot
There must be something wrong with the father's conscience, if he doesnt know he is behaving badly fingering his daughter
There must be something wrong with the daughter's conscience, if it is not pricked, for the daughter somewhat not know that her father is doing is wrong

This among other things, is what Butterflyleo is saying is encoded in our DNA

Aptly put!

There would be no brain without a DNA coding. Every single working part of the brain that makes it what is as the centre for thought, response, knowledge, understanding etc and the various parts it has been split into in order to achieve this purpose is all down to DELIBERATE DNA CODING in order to SPECIFICALLY ACHIEVE THIS AIM.

This was why I said to him that Without this prewiring nothing is taught or learned or understood.

No morals would exist without the very FOUNDATION known as DNA!!!!!

PERIOD!!

Atheists always tend to be close minded in view of these things.

Again I say, you put it aptly.

Butterflyleo:


Not by someone/ something in your context and view but by someone/ something beyond your view.

Thoughts of good or evil did not just arrive. They are already prewired into our DNA. Something we did not influence.

It is incredible what DNA is revealing about the spirit nature of mankind.

For instance the DNA markers of a man with a dead conscience a murderer, rapist, crook is different from a man with high morals.

Soon one can do a quick DNA check to know who is atheist.

MuttleyLaff:
The sense to know, what behaviour is right and what behaviour is wrong
Conscience, whoever you are, is hardwired in all

conscience
ˈkɒnʃ(ə)ns/ noun
a person's moral sense of right and wrong, viewed as acting as a guide to one's behaviour.

So, a person (who by mere virtue is subjective) has a moral sense of right and wrong that is hardwired?

ScienceWatch:

For instance the DNA markers of a man with a dead conscience a murderer, rapist, crook is
different from a man with high morals.

I wonder what it is then that makes one half of identical DNA sharing gene twins an esteemed medical doctor and the other a mass murderer?

Butterflyleo:
Aptly put!

There would be no brain without a DNA coding.
Every single working part of the brain that makes it what is as the centre for thought, response, knowledge, understanding etc and the various parts it has been split into in order to achieve this purpose is all down to DELIBERATE DNA CODING in order to SPECIFICALLY ACHIEVE THIS AIM.

This was why I said to him that Without this prewiring nothing is taught or learned or understood.

No morals would exist without the very FOUNDATION known as DNA!!!!!

PERIOD!!

Atheists always tend to be close minded in view of these things.

Again I say, you put it aptly.

budaatum:
conscience
ˈkɒnʃ(ə)ns/ noun
a person's moral sense of right and wrong, viewed as acting as a guide to one's behaviour.

So, a person (who by mere virtue is subjective) has a moral sense of right and wrong that is hardwired?

It's even bigger than "There would be no brain without a DNA coding"
"There would be no brain without a DNA coding" is tip of a very huge or massive ice berg

Blood is important, very important
and that is why Jesus' blood is a game changer

DNA, genes and chromosomes
All these three are in the blood and play important roles
- DNA has the building block information "blue-print" of the cell
- Genes are units of heredity which are transferred from a parent to child(ren)
and used to determine some characteristics of the child(ren)
- Chromosomes determines whether to be male or female

Apart from DNA, genes and chromosomes, there is the role the blood circulatory system plays in us having good health
This is by delivering nutrients and oxygen to all cells and organs in the body
We all know the implication of having high blood pressure (HBP)

Adam had the first DNA in his blood,
but a problem reared its head with Adam as something terribly wrong happened in Adam's blood the moment he fell
The first man's flesh-template became corrupt after the fall
and if the life of the flesh is in the blood, then what becomes of the flesh, if the DNA pool or blood has become corrupted

We all know that Cain married his sister
Revered Abraham married his sister
but the reason why incest got discontinued by God, is to guard against genetic disorders, as the DNA pool has begun to degenerate.

Fast forward, Jesus blood was conceived by God when the Holy Ghost came upon Mary
Now since Jesus' blood did not come from any earthly father, this means the sin nature from Adam couldn't be passed on to Him
Also since Mary's blood, like any other pregnant mother's blood which doesnt mix with the foetus' blood, did not mix with Jesus' blood either
this means, we have a Jesus blood, free and independent of corrupted DNA and genes

The blood of Jesus Christ, is similar to replacing a corrupted Microsoft Word template ''normal.dot'' file with a new one
and having stored default settings such as font, font size, content of a file etc restored to the application.
This done in order to fix problems when creating new Microsoft Word documents
which were impossible to do due to the template ''normal.dot'' file being corrupted before it got replaced with a new one

Bud, regardless, everyone has the still small voice, inner voice, voice within that bears witness to what is wrong or right

Butterflyleo:


Show me an adult one which is devoid of majority being kids

Most kite festivals are full of adults.

Here is one in Fano Denmark, home to the biggest kite festival

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SADA0ob8Hns


Please, show me the children in the video. You will always remain a liar

Butterflyleo:


Discussion closed. I gave you numerous chances to substantiate your claim but you clearly couldn't.

Next time do not make claims you cannot back up even from the very place you said is being conflicted.

Thanks

You gave me chances to substantiate which claim? I've already proven my case. Christian display subjective morality and I've given clear examples that you could not deny.

I asked you if they were conflicting or not buto yu could not answer and you are here yapping bull. You claim Christian morality is objective but can not give a simple and clear example. I've given numerous examples to show that it's subjective, something you couldn't deny.

You are busy yapping about source and other nonsense that has nothing to do with my points.

Where is your example of objective Christian morality as displayed by Christians? Where is it?

budaatum:

Yep, "Tut! Tut! Budaa" , indeed. They were published long after I lost patience for fiction really, a fact that saddens me immensely. And the movies felt like insults to the books, I being biased against a movie if a book were available. Hopefully, I'd get the time to listen to them on audio someday.

What you waiting for? Apparently, it is narrated by Stephen Fry (a wordsmith and ever so eloquent) on Audible.

Audible gives you on month free trial when you sign up so you can listen to the book for free.

I just finished listening to the Alchemist, narrated by Jeremy Irons and I must say, it was a very pleasant listening experience.

superhumanist:



Most kite festivals are full of adults.

Here is one in Fano Denmark, home to the biggest kite festival

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SADA0ob8Hns


Please, show me the children in the video. You will always remain a liar

Sorry but the largest is in Berck France followed by The International Kite Festival which takes place in Gujarat India. The festival is called Uttarayan.

Denmark does not come close.

Look it up and be ashamed and how moronic you can be.

Please if you wouldn't mind you can stop trying to force your self styled moronic ways on me.

budaatum:

conscience
ˈkɒnʃ(ə)ns/ noun
a person's moral sense of right and wrong, viewed as acting as a guide to one's behaviour.

So, a person (who by mere virtue is subjective) has a moral sense of right and wrong that is hardwired?

Because you are a spiritual leader in your own right, the concept of conscience as a spiritual force is easier for you to understand than materialistic atheists.

The implications of conscience as expounded by BUTTERFLYLEO and MUTTLEYLAF as DNA hardwiring or conscience is that morality is in essence not taught. But in a secular setup it is taught as a Mental assent.

Butterflyleo:


Sorry but the largest is in Berck France followed by The International Kite Festival which takes place in Gujarat India. The festival is called Uttarayan.

Denmark does not come close.

Look it up and be ashamed and how moronic you can be.

Please if you wouldn't mind you can stop trying to force your self styled moronic ways on me.

LMAO , That slowpoke has no shame.

budaatum:

I wonder what it is then that makes one have of identical DNA sharing gene twins an esteemed medical doctor and the other a mass murderer?

Very interesting question BUDAATUM.
Identical twins and their DNA. Why can there be the extremes that you emphasize

I leave the shocking truth for you to answer because of your spiritual experience.