Solar Power Training

JEZ POWER COMPANY LIMITED has started training for the following courses:

√ Inverter Installation,

√ Solar Panel Installation,

√ Inverter & Solar Panel Installation.

Workshop registration is on.

For more enquiries,

0803.334.3911, 0810.026.7313.

JezPower.com

Office address:
5, Epirikom Road, Opposite St. Peter's Anglican Church by Wimpey Junction, Port Harcourt, Rivers State.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
My Oga Pranil,

These are the very same immersion heaters I use for battery capacity testing and also for panel and CC benchmark tests.

Boiling water is always a good way to use up excess energy.

For this solar water heating scenario, what will be the working principle to keep the hot water tank topped off with fresh water as the hot water boils away or better yet how does one incorporate a DC thermostat capable of breaking large currents?

When I first thought along these lines, I thought it best to undersize the panels relative to the water heater so the water doesnt really boil off/get to boiling point on an average solar day.

Another struggle I face is connecting securely to the heater terminals - they are so small and tightly clustered one is always afraid of a shortcircuit and no sooner does one finally get positive and negative terminals connected, the battle against corrosion due to exposure to moisture starts.

for topping up you can use a normal float if the tank is big or the smaller versionfor50,100 ltr tanks

for temp control, the simplest is to add some additional load in series or parallel which will reduce the heating using PTC elements ( teh resistance changes in response to temp)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/LJXH-PTC-Thermostat-Aluminum-Heating-Element-Heater-Plate-60-120-200-Degrees-AC-DC-24-48/32855627244.html

Alternatively use a digital sensor with contactor/SCR ( expensive and prone to failure especially outdoor)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-12V-Digital-LCD-Temperature-Controller-Heating-Cooling-Thermostat-with-Probe-for-Warehouse-Water-Heaters-Micro/32859805084.html

But it will be difficult to boil say 100 LTr using 200 /300 watt element alone



for the corrosion it is very easy in fact you should be doing it for every exposed terminal - especially batteries - apply petroleum jelly

or you can get one of that Nano coating spray sold by car dealers

On my 12v 600w immersion heater, the positive and negative terminals are very close together - less than an half inch clearance - also very small such that it is hard to fit a reasonable gauge cable and terminal lug on them.

At bolded, never underestimate human ingenuity/stupidity - I once bent a clothes hanger wire and used it to short a 12v battery - turns out they make very good heating elements - another ocassion, I retrofitted a battery load tester - took out the metallic element, attached 35mm cables and shorted it to a battery with the metal element immersed in a bucket of water - dumped the entire battery into the water within an hour - water was boiling feverishly and the 35mm cable burned my hands when I touched the exposed copper - I soon realised this piece of metal would even take 24v or 48v - only difference was in the quantity of heat generated - imagine 100amps at 24v - I soon abandoned this folly and went on to more productive things.

But my question remains - in the below image, how to safely crimp on DC cables to such flimsy connections - I ruled out solder for many reasons

pranil:


for topping up you can use a normal float if the tank is big or the smaller versionfor50,100 ltr tanks

for temp control, the simplest is to add some additional load in series or parallel which will reduce the heating..


But it will be difficult to boil say 100 LTr using 200 /300 watt element alone



for the corrosion it is very easy in fact you should be doing it for every exposed terminal - especially batteries - apply petroleum jelly

or you can get one of that Nano coating spray sold by car dealers

Hi house, can somebody suggest a good 5kva chinco inverter with minimal no load consumption. It is urgently needed for an application

Zinox IPowerPlus? The no load power draw is about 50watts, it runs at 48v with a 60 to 80amp charger built in for the AC side and an average performing 60amp MPPT controller as well. Has a host of user configurable customizations all done via software settings on the inbuilt LCD screen.

It is transformerless and will handle ACs and motors BUT STRICTLY NO RESISTIVE LOADs like iron or microwave. In all things best to keep your loads under 2kw for this machine.

Do you have a budget? It costs in the ~300k range. Most likely the price is slightly less by now. You may be able to get a similar Axpert clone without the MPPT built in for a better price.

mrmachine:
Hi house, can somebody suggest a good 5kva chinco inverter with minimal no load consumption. It is urgently needed for an application

NiyiOmoIyunade:
On my 12v 600w immersion heater, the positive and negative terminals are very close together - less than an half inch clearance - also very small such that it is hard to fit a reasonable gauge cable and terminal lug on them.

At bolded, never underestimate human ingenuity/stupidity - I once bent a clothes hanger wire and used it to short a 12v battery - turns out they make very good heating elements - another ocassion, I retrofitted a battery load tester - took out the metallic element, attached 35mm cables and shorted it to a battery with the metal element immersed in a bucket of water - dumped the entire battery into the water within an hour - water was boiling feverishly and the 35mm cable burned my hands when I touched the exposed copper - I soon realised this piece of metal would even take 24v or 48v - only difference was in the quantity of heat generated - imagine 100amps at 24v - I soon abandoned this folly and went on to more productive things.

But my question remains - in the below image, how to safely crimp on DC cables to such flimsy connections - I ruled out solder for many reasons

easiest will be to attach a T shape Busbar ( piece of Cu flat) The top ( Horizontal part will be connected to two bolts and the Vertical to cable) - can be easily made from earthing flat used in lightning protection . for piece of mind you can even sleeve the whole things leaving enough space for Flat washers to make contact

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Zinox IPowerPlus? The no load power draw is about 50watts, it runs at 48v with a 60 to 80amp charger built in for the AC side and an average performing 60amp MPPT controller as well. Has a host of user configurable customizations all done via software settings on the inbuilt LCD screen.

It is transformerless and will handle ACs and motors BUT STRICTLY NO RESISTIVE LOADs like iron or microwave. In all things best to keep your loads under 2kw for this machine.

Do you have a budget? It costs in the ~300k range. Most likely the price is slightly less by now. You may be able to get a similar Axpert clone without the MPPT built in for a better price.

Thanks Mr Niyi. The issue is that I don't have control over what they would plug o. I would love the one that has no restriction but still appreciable no load consumption. Thanks sir

mrmachine:


Thanks Mr Niyi. The issue is that I don't have control over what they would plug o. I would love the one that has no restriction but still appreciable no load consumption. Thanks sir

if you have budget you can get victron Multi ( 5 KW )900K NGN ( 10 KW peak ) they have multistage protections and handel overload extremely well and gracefully

Zero Load is between 15 W to 30 watt for 5 KW


https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-MultiPlus-inverter-charger--800VA-5kVA-EN.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SXtGIx0x5w

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Zinox IPowerPlus? The no load power draw is about 50watts, it runs at 48v with a 60 to 80amp charger built in for the AC side and an average performing 60amp MPPT controller as well. Has a host of user configurable customizations all done via software settings on the inbuilt LCD screen.

It is transformerless and will handle ACs and motors BUT STRICTLY NO RESISTIVE LOADs like iron or microwave. In all things best to keep your loads under 2kw for this machine.

Do you have a budget? It costs in the ~300k range. Most likely the price is slightly less by now. You may be able to get a similar Axpert clone without the MPPT built in for a better price.

My understanding is a bit different. Inductive loads like AC, pumps were more of a challenge for the transformerless inverters due to their low surge abilities. Irons and microwaves have never been an issue. They don't surge they draw a steady amount of powers. Please help me correct my misconception that I have held for years.

You can use a current limiting device (found on AliExpress) on the AC side. Oga Pranil had previously posted links to such a device - size it for about 1.8kw on a 5kva inverter like the Zinox and you should be safe.

Such a current limiting device should cost under 10k I believe.

mrmachine:


Thanks Mr Niyi. The issue is that I don't have control over what they would plug o. I would love the one that has no restriction but still appreciable no load consumption. Thanks sir

Oga Chris.

You are probably right in the general case. But for this specific Zinox IPowerPlus I have ascertained it easily gets fried if you use an iron or microwave or other resistive load on it. Perhaps one could get by with resistive loads under 500w but certainly a 1.1kw microwave and 1.3kw iron used separately but on a regular basis ruined my first Zinox 5kva within 3 months and the peak load never passed 2.2kw at any time - meanwhile said inverter runs 2 units of 1hp ACs with ease at another location.

After Zinox fixed it under warranty the first time, they warned me strictly to never iron or microwave with it again - same inverter is still firing strong in my Ibadan family house till date.

People that use irons and microwaves on the Axpert type inverters typically stack two or more inverters to share the load.

chris81964:


My understanding is a bit different. Inductive loads like AC, pumps were more of a challenge for the transformerless inverters due to their low surge abilities. Irons and microwaves have never been an issue. They don't surge they draw a steady amount of powers. Please help me correct my misconception that I have held for years.

pranil:


if you have budget you can get victron Multi ( 5 KW )900K NGN ( 10 KW peak ) they have multistage protections and handel overload extremely well and gracefully

Zero Load is between 15 W to 30 watt for 5 KW


https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-MultiPlus-inverter-charger--800VA-5kVA-EN.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SXtGIx0x5w

Ha Ha, that's way above budget chief. That's why I said chinco inverter with a good build

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Oga Chris.

You are probably right in the general case. But for this specific Zinox IPowerPlus I have ascertained it easily gets fried if you use an iron or microwave or other resistive load on it. Perhaps one could get by with resistive loads under 500w but certainly a 1.1kw microwave and 1.3kw iron used separately but on a regular basis ruined my first Zinox 5kva within 3 months and the peak load never passed 2.2kw at any time - meanwhile said inverter runs 2 units of 1hp ACs with ease at another location.

After Zinox fixed it under warranty the first time, they warned me strictly to never iron or microwave with it again - same inverter is still firing strong in my Ibadan family house till date.

People that use irons and microwaves on the Axpert type inverters typically stack two or more inverters to share the load.

We can't really call them 5kva then

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Oga Chris.

You are probably right in the general case. But for this specific Zinox IPowerPlus I have ascertained it easily gets fried if you use an iron or microwave or other resistive load on it. Perhaps one could get by with resistive loads under 500w but certainly a 1.1kw microwave and 1.3kw iron used separately but on a regular basis ruined my first Zinox 5kva within 3 months and the peak load never passed 2.2kw at any time - meanwhile said inverter runs 2 units of 1hp ACs with ease at another location.

After Zinox fixed it under warranty the first time, they warned me strictly to never iron or microwave with it again - same inverter is still firing strong in my Ibadan family house till date.

People that use irons and microwaves on the Axpert type inverters typically stack two or more inverters to share the load.

Thank you for the answer. I think Zinox was being lazy. Voltronics power had a serious quality control issues with the Axpert 5 kva units. They failed after so many cycles. There is a video on YouTube that gets into it. They corrected the issue after 2016 or 17 I was told, An Iron heats up for 30 seconds and then stops and can go for another minute before the heating element comes on again for a shorter period. I can't see how that would stress your inverter but wetin I sabi. We used a microwave on the 3 kva Axpert (a big microwave), the inverter died because of a short circuit in the house wiring. The bare wires touched the chassis of the inverter after a Kazeem electrician had done work. It lasted over 2 years with Microwave use. My experiences are a bit different. Does not make me right or you wrong. I hope we are all learning from the experience and the information that we share.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
You can use a current limiting device (found on AliExpress) on the AC side. Oga Pranil had previously posted links to such a device - size it for about 1.8kw on a 5kva inverter like the Zinox and you should be safe.

Such a current limiting device should cost under 10k I believe.

Oga Pranil,

Please help post the name or link to the current limiting device. Thanks

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Oga Chris.

You are probably right in the general case. But for this specific Zinox IPowerPlus I have ascertained it easily gets fried if you use an iron or microwave or other resistive load on it. Perhaps one could get by with resistive loads under 500w but certainly a 1.1kw microwave and 1.3kw iron used separately but on a regular basis ruined my first Zinox 5kva within 3 months and the peak load never passed 2.2kw at any time - meanwhile said inverter runs 2 units of 1hp ACs with ease at another location.

After Zinox fixed it under warranty the first time, they warned me strictly to never iron or microwave with it again - same inverter is still firing strong in my Ibadan family house till date.

People that use irons and microwaves on the Axpert type inverters typically stack two or more inverters to share the load.

Very strange. I am surprised a 5kva rated inverter will find it difficult to power a 1.3kw resistive load. I suspect the nameplate rating of the inverter does not match the actual real rating. Well, now we know. Thanks for sharing

chris81964:


Thank you for the answer. I think Zinox was being lazy. Voltronics power had a serious quality control issues with the Axpert 5 kva units. They failed after so many cycles. There is a video on YouTube that gets into it. They corrected the issue after 2016 or 17 I was told, An Iron heats up for 30 seconds and then stops and can go for another minute before the heating element comes on again for a shorter period. I can't see how that would stress your inverter but wetin I sabi. We used a microwave on the 3 kva Axpert (a big microwave), the inverter died because of a short circuit in the house wiring. The bare wires touched the chassis of the inverter after a Kazeem electrician had done work. It lasted over 2 years with Microwave use. My experiences are a bit different. Does not make me right or you wrong. I hope we are all learning from the experience and the information that we share.

KAZEEM ELECTRICIAN.

checkout the link below.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32863099171.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.518.61a43c0063gJhA

NairaBaba:


Oga Pranil,

Please help post the name or link to the current limiting device. Thanks

makawhy201:
checkout the link below.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32863099171.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.518.61a43c0063gJhA

Thanks

Same as mine... Inductive loads are the biggest challenge to transformerless inverters during to high start surge

chris81964:


My understanding is a bit different. Inductive loads like AC, pumps were more of a challenge for the transformerless inverters due to their low surge abilities. Irons and microwaves have never been an issue. They don't surge they draw a steady amount of powers. Please help me correct my misconception that I have held for years.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Oga Chris.

You are probably right in the general case. But for this specific Zinox IPowerPlus I have ascertained it easily gets fried if you use an iron or microwave or other resistive load on it. Perhaps one could get by with resistive loads under 500w but certainly a 1.1kw microwave and 1.3kw iron used separately but on a regular basis ruined my first Zinox 5kva within 3 months and the peak load never passed 2.2kw at any time - meanwhile said inverter runs 2 units of 1hp ACs with ease at another location.

After Zinox fixed it under warranty the first time, they warned me strictly to never iron or microwave with it again - same inverter is still firing strong in my Ibadan family house till date.

People that use irons and microwaves on the Axpert type inverters typically stack two or more inverters to share the load.

I think this position is very personal to your own case and it doesn't conform to any electrical standard. I feel it will be proper you keep it as a personal experience such that you will not mistakenly mislead someone else.

mrmachine:


We can't really call them 5kva then

It is really 5KVA 4 KW at 25 DEG C you have to derate it on heavy load ( as the ambient may not be ideal ) so safe bet will be 3 KW at 40 DEG which means on heavy loads it will suffer - I normally run my 10 KVA inverter regularly at 7 KW ( inverter AC load so nearly unity PF)
But I have an exhaust fan which kicks in at 31 DEG ambient to keep things cool

Even strong inverter like Victron is only 3.7 KW at 40 DEG ambient ( mind you it is actually 4 KW at 25 DEG C) while ipower is 4KW.

The newer models I posted a while back are designed now for 5 KW at 25 DEG C

NairaBaba:


Oga Pranil,

Please help post the name or link to the current limiting device. Thanks

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-quality-current-limiter-lirait-appliances-0-5A-32A-tutamen-control-switch-demand-limiter-free-shipping/32417613258.html
My experience was not so great 2 failed out of 3 in 6 months )

I might have one lying around somewhere rated 10 amp ( 2.5 KW)

( probably because I was experimenting to reduce current on the generator drawn by a heavy duty charger )

makawhy201:
checkout the link below.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32863099171.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.518.61a43c0063gJhA

Nice find. Tomzon is more reliable than the brand I suggested

richmon74:


I think this position is very personal to your own case and it doesn't conform to any electrical standard. I feel it will be proper you keep it as a personal experience such that you will not mistakenly mislead someone else.

Well said !!!

pranil:


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-quality-current-limiter-lirait-appliances-0-5A-32A-tutamen-control-switch-demand-limiter-free-shipping/32417613258.html
My experience was not so great 2 failed out of 3 in 6 months )

I might have one lying around somewhere rated 10 amp ( 2.5 KW)

( probably because I was experimenting to reduce current on the generator drawn by a heavy duty charger )

Thanks

So I let this sit for a while, then I went back to reread the original question and responses offered.

I agree with Oga Chris, DMerciful and yourself about the typical constraints of transformerless inverters in general viz a viz the type of loads they can easily carry and I said as much in my response to Oga Chris.

When I think about it, how a device actually behaves with a load is specific to its own internal design and operating environment - so I have been at a residence where they used a 1.4kva/1.5kva Luminous to power a medium sized freezer and large fridge for years with zero trouble, yet I have a Sinergy 1.5kva (similar Indian design) that always beeps overload and trips off when my mid-size fridge's compressor picks up. Similarly and if I recall correctly, Zeestone once told me of the troubles he had using a PSC Solar or was it Contec 2.5kva inverter to power a large fridge/freezer - it kept beeping overload and tripping off. Now one asks, why would a 150w load that surges to say 1kw max present a problem to my 1.5kva inverter when it is the only load and ditto why does a 2kw/2.5kva inverter struggle with a 300w compressor?

I used a 3kw Rubitec(Must PowerStar IR type) for about 2 years (replacement for my Zinox) and routinely loaded it 2.8kw and it ran without trouble - I would have the 1hp AC on plus ironing or microwave so always either AC + Iron or AC + Microwave and other light houseloads including fridge and water dispenser, sometimes 2hp AC + Fridge + Water Dispenser and it ran. Yet I know a location who bought one of the earlier 7.5kva Prag inverters which had a similar MustPower design and the machine broke several times on running 2 ACs (2hp and 1.5hp) + 2 freezers and other general loads till the owner (a restaurant) abandoned it. One can go on and on.

Anytime Zeestone tries to get me to try a new product e.g new 5kva Inverter or new battery brand or any new stuff for a client, I always say 'let us stick with the one we know that is already tested and trusted' because I believe 3.5kva in one inverter brand may behave very differently than another 3.5kva of another brand - beyond the transformer type or design, many other aspects of the internal setup and operating environment will come to play.

This Zinox in question, I have seen used with 1hp AC and other basic houseloads and no trouble, as I have said in this post and several others before, it is an excellent inverter with many features provided it is used within its design limits and remember I actually recommended it to the OP as a good choice. In my own case I used it only with either of my iron or microwave (didnt dream of using AC on inverter at the time) and it broke within 3 months - the service center diagnosis was "power card damaged due to overload" - since the inverter has a digital display and I was always monitoring the load readout, I know it never passed the 2kw mark and it was mounted on the balcony yet the service center said it was overloaded and asked specifically if I had used microwave or iron on it. Again the unit I have was an early buy in 2015/2016 - perhaps newer models have all the flaws fixed. I think Oga Pranil mentioned loading it with 7kw of ACs (he has 2 units in parallel to make about 10kva), it would be nice to see how it holds up to running 7kw of heating or resistive loads for a while

richmon74:


I think this position is very personal to your own case and it doesn't conform to any electrical standard. I feel it will be proper you keep it as a personal experience such that you will not mistakenly mislead someone else.

Lolz my Oga.

makavele:


Well said !!!

I use mine with a 2kw hotplate and 2kw electric kettle simultaneously every morning 5 days a week for almost a year now.
This is with other loads of fridge, booster pump and other base loads.

I use a 10kva Gennex Inverter (Axpert clone).

Choi!!!!

That is some serious loading - 4kw of heating plus say 1kw of other loads? Perhaps we can try adding on 2units of 1kw water heaters to get us to the 7kw mark and then see how it goes.

But more seriously I am impressed with those numbers - I wouldn't put more than 3-4kw of heating on my current 6kw MustPower - pretty sure it would handle it but I don't wanna brick the machine just yet.

It is either the quality and ruggedness of the Axpert types have been dialed up since my own 2015 purchase or I got a lemon. Everyone who I ever recommended it to, I advised not to use resistive loads on it and all are doing good so far - in light of these latest reviews I might need to revise my position.

Nice one Oga Barezzi.

Barezzi:
I use mine with a 2kw hotplate and 2kw electric kettle simultaneously every morning 5 days a week for almost a year now.
This is with other loads of fridge, booster pump and other base loads.

I use a 10kva Gennex Inverter (Axpert clone).

Can a 1440w, 2.4kva mercury inverter or any other brand of same rating power 0.75hp 550w borehole pump machine .

Barezzi:
I use mine with a 2kw hotplate and 2kw electric kettle simultaneously every morning 5 days a week for almost a year now.
This is with other loads of fridge, booster pump and other base loads.

I use a 10kva Gennex Inverter (Axpert clone).

This must be a very good ketekete(horse)
Gennex Inverter (Axpert clone) bookmarked.