rvp2018:
Magufuli is obviously what the doctor ordered for the fools. Just like Babu of Nigeria.

Kazikazi:
if u trust those ranking why is kenya this way?

obaaderemi:
Of course I maintain my stand because it is correct and not because this is a faceless forum. That's still better than you who lied shamelessly and got exposed. For all intents and purposes Hong Kong is independent. That's not the same thing as saying Hong Kong is independent indeed and entirely. I guess you don't know the two terms are different due to the presence of the word " all". Well,it's clear you no longer hold on to your spurious claim that those two countries,Hong Kong and Taiwan never wanted to have anything to do with China. That's one of the two points of this back and forth. I wonder why you are saying Taiwan is independent? You want to start another thing you will not be able to finish,abi. When did Taiwan declare its independence? Does the United Nation recognize Taiwan as an independent country? What privileges does Taiwan enjoy that hong Kong does not? Taiwan competes at the Olympics as Chinese Taipei while Hong Kong competes as Hong Kong, China. Both do not sit at the UN. The only difference is that while Hong Kong doesn't care so much to be seen as a region of China but with its own jurisdictional powers,Taiwan on the other hand continues to fume and burn trying to curry the favour of the international community to no avail to recognize Taiwan as an independent country since they have given up hope of regaining control of China proper.

And yes,the comparison with India is moot. Nigeria didn't exist before the British came and the main parts that make up Nigeria had little or nothing to do with one another.They were all just slapped together disregarding their backgrounds. Meanwhile India had been prominent under different ancient dynasties before the British got there and was already trading seriously with the outside world. They had manufacturing companies long before there was anything like Nigeria or Gold coast. It's a matter of history, my boy ,that separates us and not a matter of the African being inferior to the Indiat. So in an African setting, population counts a lot. That is why ,even comparing Nigeria to small Kenya, Kenya is still faring badly. My argument with you was about something entirely different from the direction you've taken it, in your desperation and goalpost shifting ,by bringing the Kenyans in thinking you could get succour from them.But I will still oblige you.And my question remains, in how many African countries have you experienced life for you to come to the realization that no other country can be more corrupt than Nigeria? That's the second crux of this argument. The first is the Hong Kong issue.

Obi1kenobi:


1) So autonomy and independence are no more the same thing - as you claimed before and spent several comments since then on tangential ramblings trying to defend. Is that why Taiwan being independent is suddenly wrong to you? I thought independence and autonomy were the same thing? If Taiwan were autonomous, isn't it independent? I also thought according to you, they envied and wanted to be like China. Why then have they fought so hard to be independent from China, regardless of how successful they've been in gaining recognition? Or is that another of your revisions?
2) Keep pretending you don't know what "sovereignty" means. Taiwan is a sovereign nation with complete control of all its affairs. When you were hilariously trying to tell me what "for all intents and purposes" means, I've said Taiwan is the nation the term applies to. Because despite only being recognized by 20-something nations, it functions "for all intents and purposes" as a sovereign, independent state. Taiwan maintains its own military for starters. Hong Kong does not. Taiwan maintains diplomatic posts all over the world. Hong Kong doesn't. Taiwan is not subject to the same influence that China's National People's Congress has on Hong Kong's domestic politics. Nor is its media suppressed by China's government. Your Olympics point is irrelevant (as always). Scotland whose autonomy you derided present a team in pretty much every international sport: football, rugby, cricket etc. I guess it's "independent" too, eh? You are so all over the place with disjointed logic, it's genuinely exhausting arguing with you.

All this tangents about Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc arose because you couldn't accept that plenty of nations are not driven by vain, nationalistic egos to attach themselves to something bigger. It's impossible for nationalistic Nigerians like you to comprehend that merely being a "big" country arouses no "envy" from anyone. It's a pointless vanity trip to brag about your size, when you can't brag about the welfare of your citizens. The size only came about because the British, for easier adminstration lumped a bunch of people together in a large, dysfunctional union. And then you beat your chests about it like it's an achievement. If I came from a country like Gabon or Botswana, why the fucck would I "envy" Nigeria, which would just look to me like a good-for-nothing "giant"?



Irrelevant rationalizations there. No period in the history of human civilization has experienced anything like the economic boom of the 20th century. Plenty of 1st world world advanced nations today built their wealth in the 20th century. If Nigeria kept pace with its rapid development heading into the Civil War, it would be an advanced nation today. India in 1960 was a shiithole no better off than Nigeria was at the time. Nigeria slipping behind those countries has nothing to do with its precolonial ancient history, but with its profound post-colonial failures. If you don't like India, you can use Indonesia. I compare Nigeria to these countries because of their populations and how they've managed to drag hundreds of millions of their citizens out of poverty while Nigeria's continues to rise.

And no, Kenya is not faring badly. If you know how to read data, you'd understand Kenya are well poised to reap massive boons from changes in demography (they are living 10 years longer than Nigerians, and have a lower fertility rate than Nigerians who breed like rats - resulting in a more productive working population), ambitious infrastructural investment (with a budget almost equal to Nigeria's despite a quarter of the population) and policies targeted at the low-income working class (urban housing schemes, heath insurance) which would continue to improve the lives of poorer citizens. They have already reaped these boons (with a 10% slash in poverty rate over the last decade according to World Bank, while Nigeria's poverty rate has grown) and are poised to keep reaping it. They are poised to be competing with the likes of Botswana in the near future. Nigeria isn't. Them's the facts "my boy". Deal with it.

obaaderemi:
So you now agree Taiwan and Hong Kong really want to associate with China? unlike your initial position that neither of them wanted anything to do with China. That was the argument if you have forgotten. A claim you later denied, lying blatantly in the process.Didn't you? You are the one caught in a lie not me. And again, why hasn't Taiwan declared independence and why was it thrown out of United Nations? Which countries recognize Taiwan as an independent country? Vanuatu, Swaziland, etc. It is autonomous and to a large extent enjoys a lot of independence. In that case its autonomy is akin to independence. And that's why I used the term for all intents and purposes.The same Taiwan that continues to relate in international circles as Chinese Taipei? Hong Kong is largely independent of China as it has its own jurisdictional constitution and has a treaty which prevents China from touching its economic and social system for 50years at least after the exit of the British. So both countries are independent and at the same time not independent. And why would Taiwan not envy and fear China when the Republic of China once ruled China but was thrown out by chairman Mao? Until recently Republic of China saw itself as the legitimate government of Mainland China and many Taiwanese saw themselves as Chinese. But the Republic of China is far bigger and more powerful and kicked Taiwan's arsee left and right.Let Taiwan declare independence and we'll rejoice with it.
And in Africa with the way countries were formed and handled by the Europeans, large countries would more likely than not have problems because of their politics and low level manufacturing. Look at Ghana and Kenya for instance. They are small and should be compared to countries like Argentina and Vietnam. So,mister ,explain why they are not like those countries if their policies are really working. Or are the former backward because they are black countries ?FYI,those two African countries even depend on donors more than bigger African countries despite their small populations. Nigeria should be doing better, nobody is disputing that but the underlying factors would have sunk any other sub Saharan Africa country since. Take it or leave it.

obaaderemi:
Illiterate pig. Neither Hong Kong nor Taiwan is independent. Neither has declared nor dare declare independence from China. You've just embarrassed yourself like the Nigerian guy who has been trying to lie his way out. However, what does a pig like you know about foreign affairs?

obaaderemi:
So you now agree Taiwan and Hong Kong really want to associate with China? unlike your initial position that neither of them wanted anything to do with China.

That was the argument if you have forgotten. A claim you later denied, lying blatantly in the process.Didn't you? You are the one caught in a lie not me. And again, why hasn't Taiwan declared independence and why was it thrown out of United Nations? Which countries recognize Taiwan as an independent country? Vanuatu, Swaziland, etc. It is autonomous and to a large extent enjoys a lot of independence. In that case its autonomy is akin to independence. And that's why I used the term for all intents and purposes.The same Taiwan that continues to relate in international circles as Chinese Taipei? Hong Kong is largely independent of China as it has its own jurisdictional constitution and has a treaty which prevents China from touching its economic and social system for 50years at least after the exit of the British. So both countries are independent and at the same time not independent. And why would Taiwan not envy and fear China when the Republic of China once ruled China but was thrown out by chairman Mao? Until recently Republic of China saw itself as the legitimate government of Mainland China and many Taiwanese saw themselves as Chinese. But the Republic of China is far bigger and more powerful and kicked Taiwan's arsee left and right.Let Taiwan declare independence and we'll rejoice with it.

And in Africa with the way countries were formed and handled by the Europeans, large countries would more likely than not have problems because of their politics and low level manufacturing. Look at Ghana and Kenya for instance. They are small and should be compared to countries like Argentina and Vietnam. So,mister ,explain why they are not like those countries if their policies are really working. Or are the former backward because they are black countries ?FYI,those two African countries even depend on donors more than bigger African countries despite their small populations. Nigeria should be doing better, nobody is disputing that but the underlying factors would have sunk any other sub Saharan Africa country since. Take it or leave it.

nemesis8u:


Speak for urself

Calling other countries shiithole

which country do u belong to ?

India in 1950 , was offered a seat at the UN permanent security council by US. And in 1955 by the Soviets.
It did not happen becz of a delusional fuccker named Nehru who was the PM of india and who refused it.

India in 1960 was the 5th country in the world with the capability to design and carry out nuclear tests ( much before China ) and USA actually was asking India to do the same before China which the moroon Nehru again refused.

India had established its own nuclear reactor facilities in 1950s

India developed its first fighter bomber aircraft in 1961.

Indian space research organisation started work in 1960s

India is one of the 2 oldest continuous civilizational country in the world in existence today and there is nothing shiithole about this. It is something to be proud of inspite of the faults which creeped in over the years.

If it were not for the ancient Indians and their contribution to mathematics and science we would still be eating lice off our heads.

So get ur facts straight before making ignoromous statements and calling other countries shiithole.

obaaderemi:
So you now agree Taiwan and Hong Kong really want to associate with China? unlike your initial position that neither of them wanted anything to do with China. That was the argument if you have forgotten. A claim you later denied, lying blatantly in the process.Didn't you? You are the one caught in a lie not me. And again, why hasn't Taiwan declared independence and why was it thrown out of United Nations? Which countries recognize Taiwan as an independent country? Vanuatu, Swaziland, etc. It is autonomous and to a large extent enjoys a lot of independence. In that case its autonomy is akin to independence. And that's why I used the term for all intents and purposes.The same Taiwan that continues to relate in international circles as Chinese Taipei? Hong Kong is largely independent of China as it has its own jurisdictional constitution and has a treaty which prevents China from touching its economic and social system for 50years at least after the exit of the British. So both countries are independent and at the same time not independent. And why would Taiwan not envy and fear China when the Republic of China once ruled China but was thrown out by chairman Mao? Until recently Republic of China saw itself as the legitimate government of Mainland China and many Taiwanese saw themselves as Chinese. But the Republic of China is far bigger and more powerful and kicked Taiwan's arsee left and right.Let Taiwan declare independence and we'll rejoice with it.
And in Africa with the way countries were formed and handled by the Europeans, large countries would more likely than not have problems because of their politics and low level manufacturing. Look at Ghana and Kenya for instance. They are small and should be compared to countries like Argentina and Vietnam. So,mister ,explain why they are not like those countries if their policies are really working. Or are the former backward because they are black countries ?FYI,those two African countries even depend on donors more than bigger African countries despite their small populations. Nigeria should be doing better, nobody is disputing that but the underlying factors would have sunk any other sub Saharan Africa country since. Take it or leave it.

Just30:
Nigeria is the largest receiver of foreign aid in West Africa
When foreign aid is withdrawn from Nigeria, just like it has been withdrawn from Ghana
the entire health and education sector in Nigeria will collapse

the aid is the only thing keep health care and education afloat in Nigeria
they are pretty much in a bad state

Daejoyoung:

Can you provide proof of this?

Daejoyoung:
Can you provide proof of this?

Daejoyoung:

Can you provide proof of this?

Obi1kenobi:


I'm Nigerian. And Nigeria is a shiithole. Are you offended at my choice of language or are you offended because you believe I'm factually inaccurate? The advancement of India and Pakistan's nuclear programs have no relevance to the welfare of its citizens. I have praised India's rapid poverty alleviation through the 90's to today. Before that, India was a shiithole for hundreds of millions of people who don't get to enjoy the perks of working in nuclear labs. I wouldn't refer to India today as a shiithole, seeing its progressive strides. I would decades ago though.

NairobiWalker:

This is a well known fact.

nemesis8u:


A last point before I leave the thread

U talked about governance

So isn't governance a reflection of the citizens of a country ?

Good citizens -> good governance
Bad citizens -> bad governance

Any citizen of any country inevitably thinks that the blame for all wrongs lies on others be the ones in power or anywhere inbetween in his or her country.

It takes a lot of mental fortitude and character to do soul searching at individual level by every citizen of a country to find where the problem lies. ie if the faults lies at the individual level of all citizens and the faults r simply cummulatively manifesting at the national level.

In real life one lie leads to another lie
Similarly one excuse leads to another excuse. It is a never ending trap.

It is a personal opinion and not any country specific , it is applicable to all countries and their citizens.

Daejoyoung:

Can you provide proof of this?

Just30:
Nigeria is the largest receiver of foreign aid in West Africa
When foreign aid is withdrawn from Nigeria, just like it has been withdrawn from Ghana
the entire health and education sector in Nigeria will collapse

the aid is the only thing keep health care and education afloat in Nigeria
they are pretty much in a bad state

gallivant:


For "all intents and purposes" I am an idiot.

obaaderemi:
No,Kofi. Your brother wizimike already proved Ghana is by far the largest receiver of aid in west Africa per capita. No one comes close. Ghana has no budget without foreign donors.

obaaderemi:
No,Kofi. Your brother wizimike already proved Ghana is by far the largest receiver of aid in west Africa per capita. No one comes close. Ghana has no budget without foreign donors.

wizzzmike:




oh true we receive more because we use them wisely. we've use them to eliminate polio, Ghana is polio free country and other 5 diseases. declared by WHO while big economy Nigeria struggling with common polio. Our politicians are not corrupt like ur politicians who steal billions to hide them on foreign countries.

Obi1kenobi:


1) So autonomy and independence are no more the same thing - as you claimed before and spent several comments since then on tangential ramblings trying to defend. Is that why Taiwan being independent is suddenly wrong to you? I thought independence and autonomy were the same thing? If Taiwan were autonomous, isn't it independent? I also thought according to you, they envied and wanted to be like China. Why then have they fought so hard to be independent from China, regardless of how successful they've been in gaining recognition? Or is that another of your revisions?
2) Keep pretending you don't know what "sovereignty" means. Taiwan is a sovereign nation with complete control of all its affairs. When you were hilariously trying to tell me what "for all intents and purposes" means, I've said Taiwan is the nation the term applies to. Because despite only being recognized by 20-something nations, it functions "for all intents and purposes" as a sovereign, independent state. Taiwan maintains its own military for starters. Hong Kong does not. Taiwan maintains diplomatic posts all over the world. Hong Kong doesn't. Taiwan is not subject to the same influence that China's National People's Congress has on Hong Kong's domestic politics. Nor is its media suppressed by China's government. Your Olympics point is irrelevant (as always). Scotland whose autonomy you derided present a team in pretty much every international sport: football, rugby, cricket etc. I guess it's "independent" too, eh? You are so all over the place with disjointed logic, it's genuinely exhausting arguing with you.

All this tangents about Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc arose because you couldn't accept that plenty of nations are not driven by vain, nationalistic egos to attach themselves to something bigger. It's impossible for nationalistic Nigerians like you to comprehend that merely being a "big" country arouses no "envy" from anyone. It's a pointless vanity trip to brag about your size, when you can't brag about the welfare of your citizens. The size only came about because the British, for easier adminstration lumped a bunch of people together in a large, dysfunctional union. And then you beat your chests about it like it's an achievement. If I came from a country like Gabon or Botswana, why the fucck would I "envy" Nigeria, which would just look to me like a good-for-nothing "giant"?



Irrelevant rationalizations there. No period in the history of human civilization has experienced anything like the economic boom of the 20th century. Plenty of 1st world world advanced nations today built their wealth in the 20th century. If Nigeria kept pace with its rapid development heading into the Civil War, it would be an advanced nation today. India in 1960 was a shiithole no better off than Nigeria was at the time. Nigeria slipping behind those countries has nothing to do with its precolonial ancient history, but with its profound post-colonial failures. If you don't like India, you can use Indonesia. I compare Nigeria to these countries because of their populations and how they've managed to drag hundreds of millions of their citizens out of poverty while Nigeria's continues to rise.

And no, Kenya is not faring badly. If you know how to read data, you'd understand Kenya are well poised to reap massive boons from changes in demography (they are living 10 years longer than Nigerians, and have a lower fertility rate than Nigerians who breed like rats - resulting in a more productive working population), ambitious infrastructural investment (with a budget almost equal to Nigeria's despite a quarter of the population) and policies targeted at the low-income working class (urban housing schemes, heath insurance) which would continue to improve the lives of poorer citizens. They have already reaped these boons (with a 10% slash in poverty rate over the last decade according to World Bank, while Nigeria's poverty rate has grown) and are poised to keep reaping it. They are poised to be competing with the likes of Botswana in the near future. Nigeria isn't. Them's the facts "my boy". Deal with it.

jaycent:
Is that your excuse?

wizzzmike:




oh true we receive more because we use them wisely. we've use them to eliminate polio, Ghana is polio free country and other 5 diseases. declared by WHO while big economy Nigeria struggling with common polio. Our politicians are not corrupt like ur politicians who steal billions to hide them on foreign countries.

jaycent:
Case close?

obaaderemi:
Case was closed from the beginning. He just keeps dancing around and bringing in other irrelevances to save face.