macof:


There is only one question i have for you for now; If Yoruba are descendants of Hebrews why did we need christianity to expose us to Hebrews? Certain families should have traditions of Hebrews and spread the knowledge of their existence

I mean even Islam came years before christianity yet Yoruba seemed oblivious to the existence of the Hebrew or Jewish people

Yes Islam came before christianity but Orun is not in ancient Arabic as it is seen in Hebrew ‘or',which is fire-light . Even, Yoruba oral account even recorded in IFA corpus did mentioned Orunmila coming from Orun, which showed semblance with Ur -Or in Middle East.True or false is left for anyone to agree to it. Yoruba of ancient acknowledged migration from their oral acount which people like you and others have disagreed upon but some informatiion in this 21st cant be wrong when many of these wesstern researcher are interpreting ancient Pictographs, Hieroglyphs,cuniform,meanwhile we are reffering only to Oral account.

Furthermore one of the major reason for the christians to find yoruba history fascinating was the manner at which who is who is known in their historical account. From the kings to the commoners in the acient time. And before now ,there was an account that the whereabout of the Hebrews of ten tribes was unknown when they disappeared in Egypt between the Hykos invasion and when the Hykos were chased out of Egypt,with a population of over 200,000,according to other account ,it is higher so they( researchers) were looking for the ten lost tribe of ancient Hebrew which was documented in Papyrus of Babylonian, Greek Roman, Egyptian and Persian Cuneiform etc.,Do you know how many times Roman Empire and some other European theologists have doctored the Bible to fit in to their skin complexion? Look up King James version for reading sake even if you arent Christian oriented but view the complexion of Hebrews. Do you know geneaology really begun around 15th century in Europe ? This is somethings that has been eternal with Yoruba Race . Unfortunately part of Yoruba history is lost which must be reconstructed. If you doubt, why is Yoruba history centered around Odua the King and Obatala? Meanwhile both men died . What about Orunmila, was he a human being or not ? Who was his father if he was a human being? Did any part of Ifa corpus acknowledged that Orunmila married? As a scholar, if you are among the gods, you will know that this journey has nothing to do with distortion of a well cherished nation like Yorubas but to be place her in a more respected role she need to play in the commodity of nation as the chosen of God whom he , God spoke with their ancestors.

RedboneSmith:
"During the later stages of the Late Stone Age, as farming turned wandering folks into settlers (from about 4000 BC), the scattered spread of farming people living in the West African region slowly began to get differentiated into related clusters and groups speaking proto-languages consisting of dialects that were related to one another.

Available linguistic evidence indicates that many such groups and clusters slowly formed on the banks of the Middle Niger, mostly in the area of the Niger—Benue confluence and above it. This linguistic evidence suggests that the Yoruba, Igala, Edo, Idoma, Ebira, Nupe, Kakanda, Gbagyi and Igbo belonged to a cluster of languages, now called Kwa sub-group of languages by modern scholars, belonging to a larger family of languages now called the Niger-Congo (or Nigritic) family of languages.

The small cluster was concentrated roughly around the Niger—Benue confluence. Over thousands of years, the groups in this cluster slowly separated as they developed distinctive characteristics, probably the last language groups to separate being the Igala and Yoruba. One study suggests that the proto-Yoruba and proto-Nupe language sub-families seem to have migrated from a little further up the Niger, slowly expanding towards the confluence, and that during that process each finally became differentiated from a mother language group.6

The clear implication of all this is that the origin of the Yoruba people as a linguistic and ethnic group belongs in the process of slow differentiation of proto-groups which occurred in the Middle Niger and around the Niger—Benue confluence, beginning about 4000 BC and continuing for thousands of years. It is, therefore, in this area that we must find the first home of the Yoruba as one people — the area close to the Niger—Benue confluence and further up the Niger, where the southern Nupe and the far northeastern Yoruba groups — the Yagba, Jumu, Ikiri, Oworo, Owe, and Bunu (now collectively called the Okun Yoruba by some scholars) — and the northernmost Igbomina, live today."

~ From "A History of the Yoruba People" by Professor Stephen Adebanji Akintoye.

Professor Akintoye is a professional historian. Not an amateur dabbling into something he is ill-equipped to grasp properly. He has been doing serious history for sixty years.

Yes sir , a renowned professor of History but did Radio Carbon test agree to this 4000 BCE oooo? Where did Igbomina and Okun as a whole existed around 4000BCE in Middle Niger? Do you know Igbomina kingdom's King list is not up to 100?

x

x

0balufonlll:


Stop claiming Ife or acting like you know anything about it, I will keep being a problem to your posts if you keep at it. Oh, other people’s works who spent decades at it are flawed but your own work is the baba abi?

There are just too much you do not know but you want to continue to seek unnecessary relevance. I would have shared the link to this page with some of the folks here to see your posts and call you out as well but it will make no sense to have folks loitering this place.

My own is just to add to claims of Ife history in your post that may be wrong, o tan.

Ekaaro, ojumo ire o.

P.S: end up like others that deleted their monickers? Is that you trying to gas yourself up, bro? I had all of those handles & deleted them. I delete my handles when they get to a certain number of posts. Now, do not think deleting them had anything to do with you. You are one funny brother.

Ojumo ire . Kaaro. I insist share it if you are sure of what you posted. I want you to be honourable on it if I claimed Geesi. Funny enough, Geesi still fall with in my family lineage but I did not claim Geesi . There are some things that you skipped although not important but be honest and truthful.

Well, the last part of your post is likened to a young man filled with vigour as you claimed IFE too from Obalufon's lineage tried to downplay my assertion on my lineage until I didnt see him anymore because I was waiting for him to bring evidence againy my ancestor. Infact he had sworn to rubbished me the same as you see yourself when you disrespectfully said, ‘ I will circulate your ancestor'. So kindly do the needful by posting it. I dare you.I dare you. I dare you.

Well, I am like the moon among all that desired to be recognised. When they all consulted IFA for recognition .Well, IFA gave him and others advise to do some sacrifices and, he, Osupà did the sacrifice bestowed upon him so that he will be recognised and he became recognised and glanced at as King Amororo but no one can look up at the sun(oorún) without shedding tears.
Plainly, there were sacrifices that had been done for and by I Olu as being glanced at and recognised by all whoever I had met in person or not even those I will meet in the future. Funny enough,I wasnt looking for such on a faceless platform which is just for knowledge sharing even if people acknowledged my posts. Trust me I see it as no big deal as I am not different from others who are among the believer of this revelation. I doff my hat to'em all.

So if indeed you know, you will thread with caution and understand because it is beyond you and I. Jokingly you may think it is not possible but kindly keep record of things on this forum as you are a scholar because ,I will continue with my work until you see it on some people's shelf.

I will be honest with you, sè pélé pélé nítorí ójó olà . Hmmmm, iwà ní óbà àawùrè. I have advised you....


Blessed day to you.

x

Olu317:
Yes sir , a renowned professor of History. But did Radio Carbon test agree to this 4000 BCE oooo? Where did Igbomina and Okun as a whole existed around 4000BCE in Middle Nigeria? Do you know Igbomina kingdom's King list is not up to 100?

"... where the southern nupe...Ìgbómìnà live today "
That is what was written there.

Radio - carbon dating of languages? Lmao. Another funny one from our nairaland clown

0balufonlll:


I am kuku calm, brother mi.

I do not have any problems with Mr. Olu & his pursuits of Hebrew theory, really. Like I stated before, thr Hebrew thing is not my interest & since I am ignorant in the technicalities of language & such, it is only right I keep quiet.

The part that just draws me in is the distortion of Ife history to suit his angle. Yet, when you point the error out to him he suddenly seems upset and tries to twist & turn things. Is he saying he knows better than the agbaagba in Ife & how Ife is structured to continue to reflect our history daily & sometimes, periodically.

Overall, it is fun reading his attempts at bending Ife history. I crack up & in fact it gives me something to start conversations & amuse older folks here with.

Ekaaro, ihan alaale ‘fe a gbewa.

I don't know how they expect to be distorting someone's history and the person should keep calm like it's nothing

Olu317:
Yes sir , a renowned professor of History. But did Radio Carbon test agree to this 4000 BCE oooo? Where did Igbomina and Okun as a whole existed around 4000BCE in Middle Nigeria? Do you know Igbomina kingdom's King list is not up to 100?

Radiocarbon dating? We are talking languages here, sir; not excavated artifacts.

Have you heard of glottochronology?

Are you at all familiar with historical linguistics?

RedboneSmith:


Radiocarbon dating? We are talking languages here, sir; not excavated artifacts.

Have you heard of glottochronology?

Are you at all familiar with historical linguistics?

Yes sir , I am familiar . But are you also familiar that language and gene don't always match? My brother , you didn't inform me of where the professor got his citation or self. The professor assertion of 4000 BCE has no backing of this date. This has been argued against even by Akinjogbin. In fact, there is no way the linguistic connection can be without traces of it. Kindly read about ecology of language by Einar Haugen

Olu317:
Yes sir , I am familiar . But are you also familiar that language and gene don't always match? My brother , you didn't inform me of where the professor got his citation or self. The professor assertion of 4000 BCE has no backing of this date. This has been argued against even by Akinjogbin. In fact, there is no way the linguistic connection can be without traces of it. Kindly read about ecology of language by Einar Haugen

Where did Professor Akinjogbin argue against the dating for the divergence of the branches of the Kwa language family?

The dating that Akintoye gave in his book is not his own conjecture, as you are trying to insinuate. It was first postulated in the 60s that the languages in the Kwa group began to split up between 8,000 and 6,000 years ago (i.e., roughly between 6,000 BC and 4,000 BC). No linguist (including eminent Yoruba linguists like Akintugbe and Eluyemi) has challenged the dating.

To understand how linguists arrived at this dates, you have to understand how glottochronology works. It is not a system of assigning random dates. All things being equal, languages change at a rate. Using this rate as a constant, it is possible to arrive at a rough estimate of when varying related languages were one proto-language.

Also, what do you mean by "there's no way this linguistic connection can be without any traces of it"? Are you saying there are no traces of linguistic connection between Yoruba and her sister-languages: Edo, Idoma, Igbo? Because there are.

What do you want me to note in Einar's work? Mention it.

RedboneSmith:
"During the later stages of the Late Stone Age, as farming turned wandering folks into settlers (from about 4000 BC), the scattered spread of farming people living in the West African region slowly began to get differentiated into related clusters and groups speaking proto-languages consisting of dialects that were related to one another.

Available linguistic evidence indicates that many such groups and clusters slowly formed on the banks of the Middle Niger, mostly in the area of the Niger—Benue confluence and above it. This linguistic evidence suggests that the Yoruba, Igala, Edo, Idoma, Ebira, Nupe, Kakanda, Gbagyi and Igbo belonged to a cluster of languages, now called Kwa sub-group of languages by modern scholars, belonging to a larger family of languages now called the Niger-Congo (or Nigritic) family of languages.

The small cluster was concentrated roughly around the Niger—Benue confluence. Over thousands of years, the groups in this cluster slowly separated as they developed distinctive characteristics, probably the last language groups to separate being the Igala and Yoruba. One study suggests that the proto-Yoruba and proto-Nupe language sub-families seem to have migrated from a little further up the Niger, slowly expanding towards the confluence, and that during that process each finally became differentiated from a mother language group.6

The clear implication of all this is that the origin of the Yoruba people as a linguistic and ethnic group belongs in the process of slow differentiation of proto-groups which occurred in the Middle Niger and around the Niger—Benue confluence, beginning about 4000 BC and continuing for thousands of years. It is, therefore, in this area that we must find the first home of the Yoruba as one people — the area close to the Niger—Benue confluence and further up the Niger, where the southern Nupe and the far northeastern Yoruba groups — the Yagba, Jumu, Ikiri, Oworo, Owe, and Bunu (now collectively called the Okun Yoruba by some scholars) — and the northernmost Igbomina, live today."

~ From "A History of the Yoruba People" by Professor Stephen Adebanji Akintoye.

Professor Akintoye is a professional historian. Not an amateur dabbling into something he is ill-equipped to grasp properly. He has been doing serious history for sixty years.

Sir, what do we call this submission by the erudite professor of history, is this a

a. historical rediscovery?

b. historical claim?

c. historical finding?

d. historical proof?

Has the prof finally unravel the origin of the Yoruba race (that is, the crux of this thread) in this spectacular points? Do we need to feature cultural angle of the subjects in this phylum or obliterate their faint recollection of history as 'non-existent' in order to advance European model of history in the name of profession?

Who is being served in this ‘elitist’ educational system eventually? I like to coin a term, “histofusion” to establish the point I'm making.

Histofusion is the systematic retelling of a lump of history with all the elements of modern historical method in place, using paleontological model and radiocarbon appeal to time, on an established linguistic classification of a particular linguistic group, without any element of cultural appeal to or from the people whose history is just being told, other than a roll call on their ethnic names.

With the above definition, someone is shy to tell us that we all descended from Nok Civilization. Does anyone need as long as 60 years of practice to come to that conclusion bro?

Even the amateur me in my 20s still quoted Dr. E.A Afigbo in my work “Yorubas Glorious Secrets” saying the same thing without this fanfare, in his contribution to the book “Igbo language and Culture”.

What could have been deemed spectacular is the ingenuity of the scholar of such magnitude is to trace what European linguists termed as Kwa languages to its common origin and finding the very proto-Yoruba language lost to time and where it is now been spoken by few on the bring of extinction. But we don’t do that in this clime, we are still where European linguists left us.

Exercise

Proof your point with tangible facts you portend to establish, not the arguments in the sidelines.

Do we have the proto-Yoruba?

If yes, then it is the proof of connection between Yoruba and her neighbours, from which the kwa language emanated. Then if you can't entertain Yoruba tradition of origin based on your level of study, kindly do the following:

a. Produce the Proto-Yoruba cognates

b. Name the spring of this linguistic phylum

c. Harmonize it with the cultural beliefs of the aforelisted places on their common origin (at least, to make your findings their history and not your 'history') for them. That to me is what the prof failed to do.

With this, you prove yourself a worthy scholar indeed and history is made.

Good morning bro.

RedboneSmith:


Where did Professor Akinjogbin argue against the dating for the divergence of the branches of the Kwa language family?

The dating that Akintoye gave in his book is not his own conjecture, as you are trying to insinuate. It was first postulated in the 60s that the languages in the Kwa group began to split up between 8,000 and 6,000 years ago (i.e., roughly between 6,000 BC and 4,000 BC). No linguist (including eminent Yoruba linguists like Akintugbe and Eluyemi) has challenged the dating.

To understand how linguists arrived at this dates, you have to understand how glottochronology works. It is not a system of assigning random dates. All things being equal, languages change at a rate. Using this rate as a constant, it is possible to arrive at a rough estimate of when varying related languages were one proto-language.

Also, what do you mean by "there's no way this linguistic connection can be without any traces of it"? Are you saying there are no traces of linguistic connection between Yoruba and her sister-languages: Edo, Idoma, Igbo? Because there are.

What do you want me to note in Einar's work? Mention it.

Since the information you gave is based on Akintoye also reference someone else's opinion which is not well confirmed , only showed such information is prone to criticism because Yoruba didnt occupy Nigeria 6000 years.

Secondly, the people who classified kwa group or language did so on assumption because most of them aren't linguists. Infact Greenberg criticised the lumping up of languages in Africa,hurriedly. I had information on this on, ‘Arab origin of Yoruba'. ‘Kwa' as a word has no meaning in Yoruba land. A people with the largest population in West Africa.

Thirdly, on the divergence of the language that you so believed clearly has a flaw because, there are no way an affiliated languages or with cognates wont have slight semblance even if the word is stretched out the original pronunciation. Einar Haugen made this assertion in the book ; Ecology of Language. For example, the English language developed from a peculiar group from ancient Germanic stock and the bitter truth is that this language still exist and being spoken. How could yoruba language be so divergent that there re no connection appart from war captives or intermarriages Infact, the Edo, Igbo ,Idoma aren't intelligible to yoruba language which is makes your perspective not acceptable . Do you doubt? Check Philandé Leo on his contribution on the words shared between Modern Yoruba and Ancient Kemet(Egypt) .How could people among the Kwa group,who are closely related to Gbe people thaa referred to father as Fari, a name asssociated with Pharaoh-Faroe not known among Yoruba's? . The Borgu in ther ancient times called Faroe as Barkhu which name similar to the way the coptic in Egypt called Pharaoh. Yet, the Borgu language isnt intellligible to yoruba.You can verify Borgu's language through Ehtnologue of Bénin language.

Fourthly, On Proffessor Akinjogbin account on the two dynasty that existed in IleIfe can be found in his book and Suzzane Blier's book, Art in Ileife, Birth Place of Yoruba. Professor Akinjogbin exerted that 44 king list existed in ancient Ileife and that Obalufon II era was when the there two kings which made it 46 king list.A period civil war broke out in ancient Ileife. Funny enough tests carried out on the artifacts found in Ile ife was produced around 11th-12th century. From that period to 2018 is not up to 2000 years. And the Ileife reigning king is the 51st one on the tbrone. Can only 44 kings ruled for 5600 or 2600 years from your calculation? A people that was seen to very organised ,with a government system that was patterned after monarchial system with no absolute control on all. Please note that Professor Ogundiran confirmed the date of the artifacts; royal mask and others. The point here is that no known kings among the 44 were remembered nor any neighbouring groups had knowledge of such kings. Is it possible for such to be if Yoruba as a people had lived amongst these people before language divergence?

On a last note, the 60s is different from 21st century, where information is easily accessible. Reality on the current finding is what I need to know and not issues based on sentiment. There are two or three letters word I posted on , ‘Arab origin of Yoruba' which were some of the ancient words used by Yoruba, that I will want you to kindly interpret them in your language if you are Ibo or Idoma etc. So as to oof the connection with these words I posted, sir.


Cheers

Olu317:
Cool at the information you gave as the date Akintoye gave in his conjecture isn't his research,which make such as a not perfect information which are exposed to criticism.

Secondly, the people who classified kwa group or language did so on assumption because most of them aren't linguists. Infact Greenberg criticised the lumping up of languages in Africa,hurriedly. I had information on this on, ‘Arab origin of Yoruba'. ‘Kwa' as a word has no meaning in Yoruba land. A people with the largest population in West Africa.

[Thirdly, on the divergence of the language that you so believed clearly has a flaw because, there are no way an affiliated languages or with cognates wont have slight semblance even if the word is stretched out the original pronunciation. Einar Haugen made this assertion in the book ; Ecology of Language. For example, the English language developed from a peculiar group from ancient Germanic stock and the bitter truth is that this language still exist and being spoken. How could yoruba language be so divergent that there re no connection appart from war captives or intermarriages Infact, the Edo, Igbo ,Idoma aren't intelligible to yoruba language which is makes your perspective not acceptable . Do you doubt? Check Philandé Leo on his contribution on the words shared between Modern Yoruba and Ancient Kemet(Egypt) .How could people among the Kwa group referred to father as Fari, a name asssociated with Pharaoh-Faroe not known among Yoruba's? . The Borgu in ther ancient times called Faroe as Barkhu which name similar to the way the coptic in Egypt called Pharaoh. Yet, the Borgu language isnt intellligible to yoruba.You can verify Borgu's language through Ehtnologue of Bénin language.

Fourthly, On Proffessor Akinjogbin account on the two dynasty that existed in IleIfe can be found in his book and Suzzane Blier's book Ancient Ileife, Birth Place of Yoruba. Professor Akinjogbin exerted that there were 44 king list existed and that Obalufon II era was when the there two kings which made it 46 king list.A period civil war broke out in ancient Ileife. Funny enough enough tests carried out on the artifacts found in Ile ife was produced around 11th-12th century. From that period to 2018 is not up to 2000 years. And the Ileife reigning king is the 51st one on the tbrone. Can only 44 kings ruled for 5600 or 2600 years from your calculation? A people that was seen to very organised ,which was patterned after monarchial sytem with no absolute control on all. Please note that Professor Ogundiran confirmed the date of the artifacts; royal mask and others. The point here is that no known kings among the 44 were remembered nor any neighbouring groups had knowledge of such kings. Is it possible for such to be if Yoruba as a people had lived amongst these people before language divergence?

On a last note, the 60s is different from 21st century, where information is easily accessible. Reality on the current finding is what I need to know and not issues based on sentiment. There are two or three letters word I posted on , ‘Arab origin of Yoruba' which were some of the ancient words used by Yoruba, kindly interpret them in your language if you are Ibo or Idoma. Proof the connection with these words I posted, sir.


Cheers

Money

kwa in Egun

Owo in Yoruba

Ego in Igbo

These folks intend to write off the traditional history because they cannot grasp it, or have anything like it themselves, replacing it with scientific fantasies that have no connection to the information in the history that has been coming down from thousands of lineages. You can't appreciate what you don't have.

Yoruba tradition is a valid knowledge of its own kind, with equal value of intelligence worth of empirical study. We are not stones without intellectual contributions to our history, it is slaves that are in need of professors to find their places and origin in history. But sons look to the intellectual culture of their fathers.

Thanks for this, @the bolded, I was thinking that some scholars from Europe came to tell us more about our languages as they used to do for their servants, helping them to better knowledge of their history in English, hence the name kwa linguistic group.

absoluteSuccess:


Money

kwa in Egun

Owo in Yoruba

Ego in Igbo

These folks intend to write off the traditional history because they cannot grasp it, or have anything like it themselves, replacing it with scientific fantasies that have no connection to the information in the history that has been coming down from thousands of lineages. You can't appreciate what you don't have.

Yoruba tradition is a valid knowledge of its own kind, with equal value of intelligence worth of empirical study. We are not stones without intellectual contributions to our history, it is slaves that are in need of professors to find their places and origin in history. But sons look to the intellectual culture of their fathers.

Thanks for this, @the bolded, I was thinking that some scholars from Europe came to tell us more about our languages as they used to do for their servants, helping them to better knowledge of their history in English, hence the name kwa linguistic group.

Well, thank you too Sir. It is disheartening that the researchers being quoted by some of our brothers dont always have accurate information as regard who they referenced but based on asuumptions. Mo gbé'dí .Just imaging some people claiming Yoruba habited Nigeria more than 6000 years ago , yet the Iwo Eleru fossil( Human skull) found is almost 13000+ with no link to Yoruba ancestors nor any artifact to support 6000 years of a people with population as Yorubas' in Nigeria. Despite the fact that Ileife was even said to have had traces of animal husbandary around 305 BCE yet no human fossil to match 6000 years. And all the strength in artifacts is less than 2000 years old. In fact, Igbo ukwu's artifact is older than Yoruba's so also Nok . Were the Yoruba so unseen that they were spirits? I only hope this people will wake up from fantasies.

Wollof calls,‘ king' : Fari – Faroe– Egyptian king
Setwana, a group associated with Gbe- Ewe calls ,‘ Father' as Ra– A name associated with an Egyptian pharaoh who was turned to deity as sungod. The word 'Kwa' was introduced by Gottlob Krause in 1885 for the Akan (or perhaps Tano ), Gã, and Gbe languages, which have kwa or kua as their word for 'human being'. Just imaging the meaning?

Gbe- Ga language : Kwa
Meaning: Human being
Yoruba – Ori
Meaning: head

Infact, the concept of Ori in Yoruba tradition has no equal base with any group or affinity even with Igala in west Africa's culture. Infact the Nok culture, Ibo culture ,edo culture Borgu, Idoma , Jukun etc don't understand the concept of Ori bíbó in Yoruba land,which is enshrined in IFA concept. How can these people not know that IFA is the record keeper of Yoruba language with no link to non Yoruba's? Gradually, I hope these people will realise that the language divergence was not as a result of independent group development with all other groups in Niger Congo basin or west Africa but as result of cultural and language differences.

Hebrew: bo/bw
Meaning : return,come back

Yoruba( ancient): bo,bo'a ,bo wa
Meaning: to come,return

Hebrew: Sh
Meaning: to do,work

Yoruba: Shè/ sè
Meaning: to do,work


These don't exist in West Africa...Except in Yoruba language

Ah, it's no use. Have a nice day, all.

RedboneSmith:
Ah, it's no use. Have a nice day, all.

Have a good working time out there.

Olu317:
Well, thank you too Sir. It is disheartening that the researchers being quoted by some of our brothers dont always have accurate information as regard who they referenced but based on asuumptions. Mo gbé'dí .Just imaging some people claiming Yoruba habited Nigeria more than 6000 years ago , yet the Iwo Eleru fossil( Human skull) found is almost 13000+ with no link to Yoruba ancestors nor any artifact to support 6000 years of a people with population as Yorubas' in Nigeria. Despite the fact that Ileife was even said to have had traces of animal husbandary around 305 BCE yet no human fossil to match 6000 years. And all the strength in artifacts is less than 2000 years old. In fact, Igbo ukwu's artifact is older than Yoruba's so also Nok . Were the Yoruba so unseen that they were spirits? I only hope this people will wake up from fantasies.

Wollof calls,‘ king' : Fari – Faroe– Egyptian king
Setwana, a group associated with Gbe- Ewe calls ,‘ Father' as Ra– A name associated with an Egyptian pharaoh who was turned to deity as sungod. The word 'Kwa' was introduced by Gottlob Krause in 1885 for the Akan (or perhaps Tano ), Gã, and Gbe languages, which have kwa or kua as their word for 'human being'. Just imaging the meaning?

Gbe- Ga language : Kwa
Meaning: Human being
Yoruba – Ori
Meaning: head

Infact, the concept of Ori in Yoruba tradition has no equal base with any group or affinity even with Igala in west Africa's culture. Infact the Nok culture, Ibo culture ,edo culture Borgu, Idoma , Jukun etc don't understand the concept of Ori bíbó in Yoruba land,which is enshrined in IFA concept. How can these people not know that IFA is the record keeper of Yoruba language with no link to non Yoruba's? Gradually, I hope these people will realise that the language divergence was not as a result of independent group development with all other groups in Niger Congo basin or west Africa but as result of cultural and language differences.

Hebrew: bo/bw
Meaning : return,come back

Yoruba( ancient): bo,bo'a ,bo wa
Meaning: to come,return
people's people's people's
Hebrew: Sh
Meaning: to do,work

Yoruba: Shè/ sè
Meaning: to do,work


These don't exist in West Africa...Except in Yoruba language

The proto-words you have on that appendix table incredibly agrees with old Yoruba words:

mr: mr, miri in Yoruba is to shake head, ri on its own is to see something, and we says mor[eemo], which combines m, (e-mi, this me) with 'ri', see. Mo ri emo, 'I saw marvel'.

Bo'a or bo is what Yoruba says when someone is coming, [mo n bo, I'm coming]. A proverb utilizing bo'a is in old Yoruba, 'eran nlenii bowa o y'ode'. It means 'I'm being pursued by an animal bespeak the hunter'.

Sy: Seyi is to do a particular thing, as in this proverb 'seyi too se oremi ojo nlo' do what you have to do, my friend, time is going.

RedboneSmith:
Ah, it's no use. Have a nice day, all.

No sir, its of great use to me: I see the point being made as a clever attempt at a historical hoax.

Available linguistic evidence indicates that many such groups and clusters slowly formed on the banks of the Middle Niger, mostly in the area of the Niger—Benue confluence and above it.

My bros, that very phrase is 'the almighty deception' and the backbone of the submission of the source you quoted. How did we come by this 'available linguistic evidence' and what in the world is the author referring to? We know what it is when 'the holy grail' was announced moments later.

This linguistic evidence suggests

Now the author is about to turn this holy grail to something spectacular

that the Yoruba, Igala, Edo, Idoma, Ebira, Nupe, Kakanda, Gbagyi and Igbo belonged to a cluster of languages, now called Kwa sub-group of languages by modern scholars, belonging to a larger family of languages now called the Niger-Congo (or Nigritic) family of languages.

Does this evidence of linguistic relativity alone equally suggests common origin in the same sentence? That's 'transformation of evidence' or employing an omnipotent-evidence to do all things a much deeper and time-consuming further research can do, so that we can reach a conclusion on common origin in time?

The clear implication of all this is that the origin of the Yoruba people as a linguistic and ethnic group belongs in the process of slow differentiation of proto-groups which occurred in the Middle Niger and around the Niger—Benue confluence, beginning about 4000 BC and continuing for thousands of years.

The bolded is the very moment the holy grail became the holy grail, not for just linguistic relativity, but something earth shattering: common historical origin for all. It is a breathtaking moment.

It is, therefore, in this area that we must find the first home of the Yoruba as one people — the area close to the Niger—Benue confluence and further up the Niger, where the southern Nupe and the far northeastern Yoruba groups — the Yagba, Jumu, Ikiri, Oworo, Owe, and Bunu (now collectively called the Okun Yoruba by some scholars) — and the northernmost Igbomina, live today."

Whose commission is the bolded? I've done my own part, Yoruba came from Nok civilization.

Our Prof has done his bit at canonizing Kwa language as holy grail. It is left to Professor Olu to tell us how our history is canonized by the people called modern scholars (european linguists of 1845) whose 'matching of words with common meaning among native Africans in the west coast' suddenly became the holy grail from where our history spring from.

Prof. Olu, please find the text of the works that became Kwa languages, maybe its linguistic or historical, lets know.

absoluteSuccess:


The proto-words you have on that appendix table incredibly agrees with old Yoruba words:

mr: mr, miri in Yoruba is to shake head, ri on its own is to see something, and we says mor[eemo], which combines m, (e-mi, this me) with 'ri', see. Mo ri emo, 'I saw marvel'.

Bo'a or bo is what Yoruba says when someone is coming, [mo n bo, I'm coming]. A proverb utilizing bo'a is in old Yoruba, 'eran nlenii bowa o y'ode'. It means 'I'm being pursued by an animal bespeak the hunter'.

Sy: Seyi is to do a particular thing, as in this proverb 'seyi too se oremi ojo nlo' do what you have to do, my friend, time is going.

Bro,this is just a tip of the iceberg. The exact word for the word ,‘see' is the same as with Ancient Hebrew. In fact Ancient Arabic is slightly different but closely related.

For those that thought I am forcefully conjuring Ancient Hebrew words that has same cognate with Yoruba should explain the factor that makes the following Yoruba words to have same cognate with Ancient Hebrew

Hebrew: ry
Meaning: see

Yoruba:ri
Meaning: see





Cheers

@absoluteSuccess,I don't see the research work as being late nor will it be late Sir, because it involves a lot of work to achieve this task. Therefore a more advanced knowledge on Pictorgaph, Hieroglyphs by Yorubas as needed manpower is also need be put into consideration because it is not about one man's glory' but achieving the result through collective effort Èlèdáà through whom he has chosen among men.

absoluteSuccess:


No sir, its of great use to me: I see the point being made as a clever attempt at a historical hoax.



My bros, that very phrase is 'the almighty deception' and the backbone of the submission of the source you quoted. How did we come by this 'available linguistic evidence' and what in the world is the author referring to? We know what it is when 'the holy grail' was announced moments later.



Now the author is about to turn this holy grail to something spectacular



Does this evidence of linguistic relativity alone equally suggests common origin in the same sentence? That's 'transformation of evidence' or employing an omnipotent-evidence to do all things a much deeper and time-consuming further research can do, so that we can reach a conclusion on common origin in time?



The bolded is the very moment the holy grail became the holy grail, not for just linguistic relativity, but something earth shattering: common historical origin for all. It is a breathtaking moment.




Whose commission is the bolded? I've done my own part, Yoruba came from Nok civilization.

Our Prof has done his bit at canonizing Kwa language as holy grail. It is left to Professor Olu to tell us how our history is canonized by the people called modern scholars (european linguists of 1845) whose 'matching of words with common meaning among native Africans in the west coast' suddenly became the holy grail from where our history spring from.

Prof. Olu, please find the text of the works that became Kwa languages, maybe its linguistic or historical, lets know.

You have dissected the submission of our great professors who submissively agreed that they are uncertain and so therefore look forward in unraveling the Yoruba Race's historical foundation beyond ILEIFE,the Nigeria's birth place of Yorubas, who were called a,‘Bantu' related group. Fortunately Philadé Leo has understudy the relationship between Yoruba and ancient Egypt. Although Yoruba residents is West Africa today which made some western researchers classified Yoruba as a Niger-Congo people.

Kwa was introduced by Gottlob Krause in 1885 for the AKAN( or TANO), GÃ and GBE Languages, which have ‘Kwa' or ‘Kua' word in their names and also meaning, ‘Human being'. Yoruboid as a language was a stand alone because the methods used by these classifier were not the best for it. The Niger-Congo Language family represents one of the largest groups of languages in the world. It consists of 1,436 languages and dialects spread over a relatively small geographic area (Grimes 64).

Classification of African Languages(brief)

One of the earliest known classifications of the African languages was presented in Adelung and Vater’s Mithridates (1812) and it divides all of the African languages into four groups: the Berber languages in the north, the Bushman and Hottentot languages in the south, and all of the remaining languages were grouped under the title "Central Africa" (Bendor-Samuel 3). Adelung continued to break down these groupings and was able to put together some related languages: a Mandingo group, an Amina (Akan) group, and a Congo group which, however, does not relate to other Bantu languages (Bendor-Samuel 3).


One of the most famous classifications is that of Greenberg. He used Westermann’s studies as a type of springboard to his own conclusions. Greenberg, however, made several divergences from previous studies in stating his own conclusion. Among these divergences are:

1) Westermann’s "West Sudanic" and Bantu formed a single genetic family which he named Niger-Congo,

2) Niger-Congo consisted of the following subfamilies recognized by Westermann: West Atlantic, Mande (Mandingo), Gur or Voltaic, Kwa (which included Togo Remnant) and Benue-Congo (Benue-Cross),

3) Bantu constituted a subgroup of of Benue-Congo rather than being a subfamily like the others, and

4) Kordofanian, which he had treated as a separate family previously, was coordinate with Niger-Congo as a whole thus causing him to name the larger family Niger-Kordofanian (Bendor-Samuel 7-. Greenberg’s groupings (1963) are shown below: Greenberg arrived at these groupings using the following method: 1) he compared word lists of basic vocabularies from large numbers of languages and established cognates in some if not all of the languages of a particular grouping.

Greenberg called this mass comparison . 2) he compared particular grammatical morphemes with similar forms and functions from one language to another and established relationships between them. Greenberg felt that is was a mistake to compare general features of languages "...without making a detailed comparison of the actual morphemes by which these systems were realized" (Bendor-Samuel .
There have been questions by many scholars concerning the validity of Greenberg’s groupings.

So, it is refer to as the Kwa languages today are essentially the languages of Greenberg’s Western Kwa subgroup which he characterized as "relatively close-knit." Imagine this statement?

'Greenberg himself recognized, it is now generally agreed that his Kwa is not valid as a genetic unit'. Kwa has never been a precise concept (Bendor-Samuel 217-218). Today Yoruba is classified as Kwa but doesn't have shared word with 70% with the remaining 1435 out of the 1436 languages and dialects except Yoruba people with yoruba dialects that's grouped to be :

1) North-West Yoruba (NWY)
Egba, Ibadan , Egbado/Yewa , Ọyọ,
Western Ogun , Lagos/Eko .

2)North-East Yoruba (NEY)
Yagba, Owe , Ijumu , Oworo, Gbede,
Abunu.

3)Central Yoruba (CY)
Igbomina , Ijesha, Ifẹ , Ekiti, Akurẹ , Ẹfọn .
South-East Yoruba

4) (SEY)south East Yoruba
Ikale , Ilaje, Ondo City , Ọwọ , Idanre,
Akoko, Remo, Ijẹbu.

5) South-West Yoruba (SWY)
Ketu , Awori, Sakété , Ifè (Togo) , Idasha ,
Ipokia/Anago .

Even the neighbouring Igala isn't a Yoruba group despite the 63%-64% percentage of her language's closeness to Yorubas.The tradition and culture are different. Yoruba are the People known with Èlèdáà (one's creator) concept.

Despite, Professor Biobaku who categorically claimed authority on Yoruba history, don't understand his own ethnic history in full fledge because he can't condemned the research carried out by Philadé Leo who used linguistic connection to analyse the relationship between Yoruba and ancient Egypt, that Olumide Lucas saw through the egyptologists. Unfortunately the condemnation by Professor Biobaku on Olumide Lucas' work was borne out of the fact because he, Olumide wasnt a linguist but a theologian . The same way Bolaiji Idown was condemned by few scholars who thought Idowu was too enotionally attached to christianity in comparing its biblical verses with Yoruba IFA Corpus and tradition. This is much unlike the Western Researchers who don't criticise educational background of any researchers except the Person's work,which has aided their work speedily.

Today, Western Hebrew researchers have begun to interpret Pictographs, hieroglyphs which has cognates with Yoruba's.While many scholars in this field in Yoruba land haven't delve into. Funny part of it,is the same western researchers are their citation /references.



Cheers

macof,being a scholar and a critic, how do you counter the cognate of Yoruba word for ‘mother ' (Ìyè), to have same shared word with ancient Hebrew's lexicon? You being a critic of many people who see these things as Olumide Lucas, Bolaji Idowu but without strong evidence as I have in 21st century.



Yoruba: ìyè
Meaning: mother
Hebrew: eym
Meaning: mother

Yoruba - Kini?

Japanese - Nani?

English - What?


Yoruba are Japanese o
@0balufonlll we need to take back our Asian island


Olu and absolutesuccess I hope you know of this already?

OlaoChi:
Yoruba - Kini?

Japanese - Nani?

English - What?


Yoruba are Japanese o
@0balufonlll we need to take back our Asian island


Olu and absolutesuccess I hope you know of this already?

You are bored and in want of attention.

Are you looking for new posts to twist to still stay relevant after the fall of your god?

I'll give you things to ponder upon this weekend.

absoluteSuccess:


You are bored and in want of attention.

Are you looking for new posts to twist to still stay relevant after the fall of your god?

I'll give you things to ponder upon this weekend.

Actually im showing you how what you are doing is ridiculous. your last post to olu you matching up Hebrew 'mr' with Yoruba 'miri'
I did the exact same thing by matching up Japanese 'nani' with Yoruba 'kini'

If you want more Japanese /Yoruba match up words there are many

You see how me pushing Japanese and Yoruba together is annoying and just plain ridiculous that is exactly how pushing Hebrew and Yoruba is

I'm sure if your religion came from Japan or you were Buddhist you would be claiming Japanese now but because you are christian you want to identify with Hebrews

But you are arguing against fats. It is fact that Yoruba are a native west African people proven by

1.DNA analysis,

2.linguistic classification and

3.multiple cultural aboriginality

1. Did you supply the DNA samples of Yoruba ancestors you recently excavated at the epicenter of ‘the great kwa civilization’ to forensic experts to help you match it with that of the ancestors of the the semitic people to come up with this fixed conclusion?

2. This incontestable linguistic classification is ‘the 8th wonder of the ancient world’. It is of the same archeological value as the egyptian sphinx or the rosetta stone of the black African history, our own epic of gigamesh, the dead sea scroll, the heirogliphs.

3. Multiple cultural aboriginality: Every time you venture out of your common terminologies, you coin phrases that betray your intelligence quotient. Can a people be aborigine in multiple times in their culture? I’m not understanding. Are you this low in intellect that you can’t make phrases that accurately convey your intellectual view? Do you mean "multiple cultural evolution"?

[qoute] I think at this point in anthropology and study of the Yorubas, any Semitic claim of origin is already nullified because no traces of Semitic identity has been proven to exist so far[/quote]

That’s what you think, and what you think is your opinion: anthropology continues, and so is the study of Yoruba, but as for you, history has attain its end, and once we stop learning, we start dying, the people that destroyed what you claim to be fact are here with you, welcome to your end. You are waiting for another circuit of fantasy to turn up somewhere.

I mean how possible is it that Yoruba being a Volta-Niger language under the Niger-Congo group of languages is false but is actually Semitic under the Afro - asiatic group of languages? That is too wide a difference

The possibility is that not any Yoruba trace their genealogy to what you call ‘volter-Niger’ under the ‘Niger-congo’ ancestry but slaves, infiltrators and strangers like you, trained by by colonial masters’ educational system to think of their history in quick phrases and coinages invented by them to teach you (their educated servants) your history in English.

Could the DNA analysis placing Yoruba as a native sub saharan people be wrong? Why has Semitic genes not been found?

Was DNA entries and indexes designed to tell you something beyond its present demographic indices (by which genetic matches are ascertain) for you to match your curiosity about populations beyond this common era, with its remote source?

To be honest you are indirectly calling yourself a fool, and some clever people have confused you, confused you so much that you see facts staring you in the face and prefer to invent your own claims without any evidence... Or do you have evidence? It's a simple question o

You are the fool here my friend, you are the great fool as you can see, some clever people have made ‘kwa’ a dogma to you, a ‘holy grail’ and have canonized it as ‘available linguistic evidence’ which they can’t afford to add to or subtract from. Meaning, you can never think beyond the dictates of your master. You are in a ‘kwafix’.

Claiming that this ‘available linguistic evidence’ is ‘the source of Yoruba people’ is like a detective claiming that ‘a crime scene’ should be convicted as a ‘criminal’. Is that one a detective? Fool, you hastily came to conclusion because you can’t crack your brain any further other than defend your beloved terminologies.

That claim is a hoax, because you are all fixing a date on a language without any composite or contemporary artifacts as the Radio-Carbon date recipient or anything as the marker for chronology of linguistic change, and you are making the ‘available evidence’ the origin in itself when it is an attempt by foreigners at gazetting a 'foreign language' that they couldn’t grasp beyond its face value.

How can experts made claim ab initio without any excavation to guide their timing if only to avoid wild goose speculations? Isn't that worse than your 'amateur historians' claiming Hebrew origin for Yoruba? You are a disciple of folks not guided by any code of ethics binding their profession to their tradition, chasing after shadows at best.

You are being deceived to think that available evidence was a historic event that happened 4000BC when of a truth, it was the attempt at reducing Yoruba language to a family language shared by others in the neighbourhood in the 19th century by Greenberg. I think by now you should be telling us about the great kwa kingdom, you can even fantasies it as the lost Atlantis for sensational effects.

It is this kingdom that spread to become kwa languages. The proto kwa (proto-group) is the language of the 'hunter gatherer' that lived 4000BC. You can sight the site of its ruins and become a celebrated historian, and the erudite scholar would be glad.

That's the facts staring you at face.

OlaoChi:


Actually im showing you how what you are doing is ridiculous. your last post to olu you matching up Hebrew 'mr' with Yoruba 'miri'
I did the exact same thing by matching up Japanese 'nani' with Yoruba 'kini'

If you want more Japanese /Yoruba match up words there are many

You see how me pushing Japanese and Yoruba together is annoying and just plain ridiculous that is exactly how pushing Hebrew and Yoruba is

I'm sure if your religion came from Japan or you were Buddhist you would be claiming Japanese now but because you are christian you want to identify with Hebrews

Have you quickly forgotten about the kwa linguistics and multiple cultural aboriginality?

It is what you see here that you transform to something here, you have nothing upstairs.

Thinking that my way is your way is all that makes you a fool.

x

LMAO blood’s getting hot out here.

absoluteSuccess:


Have you quickly forgotten about the kwa linguistics and multiple cultural aboriginality?

It is what you see here that you transform to something here, you have nothing upstairs.

Thinking that my way is your way is all that makes you a fool.

I'm just having fun here. Sarcasm is fun

If you think I believe Yoruba are Japanese you have a problem. But then for any Hebrew connection you want to bring I have Japanese connection.. Did I not tell you I know how to invent stories too? Since Yoruba origin can now be figured by untrained fellows like you and I by matching up words without recourse for proper linguistic methods

Japanese - kodomo, Ie
Yoruba - omo, Ile
English - child, home


Japan is Yoruba real home