Image123:


Forget your excuses, Jesus Christ said it ought to be done. QED

Have you forgotten same Jesus also said;

44 “See that you don’t tell this to anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them" Mark 1 vs 44

Mr, Do you still practice this too ? Jesus didn't condemn it o , he approve and told them to do it .

He wouldn't be their God if Jesus didn't support His people, He was also under the Mosaic law, but it wasn't His custom to tithe, nor did He teach His disciples to tithe. Everything about Jesus is giving-He gave His life to save ours, He taught His disciples to give freely, they died for Jesus, "And it is our custom to do like wise!

Peacefullove:


The same Jesus ask Lepers to go appear before the priest according to Custom , He support the Jewish religion ?

Is this the only verse that backs up your madness of lies and wonders? Isn't there another verse you can use, that would line up with what you believe is the Word of God..
{Matthew 23:23}
“Woe to you, [self-righteous] scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you give a tenth (tithe) of your mint and dill and cumin [focusing on minor matters], and have neglected the weightier [more important moral and spiritual] provisions of the Law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the [primary] things you ought to have done without neglecting the others.
{Does this mean Jesus is calling tithers hypocrites?}

Image123:


Forget your excuses, Jesus Christ said it ought to be done. QED

Image123:


do you show mercy, faith or judgement? Or they are not for you? You dodged that artfully. Please answer.
Have you seen where they had their bath in the early church? Do you see where they cooked or where they clapped or beat drums? Does it mean these things must not be done or were not done, in case you did not see it recorded? That something is not recorded does not automaticlly mean it did not happen. That is why i ask you continuously to show us if/where it is condemned.
Joh 21:25  And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

The origin of tithing is seen in the practice of great men like Abraham and Jacob. Any other thing after is mere story.

I show mercy, faith and judgement... and that is what is expected of any human being be it Christians, Muslims, Buhddists, Judaists e.t.c.


Now please tell us how all human beings ought to tithe because Jesus said so to the Pharisees who were under the burden of the Mosaic law to tithe...

We are waiting patiently...


I'm also awaiting your research results on the origin of tithing in the church

Peacefullove:


Have you forgotten same Jesus also said;

44 “See that you don’t tell this to anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them" Mark 1 vs 44

Mr, Do you still practice this too ? Jesus didn't condemn it o , he approve and told them to do it .

Beautiful question!


Please also ask image123 if he has sold off all his possessions to follow Jesus...after all, Jesus told a rich young man to do so to follow Him...

After all, the according to image123 the words of Jesus are not tribalistic...

ichuka:

Longtime bro

Yup.

OkaiCorne:


You are contradicting yourself.

Jesus said tithing ought to be done...it was mandatory for those who were under the Mosaic Law to do it! Or are you implying tithing was merely optional for those under the Mosaic Law?

Saying tithing ought to be done and then quoting another verse that borders on freewill giving is contradictory...

Thankfully, everyone on this thread can see that clearly...

By the way... I wonder how the proportion in 1 Cor 16v2 translates to a tenth of one's monthly income... unless you are implying Paul validates tithing... which is another lie you're trying to bring up...

Lemme break it down for you.

(BBE)  A curse is on you, scribes and Pharisees, false ones! for you make men give a tenth of all sorts of sweet-smelling plants, but you give no thought to the more important things of the law, righteousness, and mercy, and faith; but it is right for you to do these, and not to let the others be undone.
(CEV)  You Pharisees and teachers are show-offs, and you're in for trouble! You give God a tenth of the spices from your garden, such as mint, dill, and cumin. Yet you neglect the more important matters of the Law, such as justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the important things you should have done, though you should not have left the others undone either.
(ERV)  "It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You are hypocrites! You give God a tenth of the food you get, even your mint, dill, and cumin. But you don't obey the really important teachings of the law—being fair, showing mercy, and being faithful. These are the things you should do. And you should also continue to do those other things.
(GNB)  "How terrible for you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You give to God one tenth even of the seasoning herbs, such as mint, dill, and cumin, but you neglect to obey the really important teachings of the Law, such as justice and mercy and honesty. These you should practice, without neglecting the others.
(GW)  "How horrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You give God one-tenth of your mint, dill, and cumin. But you have neglected justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the most important things in Moses' Teachings. You should have done these things without neglecting the others.
(ISV)  "How terrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your mint, dill, and cummin, but have neglected the more important matters of the Law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the things you should have practiced, without neglecting the others.

Nothing above implies force/mandatory like you want it to. Dictionary defines OUGHT as ought [awt]
CORE MEANING: a modal verb indicating what somebody should do


We are talking of what Jesus said, not what you think or want Him to say.
Also, tithe is in proportion. Paul asked people to give in proportion. That is as simple as it gets.

Permit me to finish replying you and you should try to lump together your response, else i will of course see some of the replies as already answered and as usual you will accuse me of not replying you or dodging you. This is not a whatsapp chat.

OkaiCorne:


It's disgusting when someone sees a straightforward truth but still wants to twist it.

In Matthew, Mark, Luke and John...had Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law when He spoke of tithing?

After His death and ressurection....move on to the other gospels written from Acts to Revelation...

Show us where tithing was mentioned in any of the letters addressed to the gentile churches!

After doing this... Research on the origin of tithing in the church, and you'll see that it is not an early church doctrine... unlike what we see in the church now.

Very simple question I've asked you... you're yet to address it.

Don't be ridiculous. You are asking me to cut out four books and Hebrews out of the Bible because you do not want to hear the word 'tithe'. i ought to obey God rather than you. i will hold on to the Word of God.
There is no twist in the fact that the scripture passages i quoted show that tithes were done before the law and that they were more than just agro-produce. Also, Jesus said that they ought to be done.He also said that Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Or that is also irrelevant since Jesus has not fulfilled the Mosaic law according to you? i also did not fail to tell you;
"1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.
If i give my 10percent proportion every Sunday, nobody is taking me to hell for it. Let that sink in, sir gentile."

My tithe is in proportion to what i earn, or is 10% not proportion again?

OkaiCorne:


I have mentioned repeatedly on this thread that you should go and research on the origin of tithing in the church!

Do your research and put it here with the source. By now you would have known that tithing is not an early church doctrine...but I guess you'd rather deflect and accuse me of forcing Brocab's research down your throat!

So Abram's tithe is the origin of tithing in the church abi? Smh

i did my research. Guess what? i found out that Abraham gave tithes before the law. He gave a tenth before any early church doctrine. He is referred to by Paul as the father of them that believe. There is no sin in emulating his beautiful example. The faith walk is a personal walk based on God and His Word, and not based on academic research so called.

OkaiCorne:
Isn't it funny how image123 quotes Matthew 23 v 23 that Jesus says tithing ought to be done, but conveniently ignores that tithing Jesus referred to was done in line with the Mosaic Law.

I wonder why image123 does not tithe in line with the requirements of the Mosaic Law if Matthew 23 v 23 is anything to go by...then he remembers he's no longer under the law... But yet still mentions that Jesus said tithing ought to be done still using Matthew 23 v 23 as his basis...


So much for confusion...

Mat 23:23  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Is judgment, mercy and faith in line with the Mosaic law, whatever that means? Why do claim to do mercy and have faith which are greater heavier matters of the law but strain at a gnat? Are you not been hypocritical?

OkaiCorne:


Matthew 23 v 23 validated tithing in line with the Mosaic Law. Do you tithe according to the Mosaic Law?

Did the Mosaic Law apply to the gentiles too?

It doesn't say any such thing, you only assume so. When Hebrews mentioned tithe, it did not classify it as Mosaic law or non-Mosaic law. It is the itks of out time who will not even do the law that made such fancy classifications. Tithe is simply a tenth, 10%. It has nothing to do with Moses. Listen to our brother Paul yet again;
1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.
If i give my 10percent proportion every Sunday, nobody is taking me to hell for it. Let that sink in, sir gentile.

OkaiCorne:


Read your Bible again! The spoils of war was never Abram's property in the first place!

10% was given to Melchizedek and the 90% was returned to the rightful owners. Or did your Bible mention that Abram kept the spoils of war to himself?


Also do your bit by researching on the origin of tithing in the church... and confirm if it was an early church doctrine practiced and preached by the Apostles...OR whether it originated from the Catholic Church...


We are waiting patiently...

Duh, spoils belong to the victor mr researcher. Please do the research.

Gen 14:18  And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. 
Gen 14:19  And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: 
Gen 14:20  And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. 
Gen 14:21  And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself. 
Gen 14:22  And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth, 
Gen 14:23  That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich: 
Gen 14:24  Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion. 

As you can clearly see in verse 24, 90% was not returned. Also, any Bible student will/should know that Abram conquered many kings, not just one so i don't see how you jumped to conclusion that all the spoil belonged to Sodom. Abrm made a personal decision not to take anything from Sodom BTW, so he would not have given tithe of their portion of spoil, just like he didn't take Lot's property/goods to give tithe. Go and figure.

brocab:
Most tithers claim giving means give only a small 10% to God. Giving means everything-Abraham gave everything..
Abraham gave and tithed all-100% is never a tithers dream, a tither tithes only 10%-which doesn't follow the story of Abraham.
Abraham didn't need the worldly kings say they made Abraham rich, "Why because Abraham believed God-God had already made Abraham rich-in blessings through belief-God rewarded Abraham with abundance of land, crops and stocks. God gave Abraham everything, the desires of Abraham's heart was to seek God for wisdom and knowledge, Solomon also seeked God for wisdom and knowledge..
How else did Abraham win the war-Abraham didn't need the spoils of war to make him rich-Abraham didn't need man to say they made him rich-God had already made Abraham rich because the riches that was given to him were from a supernatural being spirituality from above, Abraham would seek after God, it was God's wisdom, that made Abraham blessed 100 fold abundantly.
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” {Galatians 3:10}
"Do yourself a favour, ask the Spirit of the Lord to help you study your bible, Image123 the riches you seek, are not the riches Abraham seek, your riches are carnal, worldly, riches that can only be taught by man, your desires are your Pastor's desires, you want what your Pastor want's.
God sends in men and women of prosperity, preachers that love money more then they love God, God also sends in the army of people who also love money that fills their Churches, Churches full of dead man's bones of health and wreath. "Your desires are with your congregation, which are your Pastors desires, his dreams are your dreams, 10% of $10 every week, from a 1000 people is $10,000.
Abundantly building Mega Churches-fancy homes and wearing costly clothing, driving expensive vehicles, Churches competing against the other-having large amounts of cash sitting in personal bank accounts, it takes the world to recognise it's own kind.
"Seeking after God's riches is completely the opposite, it changes our lives, those who seek after God are blessed abundantly-just like Abraham and Solomon's story both were blessed abundantly, God filled their house with wisdom and knowledge-because both obeyed God.
First seek the kingdom of God and all things shall be added to you.
His riches will overshadow you, your giving will increase, once you decide to give to God-giving everything to God is easy, it sets us free from believing that God needs only your 10% of Mammon every-week.

Oga, get a Bible and stop all these poster color nonsense.
Heb_7:2  To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb_7:4  Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

A tenth is 10%, there is no way you can or should twist it to 100%

JMAN05:


Faith, you will agree, has nothing to do with percentage when giving to God. Right?

The JUST shall live by faith. Giving is part of my life, and whatever i give is by faith. Everything one gives is a percentage of something, isn't it?

petra1:


good question.

Well done mr Petra. It's been a while. How's the ministry and Christ in you sir?

Peacefullove:


The same Jesus ask Lepers to go appear before the priest according to Custom , He support the Jewish religion ?

You are very right.
Mat_8:4  And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.
Mar_1:44  And saith unto him, See thou say nothing to any man: but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing those things which Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.
Luk_5:14  And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

We should also learn to obey the laws of our land as far as they do not contradict the Word of God. It is like giving to the Government what belongs to the Government, very applicable in our day. Doing these do not contradict the will of God but are things God Himself is pleased with.

Peacefullove:


Have you forgotten same Jesus also said;

44 “See that you don’t tell this to anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them" Mark 1 vs 44

Mr, Do you still practice this too ? Jesus didn't condemn it o , he approve and told them to do it .

If i needed to practice it, i would. There is no such requirement or priest in my area for a testimony to them. My justification is by faith and i know that very well. Paul also went to the temple for cleansing, you know?

brocab:
Is this the only verse that backs up your madness of lies and wonders? Isn't there another verse you can use, that would line up with what you believe is the Word of God..
{Matthew 23:23}
“Woe to you, [self-righteous] scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you give a tenth (tithe) of your mint and dill and cumin [focusing on minor matters], and have neglected the weightier [more important moral and spiritual] provisions of the Law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the [primary] things you ought to have done without neglecting the others.
{Does this mean Jesus is calling tithers hypocrites?}

When will you tear the verse from your Bible again?

OkaiCorne:


I show mercy, faith and judgement... and that is what is expected of any human being be it Christians, Muslims, Buhddists, Judaists e.t.c.


Now please tell us how all human beings ought to tithe because Jesus said so to the Pharisees who were under the burden of the Mosaic law to tithe...

We are waiting patiently...


I'm also awaiting your research results on the origin of tithing in the church

At last, glory be to God you answered. What took you so long, research? Why do you obey the weighty matters of the law and like an hypocritical pharisee frown so much on the less weighty parts?

Image123:


If i needed to practice it, i would. There is no such requirement or priest in my area for a testimony to them . My justification is by faith and i know that very well. Paul also went to the temple for cleansing, you know?

Neither is there anymore requirement or Levite priests to collect tithes

OkaiCorne:


Beautiful question!


Please also ask image123 if he has sold off all his possessions to follow Jesus...after all, Jesus told a rich young man to do so to follow Him...

After all, the according to image123 the words of Jesus are not tribalistic...

If Jesus asked me to sell off my possessions, by the grace of God, i would. But He did not tell me to. He said many other things though, and i do them joyfully. Again, Jesus is not tribalistic, don't be.

Errm, nobody said there was, or at least i did not. Focus.

Peacefullove:


Neither is there anymore requirement or Levite priests to collect tithes

Image123:


Duh, spoils belong to the victor mr researcher. Please do the research.

Gen 14:18  And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. 
Gen 14:19  And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: 
Gen 14:20  And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. 
Gen 14:21  And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself. 
Gen 14:22  And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth, 
Gen 14:23  That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich: 
Gen 14:24  Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion. 

As you can clearly see in verse 24, 90% was not returned. Also, any Bible student will/should know that Abram conquered many kings, not just one so i don't see how you jumped to conclusion that all the spoil belonged to Sodom. Abrm made a personal decision not to take anything from Sodom BTW, so he would not have given tithe of their portion of spoil, just like he didn't take Lot's property/goods to give tithe. Go and figure.

From all you've written here, it clearly shows that Abram never kept any of the spoils of war for HIMSELF!

Didn't you read what he said in Genesis 14 v 23?

If he never kept anything for himself...then how does tithing from the spoils of war translate into giving a "tithe of all"?

You are trying to pass of the spoils of war as Abram's property when the scriptures clearly stated that he never retained any portion of it for himself!

Bottom line... Abram tithed from the spoils of war, and not from his income or assets.

This is just too straightforward and clear to twist around...

Image123:


At last, glory be to God you answered. What took you so long, research? Why do you obey the weighty matters of the law and like an hypocritical pharisee frown so much on the less weighty parts?

Ogbeni... I thought you mentioned you are no longer under the Law (Mosaic Law)...

If you are talking about weightier or lighter parts of the law to obey ... Then you're talking about obeying over 600 laws of Moses here...

I recall asking you earlier on this thread if you;

1) Do not shave as the Mosaic Law demands
2) Do not wear garments with mixed materials as the Mosaic Law demands.
3) Sew tassels at the corner of your clothes as the Mosaic Law demands

You replied you are no longer under the Law...
Now you're calling another person a hypothetical Pharisee for "frowning on the less weighty matters of the Law"... Can you see you're shooting yourself in the foot?

READ MY RESPONSE CAREFULLY AGAIN!

It's expected of any human being to show mercy, faith and Justice...this is matter of humanity. But can you prove to us that tithing is as essential, compulsory and important for every human being as Justice and Mercy?

Then read your Bible again...there were methods and procedures to administer justice and mercy under the Mosaic Law (yes...the weightier matters of the Law)... Are you bound as a follower of Jesus to follow the stringent requirements of the Mosaic Law to administer justice and mercy?

Image123:


It doesn't say any such thing, you only assume so. When Hebrews mentioned tithe, it did not classify it as Mosaic law or non-Mosaic law. It is the itks of out time who will not even do the law that made such fancy classifications. Tithe is simply a tenth, 10%. It has nothing to do with Moses. Listen to our brother Paul yet again;
1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.
If i give my 10percent proportion every Sunday, nobody is taking me to hell for it. Let that sink in, sir gentile.

Thankfully in that same 1 Cor 16:2; Paul never mentioned the proportion must be 10%... So how on Earth does that validate monetary tithing?


And of course, the tithing by Abram was not under the Mosaic Law...it was a one-time transaction from the spoils of war.


It was with the Advent of the Mosaic Law that tithing was done at regular intervals (annually)...

I've seen pro-tithers arguing from your point of view by merging parts of Abram's tithe with the Mosaic law...

You all argue that Abram tithed before the Law...but will want to play down on the part of it being a one-off transaction from war spoils...

Then also uphold the part of tithing regularly as the Mosaic Law demands...but play down on the part that money was never required by the Mosaic Law...

Ignoring portions of the scripture to do what suits you.


The funny thing is that...the Jews whom God made tithing mandatory for under the Mosaic Law DO NOT TITHE right now...so I'm wondering why Christians who were never under the Law are deceived into tithing...

Image123:


It doesn't say any such thing, you only assume so. When Hebrews mentioned tithe, it did not classify it as Mosaic law or non-Mosaic law. It is the itks of out time who will not even do the law that made such fancy classifications. Tithe is simply a tenth, 10%. It has nothing to do with Moses. Listen to our brother Paul yet again;
1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.
If i give my 10percent proportion every Sunday, nobody is taking me to hell for it. Let that sink in, sir gentile.

So did Brother Paul admonish Christians to tithe?

Did he collect tithes on behalf of Jesus from the Jewish and Gentile churches?

I gave you a blank sheet to make some research proving whether tithing was practiced in the early church...or the Catholic Church started it with their various synods

Can I take this as proof that monetary tithing was not an early church doctrine?

That none of the Apostles deceitfully coerced the early Christians into consistently parting with 10% of their monetary income as we see in the church today?

Image123:


If Jesus asked me to sell off my possessions, by the grace of God, i would. But He did not tell me to. He said many other things though, and i do them joyfully. Again, Jesus is not tribalistic, don't be.

BRAVO!

Now if you agree that Jesus was not referring to you in selling off your possession...was Jesus referring to you or was it the Pharisees who were the custodians of the Mosaic Law in Matthew 23 v 23?


Let me ask you these questions...

1) Do you tithe in line with the Mosaic Law? Even dill, mint and cummin?

2) Do you show Mercy and Justice in line with the provisions of the Mosaic Law? (Hint : Jesus mentioned it is a weightier matter of the Law)

Image123:


Don't be ridiculous. You are asking me to cut out four books and Hebrews out of the Bible because you do not want to hear the word 'tithe'. i ought to obey God rather than you. i will hold on to the Word of God.
There is no twist in the fact that the scripture passages i quoted show that tithes were done before the law and that they were more than just agro-produce. Also, Jesus said that they ought to be done.He also said that Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Or that is also irrelevant since Jesus has not fulfilled the Mosaic law according to you? i also did not fail to tell you;
"1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.
If i give my 10percent proportion every Sunday, nobody is taking me to hell for it. Let that sink in, sir gentile."

My tithe is in proportion to what i earn, or is 10% not proportion again?

By now you should have gotten the simple point I'm passing across here...

Tithing was only compulsory for those under the Mosaic Law! The Jews...


Can you give examples of gentiles who God also asked to tithe?

You mentioned Abram and Jacob as gentiles... Did God make it a duty for them to tithe?

Did the likes of Job or Ruth or Naomi tithe?

Did Cyrus tithe?

Did the Greeks, Romans, Persians tithe in either the old or new testament? Did God give them any instructions to tithe?

Should Christians in Nigeria tithe? Does God require this from them too?

Peacefullove:


Neither is there anymore requirement or Levite priests to collect tithes

One million likes for this!

Peacefullove:


Neither is there anymore requirement or Levite priests to collect tithes

One million likes for this!

Image123:


i did my research. Guess what? i found out that Abraham gave tithes before the law. He gave a tenth before any early church doctrine. He is referred to by Paul as the father of them that believe. There is no sin in emulating his beautiful example. The faith walk is a personal walk based on God and His Word, and not based on academic research so called.

Of course.. there's no sin in emulating his example... it's just that one needs to tithe from the spoils of war to follow his example isn't it?

So after your research... you cannot show us any Apostle that preached and collected tithes from the early Christians abi?

Image123:


At last, glory be to God you answered. What took you so long, research? Why do you obey the weighty matters of the law and like an hypocritical pharisee frown so much on the less weighty parts?

great is thy wisdom. ko ni tan mbe.