Some christians don't read their bible, some are not bother about what it says instead they love to pick parts they like and interpret as they like yet both groups would still have the guts to say we atheists were never really christians and we never really understood the bible. Here is my conversation with such unserious and dishonest christian. He is called Paxonel.

First he started off with a thread saying money rituals, voodoo and witchcraft don't exist
https://www.nairaland.com/4918119/lil-kesh-olamide-says-blood
Here is the opening page of the thread

paxonel:
Singer Lil Kesh has reacted after Nigerians accused him and Olamide of promoting “Yahoo yahoo” and “blood money” in their collaborative new song, titled, “Logo benz”.

Lil Kesh has defended his song via a comment on Instagram. Kesh stated that they are not promoting what is not existence. Writing on a page, he wrote;

If money no enter I go do blood money o, talk your own. WE NOR DEY PROMOTE WETIN NOR DEY EXIST na awareness we dey do so spread your pata at owner’s risk because won ka pata o.

This is confirmation that
1.Blood money do not exist
2. Witchcraft do not exist
3. Juju do not exist
4. Die by fire prayer in churches do not exist

Please God and work for your money no mama or witchcraft in your village is blocking your success pastors are deceiving us for so long.

This nigeria we are living in, we caused problems to ourselves by believing in non sense

HopefulLandlord (LandlordHopeful), HardMirror, Hahn, Sharon6 (1Sharon), Tozara, CAPSLOCKED, OtemSapien, proudgorgeousga, Johnydon22

I found it ironic that a christian doesn't believe in the existence of witchcraft and voodoo even though the bible supports the existence of such and since I was free on Saturday with enough time on my hands, I decided to respond and put him in order with this:

Martinez19:
Hypocritical christian who don't read the bible but believe things at their own convenience. Didn't the bible say "suffer not a witch to live"? Didn't the bible support the existence of sorcery by telling how Pharaoh's magicians replicated some of Moses' miracles? How is it then that witchcraft and juju do not exist to you? How?

I am atheist but I get disappointed when you I see christians talking like they don't read their bible or that they are atheist. Funny thing is that you will indoctrinate your children with christianity and hand them the bible to read and if they are honest and not hypocritical like you, they end up believing everything in the bible and becoming dummies. They might even kill themselves using faith healing.

Get serious. It's either you are a christian or not. Go and read your bible.

Thinking that he would see his mistake and correct it so as to be more in tune with the divine scripture or at least logically, from the biblical perspective, debunk my stance with the scriptures (you know, I am willing to take corrections if I am shown to be wrong) buy he responded stupidly with this:

paxonel:
oh! You are an athiest?

Reserve it for christians who reads bible not athiests like you.

And focus on your athiesm for your own good cos it make no sense jumping into holy books like bible you know nothing about ok

and then I responded, initiating a debate that would go on to expose Paxonel for the willfully dishonest and ignorant folk that he is :

Martinez19:
Stfu! I just made valid points and instead of you to admit that you are wrong, you start ranting like a lunatic and you ignored my point being the dishonest fellow that you are.

Given that the bible said "suffer not a WITCH to live" and told the story of Pharaoh's magicians replicating God's miracles, how can you call yourself a christian and not believe in witchcraft and voodoo? I DARE YOU TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION, COME ON!

Go and read your bible and know what it says rather than promoting something(christianity) you know nothing of and leading to the brainwashing of your children and multitude of others. Read your bible very well so you know what it says and even if you still want remain a christian despite reading the bible, at least you won't be hypocritical or ignorant about it.

Oga Paxonel no gree take, he come dey play secretary to the Most High and he dishonestly tried to imply that ANYTHING practiced in primitive time is outdated :

paxonel:
forget it,. your point can never be valid being and athiest who dont agree with bible in the first place.

You forget that pharoah days was still a primitive world, just like we have primitive africa today therefore soccery saw even commercialised.

But did the bible indicated anywhere that soccery were real practices like miracles?
Even if they were real, the primitive practice have died away over time.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God overlooked, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Ofcourse we read how God parted the red sea for the israelites but does that mean it should be a normal practice today that whenever one need to cross a river he calls upon God in a world where beautiful bridges are constructed?

God is not primitive like that.

Here you have it folks, he who knows the mind of God. He completely forgot that Mathematics, farming, Philosophy and Schooling were practiced in ancient times and it does not mean that they are outdated and no longer practised even though they are more refined and extended. Who is he to say say God can't part the red sea anymore? Did god tell him that or is it his opinion?
He also gave an irrelevant verse to support his claim. That verse had nothing to do with the existence or outdated state of witchcraft --- talk about twisting the scriptures to your own taste. Here is my response :

Martinez19:
Lol. The shabbiest explanation to save your face but you failed woefully.

Acts 17:30 has nothing to do with the existence or outdated trend, as you claim, of witchcraft and voodoo. Acts 17:30 was talking about repentance and salvation and how god will no longer overlook those that fail to repent on the day of judgment because god has offered Jesus and people no longer have an excuse hence god's day of overlooking is over. It doesn't say that people have stopped practicing witchcraft or that witchcraft is primitive. Woeful defence on your part. I expected, after I replied you at first, to admit that you were wrong; witchcraft and voodoo indeed exist but people should work hard rather than kill their fellow human beings. You did not, instead because you wanted to defend your convenient position(a dishonest move given that I showed you the truth from the bible) and you want to be right by all means so you cooked up your trashy self defense.

The fact that you couldn't own up to your error but had to spend time to come up with such pathetic biblical defence to your unbiblical claim shows how dishonest and convenience seeking you are. It proves that you, indeed, twist the scriptures by all means to suit your convenient perspective even when it's obvious that it is unbiblical. I am sure you are one of those who bash atheists for not being true christians and not understanding the bible before they deconverted --- how ironic and laughable. You are a confusion maker, you don't even take your beliefs seriously yet you contribute to it's spread and indoctrination of people who would take it seriously.

Where is it written in the bible that witchcraft and voodoo are outdated? On what biblical basis would you say witchcraft and voodoo are outdated? None, except you want to stupidly make up one like your similarly did in your last post. You say witchcraft was practised in primitive times? So was christianity but does that make it outdated? Something being believed and practiced in primitive times does not imply that it would be outdated, such an abysmal logical fail from you and I am not surprised.

@bold
Did you read that from the bible or is that your personal opinion? Since when did christians put their opinions over the bible?

I have more to say but I will stop here. Go read your bible and good day.

I think on this very matter by basing your argument from biblical premise, you made a very valid and strong argument which is almost very unlikely that he can refute directly based on the said premise no matter how much he tried.

My last reply in the previous post gave him another chance to admit his ignorance and error but his dishonest, ego or maybe the feeling of wanting to be right made him persist and came out of with this :

^^^^
He still persisted in insisting, on no biblical grounds, that witchcraft and voodoo don't exist even when he should believe it as a christian since the bible pointed it. What sort of christian is he? What bible does this lad read? He ignored the fact that he made a wrong interpretation and twisted the verse he brought out since it is, as I showed, irrelevant to the discussion. Perhaps he thought I have never read the bible and I could be easily deceived.
He still twisted another scripture (2 Corinthians 5:17) (a scripture that was totally irrelevant but he forced a meaning it like dishonest apologists do) and played the "it was practiced in primitive times" card yet again and ended up declaring that not all parts of the bible is bible (as he puts it), I replied exposing the sort of logically flawed, dishonest and ignorant person and christian that he is:

Juju and witchcraft, as in their practice, does exist, but that's not to say they work, which is another sense in which we say it doesn't exist, and what I think paxonel might have meant.

budaatum:
Juju and witchcraft, as in their practice, does exist, but that's not to say they work, which is another sense in which we say it doesn't exist, and what I think paxonel might have meant.

Lol. Be sure to understand the argument. Regardless of whatever he meant, my argument was that it's irony and improper to say that you are a christian and not believe in the existence and potency(diabolic and spiritual) of voodoo and witchcraft. He said he does not believe they have any potency and they are none existent and I said he should believe in the existence and potency of both as a christian since the bible says that they exist.

In the past few minutes, the other thread by Paxonel just unfolded and further stamps his status as a dishonest christian. I have to go and read. See you in the evening and I will continue this thread.

budaatum:
Juju and witchcraft, as in their practice, does exist, but that's not to say they work, which is another sense in which we say it doesn't exist, and what I think paxonel might have meant.

thank you bro,

Because i was wondering ,of what use saying something like witchcraft, juju existed and it is not working?

Leave that martinez19 ,he lacks thinking capacity

paxonel:
thank you bro,

Because i was wondering ,of what use saying something like witchcraft, juju existed and it is not working?

Leave that martinez 19 ,he lacks thinking capacity

You need to study the word of God more and draw closer to God @ paxonel.

God bless you.

Originakalokalo:


You need to study the word of God more and draw closer to God @ paxonel.

God bless you.

thanks

paxonel:
thanks

You're welcome brother.

Martinez19:
He said he does not believe they have any potency and they are none existent and I said he should believe in the existence and potency of both as a christian since the bible says that they exist.

But isn't that like saying buda, an atheist, should not say Aleluya Jesus Christ Amen?

Muttley tried something similar here. My response was very very restrained by the Holy Spirit, thank God. He even tried to impose buda on my Lord!

I doubt anyone gets to impose beliefs, thoughts, stupidity or anything on anyone else. If I want to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and His Noodly Appendage, and at the same time Jesus is Lord, it is I who will receive a half-ass for half-ass reasoning.

budaatum:

But isn't that like saying buda, an atheist, should not say Aleluya Jesus Christ Amen?

Muttley tried something similar here. My response was very very restrained by the Holy Spirit, thank God. He even tried to impose buda on my Lord!

I doubt anyone gets to impose beliefs, thoughts, stupidity or anything on anyone else. If I want to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and His Noodly Appendage, and at the same time Jesus is Lord, it is I who will receive a half-ass for half-ass reasoning.

No they are not the same. Your bias is blinding you little by little. Atheists are not bound by any creed or holy book that says what they can't do or do, all that is required of them is that they do not believe in the existence of any deity or god(s). So if any atheist shouts "hallelujah Jesus Christ Amen," he still remains an atheist as long as he lacks belief in those things
Its not so with a christian who believes in Jesus sacrifice and is bounded to believe the bible. If the bible says that the moon is made of cheese, a self proclaimed christian should believe that. It's like a Muslim telling me that he doesn't believe Muhammad flew to heaven on a winged horse and yet he is a Muslim.

I will continue this thread tomorrow as more things are unfolding in that thread. Paxonel just said he doesn't believe in the existence of Satan and demons and he calls himself a christian. The same person who probably thinks atheists never really understood the bible and Jesus Christ. How dishonest and confusing can a human being get?

Martinez19:
If the bible says that the moon is made of cheese, a self proclaimed christian should believe that.

No! Time like 10 times! Bloody hell man! If what you say above were true, why would Christians be arguing about their beliefs with one another and why would there be so many Christian sects?

Or have you found that all Christians believe the same things?

budaatum:

No! Time like 10 times! Bloody hell man! If what you say above were true, why would Christians be arguing about their beliefs with one another and why would there be so many Christian sects?

Or have you found that all Christians believe the same things?

Lol. The disagreement within the christian community is due to the inability of christians to pick up their bible and read it thoroughly. Some just pick the denomination they are comfortable with. Why do you think Nairaland atheists who have never met each other all agree similarly on what they think the bible says?

Martinez19:
Lol. The disagreement within the christian community is due to the inability of christians to pick up their bible and read it thoroughly.

So, knowing the above, assuming that is the reason, (for I can't see how that explains the difference between the understanding of two Bishops who do pick up their Bible and read it thoroughly), why can one of them not say they do not believe in juju and witchcraft and devils?

Martinez19:
Why do you think Nairaland atheists who have never met each other all agree similarly on what they think the bible says?

On what the Bible says, perhaps, though I doubt it, and think we atheists are just doing the enemy of my enemy is my friend. For as soon as two atheists step out of the religious section and into the Foreign Politics Section for instance, they pretty soon start calling each other names they reserve for the religious people in the religious section, I found.

Martinez19:
I will continue this thread tomorrow as more things are unfolding in that thread. Paxonel just said he doesn't believe in the existence of Satan and demons and he calls himself a christian. The same person who probably thinks atheists never really understood the bible and Jesus Christ. How dishonest and confusing can a human being get?

Maybe he is a JW.

budaatum:

So, knowing the above, assuming that is the reason, (for I can't see how that explains the difference between the understanding of two Bishops who do pick up their Bible and read it thoroughly), why can one of them not say they do not believe in juju and witchcraft and devil's?

lol. There are many reasons people are in the denomination they are :
1) they were born in that denomination.
2) they never read their bible and a charismatic religious leader , circumstances or friend talked them into it.
3) they picked the one that is convenient for them. Many youths prefer trending and fashionable churches.
For a Bishop, lack of allegiance to his sect may mean excommunication and termination of financial benefits. That's not to say some are not sincerely and willingly rooted in their denomination. If people pick up their bible and study it honestly and thoroughly, they will start being on the same page.

On what the Bible says, perhaps, though I doubt it, and think we atheists are just doing the enemy of my enemy is my friend. For as soon as two atheists step out of the religious section and into the Foreign Politics Section for instance, they pretty soon start calling each other names they reserve for the religious people in the religious section, I found.

Well, we atheists, who have read the bible, agree on what the bible says. Religion is different from politics. The fact that we agree on religion does not mean that we would agree on other aspects. Johnydon22 has argued that morality is subjective while I argued otherwise. We are atheists for a reason and atheism is not expertise in other areas of life.

Martinez19:
If people pick up their bible and study it honestly and thoroughly, they will start being on the same page.

I do not think it is possible for everyone to pick up a book as big and as complicated as the Bible and be on the same page even after studying it "honestly and thoroughly" (why didn't you just say, according to the Holy Spirit, by the way?). It's just too complex a book for the various studiers all from different backgrounds and levels of understanding to get the same understanding of such a huge book. Even the Sanhedrins and Pharisees were not on the same page nor were Paul and James with one by faith and the other pointing to his works. The only way to get people on the same page is to remove their ability to think and reason for themselves and even God couldn't achieve that, as shown by Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

Martinez19:
Well, we atheists, who have read the bible, agree on what the bible says.

No we don't! I am an atheist but I doubt many other atheists share my view of the Good Book!

Martinez19:
Religion is different from politics. The fact that we agree on religion does not mean that we would agree on other aspects. Johnydon22 has argued that morality is subjective while I argued otherwise. We are atheists for a reason and atheism is expertise in other areas of life.

That does not mean we agree on the Bible. In fact, the only one thing we atheists do agree on is that there is no God, period. When we start dissecting the Bible or anything else we will find we disagree wildly and are all over the place.

budaatum:

I do not think it is possible for everyone to pick up a book as big and as complicated as the Bible and be on the same page even after studying it "honestly and thoroughly" (why didn't you just say, according to the Holy Spirit, by the way?). It's just too complex a book for the various studiers all from different backgrounds and levels of understanding to get the same understanding of such a huge book. Even the Sanhedrins and Pharisees were not on the same page nor were Paul and James with one by faith and the other pointing to his works. The only way to get people on the same page is to remove their ability to think and reason for themselves and even God couldn't achieve that, as shown by Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.


No we don't! I am an atheist but I doubt many other atheists share my view of the Good Book!


That does not mean we agree on the Bible. In fact, the only one thing we atheists do agree on is that there is no God, period. When we start dissecting the Bible or anything else we will find we disagree wildly and are all over the place.

The bible is voluminous not complicated. Any disagreement that may result from atheists discussing about the bible would due to the ignorance of scripture not misunderstanding or differing interpretation of the scripture. Don't try to make the bible look like advanced calculus written in greek.

Many christians, especially those that believe in evolution, interpret the story of Adam and Eve as a metaphor and that not because it is their honest stance after reading the bible "thoroughly and honestly" but because it's convenient and makes them feel better. This basis and other faulty basis(ignorant and dishonest) produce many denominations. I am sure that if people read the bible honestly and thoroughly, they would all be on the same page as to what it says.

paxonel:
thank you bro,

Because i was wondering ,of what use saying something like witchcraft, juju existed and it is not working?

Leave that martinez19 ,he lacks thinking capacity

How can u call urself a Christian and say witchcraft don't exist.

The devil has agents operating in different forms. Why do people get possessed by demons? Why do we have pastors who destroy shrines that have been said to hold a community in bondage. Why do family call for prayers where charms are dug out? Why did bishop oyedepo slapped a young girl because he thought he was a witch?

My friend, drop ur bible and join atheism. U are a sheep in wolves clothing.

frank317:


How can u call urself a Christian and say witchcraft don't exist.

dont attribute witchcraft beliefs to christianity its wrong.
Infacts there are athiests who believe in witchcraft too.

The devil has agents operating in different forms.

you may be right saying if someone step on your toes he is used by the devil, but in the real sense that action is done delibrately or mistakenly so dont be childish

Why do people get possessed by demons?

have you ever seen one before?
Be sincere.

Why do we have pastors who destroy shrines that have been said to hold a community in bondage.

oh, thats african home video.
There is nothing like shrine holding any community in boundage, a lot of africans especially in rural communities may choose to retain their traditional african deities, that does not mean they are possess.

Why do family call for prayers where charms are dug out?

this is absolutely ridiculous!
Charm were dugged ignorantly by people who thinks that the said charm is working and you christians who were suppose to have faith and know better now begins to fear the potency of such fake charms and start praying.
You african christians are acting ridiculously.

Go dig charms for any white man house he will just be laughing at your ignorance
Shhe bi na only africa charm dey work?
What the rubbish

Why did bishop oyedepo slapped a young girl because he thought he was a witch?

i commented on this same issue when the thread surfaced on nairaland oyedepo was absolutey wrong.

My friend, drop ur bible and join atheism. U are a sheep in wolves clothing.

oya come force me drop bible now,
Non sense

Martinez19:
lol. There are many reasons people are in the denomination they are :
1) they were born in that denomination.
2) they never read their bible and a charismatic religious leader , circumstances or friend talked them into it.
3) they picked the one that is convenient for them. Many youths prefer trending and fashionable churches.
For a Bishop, lack of allegiance to his sect may mean excommunication and termination of financial benefits. That's not some are not sincerely and willingly rooted in their denomination. If people pick up their bible and study it honestly and thoroughly, they will start being on the same page.



Well, we atheists, who have read the bible, agree on what the bible says. Religion is different from politics. The fact that we agree on religion does not mean that we would agree on other aspects. Johnydon22 has argued that morality is subjective while I argued otherwise. We are atheists for a reason and atheism is expertise in other areas of life.

Correction, my argument is that morality is intersubjective. There is a difference

johnydon22:


Correction, my argument is that morality is intersubjective. There is a difference

True. An error on my part. You argued that morality is intersubjective.

paxonel:
dont attribute witchcraft beliefs to christianity its wrong.
Infacts there are athiests who believe in witchcraft too.
you may be right saying if someone step on your toes he is used by the devil, but in the real sense that action is done delibrately or mistakenly so dont be childish
have you ever seen one before?
Be sincere.
oh, thats african home video.
There is nothing like shrine holding any community in boundage, a lot of africans especially in rural communities may choose to retain their traditional african deities, that does not mean they are possess.
this is absolutely ridiculous!
Charm were dugged ignorantly by people who thinks that the said charm is working and you christians who were suppose to have faith and know better now begins to fear the potency of such fake charms and start praying.
You african christians are acting ridiculously.

Go dig charms for any white man house he will just be laughing at your ignorance
Shhe bi na only africa charm dey work?
What the rubbish
i commented on this same issue when the thread surfaced on nairaland oyedepo was absolutey wrong.
oya come force me drop bible now,
Non sense

I like ur response...makes me wonder why u are still a Christian.
U must be a different Christian. Go through some threads on this forum since last week on this section and u will see how atheists have been battling with Christians day and night telling them these things don't exist.

I am not attributing witchcraft beliefs to Christianity, Christians are

https://www.nairaland.com/4906214/there-no-such-things-witchcraft

The link above is one of many... I think Christians seriously need to bring themselves together instead of making a mockery of their God with this confusion...

frank317:


I like ur response...makes me wonder why u are still a Christian.
U must be a different Christian. Go through some threads on this forum since last week on this section and u will see how atheists have been battling with Christians day and night telling them these things don't exist.

I am not attributing witchcraft beliefs to Christianity, Christians are

https://www.nairaland.com/4906214/there-no-such-things-witchcraft

The link above is one of many... I think Christians seriously need to bring themselves together instead of making a mockery of their God with this confusion...

He is a christianity romancer.

frank317:
I like ur response...makes me wonder why u are still a Christian.
U must be a different Christian. Go through some threads on this forum since last week on this section and u will see how atheists have been battling with Christians day and night telling them these things don't exist.

I am not attributing witchcraft beliefs to Christianity, Christians are

https://www.nairaland.com/4906214/there-no-such-things-witchcraft

The link above is one of many... I think Christians seriously need to bring themselves together instead of making a mockery of their God with this confusion...

People like paxonel are a rare breed.
There are few and far apart to bump into

Martinez19:
He is a christianity romancer.

No he isn't.
If Christians were to properly read the Bible,
there'll be less Christians and less association with organised religion also popularly known as Christianity

frank317:


I like ur response...makes me wonder why u are still a Christian.

christians were suppose to be realistic, i should be the one to wonder whether you are christian or not cos you are not realistic

U must be a different Christian. Go through some threads on this forum since last week on this section and u will see how atheists have been battling with Christians day and night telling them these things don't exist.

athiests were very right saying that but you christians choose to remain dogmatic.

All powers have been given to all christians by resurrection of christ its like they dont know or they are doubting it, therefore they cannot use the power.

All powers have been taken from witches and wizards and satan and demons, they dont have any power anymore therefore they dont exist.

What exist now is science and technology.
You created the science and technology not satan or demons.
You have power to do anything.

If mere athiests could say those things dont exist then christians should understand even more better because you have the truth(bible) in your possession and they dont, but they are telling you the truth from the bible by their natural instinct you christians are not listening.

I am not attributing witchcraft beliefs to Christianity, Christians are

God bless you

https://www.nairaland.com/4906214/there-no-such-things-witchcraft

dont mind them, let them continue to remain in ignorance

The link above is one of many... I think Christians seriously need to bring themselves together instead of making a mockery of their God with this confusion...

they really need someone to teach them because right now, nigerian pastors are not doing a good job

Martinez19:
Don't try to make the bible look like advanced calculus written in greek.

The Bible was written in Greek actually, Greek that is not written anymore for that matter, and translated from languages no one speaks anymore, so it probably is as difficult as calculus considering all the various contradictions therein and the numerous ways in which it can be taken.

Martinez19:
Many christians, especially those that believe in evolution, interpret the story of Adam and Eve as a metaphor and that not because it is their honest stance after reading the bible "thoroughly and honestly" but because it's convenient and makes them feel better. This basis and other faulty basis(ignorant and dishonest) produce many denominations. I am sure that if people read the bible honestly and thoroughly, they would all be on the same page as to what it says.

Are you suggesting that taking parts of the Bible as metaphor is because it is "convenient and makes one feel better" and such a view is "faulty", "ignorant and dishonest"?

Well, I beg to differ, but observe two "atheists who have read the bible", disagreeing on what the bible says, in contradiction to your earlier statement that atheists agree! I wonder if you think I am the "ignorant and dishonest" one here, Martinez19.