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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest (3243 Views)
I Regret Becoming An Athiest / Is Becoming An Athiest The Next??? / Daddy Freeze Would Certainly End An Athiest Or Agnostic. Hardmirror's Opinion (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by Hermes019: 12:22am On Feb 02, 2019 |
shadeyinka:There are some other responses that u gave that digressed from the topic,u know why u don't want to answer the question Going through your entire posts just to find where you addressed something similar to the question I asked when u can simply give me a reply,sorry bro,if u ain't answering it forget it 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 7:00am On Feb 02, 2019 |
Hermes019:I am not being tactful about this and I can speak for the Bible ! The Bible is a Chronicle of Man's experience in relation to God. The scriptures are all given by the inspiration of God which means, that each scripture was directed/inspired by God to be documented! For instance, God says to Moses or David or Paul: " Document your experiences in relation to My dealings with you/your community for the sake of your posterity". The author then writes as he knows, in his own words, using his own style of writing because he had been told to document it by God. It is very simple to understand isn't it! |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 7:17am On Feb 02, 2019 |
Hermes019:Unfortunately, the Pascal's Wager work even if there are many gods: but only ONE, the "Abrahamic God" promise a take it or leave it scenario: with extreme and opposite consequence for obedience or dissobedience. Pascal's Wager is simple mathematics: it takes just one issue at a time (in this case "believe in the existence of God" ![]() Hermes019:Please show me one other religion apart from the "Abrahamic religions" that promise extreme Bliss or Torture for the sake of Man's "denial of His identity"! If you can find one, then I'll rest my case. Can't you see why atheists don't care about other God's with respect to " judgment" apart from the Abrahamic God? |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 7:30am On Feb 02, 2019 |
Hermes019:My personal views will take the argument off tangent to the discussion of the Pascal's Wager. The Pascal's Wager is simple: What happens if you are wrong for denying the existence of the Abrahamic God? The above condition must first be settled before reapplying the Pascal's Wager again to a question like: What happens if you are wrong for your choice of Religion to reach the Abrahamic God? OR What happens if you are wrong for acting contrary to the Will (SIN) of the Abrahamic God? etc For Atheists, the first condition suffices |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by hopefulLandlord: 10:14am On Feb 02, 2019 |
What if I'm wrong? Then, since I refuse to die in battle, I’ll be refused entry into Valhalla. Oh, that’s not what you meant? Well then, I’ll be denied my 72 Muslim virgins. Still not what you were talking about? Zoroaster will throw me into his eternal House of Lies? No? I’ll be denied entrance to Irkalla for not bringing bribes for the seven gatekeepers? There are thousands of purported versions of Hell. You’re only fixated on one of them? What if YOU’RE wrong…? http://www.stupidatheist.com/debating-theists-101/debating-theists-101-2/ 4 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by JujuSugar(f): 10:29am On Feb 02, 2019 |
Pascal's wager is actually safer in reverse http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/godisdangerous.html No one can tell which religion is the true religion. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by princy80(m): 10:59pm On Feb 02, 2019 |
shadeyinka: You didn't answer the question 1 Like |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by hakeem4(m): 6:41am On Feb 03, 2019 |
shadeyinka:. Now, mr Blaise pascal never suggested any god for us to believe. What if there is no god at the end of the day, wouldn’t it mean I’ve lost the little chance for me to think for myself on earth |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 7:07am On Feb 03, 2019 |
hakeem4:Precisely, but Pascal's Wager details that 1. If there was no God eventually, you gain NOTHING because you wouldn't even exist as a concious personality HOWEVER 2. If there was a God, your Loss is INFINITY great (eternity in torment). In other words, Pascal's Wager gives you a mathematical means of rationally making Wise and Informed choice in a game of a coin with only one side. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 7:08am On Feb 03, 2019 |
princy80:I did Sir! |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by Anas09: 7:18am On Feb 03, 2019 |
NPComplete:Pls outline the names of these 500 different gods and post where they promise eternal condemnation in hellfire in the Afterlife when their laws are disobeyed. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by hakeem4(m): 7:18am On Feb 03, 2019 |
shadeyinka:pascal’s argument doesn’t hold any concrete evidence it can convince theist but I definitely think it can’t convince an atheist |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by Anas09: 7:22am On Feb 03, 2019 |
NPComplete:Is this argument about the different Christian sects or about different distinct gods and what they promised in the Afterelife? |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by hakeem4(m): 7:26am On Feb 03, 2019 |
Anas09: GRECO-ROMAN RELIGION The ancient Greeks believed that people died and ended up in Hades, a gray and misty place where the lord of the dead ruled. Others believed in a paradise-like place called Olympic pantheon on Mount Olympus, where gods such as Zeus lived and decided the fate of humanity. The people who lived a good life and were constantly in the minds of the living enjoyed sunny pleasures of the Elysium, those forgotten wandered eternally in the bleakness of Hades, while the wicked fell into dark pits called Tartarus. Although the gods decided the fate of every individual on earth, someone could control his fate through divination and sacrifices to them. EPICUREANISM This religion known as Epicureanism is approximately 300 years older than Christianity and it has an unclear number of believers in Greece and other parts of the world today. Unlike most other religions on the planet, Epicureanism believes in many gods, but none of them takes notice of what human beings are up to. The believers here think that everything including their gods and souls is made up of atoms. Furthermore, according to Epicureanism, there is no afterlife, so nothing like reincarnation, heaven, or hell exists to them. When an individual dies, the believers here believe that the soul also dissolves and that becomes the end of them. BAHAI The Bahai is a religion made up of approximately seven million people. The believers here consider that the soul of a human being is eternal and good, and it is the work of every individual to draw closer to god. Unlike most other religions that have their own specific god, the Bahai believe in one god, who has shown himself through all other religions in the world. According to Bahai followers, heaven and hell do not exist; the two are states of being either close to or far from god. The Bahai believe that most other religious groups are mistaken when they interpret heaven and hell to be physical places as opposed to seeing them as symbolic representations of distance from god. JAINISM The approximately 4 million Jainism followers believe in the existence of many gods and reincarnation until liberation, a liberation that is achieved through avoidance of bad karma and causing no harm. People who do not achieve liberation continue in the cycle of rebirth and some might even have to go through eight hells of suffering before a rebirth. The eight hells get colder at every stage, and a soul passes through a lot of torture before getting another opportunity for rebirth, and another chance to reach liberation. Although it might take a very long time, liberated souls get a place among the gods. SHINTO Something weird about the Shinto is that the believers need not confess that they are Shinto believers in public. According to some old Japanese legends related to the Shinto, the dead enter a gloomy underground place called Yomi, where a river separates the dead and the living. The Yomi is a place much like the Greek Hades, and the people here have a negative view of death and corpses. The followers of this religion believe in ancient gods and spirits called Kami, although they believe that some human beings can become kami after they die. According to the Shinto, people are naturally pure, and they can retain their purity and keep away from evil through some purification rituals. 1 Like 3 Shares |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by Anas09: 7:27am On Feb 03, 2019 |
NPComplete:Except i'm wrong, but, isn't reincarnation meant to be a second chance to make amends for the wrongs done in the previous life? We are told, it's impossible to attend godhood in one life time, so they keep coming to improve on themselves until they reach their godhood. If i'm wrong, pls give me an elaborate explanation about reincarnation. If you can, keep insults out. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by Anas09: 7:30am On Feb 03, 2019 |
Hermes019:No. I'm a Christian and i don't see blasphemy in what he said. But, if you say it is, point it out. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 7:43am On Feb 03, 2019 |
hakeem4:No Sir! The Pascal's Wager/argument is not designed for the theists...infact it is counter Faith! The Pascal's Wager is for the Atheists. Since it doesn't require faith but logics alone. The Pascal's Wager isn't an evidence! It is just a mathematical problem that shows the futility of Betting your life for something of zero reward but infinite loss. Can it convince an atheist? Probably not! Because unconsciously, many Atheists have a problem ONLY with the God of Abraham and it has moved them to a point of rebellious hate. It might however make an Agnostic who truly seeks an answer to count the cost! Many Atheists have made up their mind to bravely face the punishment of hell (if it does really exist): after all, their claim is that they wouldn't be the only ones there. The torment would be bareable if more people are in hell: so they evangelize! |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by Anas09: 7:46am On Feb 03, 2019 |
hakeem4:Thanks for trying, but apart from the Grego-Roman Religion where Hades keeps souls down under his power, none other religion you mentioned believed in a supreme God and eternal Afterlife whether in Paradise or Fire. And, do you also know that according to the Grego-Roman religion, a soul can escape from Hades back to earth? No sir, these will not do. I need 500 religions which preach AfterLife of Paradise or Damnation in the Fire. Specifically in the Fire. The reason am saying this is, anytime you guys come up talking about God/religion, when we begin to present reasons from YHWH, you throw in these 500 religions hoping you are making sense. So, for once let's talk about what these 500 gods say about eternity. And pls, group the Abrahamic religions together for now because they all believe in eternal life in Paradise if you obey and Fire if you don't. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 7:46am On Feb 03, 2019 |
Anas09:My sis! Happy New year! Am I back to NL? No! I just casually walked in...when I have too much time on my hands. Shalom |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by Anas09: 7:50am On Feb 03, 2019 |
shadeyinka:Good morning Saint of God. And Happy New Year and Month. Actually, that is exactly how it is with me, NL is my last resort. If i have nothing in my hands, i just casually walk in here, browse around and leave. This place is dead. All the names with the brains are gone. One of these days, i may just deactivate. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 7:58am On Feb 03, 2019 |
hakeem4:Most other religion that promises a reward in afterlife focus on wickedness of man deserving Karma. But are you also aware that the Pascal's Wager is directed ONLY at the Abrahamic God? Why? He is the only one who promises Eternal Bliss for an EXCLUSIVE Faith in Him AND Eternal Pains for Unbelieve in Him. The Pascal's Wager is just mathematical cause of reasoning to arrive at a purely logical and beneficial conclusion. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 8:04am On Feb 03, 2019 |
Anas09:Happy Sunday and Stay Blessed. SEUN_ and his spiritual accomplices are winning more souls for satan. But I am not surprised!... In the last days, men shall be lovers of self...haters of God. Sometimes, it is good to explain to a mad man why he is abnormal! Perhaps the little sanity that remain in him will receive strength for his cure of Insanity. Shalom |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by NPComplete: 9:06am On Feb 03, 2019 |
Anas09: The different Christian sects are in certain ways different distinct gods because their criteria seem to differ. So my analogy holds. If one person says God hates people wearing earnings and they will go to hell fire and another person says otherwise, since we have no way of knowing which way actually leads to God, we can classify them as 2 unverified gods who have distinct tastes. Analogy holds. However u try to cut it. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by NPComplete: 9:09am On Feb 03, 2019 |
Anas09: Nope not all beliefs. Some believe that should u do evil or fail to live up to expectation, u will be reincarnated as something lesser than human. Like grass or something. There are different incarnation based beliefs. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by NPComplete: 9:23am On Feb 03, 2019 |
Anas09: These people and dishonest arguments. So we should group all Abrahamic religions together now, right? Later it is u that will still belligerently claim u don't serve the same god as Muslims do. So u think your religion is the one with one of the most barbaric punitive measure and for that it deserves a special status in the comity of religions. LMAO. It doesn't. It is a joke to the rest of us the same way other religions are a joke to u. As long as there are opposing views in Christianity, then Pascal's Wager cannot be analogous to one simple pot on the road. That is the whole point of my argument on this thread. Shadeyinka is trying to make it seem like it is just a simple case of believing in a god or not. But we know it is more like believing in one of many gods and then believing in the right version of that one true god and then keeping the commandments of that god to the letter. The probability of that is close to not believing in any god at all. If u were born in Pakistan, u will probably be arguing for Islam and Mohammed with the same vehement close-mindedness u currently exhibit. 1 Like |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by frank317: 10:21am On Feb 03, 2019 |
shadeyinka: Do u mean Allah? 1 Like |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 10:33am On Feb 03, 2019 |
frank317:I have given His identity: The God (singular) of Abraham. For now, it doesn't matter if He is called Chukwu, Eledumare, ... |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by frank317: 11:36am On Feb 03, 2019 |
shadeyinka: Cool, so he can be called Allah? 1 Like |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by frank317: 11:43am On Feb 03, 2019 |
shadeyinka: The Pascal's wager is usually quoted by Christians and sometimes Muslims. The assumption from the quotee is that his belief in God is the right believe and everyone who believes in God believe it the same way he believes. If the Pascal's wager must work, or if it must be reasonable as u say, then the assumption is that ur believe in God is the only and right way. This means that if a Muslim quotes the wager and a Christian quotes the wager, both might end up fighting or arguing. Multi believes is one of the many reason why atheists argue the existence of God. How can u say the wager is reasonable when theists are yet to agree on one worship system of any God? 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 12:29pm On Feb 03, 2019 |
frank317:Depending on who you really mean! If by Allah you mean the God of Abraham, so be it. After all,Allah can either mean "the God" or the God of Abraham! |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 12:42pm On Feb 03, 2019 |
frank317:No theist can believe in God as a "backup". That is why the Pascal's Wager is counter Faith to true believe. The Wager isn't for those who believe. It is for those who do not so that they can logically make up their mind as per risk to reward ratio as it concerns believe in God. With all the differences in religions, the foundermemtal basis is still FIRST a Believe in the Existence of a Creator. Without this, every sect, denomination, religious institutions BREAK DOWN with respect to the God of Abraham This is the issue Blaise Pascal was addressing! |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by frank317: 2:23pm On Feb 03, 2019 |
shadeyinka: By allah, I mean the ones Muslims believe in, the same Muslims u say worship the same God as u. Do u believe u worship the same God with Muslims? 1 Like |
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