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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest (3242 Views)
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Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by frank317: 2:37pm On Feb 03, 2019 |
shadeyinka:Did u say no theist? Did u even read the op, when he said the he opened this thread based on his interaction with a theist? By those who do not believe, so u mean atheists? The last time I checked atheists are the ones arguing against it based on what we think the theist or believers stand should be. Instead here u are saying it is very reasonable (for who, I wonder) U and I know that the theist stand is beyond just the believe in the existence of the creator... The theist stand on God, which is beyond just the believe in the existence of a creator is the reason why the atheist think the Pascal's wager is not reasonable enough. Ya, we know and I wonder why theists always quote it |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by Anas09: 3:44pm On Feb 03, 2019 |
NPComplete:Yes, YHWH is not Allah. I stand by this, but Allah promises the Muslims His paradise if they obey him and YHWH did too. This is why i said group them. But if you feel you can't, then by all means start mentioning these other gods allah included. NPComplete:This is not about the religion with punitive measures, it's about the religions which advocates Paradise and Condemnation in the afterlife. Go ahead and mention the 500 religions you talked abt. NPComplete:See? This is the reason why i don't engage you, you are inconsistent. Is this argument about the Opposing views in Christianity or about you bringing in 500 other gods which had no reason being in this discuss? This is not abt the different Christian sects, it's abt you and these other gods, for this is the only reason i came into this thread. NPComplete:Listen, i for one does not believe in many gods hence, when i talk, i stand by the God i believe in and i see that that is what Shadeyinka did. This thread is about a warning which is left for us to either obey and get a reward or disobey and be reap the consequence of it disobedience. Now, my God, whose name is YHWH/Jesus, teaches that Obedience will lead me to His paradise and disobedience will land me in the Fire of Hell. I expected you to remain in within this premise because hardly does any other of these 500 gods you brought in talks about the AfterLife, rewards and punitive measure there. But, you being the real atheist that you are, tried to rubbish the point by trying to bring in 500 gods and make it seem like we Christians are trying to seem like our God is the Only True God, (which by the way, He is). So, go on and present these your gods and their ideas of the Afterlife. NPComplete:Guy, the only reason i came in here is because you tried to shift the Goal Post. Get back inline. NPComplete:Yes, if i was born in Pakistan i will probably be a muslim. And, i will believe in Allah who promises Paradise or Hell in the Afterelife. But, this is not the argument. The point is your 500 gods. Go ahead pls, i'm waiting. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by Anas09: 3:56pm On Feb 03, 2019 |
NPComplete:Good. So you believe that to those who believe that if one lived below expectation (of who exactly, i mean which God?), in the previous life, they can reincarnate as a lizard or a flower right, now, will that then mean that being reincarnated as something lesser than human is punishment? And, this world which they reincarnated back to, as their AfterLife? To these your devotees, what did they say abt their Paradise? Or is it only being reincarnated to lesser creatures they talk abt? Now, haven pointed this out, have you seen that you shouldn't group YHWH with these your gods? YHWH states clearly what you shd or shd not do. There's reward and Punitive measures IN THE AFTERLIFE. My point is IN THE AFTERELIFE. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by bloodofthelamb(m): 4:54pm On Feb 03, 2019 |
hakeem4: Sorry, I don't live on Pascal wager or whatever you call it. I frown at such thinking anyway. I am experiencing God everyday of my life and his awesome presence is with me always. Because I believe the right thing. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by Anas09: 5:08pm On Feb 03, 2019 |
This is becoming boring. Guy, the last time i checked every Christian sect believed that... 1. Jehovah is the Only One True God. 2. That Jesus is His Only begotten Son. 3. That the Holy Bible is His Word. That Jehovah created the Heavens and Earth and put Adam and Eve in Eden. That, Adam and Eve sinned and brought damnation. That Jesus was born of a Virgin That Jesus died and resurrected after three days. That He ascended to Heaven and He is coming back. So, name a Christian sect which holds an opposing view from this and i will tell you that it's not Christian. NPComplete:Your analogy is like pouring water on the back of a duck. So you believe that the denomination which forbids wearing ears serves a different God from the one which allows it? Have you ever heard of the word 'Doctrine?'. That is what it is, Doctrine. and doctrines do not determine New Birth (Regeneration in the Spirit). See how your analogy sags out? NPComplete:You mean, 'Since YOU have no way of knowing the way to God?', because i do. Here itOne Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John:14:6 Pls speak for yourself. Don't group us together. [quote author=NPComplete post=75370680] |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by NPComplete: 6:48pm On Feb 03, 2019 |
Anas09: I have been ignoring u since and I still wanted to ignore u because u guys can be very dishonest. The mere fact that u want to group all Abrahamic religions together into one so as to suit ur narrative is funny enough. But let me indulge u. For one last time. Since it seems u have left the discussion and purpose of my initial argument on this thread and u are just rambling instead. This thread is about Pascal's Wager. Shadeyinka came in here and started lying like u Christians always do. He compared Pascal's Wager to a pot in the middle of the road with a supposedly deadly snake and the possibility of a reward if u don't stick ur hand in the pot. That is where the initial Christian dishonesty started. In doing so, he has completely discarded opposing views among religions, discarded all the various sects in a religion and discarded all the commandments u have to keep. His argument was like saying believing in a god is enough to guarantee a good afterlife. He conveniently forgot the technicalities. To be clear, in his analogy, the pot is not god. The person who is giving the reward is the god. If u don't understand this, why are u on this thread arguing. In counter to his analogy, I gave another more accurate one. In mine, I actually put the reward inside the pot. Hence the pot contains 100kg of gold. Then I correctly pointed out the fact that most of these religions also claim that the other way will only lead to less than optimal outcomes. Hence the claim that other pots contain poisonous snakes. In my analogy, the pot is the defined way of getting the reward. That way can be one religion or a sect in one religion. It doesn't matter. As long as two sects in the same religion don't agree on the exact way to get the reward, those are 2 different pots. Since Deeper life claims wearing earrings will lead u to hell, and Christ embassy doesn't mind, it means that following Christ embassy puts u at risk of hell if Deeper life turns out to be right. 2 different pots. If u are still not getting it by now, I can't help u. Pascal's Wager is about reward not about gods. The existence of the god is moot. But the reward is there. It tries to help u maximize that reward. But it oversimplifies by assuming just believing in a god is enough for the reward. Whereas there are many other factors to consider. I am not even an atheist but the fact that u guys can't even bring a better argument than a dumb theory like Pascal's Wager is the reason why u keep losing the argument against atheists and skeptics. It is the reason u keep losing your fellow Christians to logic. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by Hermes019: 7:34pm On Feb 03, 2019 |
It is interesting isn't it Theists do not believe in Paschal's wager but some how they expect atheists to be convinced,I have pointed the two problems I have with it and I would point them out again 1)there are many belief systems/religions/gods who promise hell or some sort of after life punishment to non-followers so the problem of which to choose arises remember that the wager is simply "logic" hence working based on that if you choose any of the religions your probability of being correct is really small 2)there is no belief system/religion/God who promises eternal bliss to people who simply belief in it,in fact belief is just the first step For Paschal's wager to make sense the following has to be the case 1) there is only ONE GOD in the picture 2)GOD would offer anyone who simply believes in it eternal life Apparently the former is the case,hence Paschal's Wager is bullshít as far as I'm concerned 1 Like |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 8:31pm On Feb 03, 2019 |
frank317:Believing in God as a Backup isn't Faith! What is Pascal's Wager all about? Then don't change the Pascals Wager into something it is not. The Pascal's Wager is focused on the Fundermentals (believe in God): it doesn't focus on Obedience to Gods WILL. Without the Believe, It is impossible to Obey . The argument of whether the God of Abraham is YHWH or Allah falls under Obedience! |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 8:35pm On Feb 03, 2019 |
frank317:You are trying hard to use the "Principle of Exception". Your question about my personal belive does not answer Pascal's postulate! |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by hakeem4(m): 8:37pm On Feb 03, 2019 |
bloodofthelamb:that is good of you. when you mean experience what do you actually mean. can you give me example of the experience you get |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by Anas09: 8:39pm On Feb 03, 2019 |
NPComplete:Yes, Pascal Wager is not about gods but rewards, why then did you bring in the 500 others religious gods? Remember no one mention gods but you. If you can go back and read again, it was because of you mentioning gods that made me ask you how many of your gods promises rewards in the AfterLife. But, You have craftily evaded that but are everywhere shouting dishonesty. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by bloodofthelamb(m): 9:32pm On Feb 03, 2019 |
hakeem4: Where do I start? Can you understand spiritual things? Though cannot fully put it in words but I will try. Every time I lift up a song to the Lord, proclaiming him as my righteousness his anointing floods me like a river. It keeps pouring on me even as I am typing this now. I must tell you that nobody is physically pouring anything on my head but I keep experiencing liquid like substance dropping on me with great intensity. What about the coolest breeze of His presence blowing on me. Or should I talk about sparks of light I keep experiencing especially when I am meditating on his amazing love for me. l have so many more but let me stop here and wait for your mocking. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 6:27am On Feb 04, 2019 |
NPComplete:I can see why it is difficult having an intelligent conversation with you! ...a lie is a comparison/analogy! SMH Please find a single document from deeper life that says this. If you cannot find one, we know who the lier is! |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by NPComplete: 6:56am On Feb 04, 2019 |
shadeyinka: Lol. I was born and raised in Deeper life, u clown. I don't need a document to tell u what I grew up learning. There's even a Bible verse we use to support the argument then. And, yes, an analogy is a lie if you deliberately leave out details of the real thing and oversimplify it in order to help your argument. If your analogy deliberately avoids majority of the variables in reality. Then it is no longer an analogy. Because it is in no way analogous. It becomes a fabrication. Which is what liars do. Anyone still quoting Paschal's Wager as an analog to reality is a liar. You, my friend, are the biggest liar of them all. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by frank317: 7:43am On Feb 04, 2019 |
shadeyinka: Lol @ document from deeper life that claims wearing earring is a sin? Are u for real? And when someone calls u dishonest or lying u take offence. The fact is that u are yet to take a stand on Pascal's wager... Are u for it or against it? |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 7:57am On Feb 04, 2019 |
See how the lying spirit artfully twisted it again! Since Deeper life claims wearing earrings will lead u to hell frank317: Every church has an article of belief, it's not difficult to quote out of it! Lying lier! |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 8:06am On Feb 04, 2019 |
NPComplete:Deeper lives doctrine should not be difficult for you to get since you were a former member. Just quote from the Articles of Faith of Deeper life and I will know your aren't a Lier! Since Deeper life claims wearing earrings will lead u to hell, |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by NPComplete: 8:20am On Feb 04, 2019 |
shadeyinka: I am not showing u jack. Any real deeper life member can attest to what I say I don't need to show any document to an artful dodger like u. Even your fellow Christians can't argue against this. Everyone who comes to read this conversation now can easily tell what a liar u are. Lol. You have done my work here for me. Dishonest Christian. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 8:34am On Feb 04, 2019 |
NPComplete:Case established! No evidence...but I should go and ask deep life members. You insinuated: what deeper Iife believes was as per going to hell with nothing to substanciate! |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by frank317: 8:50am On Feb 04, 2019 |
shadeyinka: Chairman, i, particular was brought up in a Pentecostal church, watchman catholic renewal movement in particular. Here wearing earring or trouser is a sin that can lead one to hell. Praying to Mary mother of Jesus is a sin, while Catholic deeem it fit to continue asking her to help them talk to Jesus. My dad practically ensured my sisters do not wear earring and till date he complains whenever his sees my wife wear them. I practically heard pastor muoka, choosen founder, say that ladies who wear earring will burn in hell. I really don't know what u are about. U musnt lie to won argumenta |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 9:08am On Feb 04, 2019 |
frank317:All I needed was a quote from a written document officially belonging to DCLM. Is it too much to ask from a person who's Justification of not believing in God is Lack of (physical) Evidence!? |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by frank317: 10:53am On Feb 04, 2019 |
shadeyinka: Written document of what they preach? Are u deliberately acting like a yahoo yahoo boy? |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by NPComplete: 12:34pm On Feb 04, 2019 |
shadeyinka: Keep clowning yourself. I have established what I want to establish here. Hide ur head in the sand all u want. The mere fact u have to lie about Deeper Life and earrings just to help yourself shows my job is done here. This clown was even asking me to quote Deeper Life articles of faith as if those doctrines explicitly state the sins or acts Deeper Life abhors. And because he knows he himself is a damned liar, he thinks everyone is a liar like him so I must be lying about my history with Deeper Life. Pathetic. Lol Even current Deeper Life members will be shaking their head at ur dishonesty and the shame u are bringing to Christianity. Lol. Lying Christian. 1 Like |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by hakeem4(m): 12:47pm On Feb 04, 2019 |
bloodofthelamb:well I understand where you’re coming from, but what I can tell you is when next you have these type of feelings, we can take you for an EEG test , then we tell you what part of your brain is showing those electric patterns, and tell you how exactly you’re feeling which means it’s not god. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 4:45pm On Feb 04, 2019 |
NPComplete:It's amazing the kind of unwholesome words that comes from your heart in the name of a mere difference in opinion! SMH Shaithan is indeed succeeding! |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 4:57pm On Feb 04, 2019 |
frank317:Articles of Faith! This is where the doctrinal believes of a Church is explicitly stated out! . |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by frank317: 5:20pm On Feb 04, 2019 |
shadeyinka: Where u given any article of faith before u knew ur church doctrine? Throughout my years in my church, I never saw any article of faith but I knew what the watchman doctrine was. I know the JW doctrine and I have never seen their article of faith. This is what they preach. I think u have just run our of what to say. I am still to take ur stand on pascal's wager, u didn't respond to my last response to ur comment on it. Stop this joke and get back to topic 1 Like |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by NPComplete: 6:56pm On Feb 04, 2019 |
frank317: Don't mind the guy. He has run out of points and ideas. The Deeper Life articles of faith doesn't even mention fornication as a sin. Nor does it mention murder. According to that clown, Deeperlife do not believe both of those acts can lead anyone to hell since they are not in their articles of faith. LMAO |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by shadeyinka(m): 8:12pm On Feb 04, 2019 |
frank317:Then, before you conclude on what you think others believe, ask for their article of Faith. I don't know a single Church which doesn't have one. |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by bloodofthelamb(m): 8:38pm On Feb 04, 2019 |
hakeem4: Did I expect more? Certainly not! |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by frank317: 6:50am On Feb 05, 2019 |
shadeyinka:No be only article of faith. Have u seen Jw article of faith? Do they accept blood transmission? |
Re: Why You Should Not Take The Pascal's Wager And Become An Athiest by frank317: 6:53am On Feb 05, 2019 |
shadeyinka:Back up for who? People of faith? If it isn't faith why are people of faith quoting it? Why should people of faith use something that isn't faith as back up?
We are not changing it, we are saying its insufficient and has so many floors for people of faith. |
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