gensteejay:

Autistics could be suffering from Yahweh's eternal punishment. You know that's how Jesus, their ever-loving god, shows his power — by punishing innocent children for the sins of their ancestors, who are long gone, sins the kids know nothing about. Jehovah, indeed, love his worshipers unconditionally.

doesn't seem like what a loving Father would do - punishing your children's children for the sin of your children it could also be interpreted as a father punishing his grand children or great grand children for the sins of his own children. sick! Who does that? A psychopath I presume. but who are we to question him? he's like the despotic and tyrannical king whom his followers pledge allegiance to, not because they truly love him but because they are afraid of the wicked and inhumane torture he will subject them to should they not want to follow him.

TV01:

What is sexual orientation? Sex is a biomechanical act. It is functional, to which the ontology of the human body fully attests. Whatever this "orientation" is, if it does not accord with functionality is that not in some way discordant?

Please educate yourself on sexual orientation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation

Pray tell, what are these verifiable biological factors?


Cheers
TV

Please Educate yourself on Homosexuality and it factors.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality

tintingz:
Please educate yourself on sexual orientation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation

Always happy to learn something new

Having educated myself, with the reference you kindly provided, it is clear that "sexual orientation" is nothing more than social shorthand for categorising sexual behaviour. It is no more scientific than a predilection for native over western attire. Or say a preference for rice over noodles. At best one can state that the cause is unknown, not proclaim that it is "scientifically proven" to be due to one thing or another.

I quote;

The term sexual preference largely overlaps with sexual orientation. Scientists do not know the exact cause of sexual orientation, but they theorize that it is caused by a complex interplay of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences.They favor biologically-based theories

tintingz:
Please Educate yourself on Homosexuality and it factors.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality

Apart from subject differences the referenced page literally mirrored the one above. Again, I quote;

Scientists do not know what determines an individual's sexual orientation, but they theorize that it is caused by a complex interplay of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences, and do not view it as a choice.They favor biologically-based theories,

What we can say for sure is that the complementarity of male/female is ontologically self-evident. And we don't need dubious statements from "science so called" to deduce that. Further, we see that the correctly ordered sexual union of male and female has an outcome.

Now, having said that, even if it could be confirmed as genetic, congenital or deemed natural, that speaks nothing to the morality of the behaviour, as science (and I mean proper empirical science, not the pseudo type referenced to legitimise the abnormal), is no arbiter of morality.

Always happy to educate myself and at once school the unlearned .


Cheers
TV

iRyan:
Autism is unnatural because it is a disorder? oh lord! we should round up all autistic people and send them off to Mars. It is either you do not understand what the word natural means or you just had to define it differently to justify your bigotry and intolerance? it's either of the two

Emotions! They won't achieve anything.
Autism is an unnatural phenomenon. I didn't say that autistic people are not humans. Neither did I say that they should be killed or rejected. Autistic people are human beings, but their mental state is not the natural mental state of humans. Aren't scientists looking for a cure? Such people need care and support.

May be you should find out the meaning of natural.

Bigotry and intolerance? Your opinion. I won't yield to emotional blackmail.

gensteejay:

Autistics could be suffering from Yahweh's eternal punishment. You know that's how Jesus, their ever-loving god, shows his power — by punishing innocent children for the sins of their ancestors, who are long gone, sins the kids know nothing about. Jehovah, indeed, love his worshipers unconditionally.

See this one! Who do think you are mocking? Listen!!!

Isaiah 57:3-5 'But you - come here, you children of a sorceress, you offspring of adulterers and prostitutes! Who are mocking? At whom do you sneer and stick out your tongue? Are you not a brood of rebels, the offspring of liars? You burn with lust among the oaks and under every spreading tree; you sacrifice your children in the ravines and under the overhanging crags.


Who said anything about Yahweh punishing children with autism? Your hatred for your Creator will only be your undoing at the end of the age. Your rejection of him will not remove anything from him.

Yes, YaHVeH El Shaddai punishes the children for the sins of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate him. He will never punish the innocent and he will never acquit the guilty. If you reject him, he will reject you. If you despise him, he will despise you. If you show yourself crooked, he will show himself shrewd.

TV01:

Always happy to learn something new

Having educated myself, with the reference you kindly provided, it is clear that "sexual orientation" is nothing more than social shorthand for categorising sexual behaviour. It is no more scientific than a predilection for native over western attire. Or say a preference for rice over noodles. At best one can state that the cause is unknown, not proclaim that it is "scientifically proven" to be due to one thing or another.

I quote;




Apart from subject differences the referenced page literally mirrored the one above. Again, I quote;

What we can say for sure is that the complementarity of male/female is ontologically self-evident. And we don't need dubious statements from "science so called" to deduce that. Further, we see that the correctly ordered sexual union of male and female has an outcome.

Now, having said that, even if it could be confirmed as genetic, congenital or deemed natural, that speaks nothing to the morality of the behaviour, as science (and I mean proper empirical science, not the pseudo type referenced to legitimise the abnormal), is no arbiter of morality.

Always happy to educate myself and at once school the unlearned .


Cheers
TV

You're just attacking straws.

Didn't I said we don't fully understand this phenomena in my premise?

Here is what i said.

What do you say about natural disaster?

Dude nature doesn't need to have purpose.

Yawning for example is natural but we don't even know it purpose yet or why we yawn.

We don't know what cause sexual orientation, talkless of being gay.

I think it is fallacious to conclude homosexual is unnatural when we have millions, billions of natural phenomena we don't even know their causes and purpose.

https://www.nairaland.com/4984542/homosexuality/2#75148777

Homosexuality is part of sexual orientation and we don't fully understand this phenomena.

https://www.nairaland.com/4984542/homosexuality/2#75148856

Go through the premise before you attack fallacies.

Nature doesn't need to have purpose, nature doesn't need to be all positive!

elated177:


[s]See this one! Who do think you are mocking? Listen!!!

Isaiah 57:3-5 'But you - come here, you children of a sorceress, you offspring of adulterers and prostitutes! Who are mocking? At whom do you sneer and stick out your tongue? Are you not a brood of rebels, the offspring of liars? You burn with lust among the oaks and under every spreading tree; you sacrifice your children in the ravines and under the overhanging craps.


Who said anything about Yahweh punishing children with autism? Your hatred for your Creator will only be your undoing at the end of the age. Your rejection of him will not remove anything from him.

Yes, YaHVeH El Shaddai punishes the children for the sins of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate him. He will never punish the innocent and he will never acquit the guilty. If you reject him, he will reject you. If you despise him, he will despise you. If you show yourself crooked, he will show himself shrewd[/s].

Trash.

Let's know things you've independently read and researched yourself, not merely regurgitating erroneous beliefs and anachronistic notions in the 2000-year-old Bible, as it's passed down from slave masters and colonialists to our forefathers.

tintingz:
You're just attacking straws.

Didn't I said we don't fully understand this phenomena in my premise?

Here is what is said.


https://www.nairaland.com/4984542/homosexuality/2#75148777


https://www.nairaland.com/4984542/homosexuality/2#75148856

Go through the premise before you attack fallacies.

Nature doesn't need to have purpose, nature doesn't need to be all positive!

You clearly asserted that homosexuality has biological factors. I asked that you state what they are. Don't backtrack. Citing theories and what "scientists" believe amounts to very little.

Either it is known, not known, or known in part. You have managed to claim not known and known in part, without being abe to outline the part (biological) you claim to be known. And then citing nature, as if everything that occurs in "nature" is somehow morally justified.



Cheers
TV

TV01:

You clearly asserted that homosexuality has biological factors. I asked that you state what they are. Don't backtrack. Citing theories and what "scientists" believe amounts to very little.

Either it is known, not known, or known in part. You have managed to claim not known and known on part, without being abe to outline the part (biological) you claim to be known. And then citing nature, as if everything that occurs in "nature" is somehow morally justified.

My goodness.
The exact causes for Homosexuality is unknown but scientists have been able to do some experiments to theorize the causes, there are like three factors brought forward. Biological factors, Environmental factors and Psychological factors.

Here is from the link I provided.

Scientists do not know what determines an individual's sexual orientation, but they theorize that it is caused by a complex interplay of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences, and do not view it as a choice. They favor biologically-based theories, which point to genetic factors, the early uterine environment, both, or the inclusion of genetic and social factors. Hypotheses for the impact of the post-natal social environment on sexual orientation, however, are weak, especially for males. There is no substantive evidence which suggests parenting or early childhood experiences play a role with regard to sexual orientation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality

I thought you even read through the link. A scientific theory does not equate to weak research.

And everything that occur in nature cannot be eradicate, as long as it doesn't hurt fellow human why having problem with it? If a gay is kind and good to people why do you think he must be jailed or killed?

Please don't give me headache this evening.

tintingz:
My goodness.
The exact causes for Homosexuality is unknown but scientists have been able to do some experiments to theorize the causes, there are like three factors brought forward. Biological factors, Environmental factors and Psychological factors.

Here is from the link I provided.

Scientists do not know what determines an individual's sexual orientation, but they theorize that it is caused by a complex interplay of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences, and do not view it as a choice. They favor biologically-based theories, which point to genetic factors, the early uterine environment, both, or the inclusion of genetic and social factors. Hypotheses for the impact of the post-natal social environment on sexual orientation, however, are weak, especially for males. There is no substantive evidence which suggests parenting or early childhood experiences play a role with regard to sexual orientation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality

I thought you even read through the link. A scientific theory does not equate to weak research.

And everything that occur in nature cannot be eradicate, as long as it doesn't hurt fellow human why having problem with it? If a gay is kind and good to people why do you think he must be jailed or killed?

Please don't give me headache this evening.

"Scientists do not know, they theorize, they favour"? You now claim experiments have been carried out. What did these experiments conclude?

I never said anything about eradicating everything in nature. Neither did I mention sanctions against "gay" people - let alone jailing or killing. My entry point was around the etiology of homosexuality, which you asserted was partly biological. Whereby I asked you to kindly enunciate what the biological factors were.

Research that is inconclusive and leaves scientists not knowing, theorising and favouring is inconclusive - i.e. weak. Please don't have a headache, you already sound wound up. I shall leave it.


Cheers
TV

TV01:

"Scientists do not know, they theorize they favour". You now claim experiments have been carried out. What did these experiments conclude?

I never said anything about eradicating everything in nature. Niether did I mention sanctions against "gay" people - let alone jailing or killing. My entry point was around the etiology of homosexuality, which you asserted was partly biological. Whereby I asked you to kindly enunciate what the biological factors were.

Research that is inconclusive and leaves scientists not knowing, ththeorising and favouring is inconclusive - i.e. weak. Please don't have a headache, you alrady sound wound up. I shall leave it.


Cheers
TV

My goodness. This dude does not even understand anything I'm saying here.

The cause of Homosexuality is unknown, but there are theories of what could cause it which biological factors is one of them, saying Homosexuality is unnatural is fallacious as there are chances it could fall under biological factors in the future.

tintingz:
My goodness. This dude does not even understand anything I'm saying here.

Lol

Akin1212:


Lol

I'm already having headache.

gensteejay:

Trash.

Let's know things you've independently read and researched yourself, not merely regurgitating erroneous beliefs and anachronistic notions in the 2000-year-old Bible, as it's passed down from slave masters and colonialists to our forefathers.

Isaiah 57:3-5 'But you - come here, you children of a sorceress, you offspring of adulterers and prostitutes! Who are you mocking? At whom do you sneer and stick out your tongue? Are you not a brood of rebels, the offspring of liars? You burn with lust among the oaks and under every spreading tree; you sacrifice your children in the ravines and under the overhanging crags.

tintingz:
My goodness. This dude does not even understand anything I'm saying here.

The cause of Homosexuality is unknown, but there are theories of what could cause it which biological factors is one of them, saying Homosexuality is unnatural is fallacious as there are chances it could fall under biological factors in the future.

There is nothing fallacious in saying that homosexuality is unnatural. It is unnatural. Nature abhors it. Plain and simple. The sexual attraction that exists between people of the same sex is unnatural. The body itself abhors it.

elated177:


There is nothing fallacious in saying that homosexuality is unnatural. It is unnatural. Nature abhors it. Plain and simple. The sexual attraction that exists between people of the same sex is unnatural. The body itself abhors it.

The body told you that it abhors it? If it is against nature then why do other animals do it, or have you forgotten that humans are also animals?

Akin1212:

The body told you that it abhors it? If it is against nature then why do other animals do it, or have you forgotten that humans are also animals?

Animals form homosexual relationships Yeh sure, they also congregate at gay bars . Who comes up with these arguments? Animals are brute beasts, driven by instinct. A dog will mate with a vacuum cleaner if no female is available. So humans are brute beasts now?

All kinds of beastly behaviour occur in the animal kingdom, Does it follow for humans to? Take your pick, cannibalism, incest and infanticide, to name a few.

And yes, the body does abhor it. The pathologies of same sex relationships are well documented. And it's more than just headaches .


TV

Nature is screwing Man and Man has to screw Nature in order to solve his natural problems.

elated177:


There is nothing fallacious in saying that homosexuality is unnatural. It is unnatural. Nature abhors it. Plain and simple. The sexual attraction that exists between people of the same sex is unnatural. The body itself abhors it.

Empty claims.

Is natural disasters unnatural?

Can you tell me why we yawn, is it natural?

Is Homosexuality among animals unnatural?

Infact there are many natural phenomena that has no purpose, we don't even know some of their causes.

Kindly provide evidence of what causes sexual orientation.

TV01:
Animals form homosexual relationships Yeh sure, they also congregate at gay bars . Who comes up with these arguments? Animals are brute beasts, driven by instinct. A dog will mate with a vacuum cleaner if no female is available. So humans are brute beasts now?

All kinds of beastly behaviour occur in the animal kingdom, Does it follow for humans to? Take your pick, cannibalism, incest and infanticide, to name a few.

And yes, the body does abhor it. The pathologies of same sex relationships are well documented. And it's more than just headaches .


TV

Do you even read the nonsense you just spew?

elated177:


Isaiah 57:3-5 'But you - come here, you children of a sorceress, you offspring of adulterers and prostitutes! Who are you mocking? At whom do you sneer and stick out your tongue? Are you not a brood of rebels, the offspring of liars? You burn with lust among the oaks and under every spreading tree; you sacrifice your children in the ravines and under the overhanging crags.

Didn't your God ordered Abraham to sacrifice his son for him to test his obedience?

TV01:
Animals form homosexual relationships Yeh sure, they also congregate at gay bars . Who comes up with these arguments? Animals are brute beasts, driven by instinct. A dog will mate with a vacuum cleaner if no female is available. So humans are brute beasts now?

Lmao, you're yet to really understand the human nature. So you haven't seen humans, esp men fvucking a hole on the wall? You haven't seen women, fuvking inanimate objects like bottles and cucumbers? Who told you that humans are not subject to instincts? Are you thinking this through before responding or replying?

Congregating at gay bars is not what defines homosexuality, homosexuality is simply the act when animals of the same sex mate, whether it is done in the bush, water, sky, on a tree or on a mattress doesn't make it less what it is. You need to understand that. Any other thing that is attached to it is a social construct of how different animals socialize.

TV01:


All kinds of beastly behaviour occur in the animal kingdom, Does it follow for humans to? Take your pick, cannibalism, incest and infanticide, to name a few.

And yes, the body does abhor it. The pathologies of same sex relationships are well documented. And it's more than just headaches .


TV

What do you mean by does it follow for humans? I didn't stutter when I said humans are animals, or you didn't read that clearly? Cannibalism, incest and infanticide, yeah humans do these things. Do you need to be schooled or told this in 2019? Name all you want to name, fathers have sex with their daughters, sons have sex with their mothers too, talk more of sisters to brothers. Please don't even respond again. I could see why Tingtinz ignored you now.

Even opposite sex relationship has 100s of pathologies that are well documented, does the body abhor it too? You're just one of the homophobic people who are concerned about what does not in any way affect your life.

tintingz:
Do you even read the nonsense you just spew?

I thought you were excused to attend to your malady? Or, have you managed to unearth those mysterious biological factors

Akin1212:
Lmao, you're yet to really understand the human nature. So you haven't seen humans, esp men fvucking a hole on the wall? You haven't seen women, fuvking inanimate objects like bottles and cucumbers? Who told you that humans are not subject to instincts? Are you thinking this through before responding or replying?

A man penetrating a "hole in a wall" or, a woman intimately abusing herself with an inanimate object is instinct? And my thinking is been questioned by such a one . Truly this runs deep

Mating by dumb animals is done with an outcome in mind. As instinct driven as they are, same sex animals will never, in lieu of an opposite sex counterpart, seek to mate with one another. And, there is no evidence that demonstrates same sex animals seek to form pair bonds for sexual gratification or mating by instinct. Dumb I said, not cray-cray.

Akin1212:
Congregating at gay bars is not what defines homosexuality, homosexuality is simply the act when animals of the same sex mate, whether it is done in the bush, water, sky, on a tree or on a mattress doesn't make it less what it is. You need to understand that. Any other thing that is attached to it is a social construct of how different animals socialize.

Man who in a pure state is capable of communing with the divine, who has the imprint of God. Man who has higher consciousness and the ability to conceptualise is by reason of depravity reduced to the level of brute beast .

Mans nature now runs the gamut from the holy to the profane, from the divine to the perverted and, to justify that which is dysfunctional and abhorrent, you would place the base animalist desires of the fallen man to the fore. Denying their estate as men, they prefer to be as the beasts

Rightly Jude the Apostle spoke - 6 Remember the angels who did not stay within the limits of their proper authority, but abandoned their own dwelling place: they are bound with eternal chains in the darkness below, where God is keeping them for that great Day on which they will be condemned. 7 Remember Sodom and Gomorrah, and the nearby towns, whose people acted as those angels did and indulged in sexual immorality and perversion: they suffer the punishment of eternal fire as a plain warning to all.

Akin1212:
What do you mean by does it follow for humans? I didn't stutter when I said humans are animals, or you didn't read that clearly? Cannibalism, incest and infanticide, yeah humans do these things. Do you need to be schooled or told this in 2019? Name all you want to name, fathers have sex with their daughters, sons have sex with their mothers too, talk more of sisters to brothers. Please don't even respond again. I could see why Tingtinz ignored you now.

I have answered you above. Your warped reasoning says anything humans do is instinct. And anything instinctive is therefore deemed morally good or acceptable?

Akin1212:
Even opposite sex relationship has 100s of pathologies that are well documented, does the body abhor it too? You're just one of the homophobic people who are concerned about what does not in any way affect your life.

There are no inherent pathologies with the rightly ordered union of male and female.

Your profanity reeks.


TV

TV01:

I thought you were excused to attend to your malady? Or, have you managed to unearth those mysterious biological factors


A man penetrating a "hole in a wall" or, a woman intimately abusing herself with an inanimate object is instinct? And my thinking is been questioned by such a one . Truly this runs deep

Mating by dumb animals is done with an outcome in mind. As instinct driven as they are, same sex animals will never, in lieu of an opposite sex counterpart, seek to mate with one another. And, there is no evidence that demonstrates same sex animals seek to form pair bonds for sexual gratification or mating by instinct. Dumb I said, not cray-cray.


Man who in a pure state is capable of communing with the divine, who has the imprint of God. Man who has higher consciousness and the ability to conceptualise is by reason of depravity reduced to the level of brute beast .

Mans nature now runs the gamut from the holy to the profane, from the divine to the perverted and, to justify that which is dysfunctional and abhorrent, you would place the base animalist desires of the fallen man to the fore. Denying their estate as men, they prefer to be as the beasts

Rightly Jude the Apostle spoke - 6 Remember the angels who did not stay within the limits of their proper authority, but abandoned their own dwelling place: they are bound with eternal chains in the darkness below, where God is keeping them for that great Day on which they will be condemned. 7 Remember Sodom and Gomorrah, and the nearby towns, whose people acted as those angels did and indulged in sexual immorality and perversion: they suffer the punishment of eternal fire as a plain warning to all.

I have answered you above. Your warped reasoning says anything humans do is instinct. And anything instinctive is therefore deemed morally good or acceptable?


There are no inherent pathologies with the rightly ordered union of male and female.

Your profanity reeks.


TV

You're such a waste of time. Goodbye

TV01:


Mating by dumb animals is done with an outcome in mind. As instinct driven as they are, same sex animals will never, in lieu of an opposite sex counterpart, seek to mate with one another. And, there is no evidence that demonstrates same sex animals seek to form pair bonds for sexual gratification or mating by instinct. Dumb I said, not cray-cray.

Wait what are you saying here? That there doesn't exist examples of animals forming lasting same sex bonds (for sex)?

Akin1212:
You're such a waste of time. Goodbye

Yeah, because I really wanted to hang out with you - wallowing in mud as we discussed inter-family homosex and eagerly anticipated hot steaming bowls of our own pan-fried excrement for lunch.

LordReed:
Wait what are you saying here? That there doesn't exist examples of animals forming lasting same sex bonds (for sex)?

Not really. And even where it might happen, it would be due to misreading of the social protocols amongst animals, dysfunction in the individuals or in their settings.

I wonder, although I'm not really surprised, at how anyone would introduce animal behaviour to justify the same in humans. Dysfunction across species is still dysfunction, not justification. Do we even do that for behaviour that can be considered morally neutral?

It's my fault. What has the holy to do with the profane, or the pure with the perverted. Go ahead, enjoy time grooming each others armpits ahead of your hot steaming bowls .


TV

TV01:


I wonder, although I'm not really surprised, at how anyone would introduce animal behaviour to justify the same in humans. Dysfunction across species is still dysfunction, not justification. Do we even do that for behaviour that can be considered morally neutral?


TV

What are humans, in terms of biological classification. Plants or Animals? And if you want extended options, chose among any of these - Monera, protista, fungi, plantae and animalia.

TV01:
Yeah, because I really wanted to hang out with you - wallowing in mud as we discussed inter-family homosex and eagerly anticipated hot steaming bowls of our own pan-fried excrement for lunch.

Not really. And even where it might happen, it would be due to misreading of the social protocols amongst animals, dysfunction in the individuals or in their settings.

I wonder, although I'm not really surprised, at how anyone would introduce animal behaviour to justify the same in humans. Dysfunction across species is still dysfunction, not justification. Do we even do that for behaviour that can be considered morally neutral?

It's my fault. What has the holy to do with the profane, or the pure with the perverted. Go ahead, enjoy time grooming each others armpits ahead of your hot steaming bowls .


TV

LoL so a question is what is evoking this childish outburst? SMDH

tintingz:
Didn't your God ordered Abraham to sacrifice his son for him to test his obedience?

Eheh?

tintingz:
Empty claims.

Is natural disasters unnatural?

Can you tell me why we yawn, is it natural?

Is Homosexuality among animals unnatural?

Infact there are many natural phenomena that has no purpose, we don't even know some of their causes.

Kindly provide evidence of what causes sexual orientation.

Who has that kind of time.

Akin1212:
What are humans, in terms of biological classification. Plants or Animals? And if you want extended options, chose among any of these - Monera, protista, fungi, plantae and animalia.

Whichever classification captures creatures imprinted with the image of God. Or perhaps one that includes beings capable of abstract thought. Maybe a class whose constituents possess the ability to create and manage advanced multi-varied technological processes.

Then again, you may well prefer to categorise them along with animals who consume their own faeces. Speaking of which, did you enjoy your hot steaming plate of mashed doo-doo yesterday?

LordReed:
LoL so a question is what is evoking this childish outburst? SMDH

Wait, let me get this right; someone who believes that it's ok for human beings to employ their waste as a food source and for sexual pleasure is attempting to take the moral high ground


Morning All,
TV