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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View (4585 Views)
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Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by Akin1212(m): 12:10am On Mar 01, 2019 |
budaatum: Your explanation is still suiting my narrative. There's no where you take it to that won't suit what my narrative is. And my narrative is that the whole story was a cooked up story that was poorly written. If they could do something else that would lead to their death, how does this God of creation becomes perfect in the story? Beside the fact that you bringing up that they could have died by doing something else is a fallacy and straw man, what was written was that they ate from a tree and death came because they did so. Death came does not mean they died instantly, but the disobedience opened them up for death. So what's your point again? |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by MuttleyLaff: 9:14am On Mar 01, 2019 |
Akin1212:So you admit that you've unfortunately managed to muck up the water with the inconsequent reasons you advanced because sin actually entered the world through one man's disobedience, and death actually came to man, through and/or because of this disobedience sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all, by de facto, sinned You partner is incorrigible on this subject, as I have previously told our dear friend that the comment "you shall surely die" made by God, means "die slowly", as the original word and verb used is "muth" signifying "to die". That, if the fruit is eaten, then death, incontrovertibly, will happen immediately without delay but the consummation of it, is at a later or future time. The serpent tried to spin this, by insisting Man would not surely die, but that instead, Man's will eyes will be opened and Man will be like God, knowing good and evil. We now know Man surely dies and the earth too is slowly depreciating and deteriorating Akin1212:If at all the whole story was a cooked up story, there is nothing that is poorly written about it. The perfection of God is not in question, the wages of sin is death and the same sin and death eventually will be no more 1 Like |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by budaatum: 9:44am On Mar 01, 2019 |
Goldenventures:Thanks for this. Maybe if Akin1212 would take note and stop taking it as historical fact he might comprehend what I've said. |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by Nobody: 10:24am On Mar 01, 2019 |
They had a choice to make,to remain obedient and continue their learning process which of course will take time depending on the discretion of their maker and teacher{God} or to disobey and see the other side if there is something they needed know faster than the teaching technique introduced by their teacher. Of course like any other intelligent being they chose adventure rather than ever waiting for their teachers instructions on what's next! Surely they understood what death means because the story you're picking this from also clearly stated that God told Adam 'you will die',in any language or sign that's best understandable to this single intelligent creature back then in that garden God made himself clear on what death means! Sadly today majority claiming christians have twisted the meaning of that word 'death' thus making it meaningless in comparison to the real import{cease to exist} What majority of mankind is yearning for today is just what Adam and Eve wanted back then in that garden, most people feels like God is just too slow or dull with his program,so many like you have concluded that there is no God! They reasoned that if he truly exist,what has he been doing all this while? When evil is carried out every second. But the TRUTH is that God has his own teaching technique and nobody can hurry him up out of anxiety so any student that feels like leaving his faculty due to his style of teaching is free to leave! |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by calculator123(m): 12:14pm On Mar 01, 2019 |
Akin1212:the big question most theist run away from is who created the evil and satan is that garden? if is Good the he has some element of evil too |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by jom28gy(m): 9:57pm On Mar 13, 2023 |
Akin1212:I think, you were sensible here, and logical too, the common laws says,a person should not be punished for the offence it penalty is not written as law, this stories seems to be concorted by people,who have the opportunities of doing so.can God punished somebody for what they did not know? |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by Kobojunkie: 10:05pm On Mar 13, 2023 |
jom28gy:There was a law given and Adam broke that very law. |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by budaatum: 10:05pm On Mar 13, 2023 |
Akin1212: Where you been? Funny that you were arguing with a person who claims and agrees that all stories are cooked up by human beings. As to its poorly written, guess that's what we got, so understand it as it is, or not. |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by Kobojunkie: 10:06pm On Mar 13, 2023 |
calculator123:1. God created good and evil. He hinted at this by the fact that the tree He commanded man not to steal from was referred to as the tree of knowledge of good and evil. |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by tctrills: 10:24pm On Mar 13, 2023 |
Akin1212:You are very important questions but you got a few things wrong. 1. They were not zombies. They had good processing power. Remember, Adam named all creatures. We can say that they were like kids. At what age do kids begin to understand wrong and right, it's hard to say. And you are correct, they did not commit sin. You need the knowledge of right and wrong before you can commit sin. Now just because your 4 years old child does not fully understand sin, does that mean you wouldn't punish him if he steals meat from your pot? |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by budaatum: 10:26pm On Mar 13, 2023 |
Akin1212: Before we read God created Adam and Eve, we read that God had made "mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground” , and those humans could not possibly have been "zombies" or they would not possibly have been able to rule over anything. Even their reward/pay was greater than Adam and Eve's, being "every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food”. As opposed to Adam and Eve's reduced "free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die”. So why doesn't it occur to anyone to ask why Adam and Eve are a demotion from the humans created before them, I wonder? |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by Kobojunkie: 10:45pm On Mar 13, 2023 |
Akin1212:1. This conclusion is wrong! Adam and Eve were quite capable of logically processing their surroundings from when they were created so they were far from zombies. They did not require full knowledge of evil in order to obey the simple command aka Law which was given to them. Yes, there was a Law that was given to them. 2. The statement in bold is an assumption on your part. 3. One does not first have to have an understanding of good and evil, bad and whatever else to obey a simple command. "Stop!" for instance! You don't first require a complete understanding of the situation around you to know that when someone shouts, you should probably just stop. Also, we don't have enough details from the narrative to fully conclude that Adam and Eve didn't fully understand the consequence of their choice. 4. Sin refers simply to disobedience of God's commandment. That is simply what sin is. God gave Adam a commandment/Law which was that Adam not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Adam sinned against God when he choose to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. There is no requirement given by God that one first have a full understanding of good and evil prior to committing a sin against Him. That is another faulty assumption of yours. |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by jom28gy(m): 12:47am On Mar 17, 2023 |
Kobojunkie:so what are you insinuating? |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by Kobojunkie: 12:48am On Mar 17, 2023 |
jom28gy:Adam stole from God against God's command and that is what sin is— disobedience of God's commandment. |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by Kobojunkie: 3:11am On Mar 17, 2023 |
Akin1212:1. You keep running on and on about free will but what is free will in the scope of scripture? It is simply a choice between right and wrong, A and B. Even a baby could do that. Adam was given, not 10 but just one command and that command boiled down to do not steal from that tree which belongs to me. 2. That fails on all sides. The serpent was created by God. Adam himself named the serpent. So, why you would think it makes sense to suggest that because Adam had a choice to make as far as whether to obey a direct command from His creator or not, appeared to adam the same as making a choice presented to him by the serpent which he named is ludicrous. Even babies are known to be able to tell their mothers apart from complete strangers. 3. You have yet to point out a single lie in the story are all you continue to assert instead are private delusions of yours. |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by jom28gy(m): 5:41am On Mar 17, 2023 |
Kobojunkie:what did Adam stoled? |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by Kobojunkie: 5:50am On Mar 17, 2023 |
jom28gy:You read the book at all? He stole from the tree of knowledge of good and evil which belonged to God- Genesis 3. |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by cezarman(m): 8:15am On Mar 17, 2023 |
live4dgospel: Genesis 11:5-7 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” Lol don't tell me the main reason he destroyed the tower was because he was scared of what the people could achieve 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by Techobeys: 8:28am On Mar 17, 2023 |
Akin1212: I’m afraid you’re the one who needs to think deep for once in your life in this occasion sir. So I’ll just take you on a short ride so your brain don’t get blown out. Promise no bible verse, just logic. I think it’s rather flimsy for you to assume that Adam and Eve didn’t know what’s good or bad before eating of there tree. Because if one hasn’t experienced death (which can be better put “eat the fruit of death”) that does not mean of ignorance of death. So your assumption that they were like zombie is illogical and unreasonable. Not have Experiential/personal knowledge of anything does not equate ignorance of that thing. Experiential knowledge give certain result, and knowledge based on reason give certain results. Many scientific knowledge are solely based on reason (and we call them theories), but we do not and cannot have experiential knowledge of such things, yet we are not ignorant of such things. Also, I think you overly simplified or twisted what God said just to make your point. This is a common attribute of life and in psychology, it’s a product of non thinking or shabby thinking. You claimed God said they’ll know good and evil if they eat that tree. That’s not true, that’s not what God said. God said they’ll die if they eat of that tree. So i really don’t know if you read from the Bible or just imagined some words off your head. So endeavor to get your facts right before you put out your words bc people will know your biases and awkward thinking from your words Lastly, I think you need to take some time to learn further because the word “eat” in that context refers to consuming or enjoy, or to derive satisfaction from that thing called the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But on a broader scale, this doesn’t mean Adam and Eve couldn’t have “used” the that tree for its purposefully. God only commanded them not to consume the tree, he didn’t tell them not to use it. So the problem was not that they used it, they consumed it for satisfaction of desires. For example cocaine and other consciousness altering drugs are very dangerous drugs if “consumed”. Yet they can be “used” as a pain reliever and for treating many human diseases. But if cocaine is “consumed” for for pleasure, that becomes a problem that even the government punishes one for. So the government in this context is God and he punished them for consuming what they could have only used for its purposefully. Ok, I know you’ll deny this so I’ll only let you imagine it. Let’s imagine that the tree of knowledge of good and evil is the penis, that way, Eve can easily be deceived bc she doesn’t have a penis and what lies within her legs is a flower. Therefore, to use the penis is to use it for its primary purpose which is to urinate and if you don’t use it for that, there will be problem. The consumption of the penis will be to have sex, this way it’ll be consume for satisfaction of sexual desires. You can see that the result of these thing things are different. So imagine God telling Adam to use the penis but not to consume it for satisfaction. That’s if you can imagine btw. So I think your idea is rather limited and you need to broaden your scope of thinking. I do have a book titled “look again”, it might help you understand human nature which is the Adam nature and the nature you have which also is the nature that God hates. When you get certain understanding, you’ll not write something so biased like this. |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by Azrael001: 1:09pm On Mar 17, 2023 |
obinna58: |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by Dtruthspeaker: 8:53pm On Mar 17, 2023 |
cezarman: What would you do to your mannequins that left the boutique you kept them in only to find them in the football field? Surely they shall be put in the fire. |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by Dtruthspeaker: 8:58pm On Mar 17, 2023 |
jom28gy: Did you not see that the penalty is "you shall die"? |
Re: The Lies Of The Garden Of Eden - A Logical View by Dtruthspeaker: 9:02pm On Mar 17, 2023 |
Akin1212: Your thinking should have told you that the only thing that they did not know is how to decide if a thing was good or evil. But they obviously knew other things like bad, obedience, love, ideas, names, etc. |
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