earthrealm:


errrrm think, he needs to state his load, and probablly charging pattern/frequency etc. and he said 6months..not 2months....


@kiekie..savage you are!!.. posting your WE BUY DEAD BATTS ADVERTS immediately,..lolz..guess na coincidence,

Two or three ways a battery cell could go bad(shorted cell); 1. Battery is old and shading materials(this settled at d bottom and eventually brigades d cell) 2. Sulphation due to poor charging algorithm, this takes time, not within 6months. 3. Most important one(for his case) manufacturing error(shit happens).

Don't mind kiekie jor! He wants to give the battery funeral asap(inevitable eventually)

Thanks for all comments, I guess the seller might also be seeing it.
The 10.5V is while discharging, used overnight, no power supply, early in the morning the inverter shutdown on low voltage cut off.

earthrealm:


yeah, the batt is likely gone as others have pointed out, errm..am a lil curious. its displays 10.5v when charged or when discharged....or under load?

earthrealm:


errrrm think, he needs to state his load, and probablly charging pattern/frequency etc. and he said 6months..not 2months....


@kiekie..savage you are!!.. posting your WE BUY DEAD BATTS ADVERTS immediately,..lolz..guess na coincidence,

Lol maybe coincidence as said ... Una dey monitor posts like anti spam bots sha ! Happy vote day

Oshomo12:


Two or three ways a battery cell could go bad(shorted cell); 1. Battery is old and shading materials(this settled at d bottom and eventually brigades d cell) 2. Sulphation due to poor charging algorithm, this takes time, not within 6months. 3. Most important one(for his case) manufacturing error(shit happens).

Don't mind kiekie jor! He wants to give the battery funeral asap(inevitable eventually)

Abeg ooo , I dey voting queue for here

Braaad:
Hello good people of this forum, please, I urgently need a link to buy Tesla power wall here in Nigeria.

I've tried some companies including PSC solar, they don't have in stock.

I would really appreciate a link to buy it here or to get it directly from the company abroad.

Any help is highly appreciated.

PS: if there is any other alternative of comparable quality to the power wall, I'd like to know.

Thanks in advance

hi,
are u looking for Tesla bat or "Tesla power wall", Tesla power wall is not a "stand-alone" thus cannot use it in Nigeria, I don't think we run a grid system yet?, so i am guess u looking at Tesla Bat ripped out of Tesla car, if u are interested i can source it for u outside the country,

at the moment i am doing a DIY Tesla type battery....

earthrealm:


errrrm think, he needs to state his load, and probablly charging pattern/frequency etc. and he said 6months..not 2months....


@kiekie..savage you are!!.. posting your WE BUY DEAD BATTS ADVERTS immediately,..lolz..guess na coincidence,

Good point...

before they start crucifying the supplier on warranty issue or blaming the manufacturer, I guess the load on the system should be stated.

as far as I know, deeply discharging a lead-acid battery bank (whether VRLA, AGM, or Gel) usually shows this kind of symptoms; one battery syncing out (I think, usually the most negative battery) and subsequently causing an overall drop in the run hour of the system

so, the question is : what is the load on the system between sunset and the following morning?
and of course, in addition to other probable causes as has been stated.

cheers

3kw array at optimal weather conditions

Hello house,

I'm looking for an inverter installer for a work tomorrow Sunday.

let's talk if you are available.

Update: Thanks, found someone.

Oshomo12:


Two or three ways a battery cell could go bad(shorted cell); 1. Battery is old and shading materials(this settled at d bottom and eventually brigades d cell) 2. Sulphation due to poor charging algorithm, this takes time, not within 6months. 3. Most important one(for his case) manufacturing error(shit happens).

Don't mind kiekie jor! He wants to give the battery funeral asap(inevitable eventually)

Number 1 should be unbalanced battery. When battery is unbalanced, one is overcharging while the other is under charging.

Also, when discharging, the lower battery will have some cells go irredeambly low while the higher battery is compensating it. This is especially true for users who wait till inverter goes off on its on low voltage settings (10.5V). At that point, assuming a 24v system, the good battery may read 11v and the poor one 9v. Battery shouldn't be allowed to go below 9.6v in the least.

totalgreen01:


hi,
are u looking for Tesla bat or "Tesla power wall", Tesla power wall is not a "stand-alone" thus cannot use it in Nigeria, I don't think we run a grid system yet?, so i am guess u looking at Tesla Bat ripped out of Tesla car, if u are interested i can source it for u outside the country,

at the moment i am doing a DIY Tesla type battery....

Was actually looking for Tesla Power Wall...

I understand it can actually be used for normal backup too without connecting to feed the grid (grid tie).

I actually contacted some good people in this forum and they recommended I go with BYD Li-ion batteries and I'm making arrangement for that.

If you rip batteries from EV for DIY, I'd like us to discuss further.

You can post the details here, I'll contact you.

I'm sure many people here too will be interested

Over here at my own corner of the world, we can't see the sun because it's all cloudy but I guess the MorningStar CC can.

1st pic - 3.96Kw Canadian Solar Array around 3pmish
2nd pic - 3.6Kw Flames Array around 3pmish
3rd pic - Weather Outlook

Blasting two ACs on Gen Mode sef as everyone dey house.

makavele:
3kw array at optimal weather conditions

mank1234:


Number 1 should be unbalanced battery. When battery is unbalanced, one is overcharging while the other is under charging.

Also, when discharging, the lower battery will have some cells go irredeambly low while the higher battery is compensating it. This is especially true for users who wait till inverter goes off on its on low voltage settings (10.5V). At that point, assuming a 24v system, the good battery may read 11v and the poor one 9v. Battery shouldn't be allowed to go below 9.6v in the least.

errrm 9.6v?... i no gree o...to keep ur battery healthy.....dont go below 11v, irreparable damage usually occurs when the battery voltage goes below 10.5v.

@oshomo12, you missed cause nos 4: loading/draining a battery beyond its capacity, eg connecting a 1kw load to 2 x 12v 200ah bank, going by the C/10 rule 240w is the max load you shud put on a 12v 200ah battery, so putting >500w load on such a batt for extended periods will surely lead to battery failure,

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Over here at my own corner of the world, we can't see the sun because it's all cloudy but I guess the MorningStar CC can.

1st pic - 3.96Kw Canadian Solar Array around 3pmish
2nd pic - 3.6Kw Flames Array around 3pmish
3rd pic - Weather Outlook

Blasting two ACs on Gen Mode sef as everyone dey house.


edit: could u please share ur data log for the flames array for the last 7 days; wanna crosscheck something

I can see that pound for pound, the Canadian Solar is outperforming the Flames array.
I think I need to do an overhaul now; of my panels.

On the surface, it appears as if the Canadian PV is outperforming the Flames PV. But this is not the case.

If you do a cost-benefit analysis of both arrays using the real cost per watt of energy produced, you will discover that the Flames panels are outperforming the Canadian panels.

A 300w Flames mono PV cost N45k while the Canadian equivalent cost N60k, that is, 33.3% more expensive

Now let us do some simple analysis using the instantaneous harvest data supplied (assuming the orientation and inclination are same).

3960w is canadian panels produced 2690w of instantaneous power ==> 67.93% efficiency

3000w of Flames panels produce 2005w of instantaneous power ==> 55.69% efficiency

So the Canadian panel is more efficient than the Flames panel by about 12.26% but it is also 33.3% more expensive.

To my discerning mind, the Flames PV outperforms the Canadian PV and it gives better value for money than the Canadian PV on this occasion

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Over here at my own corner of the world, we can't see the sun because it's all cloudy but I guess the MorningStar CC can.

1st pic - 3.96Kw Canadian Solar Array around 3pmish
2nd pic - 3.6Kw Flames Array around 3pmish
3rd pic - Weather Outlook

Blasting two ACs on Gen Mode sef as everyone dey house.

dapsyra:
On the surface, it appears as if the Canadian PV is outperforming the Flames PV. But this is not the case.

If you do a cost-benefit analysis of both arrays using the real cost per watt of energy produced, you will discover that the Flames panels are outperforming the Canadian panels.

A 300w Flames mono PV cost N45k while the Canadian equivalent cost N60k, that is, 33.3% more expensive

Now let us do some simple analysis using the instantaneous harvest data supplied (assuming the orientation and inclination are same).

3960w is canadian panels produced 2690w of instantaneous power ==> 67.93% efficiency

3000w of Flames panels produce 2005w of instantaneous power ==> 55.69% efficiency

So the Canadian panel is more efficient than the Flames panel by about 12.26% but it is also 33.3% more expensive.

To my discerning mind, the Flames PV outperforms the Canadian PV and it gives better value for money than the Canadian PV on this occasion

Second pv is 3.6kw

But I'm looking at the total kwh both have approx 3400 KWH

Nice observation Sir.

But I wanted to add some perspective.

The Flames panels were placed in service nearly two years before the Canadian Solar, if I discount all the periods when I used other CCs with my Flames panels, I would adjust the time interval down to 1 year.

I have had the Canadian Solar a little over one year now and it has yielded cummulatively about the same KwH as the Flames have done over 2 years.

The logged data and my anecdotal observations testify that the Canadian Solar always yield on the average ~15% more than the Flames - you can see that the heatsink on the MorningStar CC serving the Canadian Solar is also running 10°C hotter than the CC the Flames array is on indicative of more energy being passed and requiring greater heat dissipation.

Dam5reey:


Second pv is 3.6kw

But I'm looking at the total kwh both have approx 3400 KWH

Here you go Sir.

1st pic is Flames for your use
2nd pic is Canadian Solar just for house comparison.

Some perspective on the numbers - a weekend day like Saturday (today) represents a day when I have people at home and power hungry appliances being run so the yield would be pretty much representative of the PV array's performance - also there was no PHCN at all so we see 16.9kwh yield on Canadian Solar vs 13.7kwh yield on Flames

For both Panels not bad at all considering it was a cloudy day all through.

Friday - Day -1 counting backwards to Monday no one is home plus there was some PHCN available plus I was recovering from a cold so no overnight AC use hence batteries were not depleted and so not much demand on the PV array.

makavele:


I can see that pound for pound, the Canadian Solar is outperforming the Flames array.
I think I need to do an overhaul now; of my panels.


edit: could u please share ur data log for the flames array for the last 7 days; wanna crosscheck something

As I was screen grabbing the logs for Oga Makavele, I realised the CC keeps a day count of how long it has been in service at the very top of the log.

With this we can calculate precisely that the Flames panels have been in service for 223 solar days more than the Canadian Solar yet the Canadian Solar managed to both catchup and overtake slightly in cummulative KwH yield over a shorter service period.

I did not post the pics again so as not to clog the thread but you can please view them just above this post.

Dam5reey:


Second pv is 3.6kw

But I'm looking at the total kwh both have approx 3400 KWH

I agree with the general trend of this analysis, but I would tweak it a bit while keeping prices e.t.c same as you have used.

Price vs. Performance

(60k/45k) - 1= 33% - Canadian Solar is 33% more expensive

(2,690W/2,005W) - 1 = 34% - Canadian Solar gives 34%
more instantaneous power (cloudy day test)

(3.6Kw/3.96Kw) × 2,690W = 2,445W - this is the theoretical linear adjustment for what an equivalent 3.6kw Canadian Solar array would have produced.

Fitting this into the original efficiency calculation

(2,445W/2,005W) - 1 = 22% Canadian Solar's performance adjusted for different array sizes - net 22% more instantaneous power than the Flames.

At this point the Canadian Solar almost nearly wins because you can save money in roof space required, mounting racks and cable runs e.t.c if you go with the Canadian Solar vs Flames.

To now crown it all, I realized from the logs today that my Canadian Solar array has been in service for 1 year and 30 days vs. Flames 1 year and 253 days yet the Canadian Solar put out an impressive 3.4MegaWattHours of cummulative yield vs. 3.3MegaWattHours for the Flames.

Canadian Solar overtook the Flames in cummulative yield while having 223 days less to work with!!! One can even penalize the days to account for different array size by a factor of 3.6/3.96 so 202 days less uptime.

I will go with a Tier 1 panel like Canadian Solar any day based on these results.

I also now understand my Ogas Duwdu & Saipro's comments about preferring higher voltage arrays for early CC wakeup and later sleep - those little differences may just add up to a tidy advantage over time.

dapsyra:
On the surface, it appears as if the Canadian PV is outperforming the Flames PV. But this is not the case.

If you do a cost-benefit analysis of both arrays using the real cost per watt of energy produced, you will discover that the Flames panels are outperforming the Canadian panels.

A 300w Flames mono PV cost N45k while the Canadian equivalent cost N60k, that is, 33.3% more expensive

Now let us do some simple analysis using the instantaneous harvest data supplied (assuming the orientation and inclination are same).

3960w is canadian panels produced 2690w of instantaneous power ==> 67.93% efficiency

3600w of Flames panels produce 2005w of instantaneous power ==> 55.69% efficiency

So the Canadian panel is more efficient than the Flames panel by about 12.26% but it is also 33.3% more expensive.

To my discerning mind, the Flames PV outperforms the Canadian PV and it gives better value for money than the Canadian PV on this occasion

Braaad:


Was actually looking for Tesla Power Wall...

I understand it can actually be used for normal backup too without connecting to feed the grid (grid tie).

I actually contacted some good people in this forum and they recommended I go with BYD Li-ion batteries and I'm making arrangement for that.

If you rip batteries from EV for DIY, I'd like us to discuss further.

You can post the details here, I'll contact you.

I'm sure many people here too will be interested

Mr Chris has some videos on YouTube experimenting with Nissan leave and Chevy volt battery, see the links

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdWL9qj7yFI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcKrXwl4RR4
I have personally installed BYD batteries, you can also get lithium ion phosphate battery cells from China, you will require an external BMS.

makavele:
3kw array at optimal weather conditions

I've been having the same problem lately. My 3kW array gives about 1.9 - 2kW routine as opposed to previous 2.3 - 2.5kW. I did notice two of the strings are about 1A lower each than the third. Values around midday to 1pm routinely read:
- string 1 ~ 5.5A
- string 2 ~ 5.4A
- string 3 ~ 6.5A
... all within VmP of 107 - 120VDC. All strings identical in composition, cabling and positioning.
Thinking of opening the boxes on the PV units.

Makavele, you're not alone, if it's any solace.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I agree with the general trend of this analysis, but I would tweak it a bit while keeping prices e.t.c same as you have used.

....

I also now understand my Ogas Duwdu & Saipro's comments about preferring higher voltage arrays for early CC wakeup and later sleep - those little differences may just add up to a tidy advantage over time.

The real advantage is what you're seeing - reasonable energy harvest in otherwise bad weather.

gud day, pls I have 24v/300w×2, 20a 12v/24v charge controler and 24v 1.5kva ups, the load TV:45w, decoder:25w, radio:100w but not so effective as I expected. but someone told me that the cable I use to connect the panel to charge controller is borehole cable with 4 wire inside which is not copper. but can wire enhance or retard it effectiveness?. thanks

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I agree with the general trend of this analysis, but I would tweak it a bit while keeping prices e.t.c same as you have used.

Price vs. Performance

(60k/45k) - 1= 33% - Canadian Solar is 33% more expensive

(2,690W/2,005W) - 1 = 34% - Canadian Solar gives 34%
more instantaneous power (cloudy day test)

(3.6Kw/3.96Kw) × 2,690W = 2,445W - this is the theoretical linear adjustment for what an equivalent 3.6kw Canadian Solar array would have produced.

Fitting this into the original efficiency calculation

(2,445W/2,005W) - 1 = 22% Canadian Solar's performance adjusted for different array sizes - net 22% more instantaneous power than the Flames.

At this point the Canadian Solar almost nearly wins because you can save money in roof space required, mounting racks and cable runs e.t.c if you go with the Canadian Solar vs Flames.

To now crown it all, I realized from the logs today that my Canadian Solar array has been in service for 1 year and 30 days vs. Flames 1 year and 253 days yet the Canadian Solar put out an impressive 3.4MegaWattHours of cummulative yield vs. 3.3MegaWattHours for the Flames.

Canadian Solar overtook the Flames in cummulative yield while having 223 days less to work with!!! One can even penalize the days to account for different array size by a factor of 3.6/3.96 so 202 days less uptime.

I will go with a Tier 1 panel like Canadian Solar any day based on these results.

I also now understand my Ogas Duwdu & Saipro's comments about preferring higher voltage arrays for early CC wakeup and later sleep - those little differences may just add up to a tidy advantage over time.

Are both arrays facing same direction and at same angle?

Saipro:

I've been having the same problem lately. My 3kW array gives about 1.9 - 2kW routine as opposed to previous 2.3 - 2.5kW. I did notice two of the strings are about 1A lower each than the third. Values around midday to 1pm routinely read:
- string 1 ~ 5.5A
- string 2 ~ 5.4A
- string 3 ~ 6.5A
... all within VmP of 107 - 120VDC. All strings identical in composition, cabling and positioning.
Thinking of opening the boxes on the PV units.

Makavele, you're not alone, if it's any solace.

So much solace; I won't cry though

Yup - they are all right beside each other - side by side on thesame section of roof.

The Flames were even the more neatly arranged of the two arrays - for the Canadian Solar, I mounted a few units from surplus stock and found myself buying more and more as the array performance wowed me

mank1234:


Are both arrays facing same direction and at same angle?

bigrovar:
I have a used 5kva 48v ipowerplus solar inverter for sale. It has been in use for about a year in a server data center. It is been sold due to upgrades. The system is in perfect working order. The ipowerplus is a white labelled axpert inverter mks 5kva.
120kv
08131879510

Is it still available?

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Here it is Sir @ attached pic. That is the 1hp in my bedroom.

1hp costs 130k & 1.5hp costs 135k last I checked

Please be sure to buy from an LG Fouani store and not a random 3rd party vendor - I hear people market some older generation LG ACs as inverter ACs when they are not - they don't behave or save energy like the ones people here have variously described do.

I think these electronics manufacturers have begun making power saving versions of most gadgets.

During one of my hunts for such, I came across a 203 litres haier Thermocool deep freezer that was rated to consume 120 watts. Testing it with a watmeter gives peak current consumption of 203 watts at start up and between 105 watts to 140 watts after start up depending on the ambient temperature and how much it has cooled. One of the stickers on the appliance also boasted 70% power saving the way it is indicated on that inverter AC picture. What's more is that the operating voltage range is between 160 v to 220 v.

My 209 litres Thermocool freezer of 10 years hugs 520 watts start up and fires on at 220 watts.

Just did a software update for the tristar; let's start from the software side of things
before we move to the hardware part, lol

@Niyi
Thanks a lot for the pictures.

Are both arrays charging the same battery bank? If not, then the SOC of the batteries at sunrise will definitely affect the performance of the arrays differently.

Are the charging profile set identical or optimal on both CC?

If those extra 223 days you mentioned were during the months of April to October when solar harvest is at the poorest in Lagos, that must also me factored into the analysis.

Can you please help us conduct a scientific analysis of your arrays. The methodology is very simple:-

1. Set identical/optimal charging profile for both arrays on the CC

2. Let both arrays charge the same battery bank

3. Write down the current lifetime harvest on both CCs at sunset as a reference point

4. Every 7days, write down the current lifetime harvest on both CCs at sunset

5. Subtract the values in #3 above from #4. This will give the exact production over the same time frame.

6. Use the data in #5 for your calculations and analysis.

I believe this technique will produce results that will be objective and fair on both vendors. Your findings will be an invaluable contribution to this forum. Knowing the type of open minded person you are, I will take the liberty of thanking you for taking up the challenge even before you speak.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I agree with the general trend of this analysis, but I would tweak it a bit while keeping prices e.t.c same as you have used.

Price vs. Performance

(60k/45k) - 1= 33% - Canadian Solar is 33% more expensive

(2,690W/2,005W) - 1 = 34% - Canadian Solar gives 34%
more instantaneous power (cloudy day test)

(3.6Kw/3.96Kw) × 2,690W = 2,445W - this is the theoretical linear adjustment for what an equivalent 3.6kw Canadian Solar array would have produced.

Fitting this into the original efficiency calculation

(2,445W/2,005W) - 1 = 22% Canadian Solar's performance adjusted for different array sizes - net 22% more instantaneous power than the Flames.

At this point the Canadian Solar almost nearly wins because you can save money in roof space required, mounting racks and cable runs e.t.c if you go with the Canadian Solar vs Flames.

To now crown it all, I realized from the logs today that my Canadian Solar array has been in service for 1 year and 30 days vs. Flames 1 year and 253 days yet the Canadian Solar put out an impressive 3.4MegaWattHours of cummulative yield vs. 3.3MegaWattHours for the Flames.

Canadian Solar overtook the Flames in cummulative yield while having 223 days less to work with!!! One can even penalize the days to account for different array size by a factor of 3.6/3.96 so 202 days less uptime.

I will go with a Tier 1 panel like Canadian Solar any day based on these results.

I also now understand my Ogas Duwdu & Saipro's comments about preferring higher voltage arrays for early CC wakeup and later sleep - those little differences may just add up to a tidy advantage over time.

Lolz

Oga Dapsyra wants to set me up o.

But I will do the experiment and report back by March ending - would be interesting to see how the matchup works out.

Yes the two arrays are connected to one battery bank with the exact same voltage and charge profiles and even share a voltage sense cable - from time to time the CCs by natural selection swap who is master and who is slave (alternately one drops out of absorb and goes to float before the other)

dapsyra:
Are both arrays charging the same battery bank? If not, then the SOC of the batteries at sunrise will definitely affect the performance of the arrays differently.

Are the charging profile set identical or optimal on both CC?

If those extra 223 days you mentioned were during the months of April to October when solar harvest is at the poorest in Lagos, that must also me factored into the analysis.

Can you please help us conduct a scientific analysis of your arrays. The methodology is very simple:-

1. Set identical/optimal charging profile for both arrays on the CC

2. Let both arrays charge the same battery bank

3. Write down the current lifetime harvest on both CCs at sunset as a reference point

4. Every 7days, write down the current lifetime harvest on both CCs at sunset

5. Subtract the values in #3 above from #4. This will give the exact production over the same time frame.

6. Use the data in #5 for your calculations and analysis.

I believe this technique will produce results that will be objective and fair on both vendors. Your findings will be an invaluable contribution to this forum. Knowing the type of open minded person you are, I will take the liberty of thanking you for taking up the challenge even before you speak.

ojeysky:


I have similar needs anyone with such should reach me as well

I am still open to this, flames, Canadian or Felicity panels are the 3 options that am okay with. So if you have neatly used once for sale do a pm or indicate on this thread and I will contact you.

Regards