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Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 9:02pm On Mar 02, 2019 |
Summary: Righteousness is a gift that you receive when you believe in Jesus Christ as your Savior ( Romans 5:17b ). Upon believing, God gives you a new born again heart, also known as your inner spirit ( Ezekiel 11:19 ). Jesus then comes to live in you and eternally joins His life to your new spirit; this is what makes you righteous. Your mortal body remains as it was before salvation, still dead because of sin ( Romans 8:10 ). Are believers in Jesus Christ righteous people? Like eternal security, this is a controversial issue. By far, the most common teaching is that believers are imputed, or credited, with Christ's righteousness but they remain sinners even after salvation. But, what does the Bible teach? The answer lies in the little taught and largely unknown truth of the inner and outer "man." Forgiveness Happened at the Cross Most people believe that forgiveness and "salvation" are the same thing. They are not. This thinking believes that the Cross of Christ offers the potential for forgiveness, but that you do not realize this forgiveness until after you repent* of your sins and ask Jesus into your heart; when you do, you are then "saved." However, the Bible teaches that forgiveness was granted by God because of the Cross of Christ, not your response to it. Forgiveness was God's gift of grace to all people, not only believers. ( Colossians 1:20 ; Mark 3:28 ; Hebrews 9:26b ; Hebrews 10:12 ). Forgiveness was, therefore, fully and forever resolved for all people 2,000 years ago. 2 Corinthians 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them , and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. So then, what is the difference between believers and unbelievers? The answer is that unbelievers do not have is God's life dwelling in them. And that is the key to understanding whether believers are truly righteous or only credited with Christ's righteousness. *Note: The near-universal teaching of repenting from sins is not New Covenant. You have no capacity to turn from your sins until after you are saved, that is after you get a new heart and after God puts His life into you. This incorrect teaching is based on Old Covenant repentance where the children of Israel were to turn away from their sin; they were never able to do so and that was the reason for the sacrifices and holy days. New Testament repentance is turning from unbelief to faith in Jesus Christ ( Acts 19:4 ; Mark 1:15 ). The Gift of Righteousness When you believe, God literally takes out your old sinful inner spirit and replaces it with a brand new, clean heart ( Ezekiel 36:26 ; Romans 6:6 ). The old inner you is gone forever; you become a brand new person on the inside ( 2 Corinthians 5:17 ). Because your new heart is completely clean, it is a suitable dwelling place for the Spirit of God. Jesus comes to live in you and joins His righteous life eternally to you. Your righteousness is a gift, and the gift is the person of Jesus Christ living in you. You are righteous because the Righteous One now dwells in you, joined inseparably as one to your born again heart ( 1 Corinthians 6:17 ). You have done nothing that makes you righteous; it was God who did it all when you believed in Jesus Christ as Savior. 1 Corinthians 3:16 , 17b Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? [17] ... for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are . Why Your Righteousness is Real, not Credited Your righteousness is real, not credited or "imputed" as is commonly taught; this is an essential point. Popular teaching says that God credits you with Christ's righteousness, but says that you are still a "sinner." This thinking does not recognize your inner and outer persons ( Romans 8:10 ; 2 Corinthians 4:16 ). Your inner spirit is absolutely righteous. In fact, you can never sin in your born again heart because Jesus in you can never sin ( 1 John 3:9 ). Your inner spirit is the real "you"; your outer mortal body is your temporary "house" ( 2 Corinthians 5:2 , 4). Your body will not enter the kingdom of God because it has not been redeemed and made righteous ( 1 Corinthians 15:50 ). To help understand this, consider what will happen when you die. Your body will go to the grave while your inner spirit remains forever joined to Jesus Christ. When Christ returns, you will get a new gloried body that will be compatible with your already redeemed and righteous new spirit ( 1 Corinthians 15:52 , 53). Walking by the Spirit Since your body is still dead because of sin, you cannot live a righteous life by your own human works; this is the reason you live by faith . Jesus will live out His righteous life in you and do His good works through you. You experience His life as you follow Him in faith. Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me ; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God , who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me. Not only will Christ live through you, walking in His Spirit will keep you from indulging in fleshly behavior. Galatians 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:50pm On Mar 02, 2019 |
solite3: Are you saying that all that have been made righteous by faith can no longer be made unrighteous whatever sin they indulge themself in afterwards? ![]() |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 4:28am On Mar 03, 2019 |
OLAADEGBU:Was going to ask the same question. It kind of contradicts the Lord Lordists who would gnash their teeth. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by MuttleyLaff: 10:48pm On Mar 03, 2019 |
solite3:Completely concur with this and without any demur solite3:There is nothing controversial here especially when righteous means to achieve legitimate, justifiable and acceptable by and in God's eyes ends. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. It means we are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. God had Christ, who was sinless, take our sin so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. Before, it used to be an individual award or allocation given on merit, like Job when said to be a righteous man and by de facto, in Job 1:3, said to be greatest of all the sons from the East, as in, he was greater than any of the sons of the east. Noah was regarded to be righteous because he was the only person blameless in his generation, as he was the only one in his generation who did the right thing of not marrying any of the daughters of men, then another is like, when Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. solite3:They dont remain sinners, but they are at any stage or moment, liable to sin If we look at this this way, just because I cook, doesnt necessarily mean I am a chef. Just because I correct, doesnt necessarily mean I am a teacher. Just because I paint or draw, doesnt necessarily mean I am a gifted artist, same way it is with your son or daughter being a good child, who occassionaly does not all the times, round the clock, everytime do good thing, so is with believers too, there are no more seen as sinners, but as person who when they do next sin, are guaranteed forgiveness if contrite solite3:"4When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. 5But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners. 6David also spoke of this when he described the happiness of those who are declared righteous without working for it:" - Romans 4:4-6 Though we are 110% forgiven, but because we are still in this fallen, depraved and carnal human body suit, the likelihood of sinning still exists, and this is why the bible in Hebrews 4:16, encourages and even urges us to come with boldness to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and may find grace for help in time of need like any of those trying times solite3:If anyone does what Jesus commands, such person will be saved solite3:I think you have conflated the soul with the spirit in here. Since flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, one needs, then to be born of water and the Spirit, after which the soul then will be rehoused in a glorified body to enter the Kingdom. OLAADEGBU:God is a God who gives many chances, and not a God who gives a mere second chance 1 Like |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 8:57am On Mar 13, 2019 |
OLAADEGBU:A believer doesn't lose his righteousness because he commit sin that is why it is called everlasting righgeousness |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 2:29pm On Mar 13, 2019 |
solite3:So a believer can go and commit any sin and still keep their righteousness? I did not get the memo where righteousness stopped being the quality of being morally right and it don't matter what you do, once righteous, forever righteous! |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 2:40pm On Mar 13, 2019 |
budaatum:everlasting righteousness is a gift base on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross. Moral righteousness is filthy rag before God. Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. 1 Like |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 3:24pm On Mar 13, 2019 |
solite3:So, you should not bother about moral righteousness because it's a filthy rag before God, and "everlasting righteousness is gift based on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross"? I wonder why moral righteousness is a requirement to dwell in the tabernacle of the Lord then. Are these fruit of the Spirit which is "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control" not moral righteousness? Do they just fall on your head because Jesus was sacrificed on a cross? |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 3:51pm On Mar 13, 2019 |
budaatum:psalm 15 talks about 100% perfection which no moral righteousness can ever attain. these fruit of the Spirit which is "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control" not moral righteousness? Do they just fall on your head because Jesus was sacrificed on a cross?it is called The fruit of the Spirit in other words the products of the Spirit of Jesus in a regenerated man. In other words the fruit of the Spirit is the result of the true Righteousness (Jesus Christ) dwelling in that man. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 3:54pm On Mar 13, 2019 |
budaatum:Only the blood of Jesus can Justify a man ( grant him unconditional forgiveness and declare righteous) before God. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 10:32pm On Mar 13, 2019 |
worthy is your name |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by theoriginalgood: 3:53am On Mar 14, 2019 |
Serious question deserves serious answer. Why does God the perfect righteous, not live among men? Why is there a disconnection between humanity and God? Humans and Good are very different. God has been alive since the beginning of existence, orchestrating the whole show. Which human has escaped death? Which human has perfect memory to recall generations past? Humans are proven imperfect and thus not good. Only good is perfect. A being that is imperfect can never be righteous. No matter what faith that individual practices. Human is human. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 7:10pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
solite3:This is meaningless to me. Could you enlighten me on what you mean by "the blood of Jesus" please? Does righteousness not mean "the quality of being morally correct and justifiable" as depicted in [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+5%3A22&version=YLT]Galatians 5:22[/url] and Psalm 15? |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 7:12pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
solite3:So, you try, right, and don't just give up because you only score low! Practice will afterall bring one close, no? |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 7:22pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
budaatum:lets hear what Jesus himself said John 3:1-12 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? you will not understand spiritual things except you have experience spiritual birth. christianity is spiritual, human cognition can not comprehend it. because you are flesh the things of the Spirit will not make sense to you. 1 Like |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 7:24pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
budaatum:open your heart to Jesus. Believe on him for the redemption of your soul. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 7:32pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
solite3:You are of the assumption that I am incapable of understanding spiritual things it seems, and want to claim you do. Yet all you do is sprout words that you seem incapable of explaining! Did Nicodemus not show that he too had no understanding of the meaning of what Jesus told him when he asked "How can these things be?" I bet even you do not understand what is meant by "become as a child" and, to "be born of water and of the Spirit", but I'm not asking you to explain that, yet. I repeat, what exactly is meant by "the blood of Jesus"? Or do you just not know? |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 7:37pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
budaatum:Righteousness on a human level mean moral uprightness but on a divine level it means right standing with, the reflection of the nature of God. sometimes what humans consider to be right is far from be right with God. Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. the way God thinks is far removed from the way man thinks. Consider how the heavens are much higher than the earth so are God's ways than mans ways. Man can only forsake his way not try to change or modify but totally abandon his ways and accept God's way. What is God's way? 1 Corinthians 1:18-29 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. God has chosen the foolishness of the gospel of the cross of Jesus to save the world. To many the gospel looks foolish but is it? it looks foolishness because it does not give man the privilege of boasting in his own righteousness or works but on the saviour Jesus Christ alone. 1 Like |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 7:42pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
budaatum:the blood of Jesus is the price for the redemption of man. Righteousness is a gift that comes by faith in Jesus. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 7:43pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
budaatum:it is not a head knowledge, spiritual birth is an experience. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 7:46pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
solite3:I have listed what is said to be right in God's opinion, it is the requirement for dwelling in his tabernacle. And "Christ crucified", is no different to the "blood of Christ", which you still have not managed to explain! Do you know what it means or not? |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 7:48pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
solite3:And what exactly is that experience? How is it experienced, or have you not experienced it so do not exactly know? |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 7:49pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
solite3:In what way is it a price? How does the blood of Jesus redeem man? |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 10:41pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
Please consider this thread by jesusjnr, and also MrPresident1's thread of a similar nature. One can believe as much as one wishes to believe but if ones fruits are rotten, one is no better than the teeth gnashing believing [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A25-37&version=NIV]priest and Levite[/url]. “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”, Jesus asked. You hopefully know that Samaritans worshipped other Gods. And there's another parable about the Pharisee who thought he was better than the tax collector. Both parables were specifically "To some who were confident of their own righteousness and [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+18%3A9-14&version=NIV]looked down on everyone else[/url]". The blood of Jesus is the ink the Way to be righteous is written in. If Jesus' blood were not shed for you you'd have nothing to teach you how. Righteousness is the fruits you produce by having been washed in that blood, as in, read it, understood it, and act it, and we clearly know what they are. If one does not at least try to be righteous, one has clearly failed in being righteous. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 10:42pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
budaatum: the conditions cannot be meant by any man Psalms 15:1-5 LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart. He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour. In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the LORD. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not. He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved. Do you know what it means to walk sprightly and righteously? it means you must keep the whole law without breaking any one all the days of your life. if you are not perfection both in thought and in action forget it you are guilty before God. all these ones are for you to be able to just stand before God see psalm 24 also Psalms 24:3-5 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully. He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation. psalm 24 is saying before you can be granted access to the habitation of God and God declare you righteous. 1.you must have a clean hands that means you must have not committed any single sin in your life time. 2. pure heart meaning your must not have harboured any evil, grudge, unforgiveness throughout your life time 3.not life up your soul to vanity- you must not have idolized anything, concept or persons throught your life time. 4. sworn deceitfully meaning you must not have told lies at any point of your life whether small or big. your tongue must be free from idle words. Remember that if you fail one of these you have failed totally. James 2:10-11 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. there is a curse upon any one that fails fulfill all the laws. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 10:49pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
budaatum: John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. this experience does not come by human will or initiative but by God. it comes to those who receive Jesus as their saviour from sins and only way to eternal life. Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. if you believe that Jesus died for your sins and raised from the dead by God, you will be saved. Also you make confession of the fact the you have been saved through Jesus Christ alone. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 10:55pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
budaatum:the punishment for our sins is a debt we must all pay because all have sin. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. in the old testament the blood of Animals was used as a temporary atonement for sins committed but the blood of animals cannot give a permanent atonement for sin only a perfect blood can atone for sin which was provided by the Son of God Jesus. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 11:03pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
budaatum:not so The blood of Jesus is not an ink to the way to be righteous. the blood of Jesus literally take away sins. Without blood there is no remission of sins. @ bold in christianity we don't try to be righteous we are already righteous through the blood of Jesus. Righteousness is not a fruit we produce rather righteousness is the product of the Spirit of Jesus christ our saviour in us. in christianity we don't have our own righteousness. 1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: I have already established that human righteousness is thrash before God. Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 11:03pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
solite3: You are very welcome to completely disregard the teachings that say believing alone is not sufficient. I'm sure though that you know many believers who if seen in heaven would be a surprise. The armed robber who prays to God that this stealing they are about to do be fruitful, springs to mind. The fact that they pray shows they believe. Not succumbing to the will of the flesh, implies, and is in fact, followed by "succumb to the will of God", which Jesus stated as "Do my will", and not, "just believe" as satan even does, and which the Levite and the priest also did. Or does that parable not clearly show who shall enter paradise? |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 11:12pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
budaatum:yes we obey Jesus but it is his blood shed for us that saved us not our doing. even for us to do the will of God, it is God that does it . Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. so you can see that it is God that saves not our works. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 11:18pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
budaatum:Salvation is faith alone minus work. I have shown you enough. Although we do works but the works are evidence of the fact that we are saved rather than be the reason. All believers will be in heaven Jesus has promised that already. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 11:37pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
solite3:Not a lot of people like James' "show me you faith and I will show you my work done with faith", many would rather be Paul's "faith with no works". Would God have use for unsalty salt, or a lamp without NEPA? Should your light not shine before others, that they may see your [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A13-16&version=NIV]good deeds[/url] and glorify your Father in heaven? Or is it not by you works, your deeds, that your father in heaven is glorified? God must have standards and can't, or at least, doesn't, arbitrarily save people with no criteria being fulfilled. In order to receive that so called grace, you must at least fulfil the criteria which is doing the will of God and which is way more than mere believing. And yes, by grace. The grace that you happen to be opportuned to have heard God's word and know what is required of you. I just don't understand how you could think believing is sufficient since it is clearly written that "even the devil believes"! If one doesn't do God's will despite the grace of having heard the Word, all ones believing will not save you, or you'd be as saved as the devil is saved, which last time I checked was not much saved at all. |
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