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Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 11:59pm On Mar 18, 2019 |
budaatum:meanwhile the bible clearly states that salvation is by faith alone with no human input whatsoever but true faith is seen by men by its work. James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and[b] I will shew thee my faith by works[/b] the relationship between faith and work is revealed by James. works is the evidence of faith. he will prove his faith through his works. the bone of contention is between a dead faith and a living faith. A dead faith has no work but a living faith has work. it is this living faith that is the saving faith but people mistook it to be faith plus work, which is not true. it is faith alone in christ alone that saves but it must be the right faith. God must have standards and can't, or at least, doesn't, arbitrarily save people with no criteria being fulfilled. In order to receive that so called grace, you must at least fulfil the criteria which is doing the will of God and which is way more than mere believing. And yes, by grace. The grace that you happen to be opportuned to have heard God's word and know what is required of you.we obey God because we love him and we are his children who bear his nature. we obey God out of love not to meet up demands. the devils believes there is God but do not believe in him. there is difference between believing something or someone exist and trust in that person. we believers we do not just believe there is God, we trust in him and accept his gift of eternal life. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 12:19am On Mar 19, 2019 |
20 [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2%3A20-26&version=NIV]You foolish person[/url], do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. It can't be put much clearer! |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 7:43am On Mar 19, 2019 |
budaatum:Go and read through again my post about faith and works. James said Abraham sacrificed isaac, Did Abraham actually sacrifice isaac? James wrote I will show you my faith by my works. this verse is about the evidence of faith, the works of faith so to speak justifies his faith before fellow humans. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 2:31pm On Mar 19, 2019 |
Are believers righteous? Is the question you asked. Perhaps after all we've said, you can give me a simple answer. Yes or no, will do, if you can. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 3:49pm On Mar 19, 2019 |
budaatum:read the OP again |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 4:19pm On Mar 19, 2019 |
solite3:Not only have I read your op three times, but I've also been to it's source and read it twice, and if you'd credited that source from the beginning, I perhaps would have understood why you have not been capable of defending what you posted! Anyway, and with no further ado, here is someones opinion on the subject. Hopefully, it is of one who's opinion you find favour in. [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+6%3A46-49&version=NKJV]46[/url] “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? 47 Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock. 49 But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great.” May the grace of the Lord be ours. And thanks tons for your time. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 9:36pm On Mar 19, 2019 |
budaatum:how does the verse you quoted. contradict ops. you just toss up scriptures without comprehending what is in there in. I have answered your question. I told you that being bornagain is an experience not a head knowledge. I advice you, Go down on your knees and tell God to reveal the truth to you. the fact is you are lost but still holding to your filthy morality which has already been decimated by psalm 15 and 24. tell God to reveal Jesus to you. have a nice day. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 3:03pm On Mar 21, 2019 |
solite3: [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+18%3A9-14&version=NIV]14[/url] “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 6:56pm On Mar 21, 2019 |
budaatum: ![]() Luke 18:11-14 [center]The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. [/center] Good works didnt justify the pharisee . The other sinner whose works where bad was justified before God because he recognized his need of salvation and reach out to God for mercy. The question is, do you recognize you are a sinner who need God's mercy? |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 8:36pm On Mar 21, 2019 |
solite3:So, according to you, it is not his work that got him to the point of "recognising his need of salvation and reach out to God for mercy"? Was he just walking along the road and recognised, solite3, or did he not first work so he can see? solite3:Actually, I am not a sinner, solite3, though by God's mercy do I resist. When you too work hard at resisting sin you will not be a sinner no more I tell you. But you must work really hard since it's not just going to drop on your head. I mean, think about it, God sacrifices Jesus for your sorry ass then you want God to give you more Grace than that for free? I guess God is so merciful and could do so. But it wouldn't hurt if you attempt to be the salt of the earth while you await God's Grace. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 8:31am On Mar 22, 2019 |
budaatuumnope the law of God made him understand that he was a sinner. 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Actually, I am not a sinner, solite3, though by God's mercy do I resist. When you too work hard at resisting sin you will not be a sinner no more I tell you. But you must work really hard since it's not just going to drop on your head. I mean, think about it, God sacrifices Jesus for your sorry ass then you want God to give you more Grace than that for free? I guess God is so merciful and could do so. But it wouldn't hurt if you attempt to be the salt of the earth while you await God's Grace.@bold really? That means you have never sinned for once in your life. You are already a sinner by nature. If you were not a sinner you will not be resisting sin. Your resisting sin and trying to do good works is already point ing out the fact that you are a sinner. Just like a thief resisting the urge of stealing. It would only serve to prove that he is really a thief, for if he was not a theif he wouldn't have an urge to steal in the first place. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. If you don't need God's mercy fine you will bear your sin. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 11:07am On Mar 22, 2019 |
solite3:No. It means Jesus washed my old sins away when I repented and stopped sinning anymore and now I work hard to stay clean by not sinning anymore. By the Grace of God of course. I do still sin since I am not perfect. But everyday I diligently work to remove the sinning from me. I mean, why should I be sinning when the Lord God is my God? Is sin not the worship of notgod? |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 11:56am On Mar 22, 2019 |
solite3:So, if the thief stops thieving he's still a thief? Well, not according to the Lord God Jesus the Merciful Messiah who forgives if he goes and sins no more, unless you want to continue to condemn the forgiven? There's a hymn that goes: Amazing Grace, How sweet the sound That saved a wretch like me I once was lost, but now am found T'was blind but now I see Wretched is you when you don't know you are sinning. You are not wretched anymore once you stop your sinning, for to be saved you must recognise your sin and repent, as in consciously affirm to sin no more by resisting temptation once you are saved. It is then you sing this hymn in recognition that for the Grace of God you would have still been wretched. Still you might fail at resisting temptation and be saved again by more Grace. You will resist temptation harder and you will fail and be saved again by Grace, but still will you continue to resist harder least you fail - the evildevil, I assure you, rests not! You will work harder until you fail no more and then perhaps you will be righteous by Grace. But on the day you think you are righteous and stop working hard to resist temptation, you will fail! Then you will understand how very much harder you have to work harder to resist the temptation of assuming you are righteousness which itself is sin from which you need to be saved. And this will continue till the day you live eternally without sin. Then does one dwell in the Tabernacle of the Grace of the Lord that the Lord created for the righteous by the Lord's most Merciful Grace and yet, you are still not worthy of righteousness but for the Lord God's Grace! We all need it, see, God's Grace. And God is most merciful and unselfish with God's Grace. But to all those who work, more will be given, and they will have an abundance of Grace; but from those who have done no work, even what Grace they have will be taken away and the worthless lazy slave will be thrown into the outer darkness [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A14-30&version=NRSV]where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’[/url] I know you said I misquote scripture, but if you work hard you will get it. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 4:01pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
budaatum:this is a contradiction you said " I am not a sinner" but again you claim you stopped sinning and yet again you claim you sin once in a while. how about ' I no longer smoke but I smoke once in a while' you mention the grace of God. Do you know what grace mean in the gospel? what a contradiction in one post! Jesus wash away your sins? when budaa claim he is righteous? Do you know that by your works you are below zero before God. James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. According to the righteous law of God you are guilty of the whole law just like the people who commit hideous crimes. I do still sin since I am not perfect. But everyday I diligently work to remove the sinning from me. I mean, why should I be sinning when the Lord God is my God? Is sin not the worship of notgod?you are not perfect? what makes you imperfect? Sin! Also remember that without blood your sins cannot be remitted. Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. it is either you are saved only by faith in Jesus Christ alone without works or you aren't saved. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Can you an imperfect man withstand a righteous God's judgement? I bet you all good works are filthy rags before The Holy God. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Shepherd00: 4:14pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
budaatum:Pls can I go ahead now and celebrate your return to Christ? Becos I know you are not new in this. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Shepherd00: 7:11pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
solite3:So, I can go back to fornication, lying to have my way. Controlling and manipulating people, living in malice and unforgiveness. Pride and greed, stealing and wishing people harm, and still retain my righteousness? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Shepherd00: 7:15pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
solite3:This Isaiah you quoted here is misplaced. This is before we met Christ. If he gives you his righteousness and you take it and go back to your normal sinful ways, retain it abi? You mean if you turn your face away from the gift of righteousness, you can still keep it? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by bloodofthelamb(m): 7:26pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
Shepherd00: Those born of God cannot continue in all this things you listed. Besides, the scripture says we are dead to all this things through Christ. The key to us reigning over sin is we being fully conscious and aware that we are dead to it in Christ Jesus. Those who engage in all this things have forgotten who they are now in Christ. Is as simple as that. 2 Likes |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Shepherd00: 7:28pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
theoriginalgood:And these are considered very serious questions? lolzzzzz 1. God lived on earth for 33+yrs. 2. The disconnect is as result of sin. Death separates from the living. Sin brings death and God is Life itself. 3.Humanity and good are different becos evil has taken over humanity hence, good departed. theoriginalgood:Which death? Physical death or Spiritual death? theoriginalgood:lolzzzzz. Jehovah created humans and He says what He wants and whatever He.says something is, then that is what that something is. If He is says, if you come to Him, He will make you righteous, then that is what He will do. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Shepherd00: 7:32pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
bloodofthelamb:Brother, at what point in our lives as Born Again believers do we attain this? Becos a born again Child of.God is like a natural new born baby, peeing, popping and vomiting on himself. Are you saying a baby can be born and grow up to full adult age at once? Are you saying no one can turn away from following Jesus? Becos in the Bible it happened 1 Like |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by bloodofthelamb(m): 7:41pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
Shepherd00: Righteousness is not what we do, but who we are in Christ. What we do is the result of who we are. The acts of righteousness! We righteous creature in Christ Jesus. 1 Like |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Shepherd00: 7:47pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
bloodofthelamb:Yes, I agree, it is given to us. The bone of contention here is, after receiving that gift of righteousness but we go back to our former ways with the confidence that after all we can not loose it, can we retain it indeed? Remember Judasiskariot? He shared in the Table of the Lord, he received the same Holy Spirit to heal the sick and cast out demons when the Lord sent them out on the mission field, but did he retain his Grace When he turned away? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by bloodofthelamb(m): 7:55pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
Shepherd00: Growing spiritually requires knowledge. The more you come to terms with who you are now in Christ, the more mature you will be. Do you mean the saved can be unsaved? 1 Like |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Shepherd00: 8:04pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
bloodofthelamb:Did Judas loose his salvation? Or you think he wasn't saved? |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by bloodofthelamb(m): 8:11pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
Shepherd00: Though an eagle can live like a chicken due to wrong association and lost of identity, but that doesn't automatically make the eagle a chicken. All the eagle needs to soar again is the knowledge of it identity. Though we the righteousness of God in God can sometimes walk in sin but that does not mean we will remain in it. Righteousness is our DNA in Christ. In truth we don't have former ways in Christ. Remember, "if anyone be in Christ he is a righteous new creation." 1 Like |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by bloodofthelamb(m): 8:14pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
Shepherd00: Though an eagle can live like a chicken due to wrong association and lost of identity, but that doesn't automatically make the eagle a chicken. All the eagle needs to soar again is the knowledge of it identity. Though we the righteousness of God in God can sometimes walk in sin but that does not mean we will remain in it. Righteousness is our DNA in Christ. In truth we don't have former ways in Christ. Remember, "if anyone be in Christ he is a righteous new creation." Judas never had the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. The Spirit came officially upon men at Pentecost when Christ has been glorified. 1 Like |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Shepherd00: 8:28pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
bloodofthelamb:You are evading the point. Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. You means Judas was not amongst these disciples or you don't believe that the power they received was the Holy Spirit? |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Shepherd00: 8:31pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
bloodofthelamb:You didn't answer my question. Anyone who decides to.remain in sin retains the righteousness of God anyways? Or, are you saying if someone receives Christ he becomes a prisoner and loses is free will to continue the walk or discontinue? |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Nobody: 8:41pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
Shepherd00:when one is bornagain the sin nature automatically dies off. A saved man can not continue to live like that because he his born of God. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by budaatum: 8:43pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
Shepherd00:Hold on a minute. Don't be hasty. You must diligently check! What do you mean by, "not new in this"? Explain. |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Shepherd00: 8:47pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
budaatum:I don't believe you a new born baby in Christ. I have long silently followed you, and I followed your discussions with Mudleylaf, (am not sure I got that right). Your grasp of the Word is not like someone who recently got exposed to the things of Christ. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Are Believers Righteous? by Shepherd00: 8:54pm On Mar 22, 2019 |
solite3:But, I still have sexual urges, even when I have been saved for more than 10yrs. I still fight lust. Anger and arrogance still plague me. Even as a Christian I had to masturbate sometime long after I had been born again. Tho, I have victory over it now, but it was not automatic as you said. Don't tell me the desire to lie, cheat, malice, hold a grudge just dissipated immediately you became born again. That is a big lie and misleading to those who just got saved. It's a big fight with the flesh to put it down. a daily battle. No battle is as hard as the battle against flesh. Many fall back and don't get up as a result. Pls don't lie here and say you got born again and you stopped Sining at once. This battle goes on till you die. |
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