Shepherd00:

Do you keep the Ten Commandments?

yes of cause but I m not justified by that.

budaatum:
solite3, you cannot possibly believe this!
Not if you understand the following:

any problem with that?

solite3:
yes of cause but I m not justified by that.

Why do you keep the Ten Commandments?

Shepherd00:

Why do you keep the Ten Commandments?

Because I am God's righteousness. I walk in the law of the Spirit.

solite3:
Because I am God's righteousness. I walk in the law of the Spirit.

Pls explain what this scripture means.

Romans 2:13
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Shepherd00:

Pls explain what this scripture means.

Romans 2:13
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Bro, you are taking scriptures out of context. If you read it in it proper context you will see where Paul is coming from.

solite3:
yes of cause but I m not justified by that.

The law is fulfilled in this, "thou shall love your neighbor as yourself."

He that loves fulfills the law. Thanks be to God, we are able to walk in love because he first love us.

bloodofthelamb:


The law is fulfilled in this, "thou shall love your neighbor as yourself."

He that loves fulfills the law. Thanks be to God, we are able to walk in love because he first love us.

thank you bro. the whole law is fulfilled. what they don't know is that when we walk in love we already fulfill the law.

Shepherd00:

Pls explain what this scripture means.

Romans 2:13
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

you took that verse out of context. that chapter is written about people who depend on the law to be justified.

solite3:
you took that verse out of context. that chapter is written about people who depend on the law to be justified.

Lolzzzzz.

Let's see more of it then.
Romans 2:10-17
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Mark the Worketh good in this verse.

For there is no respect of persons with God.
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
It doesn't matter who does what God commands, Jews or Gentles.

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Then it comes to my point. For even if it's the Gentles who keeps to the law, if they do what it says, they are justified.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Have you seen what this verse says. It's about doing what is written to stand right with God.

Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Which shows the WORKS OF THE LAW? wow. I most have written that by myself.

[bIn the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
[/b]

The day the Lord Jesus shall judge the Earth, it is those who did what he commanded that will stand Justified.

bloodofthelamb:


Bro, you are taking scriptures out of context. If you read it in it proper context you will see where Paul is coming from.

Where is he coming from? Maybe you are the one taking it out of context.


That text is about who does the law Jews or Gentles.


Pls read from verse 10 or even from verse 1 right down you wld see that you are wrong.

Shepherd00:

Lolzzzzz.

Let's see more of it then.
Romans 2:10-17
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Mark the Worketh good in this verse.

[b]For there is no respect of persons with God.
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
It doesn't matter who does what God commands, Jews or Gentles.

[b](For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Then it comes to my point. For even if it's the Gentles who keeps to the law, if they do what it says, they are justified.

[b]For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Have you seen what this verse says. [b]It's about doing what is written to stand right with God.

[b]Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Which shows the WORKS OF THE LAW? wow. I most have written that by myself.

[bIn the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


The day the Lord Jesus shall judge the Earth, it is those who did what he commanded that will stand Justified.

in the old testament the faith of the saints was clearly seen in their works but they were not saved by works but through believing in God for their justification.
It has been made clear that no flesh shall be justified by deeds.


Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


Roman's chapter 2, is talking about the evidence of those who are saved


@bold, doing what is written to stand right with God. That means the death of Christ on your behalf was a waste.

Shepherd00:

Where is he coming from? Maybe you are the one taking it out of context.


That text is about who does the law Jews or Gentles.


Pls read from verse 10 or even from verse 1 right down you wld see that you are wrong.

The primary theme of Paul's letter to believers in Rome is "how God has made us righteous by faith in Christ." But Paul started his letter explaining our sinfulness and how we have falling short of God's glorious standard. Both Jews and gentiles have all come short of the glory of the Lord.

He also explained the place of the law and it purpose in this same letter. One must be careful and see where the writers of this letters are coming from before you fall into error of believing.

When you take a particular phrase out of context, you make the letter say what it doesn't say.

bloodofthelamb:


The primary theme of Paul's letter to believers in Rome is "how God has made us righteous by faith in Christ." But Paul started his letter explaining our sinfulness and how we have falling short of God's glorious standard. Both Jews and gentiles have all come short of the glory of the Lord.

He also explained the place of the law and it purpose in this same letter. One must be careful and see where the writers of this letters are coming from before you fall into error of believing.

When you take a particular phrase out of context, you make the letter say what it doesn't say.

Hello, can you address that text? don't leave it to talk about general terms.

Shepherd00:

Pls explain what this scripture means.

Romans 2:13
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Apostle Paul is explaining to them and by extension us that it is the hearers are justified before God but the doers. But none of us can successfully keep and do the laws, not even the Jews can boast of fully keeping and doing it, or can you?

The law demands absolute and total obedience. There is no "God knows I have tried." The law does not tolerate partial obedience from anybody, you must follow it and do it to the letter

Here is the deal, man could have been justified if he was able to hear and do the law to the last one. But man could not and cannot, that is why God in his mercy presented another way to justify man which Paul stated clearly in his epistle.

Justification is by faith in Christ Jesus only.

bloodofthelamb:


Apostle Paul is explaining to them and by extension us that it is the hearers are justified before God but the doers. But none of us can successfully keep and do the laws, not even the Jews can boast of fully keeping and doing it, or can you?

The law demands absolute and total obedience. There is no "God knows I have tried." The law does not tolerate partial obedience from anybody, you must follow it and do it to the letter

Here is the deal, man could have been justified if he was able to hear and do the law to the last one. But man could not and cannot, that is why God in his mercy presented another way to justify man which Paul stated clearly in his epistle.

Justification is by faith in Christ Jesus only.

Yet Jesus worked his as.s off and said if you hear him and did nothing with what you heard, like the man who got one talent and buried it, you shall be cast out.

You sir, are the man with one talent.

budaatum:
Re: Rapture: No One Is Flying Or Disappearing To Anywhere

So Jesus lied by saying He goes to prepare a place and will come back to get us so that where He will be we shall also be?

And Apstle Paul also lied by saying we shall be caught up and the dead shall be raised?

Shepherd00:

So Jesus lied by saying He goes to prepare a place and will come back to get us so that where He will be we shall also be?

And Apstle Paul also lied by saying we shall be caught up and the dead shall be raised?

I doubt that's what's being said. Consider every word.

Shepherd00:

Yet Jesus worked his as.s off and said if you hear him and did nothing with what you heard, like the man who got one talent and buried it, you shall be cast out.

You sir, are the man with one talent.

Okay

Solite3, this is an example of a 'believer' who is 'righteous', and by his works.

My position is that the righteous do not claim righteousness because righteousness is like an honour that only God bestows on one and bestowing it on oneself is very unrighteous indeed. It's called hubris, and it leads to nemesis, and it is the lesson clearly taught in the [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+18%3A9-14&version=KJV]Parable of the tax collector[/url].

bloodofthelamb:


Apostle Paul is explaining to them and by extension us that it is the hearers are justified before God but the doers.

I watched a program yesterday that claimed William Tyndale, in translating the Bible into English, added "by faith alone", to oppose papal doctrine regarding works (buying indulgences, praying so many times a day and worship of the saints). Martin Luther is claimed to have done the same in German.

To claim justification by hearing is just so lazy and unbelievable. Even you would hesitate justifying quite a few people whom you sit in church with and who hear with you. Except I hope you are better than that and would rather concern yourself with your own forest in your own eyes.

budaatum:

I watched a program yesterday that claimed William Tyndale, in translating the Bible into English, added "by faith alone", to oppose papal doctrine regarding works (buying indulgences, praying so many times a day and worship of the saints). Martin Luther is claimed to have done the same in German.

To claim justification by hearing is just so lazy and unbelievable. Even you would hesitate justifying quite a few people whom you sit in church with and who hear with you. Except I hope you are better than that and would rather concern yourself with your own forest in your own eyes.

The word BELIEVER means something totally different to SPIRITS unlike we humans that could be easily deceived by words of mouth!
When you say 'BELIEVE' God only pick two things:
How strongly entrenched are the teachings of Christ in your mind[heart] and how efficient you're in convincing others with WORDS about what you're sure of! Romans 10:10
Faith is the ASSURED expectation of what is hoped for,the evident demonstration of realities though not seen! Hebrew11:1
God and angels are not deceived by what we say we believe because our actions is what they're watching to quantify each person. So a masquerader or native priest could be noticed by the angels as a faithful person,he becomes hopeless after the angels have directed TRUE Christians to discuss with him in order to gain the knowledge of God. Proverbs 2:1-5
So his salvation hangs on his REACTION towards God's messengers NOT what he is doing presently!
If the presentation of the messengers are efficient enough with 'mildness and deep respect'[1Peter 3:15] yet he treated them badly,then he is on his own.
But if he has a rethink and changes his attitude towards them the next time,then he could be considered. That is why Zephaniah said people living in this last days only need to seek righteousness and meekness,adding that PROBABLY they may be saved! Zephaniah 2:2,3
So the angels are watching our actions [both those who are claiming believers,preacher and those who listens including those ignoring] not what we're saying,even we humans created in God's image knew very well that ACTION speaks louder than mere words!

Maximus69:
The word BELIEVER means something totally different to SPIRITS unlike we humans that could be easily deceived by words of mouth!
When you say 'BELIEVE' God only pick two things:
How strongly entrenched are the teachings of Christ in your mind[heart] and how efficient you're in convincing others with WORDS about what you're sure of! Romans 10:10

I hope by "entrenched" you mean more than mere believing but what I do with the Word in my mind.

Maximus69:
God and angels are not deceived by what we say we believe because our actions is what they're watching to quantify each person.

So his salvation hangs on his REACTION towards God's messengers NOT what he is doing presently!
If the presentation of the messengers are efficient enough with 'mildness and deep respect'[1Peter 3:15] yet he treated them badly,then he is on his own.
But if he has a rethink and changes his attitude towards them the next time,then he could be considered. That is why Zephaniah said people living in this last days only need to seek righteousness and meekness,adding that PROBABLY they may be saved! Zephaniah 2:2,3
So the angels are watching our actions [both those who are claiming believers,preacher and those who listens including those ignoring] not what we're saying,even we humans created in God's image knew very well that ACTION speaks louder than mere words!

There you go. By what one does and not just "believing", or "Lord, Lord", as some do.

budaatum:

I watched a program yesterday that claimed William Tyndale, in translating the Bible into English, added "by faith alone", to oppose papal doctrine regarding works (buying indulgences, praying so many times a day and worship of the saints). Martin Luther is claimed to have done the same in German.

To claim justification by hearing is just so lazy and unbelievable. Even you would hesitate justifying quite a few people whom you sit in church with and who hear with you. Except I hope you are better than that and would rather concern yourself with your own forest in your own eyes.

There is nothing lazy about justification by faith alone Buda. I was guilty as charged by the law, then Jesus stepped in and took the sword of judgement for me. My own part is to believe that he indeed was condemned for me, then I will walk away justified with so much love for the one who was judged guilty for me.

What is there to be done when the work have been finished at the cross? In the new testament we don't forgive those who wrong us because we want God to forgive us. We forgive those that wrong us in one way or another, because we have been forgiven by God.

Proper understanding of this great truth will open us up to grace and the power of God.

budaatum:

I hope by "entrenched" you mean more than mere believing but what I do with the Word in my mind.


There you go. By what one does and not just "believing", or "Lord, Lord", as some do.

Buda, I don't think anybody is putting and disregarding works, certainly not me. Afterall, didn't the scripture say, "we are created in Christ for good works?"

God is please when we walk upright but where the problem comes in is when we entertain the thoughts that we are justified by it. We will have something boast about, if our good works can get into heaven. Don't you think so?

budaatum:

I hope by "entrenched" you mean more than mere believing but what I do with the Word in my mind.


There you go. By what one does and not just "believing", or "Lord, Lord", as some do.

To illustrate this for clearer understanding:
Think of a man who claims he had so much food at home so he is trying to console a homeless pauper who is so hungry and famished,he wants this poor man to trust ~ put faith ~ believe him. He said his father has this Paradise home where everything one can dream of is present. So the pauper reluctantly followed him since he had no hope, on their way home they saw an accident where a truck filled with bread collided with a bus and all the loaf scattered on the road. Now other paupers rushed to the scene,picking loafs of bread and eating immediately not minding if the police could come and arrest them. Then the man who has been saying so much about his home also rushed to the scene striving to get some loafs and to the utmost bewilderment of his friend,he started devouring the loafs even struggling with the paupers for food!
At first his friend taught he was doing all that for him,but no he is fighting for his own stomach!
Please budaatum, do you think the pauper will still BELIEVE him further?
Well that is what the word believer truthfully means!
Most people claiming they believe this or that are saying lots of things but their ACTIONS is totally against what they're saying! Jesus' TRUE followers are saying exactly what they PRACTICE,not just what is programmed in their brains like a recording tape, when their ACTIONS is saying another thing!
'In my father's house[heaven] there are many mansions' they will quote without hesitation but it is obvious in everything they do that they have nothing as such at heart!

Maximus69:
To illustrate this for clearer understanding:
Think of a man who claims he had so much food at home so he is trying to console a homeless pauper who is so hungry and famished,he wants this poor man to trust ~ put faith ~ believe him. He said his father has this Paradise home where everything one can dream of is present. So the pauper reluctantly followed him since he had no hope, on their way home they saw an accident where a truck filled with bread collided with a bus and all the loaf scattered on the road. Now other paupers rushed to the scene,picking loafs of bread and eating immediately not minding if the police could come and arrest them. Then the man who has been saying so much about his home also rushed to the scene striving to get some loafs and to the utmost bewilderment of his friend,he started devouring the loafs even struggling with the paupers for food!
At first his friend taught he was doing all that for him,but no he is fighting for his own stomach!
Please budaatum, do you think the pauper will still BELIEVE him further?
Well that is what the word believer truthfully means!
Most people claiming they believe this or that are saying lots of things but their ACTIONS is totally against what they're saying! Jesus' TRUE followers are saying exactly what they PRACTICE,not just what is programmed in their brains like a recording tape, when their ACTIONS is saying another thing!
'In my father's house[heaven] there are many mansions' they will quote without hesitation but it is obvious in everything they do that they have nothing as such at heart!

Maximus69:
To illustrate this for clearer understanding:
Think of a man who claims he had so much food at home so he is trying to console a homeless pauper who is so hungry and famished,he wants this poor man to trust ~ put faith ~ believe him. He said his father has this Paradise home where everything one can dream of is present. So the pauper reluctantly followed him since he had no hope, on their way home they saw an accident where a truck filled with bread collided with a bus and all the loaf scattered on the road. Now other paupers rushed to the scene,picking loafs of bread and eating immediately not minding if the police could come and arrest them. Then the man who has been saying so much about his home also rushed to the scene striving to get some loafs and to the utmost bewilderment of his friend,he started devouring the loafs even struggling with the paupers for food!
At first his friend taught he was doing all that for him,but no he is fighting for his own stomach!
Please budaatum, do you think the pauper will still BELIEVE him further?
Well that is what the word believer truthfully means!
Most people claiming they believe this or that are saying lots of things but their ACTIONS is totally against what they're saying! Jesus' TRUE followers are saying exactly what they PRACTICE,not just what is programmed in their brains like a recording tape, when their ACTIONS is saying another thing!
'In my father's house[heaven] there are many mansions' they will quote without hesitation but it is obvious in everything they do that they have nothing as such at heart!

The evidence for this is replete on here. Many claim they believe, but their actions are contrary to what they claim to believe. And that is precisely why I am against "believe", after all even demons believe, so how could it be a virtue, especially when there are many verses that state that God prefers undemonic behaviour?

bloodofthelamb:


Buda, I don't think anybody is putting and disregarding works, certainly not me. Afterall, didn't the scripture say, "we are created in Christ for good works?"

God is please when we walk upright but where the problem comes in is when we entertain the thoughts that we are justified by it. We will have something boast about, if our good works can get into heaven. Don't you think so?

Please blood, don't think. Check the evidence on this thread instead.

I have stated that claiming righteousness is an act of hubris. Hubris is when one boasts about one's works, and Jesus specifically preached against it.

bloodofthelamb:


There is nothing lazy about justification by faith alone Buda. I was guilty as charged by the law, then Jesus stepped in and took the sword of judgement for me. My own part is to believe that he indeed was condemned for me, then I will walk away justified with so much love for the one who was judged guilty for me.

What is there to be done when the work have been finished at the cross? In the new testament we don't forgive those who wrong us because we want God to forgive us. We forgive those that wrong us in one way or another, because we have been forgiven by God.

Proper understanding of this great truth will open us up to grace and the power of God.

Blood, I do agree with you, somewhat. Jesus is so benevolent with his love, and not for what we do but simply because we are human. After all, scripture clearly states that "for God so loved the world". I, myself, would not trust that God does not extend that benevolence to goats and sheep too who do no work, after all we've all heard of the birds and the bees that work not. But can I be of Christ and claim "I am justified"? Or should I even justify others? Who made me God, blood? But even after accepting that love of Christ and the power therein, would that love and power not manifest in me and produce much fruit so that God in heaven be glorified?

I believe faith without works that produce fruits is like salt that has lost its saltiness. Christ did give two commands, love God, which is work, and love one another, which is even more work considering how nasty neighbours can be at times. And no, I am not suggesting one is justified by ones work, but that work still needs to be done, unless one thinks singing aleluya is all God requires. I am a Jamesiam I guess, so my faith (the Power of Christ in me) manifests in what I do which is my works, my conduct and my behaviour. Though that's no reason to go about claiming I have done work so therefore I am justified or righteous! As I've said here, claiming righteousness is arrogance. The Pharisee tried it and Christ's retort is clear, “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” However worshipping God is itself work, especially when one considers worshipping God to mean the love one must have for one's neighbour. Or do you not see how much work one must have done in order to be able to turn the other cheek? And is not written that in as much as ye have worshipped the least of these the God in heaven is [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A16&version=KJV]worshipped⁴⁵[/url]? And yet, they are not for righteousness, which I must be careful not to practice in front of others to be seen by them, or I will have no reward from the Father in heaven".

Though some claim works are irrelevant, I do not believe they believe they should therefore do no work (it is here that I agree with you, bloodofthelamb), and scripture is clear on this fact! I bet we all work, even if its preaching the gospel. As for being righteous though, I leave that to God to decide.

budaatum:

The evidence for this is replete on here. Many claim they believe, but their actions are contrary to what they claim to believe. And that is precisely why I am against "believe", after all even demons believe, so how could it be a virtue, especially when there are many verses that state that God prefers undemonic behaviour?

You're right budaatum!
The word believe shouldn't come from the believer's mouth,but the observer! It's pointless saying i believe this or that when the observer can deduce from your actions what exactly is in your mind.
A so called born again argued for more than a year on whether blood transfusion is appropriate or wrong from the viewpoint of a TRUE believer. His take: anyone discouraging blood transfusion is demonic because IT IS MEANT TO SAVE LIFE!
But after asking him if he truthfully BELIEVE in the BLOOD of Jesus,he got confused! Because according to the Bible ONLY through Jesus' BLOOD can anyone be saved! Thus the question again but now rephrased : Do you believe that saving lives can't be possible except through the BLOOD of Jesus ALONE?
He disappeared from the thread!
So if he insisted on no blood transfusion,observers could take him to be stupid but they'll never forget that he stood on his ground claiming only the blood of Jesus can save life.
So who can truthfully talk on what he surely believe, himself or observers?