Let me set camp here...

Hmmmn
Generational curses let me book the space for now

So Rom5:12 and Rom 3:23 is a false doctrine?
Yet,the OP can never deny that man is still paying the hefty price of Adamic sin.

** The way wey some of una dey mis yarn with una posts/topics,
Make una dey fear God oooo !

Janosky:
So Rom5:12 and Rom 3:23 is a false doctrine?
Yet,the OP can never deny that man is still paying the hefty price of Adamic sin.

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” Rom 3:23

I wouldn't say the above is false since even without Adam's sins, I fall short by myself. And even 5:12 has its standing in that I continue to commit the sin Adam sinned. But that Adam's sin is my sin too, that's harsh.

Would God really punish one for the sins of another?

budaatum:

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” Rom 3:23

I wouldn't say the above is false since even without Adam's sins, I fall short by myself. And even 5:12 has its standing in that I continue to commit the sin Adam sinned. But that Adam's sin is my sin too, that's harsh.

Would God really punish one for the sins of another?

God made Adam perfect but Father Adam,as a result of sin, passed on imperfections to us his offspring.

Adam's poor decision making has placed the human race where we are today.
The principle of inheritance still subsists.
The choices/decisions we make today affects generations yet unborn.

God in his wisdom has a frame work to redress these issues which has befallen mankind,through his son Jesus Christ.
God's solutions will not be late, he firmly assured us.(Hab 2:3. Isa55:8-11. Dan2:44. 7:13,14. Rev5:9,10 2pet 3:13. Rev21:3-5)






Yes oooo

Janosky:


God made Adam perfect but Father Adam,as a result of sin, passed on imperfections to us his offspring.

Adam's poor decision making has placed the human race where we are today.
The principle of inheritance still subsists.
The choices/decisions we make today affects generations yet unborn.

God in his wisdom has a frame work to redress these issues which has befallen mankind,through his son Jesus Christ.
God's solutions will not be late, he firmly assured us.(Hab 2:3. Isa55:8-11. Dan2:44. 7:13,14. Rev5:9,10 2pet 3:13. Rev21:3-5)






Yes oooo

A perfect Adam can sin? How come?

budaatum:

A perfect Adam can sin? How come?

Angels are spirit beings & created perfect.
Some of them became rebellious, forsook their God given duties and fell into sin (Gen6:2. 2peter2:4).
Obedience to God is a matter of choice, not by force (Josh24:15. 2Peter2:4).

God will only reward or purnish you on things you have done. God is not a tyrant to His creatures.

Inherited sin is a false doctrine. Have no iota of doubt about that. The doctrine negates God being Just King. It also depicts God as not merciful as sincere repentance from His creatures is not sufficient for God to forgive sins-blood required.

Inherited sin is a blasphemous statement to say the very least.

budaatum:

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” Rom 3:23

I wouldn't say the above is false since even without Adam's sins, I fall short by myself. And even 5:12 has its standing in that I continue to commit the sin Adam sinned. But that Adam's sin is my sin too, that's harsh.

Would God really punish one for the sins of another?

Religion is a tools of controlling minds... That’s what the white what you to believe.


I believe in God and i connect to him in my own way not by following one cock and bull stories that is full of confusion.

Bible said Adam and Eve gave birth to two sons Cain and Abel, Cain killed Abel after that the same bible said God cursed Cain and wander in the land of nod where he met other people. That means there are people who exist before Adam and Eve

Janosky:
So Rom5:12 and Rom 3:23 is a false doctrine?
Yet,the OP can never deny that man is still paying the hefty price of Adamic sin.

** The way wey some of una dey mis yarn with una posts/topics,
Make una dey fear God oooo !

Ignorant people pay for all things more than once.

Janosky:


God made Adam perfect but Father Adam,as a result of sin, passed on imperfections to us his offspring.

Adam's poor decision making has placed the human race where we are today.
The principle of inheritance still subsists.
The choices/decisions we make today affects generations yet unborn.

God in his wisdom has a frame work to redress these issues which has befallen mankind,through his son Jesus Christ.
God's solutions will not be late, he firmly assured us.(Hab 2:3. Isa55:8-11. Dan2:44. 7:13,14. Rev5:9,10 2pet 3:13. Rev21:3-5)






Yes oooo

Adam didn't pass any sin to anyone. It's not biblical.

soulpeppersoup:


Ignorant people pay for all things more than once.

soulpeppersoup:


Adam didn't pass any sin to anyone. It's not biblical.

Talk is cheap.
But lying Pharisee can not alter the word of God. 1cor15:21,22. Rom5:12. 3:23

Grace001:


Religion is a tools of controlling minds... That’s what the white what you to believe.


I believe in God and i connect to him in my own way not by following one cock and bull stories that is full of confusion.

Bible said Adam and Eve gave birth to two sons Cain and Abel, Cain killed Abel after that the same bible said God cursed Cain and wander in the land of nod where he met other people. That means there are people who exist before Adam and Eve

Anything wey you no know big pass you.
You either believe in the Bible as God's word or you don't.
No sitting on the fence.

Janosky:


Talk is cheap.
But lying Pharisee can not alter the word of God. 1cor15:21,22. Rom5:12. 3:23

Did any of those scriptures you typed said sin entered into man?

No!

It said sin entered into the world. Making sin a stain than a genetic configuration.

Did it say all were born of sin?

No!

It says, " all have sin." This make sin a personal action than an inherited action as being preached by many.

If you can't deal with your understanding, stay with the pharisees.

Janosky:

Angels are spirit beings & created perfect.
Some of them became rebellious, forsook their God given duties and fell into sin (Gen6:2. 2peter2:4).
Obedience to God is a matter of choice, not by force (Josh24:15. 2Peter2:4).

They were perfect yet had a flaw in them that allowed them to "become "rebellious, forsook their God given duties and fell into sin"?

Hey! I didn't know angels were created perfect! And spirits too?

I would like to get the video transcript. Any help @budaatum?

Christianity teaches a concept called "original sin" -- saying that because Chava (Eve) made a mistake (sinned) by eating the fruit in the Garden of Eden all of mankind was tainted by sin -- and only through the death of Jesus could G-d fix the mess He made (so much for a perfect G-d) by sacrificing Himself to . . .Himself?

Well, at any rate -- the idea that people are born sinners is totally non-biblical. The T'nach actually tells us that man is INCLINED to sin from his youth, not born into sin. . . G-d Himself said so! "the inclination of man's heart is evil FROM HIS YOUTH." B'reshit / Genesis 8:21. From his YOUTH -- not birth. Not as a result of "original sin" -- and not a sinner but rather INCLINED to sin (from his youth).

Ergo the sin of Adam and Chava (Eve) did not cause "original sin" or the fall of man. Per the Jewish bible we are born good, but with an inclination to evil. Adam and Chava were initially good and evil was external to them (as it is to all of us).

Man's heart is evil from his youth NOT FROM HIS BIRTH, TAINTED WITH THE IMAGINARY ORIGINAL SIN.

"'varim / Deuteronomy 30:15 See! Today I have set before you [a free choice] between life and good [on one side], and death and evil [on the other]. . .30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses! Before you I have placed life and death, the blessing and the curse. You must choose life, so that you and your descendants will survive. "

We are not born into sin. To sin or not to sin is our choice. And sin (and evil) have a purpose. There is a reason they exist -- and it isn't a mistake at all. It is a "teaching tool" -- without evil how will we "choose" good?

A sin is not necessarily evil -- the word "sin" in Hebrew (cheit) actually means a missing of the mark -- you shot an arrow at a target and missed. A boo boo! Would G-d condemn mankind for a boo-boo?

Go back and read the story of Adam and Chava in the Garden of Eden (preferably a decent Jewish translation if you don't read Hebrew). Notice that G-d didn't immediately punish Adam and Chava (Eve) and bar them from the Tree of Life because they disobeyed and ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, but He gave them an opportunity to repent and tell Him the truth (after they had eaten and could recognize that it was wrong to disobey). T'shuva (turning to G-d) thus repenting.

What happened next? Adam and then Chava failed to make t'shuvah and accept responsibility for their actions. What happened next is that Adam blamed Chava. Chava blamed the serpent. Neither took responsibility for their sins. I suggest THAT was the real sin of the Garden -- a lack to take ownership of their behavior. A lack of repentance.

The point is that t'shuvah is an essential part of Torah, and thus Torah gives us the opportunity to partake of eternal life (i.e, communion with G-d) Even when we sin but we must take responsibility for our own actions.

Christian missionaries say G-d cursed Adam and Chava to a horribly hard life and to death. This is because of their fall from grace. But that is not what Torah says happened. G-d curses the serpent not Adam and Chava!

Cursed are you אֲרוּרָ֤ה / aruah is not repeated, nor is a synonym used when G-d addresses Chava and Adam.

Instead in B'reshit 3 G-d says אֲרוּרָ֤ה הָֽאֲדָמָה֙ - arurah ha'adamah -- (cursed is the ground) This speaks of the earth/ground that Adam will have to work - but G-d does not curse Adam or Chava.

This major point is lost in the Christian concept. G-d does not curse Adam and Chava! Adam and Chava are punished, but they are not cursed. They are told that they will not be "on easy street" because of their transgression - she will have pain in childbirth, and he will have to sweat to earn his bread.

People are not born into sin. People are born with an inclination to evil and may choose between good or evil. Again, this is clearly stated in Torah.

This is re-enforced in B'reshit / Genesis 4:7 when G-d speaks to Cain and tells him that good and evil are his choices and that he (Cain) should choose good. G-d tells Cain that he can master evil.

Ergo if Cain can CHOOSE he is not born evil or born into sin.

Read the psalm 24 which speaks of man being given a pure heart. In Genesis we also find out that mankind has an "evil inclination" ("evil in their heart" from their youth, not from birth:

Let us read a bit more of B'reshit / Genesis 8:21 - "And the L-rd smelled the pleasant aroma, and the L-rd said to Himself, "I will no longer curse the earth because of man, for the inclination of man's heart is evil from his youth, and I will no longer smite all living things as I have done."

Now remember, G-d cursed the earth after Adam and Chava ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil -- when G-d did NOT curse them. Here in Genesis 8 G-d removes His curse from the earth -- another point you ignore in the theology of the damned.

So G-d tells us as early as Genesis 4 that we ourselves can master sin and evil that we ourselves must take responsibility and atone. Not only are we NOT born into original sin there is no other person that can take the blame for your actions. You and you alone must atone for your sins.

Evil is not external to you a devil or a taint. Evil is internal to you it is part of who you are. Evil and good battle inside each of us and we have the power to choose good over evil. We are, with the aid of G-d, our own saviors. Each of us face our own test as Adam and Chava did -- to choose good or evil, the blessing or the curse. When we choose to follow our yetzer hara -- our evil inclination then we have internalized that evil -- just as did Adam and Chava so long ago.

The only person who can make you a better person is YOU. The only person who can save you from your mistakes is YOU. No man can die for the sins of another. "The soul that sins, it shall die! The son shall not bear for the sin of the father, nor the father bear for the sin of the son." Y'chezekel / Ezekiel 18.

https://nojesus4jews.weebly.com/sophiees-blog/original-sin-is-not-so-original-it-is-not-biblical

budaatum:

They were perfect yet had a flaw in them that allowed them to "become "rebellious, forsook their God given duties and fell into sin"?

Hey! I didn't know angels were created perfect! And spirits too?

Adam and Eve were no zombies ,neither were angels ,Gen6:2 says angels chose to marry daughters of men.

Is it a flaw for a free moral agent to make choices for himself?

Janosky:

Adam and Eve were no zombies ,neither were angels ,Gen6:2 says angels chose to marry daughters of men.

Is it a flaw for a free moral agent to make choices for himself?

I think it's a flaw if the created disobeys the creator.

And it wasn't the first time either! Or did lucifer fall after Adam. A big flaw, I think. Or perfect freewill disobeying beings. Twice!

What you think?

Omooba224:
I would like to get the video transcript. Any help @budaatum?

Have you watched it?

budaatum:

Have you watched it?

No, I haven't. The phone I am using is damn slow, it is a 2g-mode phone which won't allow me to watch it.

budaatum:

I think it's a flaw if the created disobeys the creator.

And it's wasn't the first time either! Or did lucifer fall after Adam. A big flaw, I think. Or perfect freewill disobeying beings. Twice!

What you think?

This is one of the reasons "omnipotence" quality of god is an illusion. He knew the angels were going to be rebellious yet he created them. Now, such rebellious acts of the creatures infuriate him. Then why is he omnipotent, was he not supposed to know their fallibilities?

Omooba224:
This is one of the reasons "omnipotence" quality of god is an illusion. He knew the angels were going to be rebellious yet he created them. Now, such rebellious acts of the creatures infuriate him. Then why is he omnipotent, was he not supposed to know their fallibilities?

I like what you did there. You assume God isn't omnipotent with your impotent ability to perceive!

You must defend yourself strongly against my insulting allegation above, Omooba. Make sure you understand what I mean first please.

Omooba224:
No, I haven't. The phone I am using is damn slow, it is a 2g-mode phone which won't allow me to watch it.

Sorry, no transcript. But worth watching.

(I apologise for assuming in my head to insult you for being lazy. The one above stands though till defended!)

budaatum:

I think it's a flaw if the created disobeys the creator.

And it's wasn't the first time either! Or did lucifer fall after Adam. A big flaw, I think. Or perfect freewill disobeying beings. Twice!

What you think?

It's not a flaw.
Rather it's abuse or misuse of the God given right to make choices for one's self.
God made it so for a purpose ,for the good of man & his eternal wellbeing.
Abuse or misuse distorts the process & the consequences are not palatable.
We see the replica of this issue in our daily lives.
For instance the knife was designed for domestic use in the kitchen for the process of food preparation.
But to some one else ,that same knife is his perfect weapon for murder.
The question is: Where did the flaw arise;from the maker of the knife or the wrong purposes for which the knife was put to use?
Ecclesiastics 7:29.

Omooba224:
This is one of the reasons "omnipotence" quality of god is an illusion. He knew the angels were going to be rebellious yet he created them. Now, such rebellious acts of the creatures infuriate him. Then why is he omnipotent, was he not supposed to know their fallibilities?

Isaiah 45:9-11.
He never created them or mankind to be rebellious (Rev4:11. Eph1:3. 3:14. Gen1:26-31.Eccl12:1,13.
1cor10:31).
The Supreme Maker's blue print for mankind has largely been ignored. But people turn around to blame Him for man's woes.


God made his creatures free moral agents.
But some of his creatures (man and angels abused or misused it.
Eccl7:29.

Your car came with a manual, will your car maker force you to follow the manual?

soulpeppersoup:


Did any of those scriptures you typed said sin entered into man?

No!

It said sin entered into the world. Making sin a stain than a genetic configuration.

Did it say all were born of sin?

No!

It says, " all have sin." This make sin a personal action than an inherited action as being preached by many.

If you can't deal with your understanding, stay with the pharisees.

Through which man did sin enter the world?
Is that man your ancestor? Pls read these scriptures prayerfully and get the sense of it.
Rom5:12-18.. 1cor15:21,22
God bless.

budaatum:

I like what you did there. You assume God isn't omnipotent with your impotent ability to perceive!

You must defend yourself strongly against my insulting allegation above, Omooba. Make sure you understand what I mean first please.

; D
My bad! Why did I even mention a non-existent dude in the first place? I failed to perceive such an imaginary folk yet I was quick to say he is not omnipotent.

Janosky:


It's not a flaw.

The question is: Where did the flaw arise;from the maker of the knife or the wrong purposes for which the knife was put to use?
Ecclesiastics 7:29.

There's no flaw, then there is a flaw!? Do we agree there's a flaw then? I don't agree it's like knifes though, since that which energises the knife is the external hand that pits it to use and that which energises humans is their own internal freewill, I think we agreed, though I'd not quibble on the initial spark.

If so, is not the potential to be flawed a flaw in the design itself?

Janosky:


Through which man did sin enter the world?
Is that man your ancestor?

Did you read what you just wrote? Through which man did sin enter the world?

I thought you would ask, through which man did sin enter man?

Sorry for your lack of understanding.