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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Foreign Affairs / African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread (6129060 Views)
African Militaries Strictly Discussions Thread. / African Militaries - Discussed And Dissected / What Countries Have The Weakest Militaries In Africa? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by patches689: 9:39pm On Apr 15, 2019 |
Algerian1: I have always preferred the MIG over the SU's. For purely aesthetic reasons. 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 10:33pm On Apr 15, 2019 |
patches689: For beauty i like more the sukhoi family ![]() 2 Likes 1 Share
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by kikuyu1(m): 9:21am On Apr 16, 2019 |
patches689: Errrr,no...as you can see it drops twice the distance of a 7.62 NATO at 500 m and hits with less force than a .38 bullet [b]while the former has 9x the force!!
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by 61mech: 11:59am On Apr 16, 2019 |
Go to pace out 500m somewhere and actually look at what a human target looks like at that distance. That's not a realistic range to be hitting anything with a standard open sight assault rifle. (BTW. flip sights will compensate for drop.) Even with a combat optic you'd issue to a rifleman its very difficult. Additionally you're target is also not going to present you with a full torso range target and if he does, hell be moving making it practically impossible. Your disqualifying the caliber based on what it would be asked to do in 2% (being generous) of combat situations while ignoring the massive weight penalty of 7.62 NATO. Carrying 200 rounds doesn't mean you're expecting to kill 200 enemy. 95% of your fire is speculative (people tend to go to cover when shot at) or covering fire to enable you to manoeuvre and close distance on the enemy. Thats were round count and volume of fire comes in to play) All this stuff has been played out in combat since WW2. Army doctrine is not based in theory. There's a reason all major countries have dropped the 7.62mm as a assault rifle round. kikuyu1: 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by kikuyu1(m): 4:51pm On Apr 16, 2019 |
61mech: The bolded is smth everyone ignores! For now our the 5.56 mm is adequate-none of us at least on this continent have faced properly trained and kitted oppos. However in Syria,level 3 armour wearing ISIS have been confronted. What happens when one day the SADF encounters a true formation beyond the level of FAPLA and/or M 23,a properly enemy force armed with 7.62 mm and level 4 body armour? IIRC,even Nemesis8u,said the Indian brass was overjoyed by the induction of the 7.62 NATO Trichy to replace the smaller INSAS. Anyway,give me your opinion in the following scenario: 2 enemy platoons blunder into each other at 400m. Both are units of proper national armies and thus equally trained though one has 5.56 mm and the other 7.62 NATO-who'll come out on top all things being equal? 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by 61mech: 6:09pm On Apr 16, 2019 |
"scenario: 2 enemy platoons blunder into each other at 400m" Problem with that is that combat is a fluid situation. That distance will change depending on the situation and how you are going to maneuver on eachother. Besides, those platoons will have 7.62NATO/Russian available in their MG teams anyway. I'm not a fan of replacing 7.62mm LMG's with 5.56 btw. I'd even go as far as having it at the squad level. My point is that combat doesn't happen on a shooting range with angry guy poster targets. For example, 5.56mm also doubles the distance your platoon can fire and maneuver. Lets say, 5to7 shots for every bound at 20 metres (10m bound-cover, fire 5/7 aimed shots + 10m bound).Count the distance for 200 rounds expended. 7.62NATO wouldn't even get you half that. On top of that, I'm doing 30% less mag changes with my 30 or 50 rounder than the other guy with his 20. Mag changes are a bitch in maneuver combat, because you have to retain mags AND try to do your mag swaps on the run when your nr2. is on the ground covering your exposed ass. I gave up on putting empties back in my pouches and just dumped them straight into my shirt. Its not like movies or a IPSIC competition were you just drop mags on the ground. What I can tell you for sure is that the Pl. armed with 7.62 will run out of ammo in 1/2 the time and distance covered if not sooner. Remember, you need to keep 1/3rd of your ammo in reserve after contact is broken with the enemy. That's the SOP in case of a counter attack. That leaves you with 100-120 rounds max for 7.62 in the fight. That goes pretty quickly. On top of that, I dont think anyone disputes the fact that most infantry combat takes place at less than 300m with the vast majority happening at less than 100m historically. If your going to stand at 400m and shoot at each other I'd actually prefer to have my .300 WinMag with a scope rather than a 7.62 or a 556. Also, the Indian Army (ignoring the fact that they've been pretty clue-less about selecting a rifle over the last 30years) is "standardizing" on intermediate cal. (5.56 Caracal's CAR 816 and 7.62x39 AK) for the bulk of their forces. kikuyu1: 5 Likes |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by lionel4power(m): 6:46pm On Apr 16, 2019 |
Xbee007:Really?!! |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 7:14pm On Apr 16, 2019 |
A 1 Like
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 7:15pm On Apr 16, 2019 |
Mi 171 . alg 1 Like 1 Share
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by SuperSixSeven: 8:05pm On Apr 16, 2019 |
61mech: Couldnt finish my statement this afternoon but i was about to say almost the same here on this!!! |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 12:06am On Apr 17, 2019 |
kikuyu1: I suspect you got confused or quoted by mistake , Trichy is 7.62 X 39 not NATO. It is being inducted by paramilitary and police only. IA stand wrt small arms is like a monkey run circles inside a rolling barrel. Understand the analogy half blame is on army , half blame is on evolving situations. First they had 7.62 X 51 SLRs , then one fine day they decided they needed 5.56 calibre guns , rational was same as NATO , 5.56 creates injuries and helps to tie down enemy manpower . But problem is then army was expecting to fight conventional wars running into weeks and months. But then can large scale terrorism from across border , 5.56 was inadequate in that a jihadi did not give a fuccck about injuries his or his colleagues , and fought back killing quite a few soldiers. Older AKs being used were inadequate in nos and lacked optic mounts etc , untill 3 years back. Now for counter terrorist forces ( including army units on deputation ) 7.62 X 39 rifled will be issued replacing older Aks. plus Ghatak , Trichy both 7.62 X 39 r also being simultaneously being inducted into CT forces. There r approx 2 million paramilitary/ CAPF forces whose units get rotated into CT ops , army units r additional. For conventional warfare , certain frontline infantry units, IA is looking for 7.62 X 51 some will be filled by Sig rifles and other by local R2 . One of the reasons could be operational doctrine , short decisive wars , get in , do what u need to do , get out . No need to worry about tying up enemy logistics by creating injuries , since the expected duration of war is very short . Kill on hit, and move on . Plus original training was always on shoot to kill ( conserve ammo , fire discipline ) , sort of difficult in case of 5.56. Cross border firefights 5.56 proved inadequate at range. 51 better . Also 5.56 is not being discarded , it will stay . Personally think 51 and 5.56 will stay side by side. As per my observational experience ![]() In CT ops it's << 150 m. Regarding 7.62 and 5.56 at 400m which is more effective ? The answer is like a half filled half empty glass , depending on the individuals familiarity or comfort with the calibe. I will go for 7.62 on semi auto , DMR at 400m will give good results most of the times. In CQB full auto ![]() Actually the answers to these questions lies in doing it in the battlefield realtime and surviving to pass on the judgement ![]() ![]() ![]() Caracal's CAR 816 tender will be cancelled most probably. And IA is not standardizing on 7.62x 39 , it is for paramilitary ( standard issue ) and for army units on deputation to RR battalions , on rotation back to their original units , they will get their standard issue rifles either 7.62 51 or 5.56 . 2 Likes |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by kikuyu1(m): 9:53am On Apr 17, 2019 |
Fidha254: My own info is that it will build a Sigma Frigate 10513 like the Moroccan F-613 RMNS Tarik Ben Ziad . It makes sense since the KN has been building up their blue ocean capacity slowly.
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by kikuyu1(m): 10:16am On Apr 17, 2019 |
Thanks,Nemesis8u and 61mech! The takeaway is tactics and specific scenarios all have a place in the firefight not just calibre. |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by unknown87: 1:38pm On Apr 17, 2019 |
Xbee007:One of the stubborn ones that'll never listen 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by 61mech: 2:41pm On Apr 17, 2019 |
You also need to consider follow up shots when talking about 5.56vs7.62NATO. If you take into account total amount of hits a trained rifleman can make in a set amount of time at distance, you might find that the sum of 5.56 hits could very well produce close to the total ft.lbs a 7.62 NATO can achieve in the same time. The anecdotal evidence from the "war on terror" conflicts of the last 18 years are just that, anecdotal. There are plenty of WW2 stories of Japanese continuing to charge after being hit by 30-06 M1's. I suspect if you look at the bodies of dead insurgents that kept on fighting, you'd find that shot placement was more of a factor in them surviving hits. I've personally seen guys take 300lbs. deer with a 5.56mm, so I dont see why some call it a "wounding round" on people. Full disclosure, I myself don't use 5.56 for deer. For the last couple of seasons I've used a Howa MiniAction in 6.5 Grendel. Mostly, because I like the handling and the action. If you look at the US army's RFP's for new rifle ammo, they seem to be more concerned by barrier penetration/deflection than energy. The 62-grain bullet for the new M855A1 ammo is a far cry from the old M855. It even outperformed 7.62 NATO on steel. kikuyu1: 2 Likes |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Fidha254(m): 4:05pm On Apr 17, 2019 |
kikuyu1:Unless the economy grows to above 7% next year I don't expect to see the navy making any major moves on anything above $100m in my view. |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by gottfried21(m): 9:08am On Apr 18, 2019 |
China’s new Z-20 helicopter Might’ve gotten a little inspiration from the UH-60(That’s putting it nicely) ![]() Wouldn’t mind if my country bought a few of these tbh 2 Likes 1 Share
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Xbee007(m): 9:14am On Apr 18, 2019 |
gottfried21:Is there anything the Chinese won't copy? They no get shame at all. 1 Share
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by MiddleDimension: 10:08am On Apr 18, 2019 |
nemesis8u: you mean with the air hostess? 闷骚! |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 1:22pm On Apr 18, 2019 |
MiddleDimension: I just can't believe u guys ![]() I was talking about having a illegal quick snack of left over Hors d'oeuvres courtesy the attendants , well unless the passengers have mutinied and taken over the gallery services. I tell u adrenaline rush is real when u partake in food not meant for u ![]() Did not want to say it , I am like a 5 year old kid lost among wolves here ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by ViceAdmirlAgain: 2:37pm On Apr 18, 2019 |
gottfried21: Jeremy Clarkson once said Copyright infringement was badly translated into mandarin ![]() |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 3:25pm On Apr 18, 2019 |
Xbee007:reason for the ongoing USA China trade war ![]() 1 Like |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 3:26pm On Apr 18, 2019 |
Where the fvck is our jf17 thunder jets? ![]() |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Texman21: 3:51pm On Apr 18, 2019 |
krattoss:jf-17 no wan come naija 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by shadowprimezero: 4:39pm On Apr 18, 2019 |
Looks like another A-109 bit the dust. God these birds are shit! 1 Share
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Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by bidexiii: 5:53pm On Apr 18, 2019 |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by bidexiii: 5:55pm On Apr 18, 2019 |
shadowprimezero: Seriously you call them "poo" ![]() |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 6:15pm On Apr 18, 2019 |
shadowprimezero:3 down....27 to go...smh |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 6:16pm On Apr 18, 2019 |
bidexiii:Well they're not exactly great!! |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Xbee007(m): 6:52pm On Apr 18, 2019 |
jln115:Or the maintenance crew need some retraining. |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Odunayaw(m): 7:06pm On Apr 18, 2019 |
huh!?! |
Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by Nobody: 7:08pm On Apr 18, 2019 |
Xbee007:OR!! It's the fact that It has severe problems at hot 'n high!! As proven in multiple crashes across Hot n' High conditions INCLUDING Nigeria! 2 Likes 1 Share
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