Shepherd00:

Sin is the Spiritual killer.

That's what I too would say. The idea that God would go about killing sinners makes God sound petty and is just repugnant.

MuttleyLaff:


When the electricity channelled to an iron is switched off after the iron is being hot, though there is no more electricity generating to the iron, it will still be hot due to residual heat. The heat that remains or lingers after turning off the electricity flow to the iron up to when it eventualy turns stone cold, is tantamount to physical death and the actual instance of turning off the electrictity flow to the iron, is tantamount to spiritual death

Sin leads to separation, death whether physical or spiritual is a separation and/or dividing line. There is no two ways to this rule. Ezekiel 18:20 states that: "The soul that sinneth, it shall die."

I Agree.
But, why do the redeemed still die, I mean the physical bodily death?

We have received the life which we lost through Adam to death in Eden, and now have Jesus' life in us which is eternal life, why then do we still die the physical death?

Shepherd00:
Yes, if we must go the context you drew. But, the context with which the pages the " wages of sin is dead" was taken is Spiritual dead because wages are rewards.

Oh, Well. I give up.

Those alleged kids, truth is they werent kids at all, anyway the question is, did they physically pay with their lives or not, for mocking the prophet of God

Shepherd00:
I Agree.
But, why do the redeemed still die, I mean the physical bodily death?

We have received the life which we lost through Adam to death in Eden, and now have Jesus' life in us which is eternal life, why then do we still die the physical death?

We still die the physical death because death has not been put into the Lake of Fire destroyed yet

budaatum:

That's what I too would say. The idea that God would go about killing sinners makes God sound petty and is just repugnant.

Well, to humans, it may seem petty and repugnant, but it won't be to God. The Native dwellers of these lands were wiped out by God because they were so evil: The Amorites, the Canaanites,the Jebusites,
the Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites Hittites, the Amalakites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Arvadites, the Zemarites, the Hamathites a lot of other tribes.

Anyone who feels it was or is repugnant for Him to kill whom he chooses, should dictate to God how to Administrate his earth. After all, He finished creating everything on earth before creating Man, so that Man won't brag and say, 'We did it together'.

MuttleyLaff:
We still die the physical death because death has not been put into the Lake of Fire destroyed yet

Oh yeah. Very true.

MuttleyLaff:
Those alleged kids, truth is they werent kids at all, anyway the question is, did they physically pay with their lives or not, for mocking the prophet of God

No, they were not kids because they knew what they were doing. Besides, they were sponsored by satan to ridicule the prophet of God.

And, yes, they paid with their paid with their lives.

Thank God for Grace today, so many including me sef, wld have gone the way of those kids.

May God forgive me for mocking and calling His servants names.

To Him, they stand or fall. I didn't call any man into ministry, to judge their modes of operations.

Shepherd00:
Well, to humans, it may seem petty and repugnant, but it won't be to God. The Native dwellers of these lands were wiped out by God because they were so evil: The Amorites, the Canaanites,the Jebusites,
the Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites Hittites, the Amalakites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Arvadites, the Zemarites, the Hamathites a lot of other tribes.

Anyone who feels it was or is repugnant for Him to kill whom he chooses, should dictate to God how to Administrate his earth. After all, He finished creating everything on earth before creating Man, so that Man won't brag and say, 'We did it together'.

Some of us believe we are cleverer than God, some of us believe we can do a better work than God. Some of us believe we're smarter than God. Some us believe we've got all the answers, but really don't at all understand jackshit

MuttleyLaff:
Some of us believe we are cleverer than God, some of us believe we can do a better work than God. Some of us believe we're smarter than God. Some us believe we've got all the answers, but really don't at all understand jackshit

None of us understands Anything really.

No one can tell God how to rule His earth.


I remember a movie a saw long ago. 'Bruce Almighty'. A dissatisfied man who complained about everything, until he was offered the job of being God, then he almost went insane because he couldn't even understanding all the languages people used in prayers to him.

He then understood that God's job was not an easy one.

Shepherd00:
No, they were not kids because they knew what they were doing. Besides, they were sponsored by satan to ridicule the prophet of God.

And, yes, they paid with their paid with their lives.

Thank God for Grace today, so many including me sef, wld have gone the way of those kids.

Oh, seems I didnt make it clear enough. This is another misinterpretation, as the 42 casualties werent kids, they actually were mouthy young adult males. When this incident happened, Elisha was still quite a young man, just as much about similar age, as these young men were too

Shepherd00:
May God forgive me for mocking and calling His servants names.

To Him, they stand or fall. I didn't call any man into ministry, to judge their modes of operations.

There is a reason for every thing. There is a verse that Elisha activated that triggerred that divine retribution

Shepherd00:
None of us understands Anything really.

No one can tell God how to rule His earth.


I remember a movie a saw long ago. 'Bruce Almighty'. A dissatisfied man who complained about everything, until he was offered the job of being God, then he almost went insane because he couldn't even understanding all the languages people used in prayers to him.

He then understood that God's job was not an easy one.

"the above YouTube clip features Jim Carey, known for his role as Bruce in the 2003 Hollywood movie "Bruce Almighty," where in, God (i.e. Morgan Freeman acted as God) actually contacts Bruce and offers him all of His powers, if Bruce thinks he can do a better job than God. Try and watch the movie, if you never have watched it. Good movie. Another good movie with Jim Carey in it, is "Liar, Liar" It's about a kid, who prayed and wish that his dad, a lawyer, will stop lying for a whole day and the wish was immediately put into practice."
- Religion / Re: Purpose Of Creation? by MuttleyLaff: 7:53am On Jul 22

MuttleyLaff:
Oh, seems I didnt make it clear enough. This is another misinterpretation, as the 42 casualties werent kids, they actually were mouthy young adult males. When this incident happened, Elisha was still quite a young man, just as much about similar age, as these young men were too

Oh really? I didn't know this.

42 young men!!! That was quite a huge crowd to taunt just one man.

MuttleyLaff:
"the above YouTube clip features Jim Carey, known for his role as bruce in the 2003 Hollywood movie "Bruce Almighty," where in, God (i.e. Morgan Freeman acted as God) actually contacts Bruce and offers him all of His powers, if Bruce thinks he can do a better job than God. Try and watch the movie, if you never have watched it. Good movie. Another good movie with Jim Carey in it, is "Liar, Liar" It's about a kid, who prayed and wish that his dad, a lawyer, will stop lying for a whole day and the wish was immediately put into practice."
- Religion / Re: Purpose Of Creation? by MuttleyLaff: 7:53am On Jul 22

I have seen 'Bruce Almighty', but not seen Lair, lair. Will look for it.

Shepherd00:
Oh really? I didn't know this.

42 young men!!! That was quite a huge crowd to taunt just one man.

Yes they were young men. As I said, there is a reason for every thing. There is no smoke without fire. There actually is a verse that Elisha activated what triggerred that divine retribution

MuttleyLaff:
Oh, seems I didnt make it clear enough. This is another misinterpretation, as the 42 casualties werent kids, they actually were mouthy young adult males. When this incident happened, Elisha was still quite a young man, just as much about similar age, as these young men were too

There is a reason for every thing. There is a verse that Elisha activated that triggerred that divine retribution

Which verse is that?

Shepherd00:
Oh really? I didn't know this.
42 young men!!! That was quite a huge crowd to taunt just one man.

They made a suicidal stance when they indicated that Elisha should move, stay and keep away from their town

Abraham and Jacob probably were turning in their graves, thinking isn't this the same Bethel we know, that has come to this

Shepherd00:
I have seen 'Bruce Almighty', but not seen Lair, lair. Will look for it.

Its "Liar, Liar" and not "Lair, Lair"

Shepherd00:
Which verse is that?

Contact me via my Profile, I'll mail you the verse and possibly fill in more details if you do ask

MuttleyLaff:
They made a suicidal stance when they indicated that Elisha should move, stay and keep away from their town

Abraham and Jacob probably were turning in their graves, thinking isn't this the same Bethel we know, that has come to this

Its "Liar, Liar" and not "Lair, Lair"

Contact me via my Profile, I'll mail you the verse and possibly fill in more details if you do ask

Okay Liar, Liar.

You mean I shd send you a mail?

Shepherd00:
Okay Liar, Liar.
You mean I shd send you a mail?

Contact me via my Profile page's "Send E-Mail Message To MuttleyLaff" link, so I can send you the verse

Shepherd00:

Support God's actions? These kids really do not have the slightest idea of who God is, really.

Listen, even if it was God who sent the beast to kill those kids, He needs no man's approval.


The reason you ask this question is not because you care for those kids, but because you see yourself in those kids who insult God and the people of God, but wants no reprisal.

You want to commit your sins and get away with them.

Sorry sir. Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished
Proverbs 11:21a

so those kids are wicked!

MuttleyLaff:
Those alleged kids, truth is they werent kids at all, anyway the question is, did they physically pay with their lives or not, for mocking the prophet of God

see we should stop defending double standards in the bible! Those things that happened in the bible were crime against humanity! The injustice against the poor in the old testament was every pathetic even Jesus condemned their action in the book of Mathew 12:1-10.

jcross19:
so those kids are wicked!

They are not kids. They werent kids. They were young men, just as Elisha was when the incident happened.

jcross19:
see we should stop defending double standards in the bible! Those things that happened in the bible were crime against humanity! The injustice against the poor in the old testament was every pathetic even Jesus condemned their action in the book of Mathew 12:1-10.

What are you on about with this comment. What crime against humanity are you talking off here. Are you aware of the historical story of those young men's town or city? Can you imagine how Abraham and Jacob would have felf in their graves at the rebuffs of these young men, hmm? What injustice against the poor in the old testament in relation to this unnecessary tragic event brought upon themselves did Jesus condemn?

finalboss:
If I thought that story was anything more than a myth, I would be aghast. How could modern Christians believe in a God who would do this to little children?

Some people realise how embarrassing this passage is for theism and seek to mitigate the impact by saying that the victims were youths or young men, not little children — as if that should make a difference.

Why shouldn't it make a difference? Older people are considered more responsible for their actions than little children are. This statement doesn't make sense.

But let's suppose they were in fact younger children. Your complaint still has a number of issues. You claim that 42 kids were mauled to death. The problem is, it doesn't say "mauled to death." It just says "mauled" (or "tare" in the translation you cite). That indicates definite injury, but not necessarily death.

But let's suppose they were killed. Some points are overlooked when people complain about this passage. First: It says 42 were killed. Now, those who complain about the passage frame this as being terrible, that 42 were attacked! What they seem to not miss is the fact that this means there were at least 42 that were in a group here (the language implies there were more, as it doesn't say all 42). This is important for two reasons.

First, in regards to the above question of whether they were killed or injured. It is very difficult for two bears to manage to kill 42 people unless those people are all just standing around not moving while the bears are on the attack. If you're with a big group and some bears show up and start attacking people, are you just going to stand there dumbly? No, you're going to run away as fast as you can. Bears can kill people but it takes them a little bit of time to do it (versus simply injuring them, which is obviously faster) and it would be very difficult for the bears to have time to kill that many people while they're all running away.

Second, do you think 42+ people decided to go out of their way just to throw a few insults at Elisha for the heck of it? That seems implausible. Far more likely is that they were actually threatening him and were planning to rob or possibly kill him (the "go on up" jeer can refer to going on up to heaven). If someone is attacking someone else in order to kill and rob them, is it particularly problematic to defend that person by attacking or (if necessary) even killing the robber?

Chidorx60:
oga budataaum are u making sense na,
Please reread your post again

I just tire

My claim from the beginning of this thread is that God never told nor gave anyone a reason for what God did, and that what we read in the quoted text is precisely one person's opinion about what happened and God never killed anyone, not even those you listed, which is the equivalent of the history of Biafra as written by the conquering looters!

Shepherd00:

Well, to humans, it may seem petty and repugnant, but it won't be to God. The Native dwellers of these lands were wiped out by God because they were so evil: The Amorites, the Canaanites,the Jebusites,
the Girgasites, the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites Hittites, the Amalakites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Arvadites, the Zemarites, the Hamathites a lot of other tribes.

Anyone who feels it was or is repugnant for Him to kill whom he chooses, should dictate to God how to Administrate his earth. After all, He finished creating everything on earth before creating Man, so that Man won't brag and say, 'We did it together'.

Hilarious.
The more they struggle to explain the passage the tighter the noose gets.
1. They were not children but youths.
2. You can't dictate to god:He kills who he wants and how he wants.
3.The 42 kids were not killed by the two bears but maimed.
4.The children were possessed by demons to insult the God of man.
5. The usual translation excuse.

Pathetic and sickening justification of outright genocide and cold blooded murder.

This same bible passage was treated on these boards a few years ago. As usual the Christian's had their brains so far up their arses you could smell the bullsh1t from miles away.
Twisting and turning as they tried to justify murder.

https://www.nairaland.com/1062252/elisha-little-children-what-does

budaatum:
My claim from the beginning of this thread is that God never told nor gave anyone a reason for what God did, and that what we read in the quoted text is precisely one person's opinion about what happened and God never killed anyone, not even those you listed, which is the equivalent of the history of Biafra as written by the conquering looters!

Your claim from the beginning is marked by fault(s).

Fyi, there was a covenant. In fact, Moses warned them about the blessings and the curses of the covenant. Elisha, rightfully just referred to the curses, when they indirectly rejected God, by asking Elisha to take a hike and leave their city alone. They rudely flipped the bird, gave Elisha the middle finger and told him to fairk off literally

RandomGuy48:
Why shouldn't it make a difference? Older people are considered more responsible for their actions than little children are. This statement doesn't make sense.

But let's suppose they were in fact younger children. Your complaint still has a number of issues. You claim that 42 kids were mauled to death. The problem is, it doesn't say "mauled to death." It just says "mauled" (or "tare" in the translation you cite). That indicates definite injury, but not necessarily death.

But let's suppose they were killed. Some points are overlooked when people complain about this passage. First: It says 42 were killed. Now, those who complain about the passage frame this as being terrible, that 42 were attacked! What they seem to not miss is the fact that this means there were at least 42 that were in a group here (the language implies there were more, as it doesn't say all 42). This is important for two reasons.

First, in regards to the above question of whether they were killed or injured. It is very difficult for two bears to manage to kill 42 people unless those people are all just standing around not moving while the bears are on the attack. If you're with a big group and some bears show up and start attacking people, are you just going to stand there dumbly? No, you're going to run away as fast as you can. Bears can kill people but it takes them a little bit of time to do it (versus simply injuring them, which is obviously faster) and it would be very difficult for the bears to have time to kill that many people while they're all running away.

Second, do you think 42+ people decided to go out of their way just to throw a few insults at Elisha for the heck of it? That seems implausible. Far more likely is that they were actually threatening him and were planning to rob or possibly kill him (the "go on up" jeer can refer to going on up to heaven). If someone is attacking someone else in order to kill and rob them, is it particularly problematic to defend that person by attacking or (if necessary) even killing the robber?

They werent kids, these were young men on a concerted attack and organised mission that God and His prophet representing Him, are not wanted, would not be tolerated, are not welcome in their city.

Dantedasz:
Hilarious.

Nothing hilarious in this tragic incident, but quite a lot to learn from and out of it, I'll say.

Dantedasz:
The more they struggle to explain the passage the tighter the noose gets.

There isnt any struggle in explaining the passage. The passage is more like, if you know, you know. Who no know, no go know

Dantedasz:
1. They were not children but youths.

They werent children, they were youths, young men, about same age as Elisha in fact, when the bears attacked.

Dantedasz:
2. You can't dictate to god: He kills who he wants and how he wants.

Death is inevitable. Something must kill a man. Death will come and is mandatory too

Death is a universal truth that can never be defied. We cant change this truth, we all are born with limited breath. Weirdly enough, when you come to think of of it, there are no punishment far worse than death.

Dantedasz:
3.The 42 kids were not killed by the two bears but maimed.

They were killed, mauled by the bears. The young men were frozen to the spot with fright when the bears appeared. They likely wanted to run but their feet were literally rooted to the ground, as if glued to the spot and locked-in to the ground. They couldnt run, because they were paralysed out of fear of seeing two blood thirsty bears baying for their puny hide and arse.

Dantedasz:
4.The children were possessed by demons to insult the God of man.

Ecclesiastes 7:17 states that: "Do not excel at wickedness, nor be a fool. Why die before your time?"

Those young men got their comeuppance. They carelessly shortened their lives by their bad and/or foolish actions. Abraham and Jacob, probably were turning in their graves at the behaviour of those young men. Abraham and Jacob, were probably rubbing their eyes in disbelief, wondering isnt this the same Bethel we knew and a place we associated with God.

It is tragic, that because Deuteronomy 6:2 was ignored, the young men didnt live a long time, didnt enjoy a long life and the promise that their days may be long didnt happen for them.

Dantedasz:
5. The usual translation excuse.

Pathetic and sickening justification of outright genocide and cold blooded murder.

There was a covenant between them and God. The covenant had terms and conditions. Read Deuteronomy 5:1-33 and Deuteronomy 6:1-25, to know more about the covenant made between them and God at Mount Horeb.

Dantedasz:
This same bible passage was treated on these boards a few years ago. As usual the Christian's had their brains so far up their arses you could smell the bullsh1t from miles away.
Twisting and turning as they tried to justify murder.

https://www.nairaland.com/1062252/elisha-little-children-what-does

The contribution OLAADEGBU posted on that thread went swoosh over everyone's head, like as if it was a Naija Airforce fighter jet and "people didn't know warris going on"

People still don't understand how GOD ALMIGHTY hates sin. I think we will know how fierce our Righteous GOD is in the last days and in death.

By the way, Elijah sent the bears not GOD. It shows how impatient man is compared to GOD. We are in the time of grace my dear friends. Don't abuse this privilege from GOD.

Mankind needs to repent and stop taunting the CREATOR on a daily basis.

OpenYourEyes1:
People still don't understand how GOD ALMIGHTY hate sin. I think we will know how ruthless our Righteous GOD is in the last days and in death.

"Then the LORD passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth"
- Exodus 34:6

"The LORD is compassionate and gracious, Slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness"
- Psalm 103:8

Becareful how you speak of God. God is Compassionate and not ruthless

OpenYourEyes1:
By the way, Elijah sent the bears not GOD. It shows how impatient man is compared to GOD. We are in the time of grace my dear friends. Don't abuse this privilege by GOD.

Mankind needs to repent and stop taunting the CREATOR on a daily basis.

It is the other way round, please dont get things twisted

MuttleyLaff:
"Then the LORD passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth"
- Exodus 34:6

"The LORD is compassionate and gracious, Slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness"
- Psalm 103:8

Becareful how you speak of God. God is Compassionate and not ruthless

It is the other way round, please dont get things twisted

His compassion is not an excuse to continue living in sin. Haven't you heard of the global flood of Noah, (with unbelievable evidences around the world)?. Haven't you heard of Sodom and Gomorrah? Haven't you heard that millions of people are still hell? We need to stop deceiving our filthy selves