budaatum:

I was an atheist who had never been a theist. I knew there were no gods. If I could have existed then others might too.

So you never really knew that, you merely believe there were no gods. You thought you knew but you didn't really.

Also, one may believe in God's existence and not worship God. The Lord Lord people spring to mind, and some define them as atheists.

So what about other atheists on this forum? Do they also know there is a God?

rekinomtla:


So you never really knew that, you merely believe there were no gods. You thought you knew but you didn't really.



So what about other atheists on this forum? Do they also know there is a God?

Please do not put your own spin over what I clearly say or you will not understand whatever I might mean!

It was not something I "thought. I categorically knew that Gods did not exist.

And you will have to ask those other atheists on this forum what they know or not since like all theists are not the same so are all atheists not the same. Most of them do say though they "believe God does not exist".

budaatum:

Please do not put your own spin over what I clearly say or you will not understand whatever I might mean!

It was not something I "thought. I categorically knew that Gods did not exist.

So you telling me you knew there were no gods when you were an atheist. But now you know that there is a God. Sounds pretty weird how you know things.

And you will have to ask those other atheists on this forum what they know or not since like all theists are not the same so are all atheists not the same. Most of them do say though they "believe God does not exist".

But according to your definition of theism, they knew there was a God when they were theists.

rekinomtla:
So you telling me you knew there were no gods when you were an atheist. But now you know that there is a God. Sounds pretty weird how you know things.

But according to your definition of theism, they knew there was a God when they were theists.

I never said "they knew there was a God when they were theists"! In fact, most atheists claim to "believe there is no God", while theists tend to " believe there is a God". Or have you heard any atheist or theist saying they know there is or no God? I bet even you believe that God exists. Are you not a theist?

God things are usually weird, foolishness to those who comprehendeth, someone wrote.

budaatum:

I never said "they knew there was a God when they were theists"!

You don't have to say that, it follows from your definition of theism. You define it as the "acknowledgement of the existence of God", that theists are people that know God exists.

In fact, most atheists claim to "believe there is no God", while theists tend to " believe there is a God".

So what is a theist now then? One who believes or one who knows God exists?

Or have you heard any atheist or theist saying they know there is or no God?

Yes

I bet even you believe that God exists. Are you not a theist?

Yep I am a theist because theism is the belief in the existence of a deity or deities.

God things are usually weird, foolishness to those who comprehendeth, someone wrote.

it never said it was foolish, I just said it seems weird/odd how you using the terms know/knew.

rekinomtla:
You don't have to say that, it follows from your definition of theism. You define it as the "acknowledgement of the existence of God", that theists are people that know God exists.

Please reki. I speak for myself and do not know the hearts of others. My definition applies to me, and not to anyone else unless they claim it for themselves.

In this thread, I stated the opinion that it is stupid to believe and not seek to understand so one can know how to make use of the power of Christ that is in one, and I wondered if that power is in one at all if all one does is believe.

In this thread was I questioned extensively for my stance.

And just today did I again state my position on the same topic.

Ask them, instead of generalising and tarring everyone with one brush.

Most theists that I have come across say they "believe that God exists". And most atheists say they "believe God does not exist". I, buda do not do believe!

rekinomtla:
So what is a theist now then? One who believes or one who knows God exists?

If you pay attention on here you will find that everyone defines themselves according to their own understanding. Even you say you believe! Read you saying it below!

rekinomtla:
Yep I am a theist because theism is the belief in the existence of a deity or deities.

And you acknowledge the apparent weirdness of my use of "know and knew" as seen below.

rekinomtla:
it never said it was foolish, I just said it seems weird/odd how you using the terms know/knew.

If it was not weird and odd, would you say it was weird and odd?

Do know, buda is weird and odd. Some say it is the demons in me. I do not believe that God exists. I know that God exists for me.

budaatum:

Please reki. I speak for myself and do not know the hearts of others. My definition applies to me, and not to anyone else unless they claim it for themselves.

In this thread, I stated the opinion that it is stupid to believe and not seek to understand so one can know how to make use of the power of Christ that is in one, and I wondered if that power is in one at all if all one does is believe.

In this thread was I questioned extensively for my stance.

And just today did I again state my position on the same topic.

Ask them, instead of generalising and tarring everyone with one brush.

That's fine, it just seem to me that in your initial response you were attempting to correct the definition I gave. Never realized you were just pointing out that the standard definition doesn't fit your personal definition of theism.

Most theists that I have come across say they "believe that God exists". And most atheists say they "believe God does not exist". I, buda do not do believe!

That depends how you define what it is to "believe" something.

If you pay attention on here you will find that everyone defines themselves according to their own understanding. Even you say you believe! Read you saying it below!

Yes but what I mean by "believe" seems to differ considerably from what you mean by it. For me belief and truth are conditions of knowledge, the standard view in epistemology.

And you acknowledge the apparent weirdness of my use of "know and knew" as seen below.

If it was not weird and odd, would you say it was weird and odd?

Do know, buda is weird and odd. Some say it is the demons in me. I do not believe that God exists. I know that God exists for me.

Ok.

rekinomtla:

That depends how you define what it is to "believe" something.

Yes but what I mean by "believe" seems to differ considerably from what you mean by it. For me belief and truth are conditions of knowledge, the standard view in epistemology.

Well, the standard definition of belief is:

1. an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.
2. trust, faith, or confidence in (someone or something).

So either it's used wrong, or those who believe actually do accept, trust, have faith, or are confident without proof that God exists, which sounds pretty weak to me. But I guess its a throwback to my having been an atheist. Evidence is just that much important to me, and the thought of worshipping a God I have no proof or evidence for is just laughable, to me.

There's a thread here somewhere asking what would convince me as an atheists that God exists. I'll look it up and post a link to it. I remember then I said God created me an atheist and knows what to do to make me a theist. I guess God heard me and here we are.

I do not believe things I know. I either know them or I don't. If I believe rain is falling, its because its not falling on my head or I'd know rain is falling. I do not believe my mother is my mother because I know she is my mother. I do not believe God exists because I know God exists.

Please know that this only applies to me. As you said, it "depends how you define what it is to "believe" something". My definition is above.

budaatum:
. I do not believe God exists because I know God exists.

How do you know this?

budaatum:

Well, the standard definition of belief is:

1. an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.
2. trust, faith, or confidence in (someone or something).

So either it's used wrong, or those who believe actually do accept, trust, have faith, or are confident without proof that God exists, which sounds pretty weak to me. But I guess its a throwback to my having been an atheist. Evidence is just that much important to me, and the thought of worshipping a God I have no proof or evidence for is just laughable, to me.

There's a thread here somewhere asking what would convince me as an atheists that God exists. I'll look it up and post a link to it. I remember then I said God created me an atheist and knows what to do to make me a theist. I guess God heard me and here we are.

I do not believe things I know. I either know them or I don't. If I believe rain is falling, its because its not falling on my head or I'd know rain is falling. I do not believe my mother is my mother because I know she is my mother. I do not believe God exists because I know God exists.

Please know that this only applies to me. As you said, it "depends how you define what it is to "believe" something". My definition is above.

According to the definition above you do believe in the existence of God because you accept the proposition that God exists, right?

The lack of evidence/proof part is not a necessity in the above definition.You can believe something with or without proof, it's just that people often use the term "believe" to refer to something they accept without proof.

rekinomtla:


You keep digging yourself in a bigger hole. beats me why you so desperate to not be wrong on atheism being the opposite of religion.

Those who say that Christianity is not a religion but a way of life, have you ever argued with them?

0temSapien:
Those who say that Christianity is not a religion but a way of life, have you ever argued with them?

They're wrong, christianity is a religion. Btw "otemism" is also a religion or it will become one some day.

rekinomtla:
According to the definition above you do believe in the existence of God because you accept the proposition that God exists, right?

The lack of evidence/proof part is not a necessity in the above definition.You can believe something with or without proof, it's just that people often use the term "believe" to refer to something they accept without proof.

No. I do not believe in the existence of God, nor do I accept some mere proposition. I'll quote what I said again, the relevant portion, at least.

budaatum:
I do not believe things I know. I either know them or I don't. If I believe rain is falling, its because its not falling on my head or I'd know rain is falling. I do not believe my mother is my mother because I know she is my mother. I do not believe God exists because I know God exists.

If I believe something, it is because I have no evidence and merely hold it as a belief. When I have evidence, I know.

LordReed:


How do you know this?

I know because I sought and found evidence for God that satisfied me sufficiently for me to know.

budaatum:

No. I do not believe in the existence of God, nor do I accept some mere proposition. I'll quote what I said again, the relevant portion, at least.

If I believe something, it is because I have no evidence and merely hold it as a belief. When I have evidence, I know.

Don't think the definition you cited above defines "belief" like that though, but guess we can agree to disagree.

rekinomtla:
Don't think the definition you cited above defines "belief" like that though, but guess we can agree to disagree.

As I said, "for me". I present it not as an idea anyone else must share.

budaatum:

I know because I sought and found evidence for God that satisfied me sufficiently for me to know.

Where and what is the evidence?

LordReed:


Where and what is the evidence?

My Lord! This is like you asking me to show you where my wealth is stored and how I got it!

Why should I? To what end? What makes you think any evidence I have for myself may mean anything to you?

budaatum:

My Lord! This is like you asking me to show you where my wealth is stored and how I got it!

Why should I? To what end? What makes you think any evidence I have for myself may mean anything to you?

LoL. My dear buda doest thou willst to hide the mountain? Will thou not wish me to climb too? That I may look upon the talking burning bush?

LordReed:


LoL. My dear buda doest thou willst to hide the mountain? Will thou not wish me to climb too? That I may look upon the talking burning bush?

You can not climb my mountain my Lord. And it is a common error that many make that turns them into sheepies! I take you up the mountain then lie to you that my bush is burning and is talking to me, likely after telling you you are not holy enough so must stand over there by the side while the burning bush talks to me on your behalf. And guess what I'd tell you the burning bush said? "Eat grass". "Drink bleach". "Give all your wealth to me and God will bless you"! Or have you not been reading Niflheim?

No, my Lord! You shall not be a sheepie. What you will very kindly do is find your own mountain, climb up it, see your own bush burn and hear what it has to say to you. For that which thou seek is not here or there or inside buda. The Kingdom of God is within you, my Lord.

budaatum:

You can not climb my mountain my Lord. And it is a common error that many make that turns them into sheepies! I take you up the mountain then lie to you that my bush is burning and is talking to me, likely after telling you you are not holy enough so must stand over there by the side while the burning bush talks to me on your behalf. And guess what I'd tell you the burning bush said? "Eat grass". "Drink bleach". "Give all your wealth to me and God will bless you"! Or have you not been reading Niflheim?

No, my Lord! You shall not be a sheepie. What you will very kindly do is find your own mountain, climb up it, see your own bush burn and hear what it has to say to you. For that which thou seek is not here or there or inside buda. The Kingdom of God is within you, my Lord.

Thou art blest my dear buda! Thou hast filled my soul with more than bread!

LordReed:


Thou art blest my dear buda! Thou hast filled my soul with more than bread!

You, my Lord, is, my Lord.

rekinomtla:


They're wrong, christianity is a religion. Btw "otemism" is also a religion or it will become one some day.

Otemism isn't a religion abeg. Is atheism a religion?

0temSapien:
Otemism isn't a religion abeg. Is atheism a religion?

100% they're militant satanic communists plotting the end of the world as we speak. Like you, I have also been to the spiritual realms.

rekinomtla:


100% they're militant satanic communists plotting the end of the world as we speak. Like you, I have also been to the spiritual realms.

Atheism isn't a religion. What did you come out with from the spiritual realm jare? Did you see the cage where Jehovah, Allah and many other gods of religion were caged by the gods of science?

0temSapien:
Atheism isn't a religion. What did you come out with from the spiritual realm jare? Did you see the cage where Jehovah, Allah and many other gods of religion were caged by the gods of science?

There was only one cage, Atum The Deceiver was in it.

rekinomtla:


There was only one cage, Atum The Deceiver was in it.

That's not in the bible, you know. The imprisonment of Jehovah, Allah and their likes is dully recorded in the Book of Universal History. So what are you talking about?

Read the evidence in the Book of Universal History Below:


15. Now Yahweh said, what shall my great name become in the mouths of the people of the earth if i agree that religion should be made of none effect in their minds? Shall they not curse my name forever?
16. And Eubius said, what shall happen to the history of Krishtanite which I have written? I shall rather protect it, or else I shall be found the greatest liar in history. And Mirza and Moloch and Eshu and many other gods said, the fun of the earth shall be lost when they do not call upon our names anymore.
17. And their continual weeping to the gods, being fun to us, shall be a thing of the past. No, we shall not allow this. Now while they spoke, the gods who wanted science and development in the world came and said, are you ready for the battle? And they said, we are ready.
18. And the battle began.
19. And Otem heard voices and saw many gods how they did all manner of inexplicable things. And there were vacuums, but only Otem and the gods of findings saw the vacuums.
20. And when the gods of religion had entered into the vacuums, they were not seen anymore.
21. And Otem awoke. And his pupils had broken the door of his house when he did not appear in the school that day. And they had done many things to revive him.
22. And Otem said, I saw all the things which you do to my body to rescue me. Why do you sit on my chest and blew my nose? Why do you disturb my sweet sleep? For the words which are made flesh are currently being conquered.
23. And henceforth, all sacred texts shall be seen as the things useful for refuse dump. And they shall lose the powers behind them, because all gods who insist on continual deception of the world through their threatening and motivational books are currently being held captive in vacuums.
24. Now for a space of three months, Otem continually saw how the gods stepped into vacuums and were not seen anymore.
25. Now when eighty-nine days was complete, the gods of findings began to carry the vacuums in their hands, dumping them into a larger vacuum. For the vacuums began to become visible when they had carried them. And they dumped more than two hundred and fifty nine thousand vacuums into a larger one.
26. And they said, Otem of truth, we have overcome the gods by vacuums, so go and make known all the things which you have seen. For we imagined the vacuums with our thoughts for the capture of the gods who are antihumans.
27. And in the vacuums shall they be for a thousand years. This is the spiritual cage of all gods who oppose development. And focus shall be shifted from the words in the books to the thoughts of the heads.
28. And a period shall come when the pastors and the priests of many religions shall begin to misbehave. For their gods are encaged. And the minds of many homos shall begin to go after the truth within themselves rather than the lies written in the books of lies.
29. Now Otem, we have done our own part, therefore go and do your part also. Be not lazy in the compilation and interpretation of the texts of histories which we have given to you.
30. And we shall breathe life into the history which you shall write and it shall live on in the minds of the people, rather than religious texts. And humanity shall begin to use their own brains, worshipping no god while they do good to themselves.

0temSapien:
That's not in the bible, you know. The imprisonment of Jehovah, Allah and their likes is dully recorded in the Book of Universal History. So what are you talking about?

Read the evidence in the Book of Universal History Below:


15. Now Yahweh said, what shall my great name become in the mouths of the people of the earth if i agree that religion should be made of none effect in their minds? Shall they not curse my name forever?
16. And Eubius said, what shall happen to the history of Krishtanite which I have written? I shall rather protect it, or else I shall be found the greatest liar in history. And Mirza and Moloch and Eshu and many other gods said, the fun of the earth shall be lost when they do not call upon our names anymore.
17. And their continual weeping to the gods, being fun to us, shall be a thing of the past. No, we shall not allow this. Now while they spoke, the gods who wanted science and development in the world came and said, are you ready for the battle? And they said, we are ready.
18. And the battle began.
19. And Otem heard voices and saw many gods how they did all manner of inexplicable things. And there were vacuums, but only Otem and the gods of findings saw the vacuums.
20. And when the gods of religion had entered into the vacuums, they were not seen anymore.
21. And Otem awoke. And his pupils had broken the door of his house when he did not appear in the school that day. And they had done many things to revive him.
22. And Otem said, I saw all the things which you do to my body to rescue me. Why do you sit on my chest and blew my nose? Why do you disturb my sweet sleep? For the words which are made flesh are currently being conquered.
23. And henceforth, all sacred texts shall be seen as the things useful for refuse dump. And they shall lose the powers behind them, because all gods who insist on continual deception of the world through their threatening and motivational books are currently being held captive in vacuums.
24. Now for a space of three months, Otem continually saw how the gods stepped into vacuums and were not seen anymore.
25. Now when eighty-nine days was complete, the gods of findings began to carry the vacuums in their hands, dumping them into a larger vacuum. For the vacuums began to become visible when they had carried them. And they dumped more than two hundred and fifty nine thousand vacuums into a larger one.
26. And they said, Otem of truth, we have overcome the gods by vacuums, so go and make known all the things which you have seen. For we imagined the vacuums with our thoughts for the capture of the gods who are antihumans.
27. And in the vacuums shall they be for a thousand years. This is the spiritual cage of all gods who oppose development. And focus shall be shifted from the words in the books to the thoughts of the heads.
28. And a period shall come when the pastors and the priests of many religions shall begin to misbehave. For their gods are encaged. And the minds of many homos shall begin to go after the truth within themselves rather than the lies written in the books of lies.
29. Now Otem, we have done our own part, therefore go and do your part also. Be not lazy in the compilation and interpretation of the texts of histories which we have given to you.
30. And we shall breathe life into the history which you shall write and it shall live on in the minds of the people, rather than religious texts. And humanity shall begin to use their own brains, worshipping no god while they do good to themselves.

I don't need any book, I saw it with my own spiritual eyes. Atum is caged like a zoo animal. You've been deceived by Atum the deceiver.

rekinomtla:


I don't need any book, I saw it with my own spiritual eyes. Atum is caged like a zoo animal. You've been deceived by Atum the deceiver.

Now you've resorted into lying, to the shame of your god. This is what desperation can cause. Never mind, on the 25th of August,
we'll be celebrating the 3rd Year Anniversary of the imprisonment of Jehovah your god. I hope you'll join us to celebrate it.

Currently Yahweh is in the spiritual cage for 2 years, 11 months and 6 days already.

0temSapien:
Now you've resorted into lying, to the shame of your god.

Says the guy who writes books of fiction then pretends to believe it.

[This is what desperation can cause.

You would know desperation sparked your numerous attempts to defend your definition of atheism.

Never mind, on the 25th of August,
we'll be celebrating the 3rd Year Anniversary of the imprisonment of Jehovah your god. I hope you'll join us to celebrate it.

Currently Yahweh is in the spiritual cage for 2 years, 11 months and 6 days already.

I take the book of universal history for what it is - fiction. Unless you break free from the deception of Atum the deceiver, you shall never see the light.

Somewhere it is written that the Light is Atum!

budaatum:
Somewhere it is written that the Light is Atum!

Atum is a false god currently caged in the spiritual realm.