Turks:
Kindly send a Whatsapp message. 08026360598
Thank you.

I think I am currently in ur group. we once chat on whatsapp b4. I just discover dat now

Dearest Emmaachile and Turks,

I am actually working on a program and it warrants poultry with vegetable farming. A friend recommended this thread and I must say you guys nailed it. What I appreciated most is emphasis on withdrawal of antibiotics at the right time. Infact, when I checked most of the methods you preach, they are standard in accordance with excellent farming style. For example, I read where Turks explained why crumbles should be used for chicks instead of mash. But many really don't pay attention to such details. And with Emmachile's analysis of different feeding pattern, how each breed responds to feeding habit was cool (if selling chicken parts separately after processing, one needs to choose the right breed to make high profit, and breast weight is something to look very well into). And many still don't realise the importance of lighthning. I read where Turks mentioned that too. But the truth is that all these principles have been documented by experts, and people just don't pay attention to details. Anyway, it's really nice what you guys did here.

Next level should be optimum production by monitoring humidity, temperature, and having the right air speed (ventilation) inside pen so you can achieve 3.8 to 4 kg at the time specified in their performance objectives booklets.

I always tell people that knowing the concept of what one is doing is powerful. And special thank to Lahify. Mehn! There are still many smart guys around.

I told my friend that poultry is actually straight forward. The main challenge is to curb theft. Though, might not be as profitable as veggie, but it's just straight forward. Anyone can do it excellently. Profit is sure. Mortality can be zero.

Good work. And may God bless you all. Amen!

Great!

aysnoopy:


I think I am currently in ur group. we once chat on whatsapp b4.
I just discover dat now

Apt!

God bless you too sir

Pistotita:
Dearest Emmaachile and Turks,

I am actually working on a program and it warrants poultry with vegetable farming. A friend recommended this thread and I must say you guys nailed it. What I appreciated most is emphasis on withdrawal of antibiotics at the right time. Infact, when I checked most of the methods you preach, they are standard in accordance with excellent farming style. For example, I read where Turks explained why crumbles should be used for chicks instead of mash. But many really don't pay attention to such details. And with Emmachile's analysis of different feeding pattern, how each breed responds to feeding habit was cool (if selling chicken parts separately after processing, one needs to choose the right breed to make high profit, and breast weight is something to look very well into). And many still don't realise the importance of lighthning. I read where Turks mentioned that too. But the truth is that all these principles have been documented by experts, and people just don't pay attention to details. Anyway, it's really nice what you guys did here.

Next level should be optimum production by monitoring humidity, temperature, and having the right air speed (ventilation) inside pen so you can achieve 3.8 to 4 kg at the time specified in their performance objectives booklets.

I always tell people that knowing the concept of what one is doing is powerful. And special thank to Lahify. Mehn! There are still many smart guys around.

I told my friend that poultry is actually straight forward. The main challenge is to curb theft. Though, might not be as profitable as veggie, but it's just straight forward. Anyone can do it excellently. Profit is sure. Mortality can be zero.

Good work. And may God bless you all. Amen!

http://middlebrookfarms.com.ng/hqcp.html

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* Can be used as a high energy Starter Pack or as an ingredient in high quality feed formulation for monogastrics like Poultry, Fish, Pigs.

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Pistotita:
Dearest Emmaachile and Turks,

I am actually working on a program and it warrants poultry with vegetable farming. A friend recommended this thread and I must say you guys nailed it. What I appreciated most is emphasis on withdrawal of antibiotics at the right time. Infact, when I checked most of the methods you preach, they are standard in accordance with excellent farming style. For example, I read where Turks explained why crumbles should be used for chicks instead of mash. But many really don't pay attention to such details. And with Emmachile's analysis of different feeding pattern, how each breed responds to feeding habit was cool (if selling chicken parts separately after processing, one needs to choose the right breed to make high profit, and breast weight is something to look very well into). And many still don't realise the importance of lighthning. I read where Turks mentioned that too. But the truth is that all these principles have been documented by experts, and people just don't pay attention to details. Anyway, it's really nice what you guys did here.

Next level should be optimum production by monitoring humidity, temperature, and having the right air speed (ventilation) inside pen so you can achieve 3.8 to 4 kg at the time specified in their performance objectives booklets.

I always tell people that knowing the concept of what one is doing is powerful. And special thank to Lahify. Mehn! There are still many smart guys around.

I told my friend that poultry is actually straight forward. The main challenge is to curb theft. Though, might not be as profitable as veggie, but it's just straight forward. Anyone can do it excellently. Profit is sure. Mortality can be zero.

Good work. And may God bless you all. Amen!

Good morning sir do you have a thread I'm planning on starting a vegetable farm by January.

@Pistotita

Welcome to poultry thread. Poultry can be very profitable if you learn and know the basics.

First thing I tell people, never raise above 10 weeks. Get very good feed and day old and you could even get 2kg in 33 days.

Prebiotics, probotics and enzymes could even make one avoid drugs all together.

I'm curious about the F2 generation of these broilers. Has any tried to mate them? How was their growth and weight gain? Why not just mate/cross them instead of buying a day old parent stock, which by the way go for #1900 with a minimum order of 500(way to frustrate the local farmer) for Pete's sake I ain't trying to start up a hatchery.
I have a strong quest to bypass these thieves of a hatchery with a much lower cost possible

Cc:
Emmaachile, turks

RichieMichie:
I'm curious about the F2 generation of these broilers. Has any tried to mate them? How was their growth and weight gain? Why not just mate/cross them instead of buying a day old parent stock, which by the way go for #1900 with a minimum order of 500(way to frustrate the local farmer) for Pete's sake I ain't trying to start up a hatchery.
I have a strong quest to bypass these thieves of a hatchery with a much lower cost possible

Cc:
Emmaachile, turks

F2 will produce something different from the parent.

EMMAACHILE:

F2 will produce something different from the parent.

I'm really curious to see the different
I will try mating 2 different strains ( Cobb and Ross) to see the result.

I guess I should take my genetics and breeding class more serious

EMMAACHILE:
@Pistotita

Welcome to poultry thread. Poultry can be very profitable if you learn and know the basics.

First thing I tell people, never raise above 10 weeks. Get very good feed and day old and you could even get 2kg in 33 days.

Prebiotics, probotics and enzymes could even make one avoid drugs all together.

I love people who see possibilities. Yeah! You are actually right. Looking at the Performance Objectives of Ross308 (could not attach a good image to this post)

On day 33, it should weigh 2041grams (2.041kg). So, you are right. And the males put on more weight than this. Of course, not the exact figures in the booklet one must achieve in real life, but those are good guide.

On day 43 (6 wks + 1 day), it's 3015 gram. Exactly 3.015kg. And the interesting discovery is that this is the highest point of daily weight gain. It starts dropping from day 44. Therefore, one may target this. Depending on the cost of feeding them, it seems, the most efficient point to maximize profit if looking at daily weight gain is this day.

In the 10th wk, which is day 70 you feel one should not cross, it should be 5 250 grams = 5.25kg. Of course one needs to check weights of the parts and check with market to really understand how to proceed. The task is to know if whole life or selling in parts makes more sense here . It makes sense to grow up to this point if breast price is high. It makes sense despite daily gain had gone down to 66grams if one gets the calculation right. It's called profit optimization.

The resources available to work with are available. It is amazing how poultry management has been structured and analysed accurately for growers. So, one needs to use his/her brain for optimum production.

30kg/sqm stocking density is recommended for tropics with closed ventilation system, and 16 - 20kg/sqm for open sides system. These are amazing. I guess we still use lesser density in Nigeria and most growers don't come close to optimum production. What is your opinion about this? And I doubt organic can be done with such high density. Even some "conc" organic people will say they don't want grain fed but pastures fed birds. (I joined them recently...lol.) So, organic is really another ball game entirely in my own opinion.

I agree with you that prebiotic, probiotics, enzymes and vitamins are good for them. They will aid fast digestion which will push up their weight. This is just too straight forward if one follows the instructions accurately. This is "high way" on top speed to success. These creatures will definitely grow excellently with LAB and some other strains for their gut.

Yes, you are right. Success is getting these basics. They are what I always call "concepts". There is no way one digs deep into these details and not make it. It's not just possible.

Please, could you address the following:

1. Going by 3 sqft per bird stocking density mostly use by Nigerian growers, and growing up to 2kg, this is around 7.17kg/sqm density. How do you compare it with the minimum of 16kg/sqm recommend for Ross308 in out climatic environment. Why are people going so low with stocking density even with inorganic method?

2. Do you see majority of Nigerian broiler growers achieving number 1 above in the nearest future? If not, what are the challenges?

3. Are good prebiotics, probiotics, enzymes, etc not available to achieve number 1 above? Or is it that it is out of reach of growers? I think I saw a website you posted where these materials are bought. It was my friend who suggested one, and I saw that you use it too. Either Miadiason or Oregano stim. I checked their content, and I was like waooo. Very nice products. But my fear has always been inferior products in Nigeria. Importers launch into the market with good quality, and after they have established themselves, they reduce the active ingredients inside. Lol. Naija!

That's all for now. If I have more, I will share or ask here.

Cc: Turks, Lahify,

@Pistotita

1. If management is top notch with all equipment like automated bell drinker or nipple, very good feed and frequent changing of liter. All these can be achieved.

2. I don't think so as most poultry farmers are a little ignorant here. Larger farms should be able to achieve this.

3. Probotics, Prebiotics, enzymes are available but only large farms utilize this as they seem to be more knowledgeable than the small holder.

Many Nigerian farmer seem to have one belief. Starve their chicks to 14 weeks then sell off. I see this as a pound foolish, penny wise kind of approach.

EMMAACHILE:
@Pistotita

1. If management is top notch with all equipment like automated bell drinker or nipple, very good feed and frequent changing of liter. All these can be achieved.

2. I don't think so as most poultry farmers are a little ignorant here. Larger farms should be able to achieve this.

3. Probotics, Prebiotics, enzymes are available but only large farms utilize this as they seem to be more knowledgeable than the small holder.

Many Nigerian farmer seem to have one belief. Starve their chicks to 14 weeks then sell off. I see this as a pound foolish, penny wise kind of approach.

You are my kind of person. Have you ever noticed that not until you put your mind in doing something, or buying something, you start seeing it around? For example, you put your mind to buy a particular interior decorating material, or a kind of not so common car. When your mind was not there, it would look scarce. But the day you start searching, you start wondering how fast some guys can be. Even with ideas. One thinks he is the only one thinking in a direction, but as one drives in the city, one will be shocked with the magnificiency and complexity of the human mind. Everyday I look deeper to search, this nairaland is filled with extremely intelligent Nigerians from all parts of this planet. Innovation is doing better what someone else had done. Amazing! But what I have noticed is that the influence of cutting down costs of production in every aspect our businesses has reduced this country to her own shadow. I was searching and I realised China has tagged those cages sold as Nigerian, Kenyan, Uganda broiler and layers cages. I laughed and couldn't control myself. You may check alibaba and aliexpress to confirm it. And they are expensive. Our economy is not doing us any good.


As regards frequent changing of litters, I realised the importance of keeping down the emission rate of ammonia and some specific gases. There are requirements. When one knows the requirements, it's just extremely easy to do excellently well. Consultancy jobs are the best in Africa if one gets good connection with government. And these things are already documented by various scientists. It's not funny how we have so many brilliant Nigerians; and at the same time many are non challant towards details. You soon find them complaining of this epistle. It is not a funny issue, my brother. Working with such people is extremely frustrating. Frequent changing of litters, is the hard route in my opinion, though, one can start with it and improve. As long as one can consistently emit the range recommended for poultry best farming practice based on the particular breed, it is possible to re-use litters for several cycles. I was reading about a farm which was on the 6th cycle of 49 days for each cycle. Meaning the farm had not removed the litter for over 255 days (8.5 months). Is this not really worth it? Labor expense was drastically cut down. I like the 2 feed additives you advised all poultry farmers to use. Not only good for the gut, but they reduce the water content in their poo, thereby reducing the chance of infection taking over the pen. I will rather use the right quantity as specified by the manufacturer than hold back because I want to reduce the cost of production.

Not only poultry farmers are ignorant, but people who are not detailed. I read about a debate on the influence of feed protein content on birds' feather in another thread. It's very useful how you posted a reseach paper to prove your case (I don't know how to do such in the midst of debate because I get easily tired of proving my cases. Just so many issues are wrong with our society that one becomes the bad guy if one cannot over look them, and it's funny how they argue passionately defending ignorancy). It's just logical, when human being eats good food, nails and hairs flourishes (assuming we are all modified breeds like these birds). So, when farmers pay attention to details, they just will not want to use cheap methods. Funny many still believe starving them to reduce the cost of production is wise. I agree with you. It is gabbage in, gabbage out.

I have seen some Web links for sourcing enzymes, prebiotics, and probiotics, but are there ones that are recommended with quality products? If yes, perhaps, one can buy from them. Please, kindly recommend one or two. Organic farmers should better pay more attention to it. Even inorganic farmers too.

Amazing concepts and basics you guys have loaded in this thread. No excuse for any farmer. Yet, we still see new threads daily begging for direction. People just don't want to study. They want someone who comes online to give them robotic direction. I think mods here should borrow the method of Justwise in the travel section, and close new threads with such requests and put the links of threads like this there. I went through the pain of reading from page 1. Hoping to catch up soon.

Probotics and Organic acids could reduce or even eliminate use of antibiotics

1. Orego-stim mostly used as digester and for dry faeces with reduced ammonia.

2. Orego plus is similar

3. Turbo tox is a combination of both probotics and organic acids. It's function is broader including working as an antibiotic replacer.

4. Miadiasan is like Orego-stim.

5. Bacflora is a prebiotic, probotic and organic acid enhancer.

Most can be sourced from Afrimash. One note is that combining all these will not work well. It's best used with feed milling yourself or using a very good commercial feed. Most commercial feeds here are not too good. They are produced for the masses.
I just ordered some products like concentrates from Germany to test and compared with what we have here.

The above all work by occupying the gut wall of the chicks and not giving space or room to gram negative bacteria lie ecoli and staph to attach to this wall. This invariably leads to flushing out of the bad bacteria.

A prebiotic work by supplying the gut with fiber starch which ecoli and Co attach themselves and then secreted out through the faeces.

EMMAACHILE:
Probotics and Organic acids could reduce or even eliminate use of antibiotics

1. Orego-stim mostly used as digester and for dry faeces with reduced ammonia.

2. Orego plus is similar

3. Turbo tox is a combination of both probotics and organic acids. It's function is broader including working as an antibiotic replacer.

4. Miadiasan is like Orego-stim.

5. Bacflora is a prebiotic, probotic and organic acid enhancer.

Most can be sourced from Afrimash. One note is that combining all these will not work well. It's best used with feed milling yourself or using a very good commercial feed. Most commercial feeds here are not too good. They are produced for the masses.
I just ordered some products like concentrates from Germany to test and compared with what we have here.

The above all work by occupying the gut wall of the chicks and not giving space or room to gram negative bacteria lie ecoli and staph to attach to this wall. This invariably leads to flushing out of the bad bacteria.

A prebiotic work by supplying the gut with fiber starch which ecoli and Co attach themselves and then secreted out through the faeces.

I agree with you. Same principle we should follow as humans. I take prebiotics with my meals. It's the first time I read someone calls them fibre starch, and that is truly what they are. I usually call them resistant starch. Lol. Apart from the function you gave, they are sugar which feed the good bacteria in gut, thereby enhancing rapid population of the probiotics you include in the feed. Digestion is rapid, and they bulk up very fast. It's very essential from day 1 so that their gut can be developed, the microorganisms population will starting building from day 1, and staph, ecoli, strep, etc can be flushed out of their system easily with the way you have explained. Excellent approach.

My concern about milling feed is contamination in many mills around. I don't trust those guys with good hygiene. Another issue is that inferior raw materials are too much in circulation. Grains are potential poisons these days. The task is to hunt for Alfasafe maize. I got a farmer who claims he produces good grain. I'm taking a sample to the laboratory next week by God's grace. Even Aflatoxin affects soya beans too, but I don't think Alfasafe can be used for soyabean. Though, I may be wrong. There are still other toxins in grains apart from the one I have mentioned.

Bro, I am sure many poultry farmers are suffering the awkward usage of herbicides and insecticides for grains production. Those chemicals in the grains are toxins which are dangerous apart from antibiotics. And they reduce the potency of the added additives in feed. This is where all the additives you recommended can help. Better to use them with poor grains, than not to. But getting quality grains definitely give better result.

Yesterday, I asked why growers in Nigeria don't get close to what their foreign counterparts get. I strongly believe that grain farmers are killing animal husbandry businesses in Nigeria. And the irony part is that these toxins are passed to humans too. That's the cycle. People who are serious with their health in the western world don't even eat birds fed with grains anymore. lol. Some people think it stops at not using antibiotics or withdrawing usage at the right time, of course not. Growers must be cautious of where they source grains used for their feed. It's why pastured fed birds are extremely expensive abroad. Free Range is not a big concern to some people (including me), but what the birds are fed with.

Of course, commercial production should be with grains. And I salute your courage for taking it further by importing concentrates from Germany. I continue saying it, when one is grounded in his field, he will start importing raw materials. Why? Nigeria is filled with junks. Importers are always against production. All their moves are always detrimental to optimum production. My brother, that Germany you are buying from is a nice place. I import many of my products from Germany too. China? Not me. Lol. Except I buy raw materials from other places like Germany, US, or Canada and move them to China to safe cost of production. Or I am very sure of the seller in China.

You are lucky that you can buy the concentrates in smaller quantity. At times, quality products are sold in tons. Importers thenafter dilute with inferior materials and repack them in the original bags. So, to get such product, I buy in tons too. And then, start hunting for like minds to share the cost with me when buying again. It's about trust. I do not import and sell to anyone at the cost price too. I will rather knock the fellow off with the price. But if the fellow decides to share in the risk by providing fund while we are ordering, of course, it's always extremely cheap. When like minds work together, they share the burden of the huge risks they want to take. Not one person holding on, and asking me to go ahead, and that when it lands in Nigeria, he will buy at the cost price. So, I am the "mumu". He should go buy the inferior products. I will rather keep mine for many months and use gradually. Lol!

Truly, I understand the road you are following. It is tough, but it's worth it at the end of the day. My plan is to buy my milling machine so I don't have to deal with any contamination in the mills around. You can put it into consideration too. Hygiene is at the bottom of the list of most Nigerians. After my pilots, and I see it is worth doing, I will commission farmers to grow grains continuously for my birds, and supervise the production process in accordance with international standard. AlfaSafe is a must. To produce optimally in Nigeria requires additional steps. So, I am going to check the whole production chain and ask myself at the end of the day if it's truly worth it. I hope so because I am seriously thinking of becoming a force to reckon with in the business.

Again, it's lovely to know there are people like you in this Nairaland. Honestly, I am so proud of you. Keep it up sir.

Why some of us reduced our posting on the poultry thread including whatsapp groups is because of some unnecessary arguments. Someone will tell you i have been farming for donkey years. Invariably telling you, your opinions are wrong. Imagine the arguments on good feathering in broilers! lol. My wife told me i had plenty time for arguments.

If you look at all livestock, the fastest is poultry. Under 6 weeks, you are already in the market. But those with donkey years will argue that you have to raise for 90 days to make a killing in the market. If you feed your birds well, you should get minimum of over 3 kg under 9 weeks, with some getting above 4kg under 9 weeks.

The secrets are obvious; Good day old chick, Good feed, multivitamins, management and drug schedule. I could easily get a standard operating procedure (SOP) to automate the process especially as regards feed and the relevant addictives. It wont be cheap but the results are there to show. You could be cycling out every 33 days.

I will put my next batch online here to see the results of using the relevant materials and automating to a large scale. Some of us may go fully into commercial poultry farming but prefer trees because of the ease of time and higher scaling since the market is mainly export oriented. If tomorrow, i leave Nigeria, the trees will always be there.

EMMAACHILE:
Why some of us reduced our posting on the poultry thread including whatsapp groups is because of some unnecessary arguments. Someone will tell you i have been farming for donkey years. Invariably telling you, your opinions are wrong. Imagine the arguments on good feathering in broilers! lol. My wife told me i had plenty time for arguments.

Lol. And they argue passionately and aggressively that they are doing practical. Which fo.olish practical? Who has jumping into such "mo.ron.ic" practical help? Is it not theory and procedures already documented you updated yourself with? I don't need to see the pictures or videos of your farm before I know you are doing well. Bouncing to the drawing board is not in the dictionary of such people. And using the drawing board is about reevaluating ones style. Meaning that one leaves the practical aspect, and return to theory to see the elements missing. But as long as they cannot do it, and they don't have the capacity to do it, it is impossible for anyone to do it. No one can do what one cannot visualize. Photocopying machines don't produce better images than the original. Always limited to a lower level of the original. And such people fight with everything inside them. My brother, poverty is powerful. It is a stronghold that hooks for a long time. My destiny rejects poverty. My future and generations coming reject poverty in totality. I sp.it on poverty mentality. Like you wife advised, it is better to avoid them. This is why I don't meet every Tom and Jerry, or invite anyone I don't know to my place, or to my farms. And from this day, I have absolutely no time for such debates. There is time for everything. I have dealt with some of them, and I am done with them, not to even respond to any comment from them again. That's the way to go.

If you look at all livestock, the fastest is poultry. Under 6 weeks, you are already in the market. But those with donkey years will argue that you have to raise for 90 days to make a killing in the market. If you feed your birds well, you should get minimum of over 3 kg under 9 weeks, with some getting above 4kg under 9 weeks.

The secrets are obvious; Good day old chick, Good feed, multivitamins, management and drug schedule. I could easily get a standard operating procedure (SOP) to automate the process especially as regards feed and the relevant addictives. It wont be cheap but the results are there to show. You could be cycling out every 33 days.

Exactly. This is my approach. I might consider moving mine from 49 days to 33 days also. Instead of producing 5,000 batches and wait for the "old skool" 9 weeks .....lol, 4 cycles of 100 chicks batches is a good start. That's cashing out N30k - N50k or more every week depending on how one can low the cost of production. Even one can enter mini hatching to cut the cost down drastically. These are the possibilities I saw. Like I said, we think in the same direction. But how and why? One cannot dig deep and not think optimally. And a mini backyard can achieve this. This is like making N120k - N200k every month without serving any master 8am to 6pm daily. But inefficiency cannot achieve it. Just 400 - 450 chicks of different growth stages raking in N120k - N200k profit every month. The beauty is that it is at home. No hustling on bike inside forest "A go die".

I will put my next batch online here to see the results of using the relevant materials and automating to a large scale. Some of us may go fully into commercial poultry farming but prefer trees because of the ease of time and higher scaling since the market is mainly export oriented. If tomorrow, i leave Nigeria, the trees will always be there.

The right way to go is automation. And that's exactly my plan. Obviously, it will not be cheap, but it's worth it. You just have to import the equipment for it, else, you are looking for trouble if you approach a Nigerian fabricator. You know it is easier to get after sales service from designers abroad than from a Naija designer. You send him message and he abandons it for good one month. the next time he replies is "how far?". Very terrible attitude. You run after him/her like those auto mechanics. Very useless people. They always frustrate. Profit making to them is being mischievous. I was interacting with an apprentice and he said when he's working and the customer is watching (they believe customers learn by watching them so they cannot be mischievous another time), he stylishly splashes black engine oil on the person. His boss comes out shouting at him, slapping him, while they start begging the customer. And move him/her to one side to stay away from watching him. Of course, when the customer leaves, the boss compensates him nicely for the slaps. Can you imagine? Very mischievous people. Please, stay out of buying your automated equipment from Naija. Leave "Buy Naija, Grow Naija" alone in this area.

Of course trees are extremely more profitable and easier to manage from far. Yes, I realised you are grounded in it with your contributions to my agricultural investment thread. I have some myself too. And I keep expanding frequently.

Every person who is like you ends up leaving Nigeria. It's just obvious the system is toxic for such people. Red tapes, hatred, insults, backbiting, "beefing", etc are all what every innovative Nigerian receives. And the worst is setting online traps for the downfall of such person. So, I understand all what you have written.

Always good to read your responses. I don't want to take over your thread. Hmmmm...We may turn this thread into a section of deep scientific poultry management, but it may be just 3 to 5 people making comments. So, allow me return to the back stage while readers achieve their goals through this thread.

Once again, I thank you and others doing wonderful job here. God bless you all. Amen!

PapalsBull:
Good eh, good

Been away for sometimes now.... Week 26, 92% production

Please, I need the following info:

At age 49, what are the:
1. Average height of Ross and Cobb
2. Highest height of Ross and Cobb

At age 70, what are the:
1. Average height of Ross and Cobb
2. Highest height of Ross and Cobb

Well done Guys,This thread is

PapalsBull:


Been away for sometimes now.... Week 26, 92% production

*
Good one. You must be doing some wonderful job.

Pistotita:
Please, I need the following info:

At age 49, what are the:
1. Average height of Ross and Cobb
2. Highest height of Ross and Cobb

At age 70, what are the:
1. Average height of Ross and Cobb
2. Highest height of Ross and Cobb

Some of us dont have this exact info on heoght but you can be sure there are about 1.5-2x the height of the common Abor Acre.
Both species are very good for open market sales due to their heights. The Cobb is known for broad breast chest.

As Per weight if done well and all things per equal,
1. 3kg at 49 days
2. 4kg+ at 70 days

EMMAACHILE:

Some of us dont have this exact info on heoght but you can be sure there are about 1.5-2x the height of the common Abor Acre.
Both species are very good for open market sales due to their heights. The Cobb is known for broad breast chest.

As Per weight if done well and all things per equal,
1. 3kg at 49 days
2. 4kg+ at 70 days

Thanks for the information. Obviously, Cobb and Ross are the choices for open market. I agree with you. As regards selling in parts, I am not sure why you feel Cobb is better. Is broadness a criterion which affects price positively? Or the weight? I feel broadness is not useful. It's the weight which matters more. I noticed you used 2014 editions of both documentations to prove your case some months ago on this thread. And I was not convinced enough because of recent areas I have looked into. So, I started searching for recent documentations, and I realised in 2018 edition, the feed formular for Ross was tweaked, and the breast % went up. So, I am searching for the recent performance analysis of Cobb too. You can check.

My brother, it's why I move very deep into research while doing pilots. My first pilot is just management, but I am working right now on tweaking it for optimum profit. I believe you understand where I am moving towards. Hmmm. So, I was kinda thinking seriously; might be, Turks has seen this when he insisted that Ross 308 is still his choice.

I am not saying either of you is right or wrong, but these "oyinbos" are deceptive. lol. I will continue my search to really get the real gene for their grandparents. At times, they use almost same breeds, and tweak them differently just to get different patents. So, my suspicious is that Cobb was beginning to get a better percentage of the breast market share, and it was time to tweak Ross. And it was just the feed formular that was changed. Booom! The breast % went up.

I started thinking why Abhor Acre Plus is short, but has the same weight with these two. So, where is this breed storing it's massive weight? I hope its not the head, feet or skin. lol...Cos those are useless. I have not really checked well. I will. It really depends on the prices of these parts that will show one which breed and feed formular to use. If drumsticks and leg parts are what my market research shows me to produce more, I will pick a breed which has the highest %. And push up my calcium level in the feed.

Very funny that males generally have more live weight than female, and growers want more males when selling live chickens. But selling in parts is a different ball game. It's like the males also grow beards (more feathers) like humans which is additional useless weight.....lol. And after processing, female may have upper hand just like humans. The average arms and thighs of females are massive when both human males and female feed very well, but going to gym is another ball game. Again, I realised that the girls are like human. lol... Female always have bigger breast than the males. Hope you get what I am trying to say, and how I will choose what to produce with the influence of market. So, if I were to do this well right now, I would separate males from females and tweak my feeding formular for optimum production. OK, I have not considered the prices of organs. Ooops! It's a real job to tweak it very well.

My conclusion is that market dictates what to produce, and how to produce. They are all in the same category like you and Turks always say if one looks at it with a broad view. But, it seems Ross has the better breast for now. Until I check it very well again.

I am so sorry if readers find what I have written here so complicated. Not my intention, but I just want to put it here for any advance farmer who can think along my lines. Emmaachile, please, review all I wrote here again, and see how you can adjust your production. I'm really impressed that you are taking the bold step of importing original feed from the manufacturer directly. So, before you conclude, they all these points into consideration too sir.

1. Interpreting researches and documentations matters a lot. We interprete them differently.

2. Market Research first. It shows one how to achieve optimum production and production.

OK. I really need to allow people drop their usual comments here. Cos I can start writing as my pilot is going on. Again, I'm so impressed with what I read on this thread. I find it hard to let go good stuff.

Please, don't vex. Everyone please, I beg you all. My last question here.. (maybe I will come again....lol...but I promise to not earlier than a week....lol). Please, what simple mechanism can be adopted for auto-feeding (I mean the feed and not water, since water is straight forward). Have you seen any affordable auto feeder one can use for a small farm of 1,000 to 5,000 birds. Or maybe even 100 birds in a cage. Any?

RichieMichie:

I'm really curious to see the different
I will try mating 2 different strains ( Cobb and Ross) to see the result.

I guess I should take my genetics and breeding class more serious

Its very rare to see a broiler cock mate with hen natural 'cos of their weight. Any contrary opinion?

femora007:
Its very rare to see a broiler cock mate with hen natural 'cos of their weight. Any contrary opinion?

I have seen some mate.

femora007:
Its very rare to see a broiler cock mate with hen natural 'cos of their weight. Any contrary opinion?

Artificial insemination will do the work. Before male broilers reach sexual maturity they would have become too heavy to mount. If u want to use them for mating u have to feed them like layers with growers mash so they won't have too much fat

@Pistotita
The Cobb and the Ross are termed face of the modern broilers. The tweak should be the Ross 708 with a largest breast size. The one i know from hatcheries in Nigeria are Ross 308.
The new version for the Cobb 500 is the Cobb 700. You cant go wrong with both but the Ross needs better nutrition to reach target. Meaning the Cobb can manage on poor feeds as compared to the Ross.

Arbor Acre is the regular strain in Nigeria but not the most common universally. I guess since Chi has the grandparent stock, other hatcheries simply got their parent stock from there.

RichieMichie:

Artificial insemination will do the work. Before male broilers reach sexual maturity they would have become too heavy to mount. If u want to use them for mating u have to feed them like layers with growers mash so they won't have too much fat

Noboby will waste their time with inseminating commercial day old chicks. The offsprings will never be true to type. To get a true to type, you need the breeder parent stock farm.

To get a parent stock in Nigeria should be a minimum of 1,500 birds from CHI at least for example. These farms must protect their investment

I’ve seen loads mate.

femora007:
Its very rare to see a broiler cock mate with hen natural 'cos of their weight. Any contrary opinion?

Not if they’re allowed to free range or not fed intensively. How do you think broiler breeders get their eggs?

RichieMichie:

Artificial insemination will do the work. Before male broilers reach sexual maturity they would have become too heavy to mount. If u want to use them for mating u have to feed them like layers with growers mash so they won't have too much fat

Not up to 10,000 birds Chief. 1500 birds is the standard. At least that if the AA+ from CHI.

EMMAACHILE:

Noboby will waste their time with inseminating commercial day old chicks. The offsprings will never be true to type. To get a true to type, you need the breeder parent stock farm.

To get a parent stock in Nigeria should be a minimum of 10,000 birds. These farms must protect their investment

Turks:
Not up to 10,000 birds Chief. 1500 birds is the standard. At least that if the AA+ from CHI.

Noted. Corrected. I wanted to write and even thought it's 1000 birds. Any other parent stock sold in Nigeria outside Chi?