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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Who Created God? (27687 Views)
If Nothing Can Exist Without A Creator, So What Created God? / What created God ? A Response To Atheist Question / Who Created God? - An Invalid Question (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Who Created God? by tintingz(m): 11:42am On Oct 02, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3: As there ever been a demonstration of something that exist itself? Because we can as well claim some other things existed themselves like the universe, energy. |
Re: Who Created God? by tintingz(m): 11:43am On Oct 02, 2019 |
Gracealone: Do you have evidence for this or you read it in a book? |
Re: Who Created God? by tintingz(m): 11:46am On Oct 02, 2019 |
freshaboki: This is non-sequitur fallacy, you didn't address the op premise. Even if we for assumption sake agree near death proves a higher being, does this answer the op question? |
Re: Who Created God? by Martinez39(m): 11:55am On Oct 02, 2019 |
@shadeyinka 1) Do you believe that werewolves, vampires, and unicorns exist? 2) Do you believe that there is a rainbow coloured indestructible and immortal elephant forever sleeping in the centre of planet neptune? Please, give answers to these two questions. 3 Likes |
Re: Who Created God? by LordReed(m): 12:10pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX: Right on the money. 1 Like |
Re: Who Created God? by JhayJoe: 1:49pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
The human mind is meant to understand and believe anything that he can see,feel,hear,touch. So the belief in God does not fall in any of these categories but wants humans to take a leap of faith and that leap of faith is the problem. How can I fall when i don't know if i'll fall on something/someone or i'll just fall flat on my ass. As for me i believe that Dinosaurs existed,that the Big Bang happened,that aliens exist and that the mental can affect the physical and i also believe in evolution. 1 Like |
Re: Who Created God? by jamesid29(m): 2:15pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:Hmmm, everything you just wrote is either wrong or missed the point, but it is well. Enjoy the rest of your week... |
Re: Who Created God? by Nobody: 2:51pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
jamesid29:True. Except I didn't answer your question in this post. Should probably look through your mentions or see my response to your buddy Enjoy the rest of your week...I will. Thanks ![]() |
Re: Who Created God? by shadeyinka(m): 3:51pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
TheArranger:There is no section for Atheists. Check the attached screenshot. The division is this: Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion Under Religion, there is Islam for Muslims. No section for Christians No section for Atheists All religions apart from Islam is bundled up under Religion. (Specifically, seun says: "Share your faith and belief in God or higher powers here" ![]() BACK to the main thrust of discuss: 1. All I have shown with my arguments is that "an intelligent SOURCE" of the universe seem to exist. 2. You can give this SOURCE any name you like (a name is just a NOUN). I call the SOURCE God, because it fits the description of God. 3. None here had been able to show the fallacy of my postulates nor advance a counter argument against my thrust of view. 4. If by postulates and reasoning I presented my points, it would take far more than mere assertions to present a different position (this seem to be your position) on this thread. Let's forget the name (God: as a noun) and ask the logical/Scientific questions: 1. Is there a real possibility of a non-material SOURCE for the universe? 2. If there is a source/sources, would it be a mere Force/Substance or a Personality? My arguments has been to help you reason out the answers to these two questions using readily available Scientific information. 2 Likes
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Re: Who Created God? by shadeyinka(m): 3:57pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
JhayJoe:You have not seen, feel, heard or touched the Big Bang, Evolution, Aliens. Could this not be faith? Can you prove that everything not Scientifically verified is a fallacy? |
Re: Who Created God? by TheArranger(m): 4:00pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
SHADEYINKA As you can see i'm not bothering to quote you cause i don't have time for trolls. If you think the fallacies of your postulations haven't been exposed over and over again, you must be the most deluded or dishonest human on this planet. Like i said, there is no use arguing with you. It's very clear you want to be right by any means necessary. I have one question though, if there is no section on NL for atheists / christians to gather, then what goes on in the Non-Christian / Christian chatbox threads that can be seen when you click Religion from the main page? |
Re: Who Created God? by budaatum: 4:10pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
shadeyinka:If there was a source or not, we can not know since it happened way long before we came into existence and became able to write down what we thought at the time. But those who have studied the evolution of human thought would know that everything we come up with is a myth; no one heard a big bang or God say "Let there be", and thankfully, that is not the concern of God but the concern of 'believers', both the theist type and the "unbelievers", while those in Christ are off doing His Will. 1 Like |
Re: Who Created God? by shadeyinka(m): 4:41pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
XxSabrinaxX:Thanks for the lecture on the definition of Atheism. Unfortunately, I wish you had checked what you wrote as per your belief and your know A reference is attached in attachment 1 Compare with what I wrote in attachment 2 You have no basis (Yee I got the spelling right this time) for your lecture. I only used your own description of what makes you an agnostic Atheist. XxSabrinaxX:Your desire to respond is clouding your judgement of facts and comprehension. I didn't propose the argument of "my experience is real to me therefore it is a proof!" Rather, I told you that even if my experiences are real to me, it doesn't hold any waters (and I used the example of Big Foot to buttress it). That's why Science, Reason and Logic is my way of dealing with Atheists. See attachment 3. XxSabrinaxX: You speak good English, so I don't know why you deliberately ignore the fact that cosmos is a synonym for universe. If the universe is a subset of the cosmos, what is the size of the cosmos? What else is contained in the cosmos apart from our universe? Please check out Webster's Dictionary definition of cosmos: 1cosmos nouncos·mos\ˈkäz-məs, senses 1 & 2 also -ˌmōs, -ˌmäs\ : the universe especially when it is understood as an ordered system : a tall plant that has usually white, pink, or red flowers Full Definition 1 a : universe b (1) : an orderly harmonious systematic universe — compare chaos (2) : order, harmony 2 : a complex orderly self-inclusive system 3 plural cosmos\ˈkäz-məs, -məz\ also cos·mos·es\ˈkäz-mə-səz\ [New Latin, genus name, from Greek kosmos] : any of a genus (Cosmos) of tropical American composite herbs; especially : a widely cultivated tall annual (C. bipinnatus) with yellow or red disks and showy ray flowers XxSabrinaxX:Your argument is like saying that the Computer CPU is not a good synonym for the Brain! I have not even attempted to prove Gods existence. That is impossible! What I have done is this: 1. All I have shown with my arguments is that "an intelligent SOURCE" of the universe seem to exist. 2. You can give this SOURCE any name you like (a name is just a NOUN). I call the SOURCE God, because it fits the description of God. 3. None here had been able to show the fallacy of my postulates nor advance a counter argument against my thrust of view. 4. If by postulates and reasoning I presented my points, it would take far more than mere assertions to present a different position (this seem to be your position) on this thread. Let's forget the name (God: as a noun) and ask the logical/Scientific questions: 1. Is there a real possibility of a non-material SOURCE for the universe? 2. If there is a source/sources, would it be a mere Force/Substance or a Personality? My arguments has been to help you Atheists reason out the answers to these two questions using readily available Scientific information. 1 Like
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Re: Who Created God? by shadeyinka(m): 4:53pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
Martinez39:I don't believe just everything unless it's either a product of my experience, logics or Scientific deductions. For both, I have neither their experience nor logical justification nor deductions based on Science to believe. As per the same of God, I have my experiences (subjective), it seems logical (systems need a designer) and I have used Science (the combination of computer programming, electronics and laws of physics) to justify by belief in God. I don't believe in Bigfoot either and unicorns. Finally, let me give you a thought question. Suppose all humans live in a 1D world, would we be able comprehend how life is in a 2 D world? If we can't, would this be sufficient to conclude that a 2D world cannot exist? 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Who Created God? by shadeyinka(m): 5:08pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
TheArranger:1. The non-christian sticky thread is not a section but a persistent thread. This mean a single thread that persists irrespective of time or ranking of activities 2. Non-christian imply anyone with a different religious beliefs other than Christianity or Islam can chat. Buddhist, ATR, Religious cults etc However, Atheists have been found to populate every religious section and thread. |
Re: Who Created God? by shadeyinka(m): 5:15pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
budaatum:No one can Empirically prove the Source. For Even the Physical laws of nature breaks down at the big bang. By the current rules of science, Change normally is initiated by either an unstable equilibrium or an external force. For those who see science as a final authority, it is good to show how the current science lead to the possibility of the SOURCE! 1 Like |
Re: Who Created God? by budaatum: 5:46pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
shadeyinka:Their is one problem, which is that both sides claim their own 'science' (way of seeing and looking at things) is an authority. "in the beginning" was written by humans who existed when it was written, and either way you look at it long before they came into existence. They used their senses to observe what they saw and wrote about it according to their understanding at the time. We are not in the beginning no more but we too write our own big bang as an understanding of what we perceive now with our senses. And the mere fact we use telescopes is an indication of how far we've come. The problem is "believing". It blinds the understanding and the learning acquired through understanding the supreme powers of the Word. Believers are like those who have heard there is treasure in a field but ask another to have faith and purchase it so they can share the reward with them. Oh, poor people of this world. |
Re: Who Created God? by JhayJoe: 5:54pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
shadeyinka:For Evolution we have fossils, but the rest you can watch "UFO'S Unknown Evidence" on Discovery Channel/Family or you can browse about Area 51.The evidence is over welhming. Just check online. |
Re: Who Created God? by Ihedinobi3: 6:13pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
tintingz:Hello. Self-existence is the property of a thing to exist without cause and to be absolutely invulnerable to external influence. So, proof of the possession of this quality would be in its absolute lack of change, that is, if it never changes either to improve in its intrinsic quality or to deteriorate, then it is self-existent. That is why self-existence is the true definition of a true God. How do we determine if anything self-exists? By checking to see if it experiences change in quality. The universe changes. Energy is part of the universe, so it is not a separate contender. The universe is the full set of all material (including invisible spiritual) things, quantities, and phenomena that exist. Given that this whole is in an observable state of deterioration - and limited revitalization - over time, it is clear that it does not self-exist. It must therefore be created. The God of the Bible is not available for any kind of experimenting, but we do know the claims that the Bible makes about Him. Even if we doubt the claims to be true, they are absolutely consistent with self-existence. The question is whether we believe what the Bible says or whether we do not. That is a free will choice. Has the God of the Bible offered any proof at all of the Truth of His Claim to be the true God? Yes, in fact, He has. The entire universe around us with all of its creatures, energies, and phenomena is the proof that He offers. The very nature of the universe makes it clear that it had a Maker. The way it functions points to the Character of that Maker, so that we have some idea what kind of Person He is. As long as we live in this physical body, however, the proof that God offers in creation all around us is deniable. We are not forced to accept it any more than we are forced to believe the Bible. It is up to us to decide what to believe on the basis of our preferred attitude to God. |
Re: Who Created God? by shadeyinka(m): 6:18pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
JhayJoe:The bolded just betrayed the fact that you do not understand evolution. Evolution is a theory and it has neither been verified no proven in any way but inferences could be made to support it. You also mentioned Big Bang and Aliens. None of us was around when big bang occured billion years ago. The only observation that precipitated the BB theory is that the universe seem to be expanding from a source at a certain speed. Projecting backwards suggest that it must have been from a point source. Aliens? Many Atheists will laugh you to scorn of you say you believe in aliens for none has been verified Scientifically. I believe in there is likely possiblity of aliens but not as in science fiction. A law is an established Scientific fact. A theory is an attempt to explain Physical realities using models. Theories could be right or wrong and are always subject to fine-tuning until it completely models reality. There are many things that have no Physical evidence yet real. Stating otherwise is like concluding that we know EVERYTHING there is to know about the Universe Faith isn't a Blind Believe but a TRUST in the integrity of a personality |
Re: Who Created God? by Martinez39(m): 6:31pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
shadeyinka:See, I asked for direct answers. I didn't ask you about your belief in god. Now, based on this answer we can say that : 1) You don't believe in them because they have no basis in reality or logical basis, yes or no? |
Re: Who Created God? by TheArranger(m): 6:34pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
shadeyinka:At the end of the day, there is a seperate place set out to accomodate atheists, christians, muslims etc. The definitions of section and thread are uncalled for. Atheists' occupation of multiple areas of the forum is only proof that atheism is not a belief or religion as most would like to believe. Don't really understand why you deemed it fit to bring that up. This is a petty argument anyway so let's drop it. |
Re: Who Created God? by budaatum: 6:35pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
shadeyinka:See. Trust according to the person having the faith in the integrity of an entity. Oftentimes it is "blind believe". The lazy do not work hard like the diligent. But that's where personal integrity comes in. Everyone knows how much or how little they have considered in the evidence before arriving at a belief. |
Re: Who Created God? by shadeyinka(m): 7:13pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
budaatum:I understand you very well. Each one can only really speak truly from his/her experiences with respect to the Divine. Science isn't necessarily nor expedient for finding God (intact not a requirement). We know God by grace and the fact that we choose to know the Truth and stand by it wherever it leads us. I only have problems with those who scorn believers in God as Intellectually weak and inferior. I agree, most Christians aren't "readers" and seekers of knowledge but it doesn't mean that Atheists are intellectually superior. I usually don't quarrel with gnostic Atheists. It could simply be their choice or the fact that science is their god. I have issues with the agnostics who claim not to know yet argue like they know everything to be known. An agnostics should at best be a seeker of the truth. 2 Likes |
Re: Who Created God? by hopefulLandlord: 7:24pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
In the beginning, man created Yahweh and in the image of man created he him 2 Likes |
Re: Who Created God? by shadeyinka(m): 7:40pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
budaatum:Yes, Faith is trust in the integrity of a personality producing an appropriate response. Unfortunately, faith isn't always easy especially when the reality of the storm is staring at us in HD 3D. Also because having faith doesn't guarantee an immediate comfortable result. The result of faith is often well after our existence here on earth. Our faith is in categories: great faith, little faith, waivering faith,... Faith is a Spiritual currency: every Christian has faith (currency) but can our reserve purchase that which we urgently desire? e.g. I may have N5600 in my purse, but can I purchase that 126" OLED flat screen TV that I want? Or, can I bail myself from the courts with N2100 in my pocket? Such is faith. |
Re: Who Created God? by shadeyinka(m): 7:46pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
TheArranger:I think you raised the point in defence of Atheism. Atheists are not as sweet as you think on Nairaland. You need to experience some of them to understand. But I've also met great and friendly Atheist. But no one can prove God. It's impossible. You can only know Him. |
Re: Who Created God? by shadeyinka(m): 7:48pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
Martinez39:I have answered your question even beyond this. You shouldn't put your own words into my mouth. I also asked you a question: no response? |
Re: Who Created God? by malvisguy212: 8:05pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
hopefulLandlord:and the atheists Will want to rewrite Genesis 1:1 like this " in the beginning IT JUST HAPPENED. how did it happened ? by chance ? How can blind chance result in intelligence? I admire this Faith, this Faith is Even stronger than the Christian Faith. |
Re: Who Created God? by tintingz(m): 9:32pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
Ihedinobi3: So in your argument, the proof of a self-existing God is from the Bible? Please provide an empirical evidence of a self-existing entity. We have not fully understood the universe, how did you conclude it must be created? According to law of conservation, energy cannot be created nor destroyed. And God don't change? |
Re: Who Created God? by jamesid29(m): 10:17pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
tintingz:That's the thing, we actually do know this particular universe we inhabit does have a creation event ,thus was created. |
Re: Who Created God? by tintingz(m): 10:53pm On Oct 02, 2019 |
jamesid29:What creation event? |
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